Jesus' lost years?

[poopopo]

The lost years of Jesus refer to his activities between the ages of 12 and 30, of which there is no mention in the bible. The church would have us believe that what transpired during these years is of no biblical importance, and thus omitted from the gospels. In the Gospels of Luke, in one extract Jesus is 12 and in the Temple at Jerusalem, in the following extract he is 30 and is being baptized in the river Jordan by John the Baptist. Many theories have surfaced regarding his whereabouts during these years, the most prominent being that Jesus joined a trade caravan and travelled to the Far East, following the silk route under the guidance of a cabal of merchants.

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called ‘The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men’ after the monks had spoke of an ‘Issa’ being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago. Through a translator, the story was read to Notovich by the head lama, while Notovich furiously scribbled down what he could. His book on the subject, ‘The Secret Life of Jesus Christ’, can still be bought. Rumors persist of the text Notovich saw still existing in the Hemis Library. Perhaps the most irrefutable piece of evidence comes from the Bhavishya Maha Purana, a highly respected ancient Indian text. The King of Kashmir, in the early first century AD, records how he met a fair haired, fair complexioned teacher dressed in white robes who came from the west, described himself as being born of a virgin, persecuted by his people and being the son of God.

www.listverse.com

[Eldorado]

Hello and welcome to UM, Honeyavocado!

It's an interesting theory and one I've read about before.

Who knows?

Edited September 28, 2010 by Eldorado

[ohio state buckeyes]

The lost years of Jesus refer to his activities between the ages of 12 and 30, of which there is no mention in the bible. The church would have us believe that what transpired during these years is of no biblical importance, and thus omitted from the gospels. In the Gospels of Luke, in one extract Jesus is 12 and in the Temple at Jerusalem, in the following extract he is 30 and is being baptized in the river Jordan by John the Baptist. Many theories have surfaced regarding his whereabouts during these years, the most prominent being that Jesus joined a trade caravan and travelled to the Far East, following the silk route under the guidance of a cabal of merchants.

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called ‘The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men’ after the monks had spoke of an ‘Issa’ being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago. Through a translator, the story was read to Notovich by the head lama, while Notovich furiously scribbled down what he could. His book on the subject, ‘The Secret Life of Jesus Christ’, can still be bought. Rumors persist of the text Notovich saw still existing in the Hemis Library. Perhaps the most irrefutable piece of evidence comes from the Bhavishya Maha Purana, a highly respected ancient Indian text. The King of Kashmir, in the early first century AD, records how he met a fair haired, fair complexioned teacher dressed in white robes who came from the west, described himself as being born of a virgin, persecuted by his people and being the son of God.

www.listverse.com

Its a interesting theory and if Jesus hung out with Buddhist monks that cool with me.

[norwood1026]

If I remember right the last mention of Jesus was that of when he was in a church teaching. Like with anything I guess it depends who you ask. I have always wondered this myself why would their be missing years of such a important person. I've always thought it's because his life wasn't perfect & he was human after all. Why else would all those years be excluded from his life? Perhaps because he did marry or did journey to other places.

[+Paranoid Android]

If I remember right the last mention of Jesus was that of when he was in a church teaching. Like with anything I guess it depends who you ask. I have always wondered this myself why would their be missing years of such a important person. I've always thought it's because his life wasn't perfect & he was human after all. Why else would all those years be excluded from his life? Perhaps because he did marry or did journey to other places.

The answer is more likely a result of the relative expense of parchment in relation to the relative value in recording the information. This is a common theme in ancient Near East biographies of important figures. Kings and rulers, for example, will have their birth recorded, perhaps one or two accounts of special events that occurred as a child, and then skip to the important part of the King's life - when he actually takes the throne and governs the nation.

Jesus' childhood wasn't that important. His ministry to the Jews, however, was. It is not surprising that the gospels focus on his ministry and only very slightly touch on his childhood.

Just a thought,

~ PA

[markprice]

...the most prominent being that Jesus joined a trade caravan and travelled to the Far East, following the silk route under the guidance of a cabal of merchants.

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called ‘The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men’ after the monks had spoke of an ‘Issa’ being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago...

I always thought he did that, but I didn't know there was a book about it. Issa is the Arabic name for Jesus in Islam. That seems like pretty clear evidence, especially if that original text still exists in the monestary...

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Jesus was not saint issa. The story is a fabrication. Those were my thoughts also but it was wrong. I started a saint issa thread not too long ago. Search it out answerd may be found there