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JonathanVonErich

The murder of Cheri Jo Bates

207 posts in this topic

I know this is slightly off-topic but it just crossed my mind and I want to post it before I forget.

Have you ever noticed that the majority of the most infamous and widely reported cases of missing-persons and unsolved murders in Western society have victims who have very distinct things in common?

They are young.

They are female.

They are white.

They are middle-class or rich.

I wonder why? Hmmm? lol

not all..........don't forget...nieve,vulnurable and needy.......

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In the case of Cheri Jo I still think she knew her killer(s), or at least I'm sure the killer knew Cheri Jo, i'm sure her murder was not a case of "being at the wrong place, at the wrong time".

And Yesterday I Received an email by a Zodiac investigator where he told me that nothing special was planned on the 44 "anniversary" of Cheri Jo's murder, last October 30. I'm guessing the remaining family member of Cheri Jo just want to forget about the whole thing, even if i'm sure all of them had thoughts about Cheri.

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eeeeekkkk!!!!!

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eeeeekkkk!!!!!

Um...What !?

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There was some discussion of Cheri Jo Bates father and what happened to him.

Here is a biography of Joseph C Bates.

I believe he may still be alive or at least still was a couple of years ago. I think he is or was residing in Northern California.

Thought it was interesting ... FWIW.

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There was some discussion of Cheri Jo Bates father and what happened to him.

Here is a biography of Joseph C Bates.

I believe he may still be alive or at least still was a couple of years ago. I think he is or was residing in Northern California.

Thought it was interesting ... FWIW.

Thanks for the link. :)

I actually want to start another tread about this case, this thread went in too many directions and we stepped over the line with this "psychic" investigation. I am very skeptical of psychic abilities of any kind and I prefer to work with facts and evidences, this thread is a freaking mess. I'll start a new one for the 45 anniversary of the murder, in october.

Edited by JonathanVonErich

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The murder of Cheri Bates, has always bothered me. I'm new here, but some friends and I were headed to Calif when the Zodiac items began being reported, and changed our minds because we were going to the very areas he was operating.

Cheri, is close to my age. She reminds me of a girl I knew, and ironically 7 friends were all killed in a car accident on Oct 1964. So, I guess it all ties in with me, and I thought her case should have been solved. I also went to school, and got degrees in Criminology/Deviant behavior studies, sociology, and two in psychology. I then ended up working in the 'system', an ironically ... worked violent cases, murder and was good at catching or finding people that no-one could seem to find. I dealt with a lot of murderers, and psychopaths. Got to know a bit about them.

Soo.. in cases I've seen, this one connects with me and would like to see it come to some conclusion and justice of some sort for Cheri. I just thought you all deserved to know my interest and introduce who I am.

Now... on Zodiackiller.com, I know a couple of years back I read some items on their forum, and they had identified Patrica Hautz. So you know, many HS yearbooks are on-line, and there was a picture of her in the yearbook. It hit me reading your posts, then it's logical ... so would Stephanies and the others being discussed.

The thing that caught me about Patrica Hautz was, she said she grew up with a boy and knew him well (same neighborhood) who got very mad at her, and threatened her that she better watch it ... or she could end up like Cheri, and suggested he had something to do with it. That, was the reason she mentioned in her letter, "maybe knowing something about the boy that did it" would be interesting (in understanding the murder). She seemed convinced, he did do it. I know that his Identification has to be known by some of the people out there, it's just getting them to share that info.

Another point ; I did not know until reading your past posts, that Barnett was called by her while at the basketball game and left. When you mentioned this, my immediate thought was..... had he disabled her car, and she knew he knew VW's and might help her get it running, thus the reason for calling him ?? And he knew she would call him for help ? Had he worked on her car for her in the past ?

Third, I understood his best friend also flunked the polygraph... was sure I saw that in one piece of info. It made me of Barnett's best friend, and whether "HE" was the one who did it .. since his buddie was no longer dating her, and tried to get her to go out with him ? That wouldn't be anything new. And did they flunk the polygraph because they knew more, but Police were asking the wrong questions to the wrong person ? (have some minor experience related to polygraphs). Did Barnett's best friend do it, and then told Barnett what happened, and Barnett went with him to look for the watch ? Then, the friend tells the story that Barnett told him he had "snuffed Cheri", to get them looking at someone other than himself ? Barnett, may have not wanted to give his buddy up to the Police.

I've always found it interesting that Barnett has lived and worked outside the US, since .... makes me wonder where his best friend is now.

Edited by Eagleks

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its a very sad moment for me about the death of the Cherie's death so i think that due to the car accident he lost his life....

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The murder of Cheri Bates, has always bothered me. I'm new here, but some friends and I were headed to Calif when the Zodiac items began being reported, and changed our minds because we were going to the very areas he was operating.

Cheri, is close to my age. She reminds me of a girl I knew, and ironically 7 friends were all killed in a car accident on Oct 1964. So, I guess it all ties in with me, and I thought her case should have been solved. I also went to school, and got degrees in Criminology/Deviant behavior studies, sociology, and two in psychology. I then ended up working in the 'system', an ironically ... worked violent cases, murder and was good at catching or finding people that no-one could seem to find. I dealt with a lot of murderers, and psychopaths. Got to know a bit about them.

Soo.. in cases I've seen, this one connects with me and would like to see it come to some conclusion and justice of some sort for Cheri. I just thought you all deserved to know my interest and introduce who I am.

Now... on Zodiackiller.com, I know a couple of years back I read some items on their forum, and they had identified Patrica Hautz. So you know, many HS yearbooks are on-line, and there was a picture of her in the yearbook. It hit me reading your posts, then it's logical ... so would Stephanies and the others being discussed.

The thing that caught me about Patrica Hautz was, she said she grew up with a boy and knew him well (same neighborhood) who got very mad at her, and threatened her that she better watch it ... or she could end up like Cheri, and suggested he had something to do with it. That, was the reason she mentioned in her letter, "maybe knowing something about the boy that did it" would be interesting (in understanding the murder). She seemed convinced, he did do it. I know that his Identification has to be known by some of the people out there, it's just getting them to share that info.

Another point ; I did not know until reading your past posts, that Barnett was called by her while at the basketball game and left. When you mentioned this, my immediate thought was..... had he disabled her car, and she knew he knew VW's and might help her get it running, thus the reason for calling him ?? And he knew she would call him for help ? Had he worked on her car for her in the past ?

Third, I understood his best friend also flunked the polygraph... was sure I saw that in one piece of info. It made me of Barnett's best friend, and whether "HE" was the one who did it .. since his buddie was no longer dating her, and tried to get her to go out with him ? That wouldn't be anything new. And did they flunk the polygraph because they knew more, but Police were asking the wrong questions to the wrong person ? (have some minor experience related to polygraphs). Did Barnett's best friend do it, and then told Barnett what happened, and Barnett went with him to look for the watch ? Then, the friend tells the story that Barnett told him he had "snuffed Cheri", to get them looking at someone other than himself ? Barnett, may have not wanted to give his buddy up to the Police.

I've always found it interesting that Barnett has lived and worked outside the US, since .... makes me wonder where his best friend is now.

Sorry for this late reply, I was concentrating on my classes and decided not to login for the past 5 weeks. :)

Thanks for sharing, glad to see I'm not the only one caring about this fascinating, intriguing and very important case. I'm working on getting my degree in Criminology, very happy to have the chance to talk to somebody in the field, congrats for making it. :tu:

This case is the reason why I'm interested in True Crimes/Criminology. I discovered this case back in 2000, I was 15 years old and since then this case means a lot to me and I feel like I need to share this case with just about anybody I know (friends, family, fellow students, coworkers, etc.).

About Patricia Hautz: Thanks for sharing, I shared the info in another thread and I don't know if I shared the info about her letter in this thread. We know that Hautz wrote the letter, but now it seems logical to think that Hautz never knew the identity of the killer, that it was nothing more than a letter from a young student who asked the eternal questions: "What sort of person could kill and what would drive that person to do so?" Credible researcher Michael Butterfield found Hautz back in 2010, and he is now convinced that she didn't know the identity of the killer and that she wasn't talking about a particular individual. Here's the article about Butterfield's discovery: http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/blog/riverside-and-the-murder-of-cheri-jo-bates/

Then again some researchers are still debating whether or not miss Hautz really know the identity of the killer, and if she simply tried to avoid the controversy surrounding the letter. Possible, but I feel like she know nothing more than we do.

"Barnett" is still the best suspect in the case. Lot of interesting facts are linking "Barnett" to this case. http://www.zodiackiller.com/BatesDNA.html

Lot of very interesting links between him and the murder, but what's bothering me is that DNA testing revealed that the hair found on Cheri Jo's body were not "Barnett"'s. Maybe somebody helped him and the hair belonged to the accomplice, it's possible, but right now we don't have something solid against him, just a series of very interesting circumstancial evidences.

You are right about him living in another Country. Last we know he was living in Guam, and interestingly enough the wife of one of his former classmates, who was visiting the country years ago, was brutally murdered while she was riding her bike alone one night. I don't have much detail right now, but I'm trying to find more.

Is "Barnett" the man who killed Cheri Jo ?? There's a very good possibility that he is, however we need more solid evidences to be sure. :yes:

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It would be interesting to know what the police know. Apparently, Barnett is not the killer since the DNA and the jailhouse confession by one of his friends can be discounted. It appears that Barnett is just convienent way for the police to keep the real suspect unaware of case against him. The police have her diary and as they insist there is no information that would lead them to a suspect. If that is true, why is the diary still not published? The answer is that the case is still open, but what could the non release possibly mean to the case unless there is in fact information about a suspect that could give this suspect information that he could use to change or modify his story, if the prosecutor would ever have enough evidence to persue prosecution. The speculation involving Zodiac would seem to be just that, speculation. The one good outcome is that Cheri would have probably been lost to history without the speculation. I think the key to this case lies in her friends. It has always been thought, that Cheri knew her assailant, but the fact that her keys were in the ignition and her books were on the car would seem to discount this conjecture. That is unless the killer, who she knew, put these items back in the car to make it look like she was abducted. That brings me back to the idea that the police in fact have a good suspect but lack evidence. So back to the question. Who were Cheri's close friends? I believe Stephanie and Darlene are mentioned somewhere in the literature. They would have information that they would possibly solve the case or at least lead the case to some sort of conclusion. The killer is undoubtedly in his 60's, if there is to be any resolution, more information is needed. Since the Patricia Hautz lead is apparently solved, the friends need to come forward with information, anything even the most innoculous information maybe of assistance. So who are the friends of Cheri?

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Thanks for sharing, Jeckyl, very interesting. :yes:

To my knowledge Barnett is still the most interesting suspect in the case, and authorities never officially ruled him out as a suspect. Am I convinced that Barnett killed Cheri Jo ?? Not at all, but I'm not ready to rule Barnett out, that's for sure. True, Barnett's DNA did not match what was recovered from Cheri Jo's hand, but I think he should still be considered a suspect in the case.

I've always asked myself if indeed the answer, the name of the killer is written in the diary. I've always felt that the reason why the diary was never published is because it must be full of important information about one or many suspects. I always had the feeling that Cheri Jo knew her killer and that the killer "staged" the crime scene ( put her books in her car, keys in her car ). I could be wrong of course, but I think she knew her killer and trusted him enough to follow him to his car. If she knew her killer then maybe his name is somewhere in her diary. Maybe.

I agree with you, if this case wouldn't have been linked to the Zodiac case then it would have been forgotten, sadly. I am convinced that Zodiac was not the killer of Cheri Jo, and in a way I wish that the case would no longer be associated with Zodiac, but without the link to the Zodiac case this important and fascinating would have been forgotten and that would have been another injustice to Cheri Jo and her family. I have researched this case since 2000, and since then I've shared the infos of this case to my friends, fellow students ( I study Criminology at Laval ), family members, just about anybody I know. I am probably one of the few guy in the Province of Quebec who cares about this case, and I really want to find the truth. This case means more to me than finding the truth in the Zodiac case, the murder of Cheri Jo is the first case that really caught my attention, and I want to solve it.

About her friends: We know that Cheri Jo had a friend named Stephanie, true, and a friend named Donna. An investigator told Tom Voigt that Barnett was dating Donna at the time of the murder. There's also a strong possibility that Cheri Jo and Donna spoke on the phone on the day of the murder. Sadly we don't have much information about these two women. I've tried numerous time to locate both Stephanie and Donna, but without a last name it's an impossible task. So there's Stephanie, Donna but I don't remember Cheri Jo having a friend named Darlene. You're not talking about Darlene Ferrin, right ?? Because they didn't knew each other.

For years I've tried to contact the brother of Cheri Jo, but sadly I was never able to talk to him or contact him. I live in Canada so it's difficult for me to interview somebody living in the United States, but I've reallly tried. I think Tom Voigt once told me that Cheri's brother just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. I can understand, it must be very difficult to speak about the murder of a sister. I don't think he could have shared information that might have been important to the case, but it would be very interesting to talk about Cheri Jo with him. The brother could ask the authorities for a copy of the diary, I think he should do it.

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Well, here is an interesting tidbit, could mean something or not. I am sure you are familiar with Sandy Betts. She has an interesting story and has mentioned a R. Hernendez. Now, I have heard that the killer follows posts on related sites. Could be speculation or paranoia, whatever the case there is a R. Hernandez living in Riverside who is a year younger than Cheri. Supposedly the person who follows posts goes by the screen name of '12th house', interestingly the RH lives on 12th street. RH is also the signature of the poem on the desk at RCC. I am assuming that RH is not Barnett but could possibly be the suspect that the police have in mind. I will look for him in the 966 yearbook and see if there can be any connection. BTW I was incorrect donna was the friend. i could be that we are complicating this case like some have done in the past. We all assume that these killers are masterminds but in reality make mistakes that are overlooked, look at BTK, he should have been caught years before he was. I think that Occams Razor is correct, we need to look closely and fight the urge to complicate the issues. Cheri's killer has been very lucky and probably thinks he will never be caught, I believe he is livng in the area and the only thing that will bring him to justice is a relentless pursuit of the evidence. That is why I think it is so important talk to her friends they must know something.

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By the way welcome to UM Jeckyl, it's always a pleasure to meet people who are interested in this case. :tu:

Yes, I know Sandy, back in 2002-2003 we wrote each other many emails, she's a very interesting lady. I am skeptical of some of the things she said over the years, but I think she's honest. I think the story about the killer "following posts on related sites" is based on nothing more than speculation and paranoia. Nothing more. We don't know the identity of the killer, yet we have to believe that he follows posts related to the case !? I don't believe it, or at least I need solid evidence to believe it, and there's no evidence that this is true. The Hernandez story is interesting, true, but it's clearly based on nothing more than speculation, paranoia and wishful thinking.

I don't think we are complicating this case, I think it's important to look at every possibilities. This case has been cold for more than 40 years, therefore it's important to look at every theories and to keep an open mind.

I never thought that the killer of Cheri Jo ( or any killer ) was a mastermind. Serial killers are mastermind only in their own mind. Whoever killed Cheri Jo had a plan, a well prepared plan in my opinion ( something he thought about for days, maybe weeks or months ), he knew what he was doing and was organized, but this doesn't make him a mastermind. After all, it seems like he left his DNA at the scene, right ?? ;)

I agree about the importance of talking to Cheri's friends, but like I said earlier it's an almost impossible task to do. We know nothing about them, or at least what we know is sketchy. We don't even know if they are still alive, and even if they are alive we don't know if they could help with the investigation. Because they were friends with Cheri doesn't mean that they know everything about her and that they can help with the case. If they knew something I'm sure they shared the info with the authorities back then. Still, I agree with you that it would be great to find them and to interview them, after all that's what I've tried to do years ago. But they're so very little information about both women that I doubt very seriously that we can find them. Sadly.

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Hello, I am obviously new to this board and posting on the internet about cold cases. However, I have long had a passion for researching cold cases on a strictly amateur level. I have very little to go on, other than what all of you have already seen, so I have little to nothing new to add to the conversation. But, I like the way you treat all posters in a respectful manner. Thank you for that, as it seems that belittling people is the name of the game on other internet boards.

I was especially interested in Puri's discussion of there being two people involved in Cheri Jo Bates's murder. I have come to believe that there were at least two people involved in the Zodiac killings. Not in the actual killings, mind you. But rather, one would kill. And one wrote letters. I have some other ideas along this line, but back to the topic of the thread.

I feel certain that Cheri Jo knew her killer(s). It does not seem far-fetched to think that a girl might be involved, as women can be viciously jealous. What bothers me about this case is that I heard that a handwriting expert matched the samples from this case to those of Zodiac. Do I have misinformation on this issue?

Thank you for keeping the search for justice in this case alive.

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I wonder if it's been reported how the car was disabled. I want to be sure that it was something determined to be deliberate.

If so, it's clearly apparent that the perp planned the crime, at least from about the time Cheri arrived at the library.

I wonder about the library employees and patrons because the perp seemed to somehow know that Cheri was there.

I think this type of crime (strangling and stabbing with no sexual assault/ robbery) is motivated by anger, and usually indicates a personal conflict, so it appears that the perp likely knew/knew about her.

The letter from Patricia Hautz is interesting. It seems to reflect frustration, and I think that that frustration could have existed for one of two reasons. 1) she was understandably frustrated at the lack of progress in the case, or 2) she was frustrated because she'd already offered what she considered valuable information to the police that appeared to her as disregarded.

I think it was more likely #1.

The part "Are we laying the blueprint for another killer?" doesn't sound like she's referring to any one specific person ("another" killer) but sounds most like there might have been something about the article she referenced that she didn't like.

(I haven't read the article she referenced, but I'd be helpful in putting her letter in proper perspective.)

Re: the DNA from the 2 or three hairs, unless those were secondary transfer from one of the responders present on the scene- which I highly doubt, then Barnett definitely should be ruled out.

There's no evidence of an accomplice (DNA from only one individual) and also, this doesn't appear to be the type of crime committed by more than one perp.

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I think Zodiac is a reasonable suspect. I wonder if they can get his DNA off the watch and compare it to the DNA from the Zodiac letters?

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I've read more about this case and have learned that the vehicle was disabled intentionally by a wire pulled from the distributor.

The presence of the watch at the crime scene is intriguing. The broken band shows a struggle, and I know there's other evidence suggesting that the perp had scratches, so the perp would certainly show those if he was soon questioned, correct?

Also, why would a perp wear a watch if he'd left his home planning to murder? I think the fact that he was wearing a watch could indicate that he didn't plan the murder too far in advance...that the opportunity presented itself after he was busy with a usual routine.

I've seen the connection made between this case and the Zodiac's, and I know Zodiac claimed responsibility for the murder.

I'm wondering when the letters in the Bates case were published.

The reason I wonder that is because I think it's possible that the Zodiac knew of this case and took his lead from it, and I want to rule that out.

I haven't studied the Zodiac case, but if he was relatively smart, I don't think he'd misspell those words. I think it could have been an attempt to "prove" that he was indeed the same perp...to mispell the same words and use the same phrases as were used in the Bates case. I don't know if he knew any more about the actual murder than anyone else who'd heard about it on the news, or read about it in the paper, although I don't know what was reported. I think it's possible that what he said could have been easily imagined using what info was reported, and surely, there was other info he could have offered.

I intend to look more into the possible connection between these cases, but so far, I'm doubtful.

The perp who killed Bates got away with it, and it was two years before Zodiac showed up, correct?

Edited by regi

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I've read through what I could find of what's considered the Zodiac letters, and I didn't see where responsibility was accepted for the Bates murder. I only saw recognition that the authorities were investigating a possible link.

I've read that the watch band showed the perp's wrist to be about 7" in diameter. Now, that doesn't sound to me like the perp who Michael Mageau described almost three years later.

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I have noticed that the person who did the Bates case (obvious in regard to THE CONFESSION letter as well, which was also a "poem", I noticed)

AND

the person who did the Zodiac case (obvious in regard to the letters as well)

was a "COPYCAT" killer.

Jack the Ripper

(Stated about victim of Jack the Ripper:

"Her throat was cut from ear to ear.")

(Stated about Cheri Jo Bates:

"Her throat was cut.

She was nearly decapitated.")

(Said to have had, "seven slashes" across the throat.)

Was found, near the "alley".

The letter-writer also tried to "talk like" Jack the Ripper, in THE CONFESSION letter (which was also a, poem)

broke/throat

(Police stated that the the killer did NOT break the knife in her.

So, I wondered, was he just lying, or was there ANOTHER reason why he stated that.)

I then noticed that, the letter-writer tried to "talk like" Jack the Ripper in that letter.

(Was using that case as a "Guidebook".)

I then noticed, the same thing was done in the Zodiac case, as well.

Let me show you an example, of how this "COPYCAT" game works:

(I was already very family with the Jack the Ripper case, so after I realized that he was a "COPYCAT",

more and more "keywords"/"keyword phrases" from the Jack the Ripper case then started popping out),

(Stated in the Jack the Ripper case):

"a bloody piece of apron

belonging to (victim's name)

was found shortly after"

(Stated about the Zodiac case that occurred in San Francisco):

"a bloody piece of shirtTAIL (that is as close as it gets to apron, unless he could have found a woman who was wearing an apron at the time. Hard to do)

belonging to (Paul Stine)

was sent in shortly after"

`````

(Stated in Jack the Ripper case):

"Police believe he may have wiped

his knife off with it."

(Stated in Zodiac case that occurred in San Francisco)

"Police believe he may have wiped

his fingerprints off the cab."

I noticed that in both cases, alot of references were also made to:

JFK (including, what was stated in Bio of JFK)/JFK Assassination case.

"After JFK was killed, many people stated that he

went to the slaughter like a lamb."

(After Cheri Jo Bates was killed)

Letter-writer stated:

[Miss Bates] "went to the slaughter like a lamb."

(The letter-writer used the word "SHE" a lot of times in that letter.

That lead me to believe that, it was possibly also used as a double-meaning.

"Shepherd and the Lamb".)

Later, Cecilia SHEPARD

(attended the university in Riverside)

was killed.

"JFK was the first Boy Scout to become President."

(In the newspaper article that came out, after the murder of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen):

"David Faraday had recently received the

BOY SCOUT

GOD & COUNTRY award.

(He was "shot in the head")

It may have been a sniper."

"After JFK was killed, the Canadian government named a mountain after him.

Mt. Kennedy"

"His brother, Robert F. Kennedy" (along with some other men, climbed to the summit)

was the first to reach the summit, where he placed a banner of arms."

(Coat of Arms)

```````````

(Now this is on a completely different subject, because I do not think Gareth Penn is the Zodiac.)

What I do want to know, however, is why one of his so-called articles (on ecphorizer.com) is:

"Where Were You"

(when JFK was killed)

"JFK was born in Brookline, Massachusetts."

(his brother Robert was too)

"JFK went to Harvard."

(and his father went to Harvard.)

"It is believed that the Kennedys were descended from, the O'Kennedy (s)

I want to know why Gareth Penn found (a 'victim' in Brookline, Massachusetts), and "tried to say" that: He thought he was the Zodiac.

Gareth Penn:

"I found him in a Harvard yearbook.

He lives in Brookline, Massachusetts."

```````

That is real interesting, because I think that is "possibly" how the Zodiac found HIS victims.

YEARBOOKs

(back to BIO of JFK)

...."In yearbook, it stated, "Most Likely to Succeed"

````````

I believe this killer possibly also included the commonly-stated "Conspiracy Theory" (that you see when reading about the two cases as well):

"Jack the Ripper may have been a Mason."

"JFK may have been killed by Masons,

and some police."

(Some police are also a Mason.)

Zodiac case, San Francisco:

"Mason"

(st)

"Washington"

(st)

The killer was doing the "keywords" from those two cases.

(The newspapers were then putting those "keywords", into the newspaper.

Whether or not, they realized, what they were doing/saying.)

"Oswald bought two guns through mail order."

(Zodiac letter):

bought [my] killing tools through mail order,

before the ban went into effect

(I finally figured out what that was a reference to:

"Gun Control Act of 1968"

I then read it.

"It was put into effect by Lyndon B. Johnson

after the assassination of John F. Kennedy",

"and Martin Luther King,"

````````

(Patricia Hautz letter, sent to the Editor at Riverside newspaper):

(It was written after they did a later newspaper article about the victim Cheri Jo Bates)

How about doing a story about the life of the boy who killed her.

(IMPOSSIBLE, of course, because noone knew/knows who killed her.)

"If people were to read

about the life of a boy

(read

BIO)

(Since I already knew that this person was a COPYCAT of Jack the Ripper/Jack the Ripper case,

JFK/JFK Assassination case - and, since noone knows who Jack the Ripper was, so you can't READ the BIO about him), I believe this possibly meant to:

READ

BIO

of "the boy" (John F. Kennedy)

So....I did.

...."He was called Jack ever since he was a little boy."

The person then stated in that letter:

"turned killer"

[Jack]

"turned killer"

Jack

the Ripper

````````

The outfit that was worn in the case that occurred near Napa (at Lake Berryessa),

was possibly this person's (made) "secret society" outfit (costume)

"I have to stab you people."

(because I'm playing the part of the crazy cop-Mason)

(stated in the, "Conspiracy Theory")

TWO WAYS, this guy was going to kill:

KNIFE (Jack the Ripper case/Jack the Ripper. Attention on the female)

GUN (JFK Assassination case/Oswald. The "males", will be "shot in the head")

````````

"Jack the Ripper sent letters and poems.

Jack the Ripper sent ciphers.

Jack the Ripper sent clues to his identity."

(Well, that is what is "said", but if there were in clues, they would most likely be: "fake clues")

First Zodiac "letter":

"cipher"

"In this cipher

is my identity."

This guy was a "COPYCAT" killer.

Jack the Ripper letters included:

"ha ha"

Zodiac letters included:

"ha ha"

````````````

Zodiac cipher (I think it was the 340 cipher, would have to look again to be sure)

There are three, circled 8s

888

(Year of Jack the Ripper case)

After seeing that this killer was a "COPYCAT" killer, noticing what he was COPYCATTING,

in then looking over the JFK Assassination case again (and reading the BIO),

all done to refresh my memory,

I came across the info. about the Warren Commission Report.

I saw it stated that, this report was "888" pages long.

````````

Zodiac letter:

"How much money do you have on my head now?"

(This was 'possibly' a reference to)

Kennedy half-dollar

(So I then looked to see when the Kennedy half-dollar was first made, because I had no idea.

1964)

Zodiac letter:

"I want the people of San Fran bay to wear some buttons."

(This was 'possibly' a reference to: "campaign" buttons)

(He quoted lines from The Mikado)

In researching about The Mikado, I saw this stated:

"Politicians commonly quote the Mikado, rewording the "Little List" and the "Punishments"

in regard to people who they do not like."

``````

[Opera by Gilbert & Sullivan, first done in LONDON.

The "First London revival" was

July (something, would have to look again) 1888

- Sept. 27, 1888]

```````

(Zodiac was possibly NOT a "politician",

but it could be possible that, maybe he had a "political" OPINION about things.)

````````

"I saw and think the Exorcist

is the best saterical comidy that I have seen."

(By the way, the "i" s were dotted with circles,

same as the envelope of THE CONFESSION letter that was postmarked Riverside.)

Recently, I did handwriting comparisons of my own.

(Because of the way that the (small) "f" s were made, I decided to compare that letter - and that letter alone. And to keep from being distracted, of trying to look at ALL of the letters.)

(THE CONFESSION letter was typewritten, so I could not use it for comparison.)

(The "Bates had to die, there will be more" was hand-printed,

but there was no "f" in the statement.)

I used (clipped) the "f" from the hand-printed poem that was found on the "underside" of the school desk at Riverside City College library.

[by the way, surely the person who wrote that was not lying on their back on the floor of the library, when they wrote it.)

It was stated to have been found "by a janitor, in the storage closet."

It seems to me that, the desk was already turned over, when that was THEN written on the "underside" of that desk.]

Interestingly, I found the same "f" s,

in the Zodiac letters.

(Most of his "f" s have a little tail at the end of them.

In regard to the slash mark across the middle of the "f",

the left side is usually higher, the right side lower,

the left side is usually shorter, the right side is usually longer.)

Besides having a curved-top to the "f" s,

there was another pattern throughout the letters (and was seen within the SAME letter):

The top of the "f" was a straight-line top.

[i will not be posting it here, but on my yahoo group site, BTK Strangler and Other Serial Killers,

I am going to post the "f" s comparisons, in a word document file. (in the "Zodiac" folder)

For the comparison, I did not use the Capital Fs.

(The small "f" s, is what is interesting. I compared only those.)

The reason I decided to do this comparison was:

I had already noticed the same "f" s, in the letters.

(While reading the letters.)

But I wanted to "document" it,

and also wanted to see just how many "f" s there were for comparison, etc.

There were ALOT.

However, those same two patterns

(The two "f" s that he used), are seen over and over and over again.

(i.e.: Alot of "f" s. However, ONLY, the same two patterns.

I only noticed, 'two' main patterns - and even then, they were all similar.

For example, one might have a curved-top and one a straight-line top - in the SAME LETTER,

however, they BOTH still had, the tail, at the end of them both.)

Edited by billiemichele

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THE CONFESSION ("letter and poem")

Maybe she will be

the beautiful blond that babysits

near the little store

and walks down the dark alley

each evening about seven.

``````````````

("Jack the Ripper wrote letters and poems.")

The "COPYCAT" er had to learn 'how' to write a poem.

````````````

"beautiful blond babysits"

I recognized this as being a "technique" in poem-writing, but I did not know what it was called.

So, I did some poem-writing research (Google search, in regard to poem-writing, starting each word with the same letter.)

I found out what this is called.

......Alliteration

Another technique that you might be familiar with is alliteration.

This procedure is used by starting three or more words with the same sound.

An example of this would be 'The crazy crackling crops.'

How to Use Techniques and Styles in Poems

The three words don't have to have the exact same beginning to have this effect. Alliteration is a great tool to use for descriptions along with raising the readers attention about a specific subject--great for dark and horror writings.

```````````````````

(In regard to a "possible" suspect-type)

The killer was, obviously, interested in "criminal cases" (well-known, front-page type)

(He was a "COPYCAT" er.)

I also noticed something else as well, in regard to the letter written by Zodiac,

[The one he sent after,

he sent the first letter (to three newspapers), and then one of them (San Francisco Examiner, I think it was) stated in an article:

(Chief of) Vallejo P.D. says they need more information, before they will believe that the letter was written by the actual killer.]

It was "written like", a police detective's "crime-scene investigation report".

(I had noticed the same thing, when I researched the BTK Strangler case, before he was then caught - I started researching that case in March of 2004.)

Newspaper articles at the time, however, did state:

"He uses police lingo in his letters.

Maybe he has taken Criminal Justice classes."

[> He WAS taking them, at the TIME, that statement was made.

He started taking them, the same month (year), that the first case occurred.

He then sent in a letter, and he put a title at the top of the page:

OTERO CASE

He then, wrote it out like, a police detective's crime-scene investigation report.]

I see the SAME type of thing, in the Zodiac case (which I first started researching, after BTK got himself caught.) ]

`````````

(In regard to the Zodiac case)

Survivor, Mike Mageau:

"I thought he was a cop.

We thought he was a cop.

We started getting our driver's licenses out."

He, "shined a large light" in their faces.

(Then, stated in a later article):

"Police (Vallejo P.D.) said" the guy "did police-type car maneuvers

like

those done by highway patrolmen."

[ALL police do, police-type car maneuvers, don't they.

Also, years ago, I have been pulled over by a city cop for speeding.

And, years ago, I have been pulled over by a highway patrolmen.

I saw no difference, in the "technique" that was used.

So I am curious to know, why Vallejo P.D. added,

like

those done by highway patrolmen.

What is the difference ???)

Also, you have to look at the "individual" driver, as well.

For example: Some cops who work at a Sheriff's department in a small rural area,

drive crazy. (are known to, go into a ditch; go off the road into the trees, on side of road, etc.)

Anyway...]

Zodiac also used police-lingo in his letters.

"routine robbery"

("routine", robbery?

Someone who is "not" a cop, usually states just, robbery.

I am not implying that this was a cop or that I believe that he was.

He does, however, seem mighty interested in it.)

"fingerprints"

"clues

"disguise"

`````````

My question is: Could this person have possibly been:

a "Criminal Justice student" ?

````````

(Oh, and don't forget the pretty recent case of Stephen Griffiths in London.

"Criminal Justice student"

He killed "prostitutes"

(with a crossbow),

then dismembered the bodies and tossed the remains into the river.

(After his arrest)

At least one of the neighbors told police that,

this guy had been walking around telling the neighbors that:

"I am doing a Phd in Jack the Ripper"

I find that very interesting, because in

[....] "the Zodiac"

case, from what I have been seeing,

he was, too.

(At the top of my list:

It could be possible that this person may have been a "Criminal Justice student")

(If so,

he was possibly going for a Bachelor's degree.) (??)

("Administration of Justice")

"Criminal Justice"

(Or in cases such as Dennis Rader and Stephen Griffiths):

"Criminal" Justice

Edited by billiemichele

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FBI profilers have stated that:

Many times, serial killers are interested in law enforcement.

`````````````````````````

Also, some of their "ruses" that they use, are: pretending to be, a cop.

```````````````

Some serial killers will try to find a job in which, they get to wear a uniform.

(and of course, get to tell people what to do.)

``````````````

Some serial killers have been a cop, previously.

(An example is: oh, I cannot remember his name offhand at the moment,

but he was a Louisiana serial killer.

It was stated that: He used to work at the Sheriff's dept.)

``````````

Some killers, were a cop when they killed.

(Example: I cannot remember his name, but he is currently still in prison.

A young girl had left her home to walk to the store.

This cop saw her. He was the last known person to have seen her.

I haven't read about the case for quite some time, so I do not remember all of the evidence of this case.

Her body was found dumped. (rural area, trash stated to have been at the place. "beer bottles", etc.)

````````````

[As a note: When a perp is caught, after one time, there is no way of knowing whether or not that person may have later BEEN, a serial killer - had he not been caught.]

````````````

In regard to the Zodiac case, "had" he been a cop, it could be possible that he was "older" than the young girls who were killed. The reason being: Alot of cops seem to like "young girls".

(Although most of them, if they have any sense at all, try to avoid the "jail bait".)

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In regard to the watch that was found, at the location where the body of Cheri Jo Bates was found,

keep in mind that: It could have possibly been a "fake clue".

(It could be possible that: It may not have even been running, when it was "put" there.)

When it was found, "it was not running".

Keep in mind that: There is not actually any proof that, the killer was "wearing" that watch,

before it was left there.

(And, just because the watch "fit a wrist of 7" in diameter",

does not necessarily mean that: This was the measurement of the wrist of the killer.)

```````````

(A "pair of gloves" was found in the cab of cab-driver Paul Stine, in SF case.

Wasn't it stated that they were a size 7.

And it was stated that: This was a very small size.)

Was it a "fake clue"?

("If" the killer left them there,

why would a killer leave "evidence" like that.)

And surely, had the killer been "wearing" that Timex watch, at the Riverside crime scene,

seeing as people get used to wearing a watch (for those who do), you usually know right away, when it is no longer on your wrist.

(Why didn't he get the watch, before he left.)

````````

One question that I have is:

What "light" was in the area, where the body of Cheri Jo Bates was found at.

(Supposedly, she was killed at this same area as well.)

(You notice that the article that shows the light that they installed, stated that it was not installed until AFTER this case occurred.)

She was by, a "darkened" alley.

(Unless the moon lit it up enough to see at night, how did the killer even see what he was doing

- if she was killed at this area, at night time.)

````````

Also, in the newspaper article that came out that the day of Oct. 31 (same day, that her body was stated to have been found at 6:00 a.m. in the morning), it shows on one page, a man and woman talking to a police officer,

and the caption underneath the picture states that these two Riverside college library employees told this police officer that,

this school library annex (by where she was found dead at), was CLOSED that day. ("Sunday", the night before.)

I did a Google map, and it shows that the location of the Riverside City College (that is where the MAIN library was at) was:

4800 Magnolia.

It shows in the autopsy report of Cheri Jo Bates

(which is posted at: http://thezodiacmansonconnection.com

click on: "Autopsy Files")

, that the location her body was found at was:

3680 Terracina

(Magnolia and Terracina streets intersect each other)

The distance between the two locations is stated on Google map to be

(driving distance/driving time):

"0.4 miles, 1 min"

`````````

They are not that far apart.

But what I want to know is:

It seems that some people "think" that the "school library annex" by which the body of Cheri Jo Bates was found at, (stated to have been killed there as well)

was OPEN on this day (which was a "Sunday", day she disappeared. Body found the next morning, about 6:00 a.m.),

that THIS was the library, that she had been at.

According to the statements in that newspaper article, this place was CLOSED.

(So my question is: How did her car/and her, end up HERE.)

(And with her being a student at the college, it seems that she would have known that, this school library annext was CLOSED on that day, and she possibly never even went to the annex. She may have only used the MAIN library, at the college.)

And if she went to the MAIN library on this day, doesn't it seem that she would have parked at:

the MAIN library (one that was open) at the college.

Why would "she" park her car, here.

(near the library annex, that wasn't even open that day.

A place that was going to be dark at night, and had alot of vacant houses by it.)

(There were "greasy prints" found on the INSIDE of her car.

Did the killer drive her car to this location?)

it seems that something is possibly being missed here.

If she had been at the OPEN library, which was the MAIN library at the college,

if THAT had been where the wire was taken off the distributor,

she could not have driven her car, to HERE.

If it was taken off, here, where her car was found at

- why would "she" have been, here.

(to begin with)

This does not look like a place that SHE would have gone to.

It looks like a place that the killer put her car/and her at.

("dark alley", vacant houses around.

CLOSED, school library annex.)

(And by the way, you are talking about two different libraries here,

that belonged to Riverside City College.

It seems that this person knew his away around, the campus area.)

(According to the note left at the home, to her father:

Dad, gone to the library.)

The problem here is:

One was OPEN. (Main library, at the college.)

Her car/and her dead body, were found at the OTHER one.

- Also owned by, the college.

The one that was CLOSED.

CLOSED, that day. ("Sunday)

darkened alley,

vacant houses around it.

How did her car/and her, end up here.

(And it surely seems that, she would have parked by the MAIN library,

had she gone to the OPEN library and checked out library books from there.)

I see no reason why SHE would have put her car/and herself, at this location.

(The school library annex was CLOSED on that day.)

(And, upon leaving the MAIN library at the college, I highly doubt she would have driven through this "alley" to head to her home, either.)

CLOSED, that day. ("Sunday")

darkened alley.

vacant houses around it.

(There was no benefit to HER, in regard to this.)

The only benefit would have been to, the killer, in this case.

HE, possibly put her car/and her, HERE,

in some way.

How did he do that.

(Could it be possible that, he was in her car when she left the main library at the college,

and then he made her drive down that alley.) ???

(Just because library books were "found" in the passenger seat of her car,

doesn't necessarily mean that someone had not been sitting in it, at some time previously.

You can move, some books.)

Edited by billiemichele

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(I cannot "edit" this post again, so I need to add something to this following post):

(Now this is on a completely different subject, because I do not think Gareth Penn is the Zodiac.)

What I do want to know, however, is why one of his so-called articles (on ecphorizer.com) is:

"Where Were You"

(when JFK was killed)

"JFK was born in Brookline, Massachusetts."

(his brother Robert was too)

"JFK went to Harvard."

(and his father went to Harvard.)

"It is believed that the Kennedys were descended from, the O'Kennedy (s)

I want to know why Gareth Penn found (a 'victim' in Brookline, Massachusetts), and "tried to say" that: He thought he was the Zodiac.

Gareth Penn:

"I found him in a Harvard yearbook.

He lives in Brookline, Massachusetts."

[HERE IS THE "ADDITION", I am adding to this posting]:

As I stated, in the BIO of JFK, it also stated

- Other than the,

"JFK was born in Brookline, Massachusetts",

JFK went to Harvard"

(says his father did too) that:

"It is believed that the Kennedy (s) descended from the O' Kennedy (s)

The person who Gareth stated he:

"found in a Harvard yearbook,

he lives in Brookline, Massachusetts",

his name was: O' (....)

```````

(YEARBOOK)

That is real interesting, because I think that is "possibly" how the Zodiac found HIS victims.

YEARBOOKs

(back to BIO of JFK)

...."In yearbook, it stated, "Most Likely to Succeed"

(One more addition to my postings):

(Stated in Bio of JFK)

"His father, Joseph"

(Cheri Jo Bates' father's name: Joseph)

```````````

In regard to the victims in the Zodiac case, I do not think they were random cases.

I believe they were CHOSEN.

(Chosen for certain, "keywords")

(and the cases done in certain ways, in order to get "keywords" in.

For example: the article that came out after the finding of the body of Cher Jo Bates:

Cheri Jo Bates was found near the "alley".

(Possibly, this one too, stated in the same article):

outside the "school library annex")

Jack the Ripper

/

JFK Assassination case

(By the way, this killer would have loved it had they included this "keyword" in the Zodiac articles as well, which they didn't:

"Assassin")

"After JFK was killed, many people stated he went to the slaughter like a lamb."

Stated in THE CONFESSION letter ("letter and poem"), after the murder of Cheri Jo Bates

("throat cut from ear to ear"; "alley";

/

"school library annex"):

Miss Bates

"went to the slaughter like a lamb"

````````

Cecilia SHEPARD

```````````````

(BIO of JFK)

"After JFK was killed, the Canadian government named a mountain after him.

Mt. Kennedy"

"His brother, Robert F. Kennedy (along with other men) climbed to the summit.

He was the first one to reach the summit, where he placed a banner of arms."

(Coat of Arms)

`````````

Zodiac sent a map in, where he placed (drew) the symbol that he used,

on Mt. Diablo

``````````````````````

(Like I said, I do not believe Gareth Penn was/is the Zodiac.)

I would like to know, however,

after: in 1982, I think it was, when Gareth Penn came out of the woodwork with:

"I have a radian theory."

("radians" was stated in a Zodiac letter, along with the map)

The word "radian" has been around since the 1800s,

but for some reason, Gareth Penn seems to believe, you have to be a genious, to have ever heard that word before.

Remember using a compass in school (grade school, junior high, high school) and taking Geometry.

MANY people are aware of that term and they know what it is.

(If you have kiddos, here is a site for them):

Pi - Geometry for Kids!

scienceforkids.kidipede.com/math/geometry/pi.htm

Gareth Penn then 'zoomed off' to:

Where "JFK was born at", Brookline, Massachusetts

where "JFK went to school at." Harvard

Gareth Penn:

"I found him in a Harvard yearbook.

He lives in Brookline, Massachusetts."

His name: " O' " (....)

(who was nothing more than a 'victim', of Gareth Penn)

He "tried" to say that, he thought this guy was the Zodiac.

(No, there was another reason that he did that.

Although I am not sure, at this time, what that reason was.)

One more "addition":

When I was talking about the so-called article of Gareth Penn at ecphorizer.com

(He "supposedly", at least according to him, joined Mensa, where he then started writing these so-called articles - which have to do with this thoughts about, the Zodiac case),

and this is why I am questioning, about the one that is entitled:

"Where Were You"

(when JFK was shot)

The reason being: I am aware that the Zodiac made MANY "references" to JFK/JFK Assassination case.

(So what I want to know is, why did Gareth Penn do THAT article,

when all of his so-called articles at ecphorizer.com, seem to have to do with this thoughts about, the Zodiac case.)

``````

Penn has talked about, "Lewis Carroll"

(And I think I know why):

In reading about the Jack the Ripper case, you see that this was another "theory", on someone's part. (It was 'stated' that Lewis Carroll did word-games 'within' his writings, so hence, someone came up with that "theory".

(I have not read Penn's self-published 'book', Times 17. However, I have seen statements from people (on a forum board) who have read it.)

He mentioned, "Invisible Geometry".

(It is also referred to as, "Sacred Geometry", from what I have read about it.)

I think I know where he got that idea from:

Jack the Ripper case.

(Another "theory", on someone's part): Some believe that Jack the Ripper,

may have been trying to (by using the crime scene locations),

draw something on the map. (using Invisible Geometry) The common thing stated is: Maybe it was a Pentagram.

However, if you take a look, you see that the dots (of the locations) do not look anything like, a Pentagram.)

You see, all of this has been stated BEFORE. (in the Jack the Ripper case)

(Penn is 'trying' to make everyone believe that, he came up with it.)

Anyway, Penn is a "COPYCAT" er,

but I highly doubt that he is the same "COPYCAT" er.

as the Zodiac.

(However, I would find it hard to believe,

"if" Penn had not realized that:

Zodiac was a "COPYCAT" er.)

Penn (a "Copycat" er)

is trying to COPYCAT

Zodiac (a "Copycat" er)

lol...

and, Penn is trying to "COPYCAT",

the "theory" (stated by others), in regard to the Jack the Ripper case

(trying to apply it to, the Zodiac case)

If you cut through all of the babble-babble of the Zodiac

(and you cut through the babble-babble of Penn)

you would be able to see what is going on,

with both of them.

(But, some people are too busy trying to solve the "ciphers", and what-not)

So they don't "see", anything else.

(That is right before their eyes.)

Edited by billiemichele

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I cannot edit the posting again, so one more quick addition to this:

(YEARBOOK)

That is real interesting, because I think that is "possibly" how the Zodiac found HIS victims.

YEARBOOKs

(Added addition)

When I stated that, what I meant was:

First found them in YEARBOOKS,

and then, did further research on them.

(Possibly also on their father, as well.)

After that, then possibly stalked them/followed them.

(and got them at an "opportune" moment)

It seems to me that this guy would most likely be the type who, enjoyed the thrill of the hunt.

- He would most likely enjoy the "stalking" part of it, before he moved in for the kill.

Edited by billiemichele

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Regarding: "Communication"

(If the killer of Cheri Jo Bates was the same person who then sent the communiques.)

(I believe the killer is the one who then sent the communiques.)

(Also, from what I have noticed from doing my own handwriting comparisons (using small letter "f", due to the way that they were made) the "f" on the desktop poem seems to match "f" s in the Zodiac letters.)

, let's look at what then occurred, after those communiques were sent:

As far as I am aware, the Riverside newspaper did NOT report in the newspaper, about THE CONFESSION letter (and other communiques) that were sent.

So, if they were sent by the killer, the "communication" then did not continue.

(The murder occurred in Oct. 1966, and in regard to the communiques sent in, that ended in 1967.)

``````````

Dec. 1968 (which was not very long after that),

the first (Zodiac case) occurred.

After doing the second case, the killer then sent in a letter to THREE newspapers.

(* Whether or not Vallejo P.D. believed the letter was from the actual killer,

it seems to me that there was another reason (also), that this was done:

San Francisco Examiner (I think it was) then stated in an article that:

(Chief of) Vallejo P. D. says that they need more information,

before they will believe the letter was sent by the actual killer.

They were trying to keep the killer "communicating".

(Continuing communication, could possibly provide some evidence in the case.)

```````

(If it was the same killer in Riverside and that same person is who did the communiques in Riverside),

he has now learned that: He needs to do something in order to make sure that his communiques ARE put into the newspaper.

Because in Riverside, they did not do an article on the communiques/put his communiques in the newspaper.

(as far as I am aware)

So now, he gives "directions" (and continued to do so, with almost all of his communiques):

Dear Editor

I want you to print this on your front page.

If you do not do this, I will go on a kill rampage.

(Some of them stated:

If you do not do this,

I will do something nasty, which you know I am capable of doing.)

The "line of communication" was then open.

(San Francisco Chronicle, Paul Avery

- continued to report on, the Zodiac case.

Knowing that he was/and would, this is where Zodiac sent almost all of the communiques to.)

(Whether or not that is where he lived at.)

`````````

Killer in Riverside:

- "copycat" ("copy"cat) killer

- (If the killer is the same person who then sent in communiques)

A "communicating" killer

(This also involves the "copycat" ting, as well.)

- (From doing my own handwriting comparison analysis, I have determined that the "f" on the desk looks amazingly similar to, "f" s in the Zodiac letters.)

1966-1967

time period

`````````

1968 - ....

Zodiac case:

"copycat" ("copy"cat) killer

- (If the killer is the same person who then sent in communiques):

A "communicating" killer

(This also involved the "copycat" ting, as well. Who the person was copycatting, which was Jack the Ripper/and, his letters.)

``````````

(Two rounds of)

1966 - 1967

1968 - .....

"Copy"cat killer (both cases. Included, sending in communiques, same as the one that they were copycatting: Jack the Ripper)

("Copy"catted the same thing)

(Same type of 'personality' seen in the letters, in the two cases)

````````

(In regard to the writings, the "f" s seem to match.

Which is what I compared.)

````````

Lastly, what are the astronomical odds that:

COPYcat killer (of Jack the Ripper)

in the same place (CA)

in the same time period,

(- handwriting matches

- writing "style" matches)

would "not" be the same killer/person.

(i.e.: It would not be astronomical if it was the same person.)

(It would be astronimical, "if" it had not been.)

I think it is the same killer AND the same letter-writer.

Z

Zodiac

`````````

And if that is the case, then police have made the same mistake that was made in this case:

Visalia Ransacker/East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker

"Visalia Ransacker"

(He then started going to different locations)

In the newspaper, it then became:

"East Area Rapist"

(When direction changed from north to south, it then became this, in the newspaper.

However, he had also "evolved".

Went from: breaking into houses

(but even at the end of the Visalia case, he then:

was trying to take the young daughter to the backyard (I think to, rape her, which he later did in the EAR cases),

and when her father tried to protect his daughter, he shot him in the stomach (which killed him.)

He then, kicked the young girl, and left.

(He then continued breaking into homes, and as usual, took small things of little value.

He was not after, stuff. He was after, people. Which will later come out in the case.)

Police detective on stakeout sees the guy (on bicycle. Stolen bicycles, which it will become known that he sometimes rode to and from crime scenes) had an intention on questioning the guy, when he: shot at th detective, which sent flying glass into his eyes. He then escaped.

"Original Night Stalker"

(He has now worked his way up to, not only)

> breaking into houses,

>> raping the females,

>>> he now also: kills everyone in the house. (which are also, witnesses.)

`````````

There as one officer who did not make the mistake:

The detective in Visalia,

always believed that:

Visalia Ransacker

East Area Rapist

Original Night Stalker

were one and the same.

(He was right.)

EAR and Original Night Stalker have been tied through DNA.(not very long ago)

(Because there was not a known "rape" in Visalia,

they are unable to compare DNA with those cases.)

(It is unfortunate that they cannot find some other "source" of DNA, in one or more of the Visalia cases,

that can be used for comparison. A "hair" that fell from his head, or something.)

But, he usually wore such things as: (full-face) toboggans and hoods.

(Or, maybe a fingerprint, in one or more of the Visalia Cases.)

(He may have worn gloves, in most of the cases.)

````````

You see,

Z

Zodiac

....if this guy did cases in different locations (Riverside, Vallejo, Napa, San Francisco) (possibly one in Los Angeles),

well....that could put a real damper on the investigation.

(And many times different police departments do not like to work "together" on things.)

`````````

(Stated in a Zodiac letter after doing the case in San Francisco):

"I shall change the way"

The guy had already been, "changing the way" (s) - including, "different locations".

`````````

(If the same guy did the case in Riverside/and the letter-writer was the killer in that case):

THE CONFESSION

BY _______

stated:

"She isn't the first

and she won't be the last"

(I think she most likely was the first, but who knows that as a "fact".

"If" she wasn't, the question would have to be asked:

Who (most likely a "female")

and Where

did he kill before.

Of course, we wouldn't know the answer to that one.

(It is stated that they do have DNA in the Riverside case, however.

I think I read that this includes:

There was "hair in the palm of Cheri Jo Bates' hand".

There was "skin underneath her fingernails".)

It is stated that they have DNA in the Zodiac case. ('partial profile')

If that is true, have they ever "compared" the two cases?

"If" not, why not?

"If" they did, what was the finding on that ?

How come nothing has been stated about this? (by them. Police, and D.O.J.) ...

Edited by billiemichele

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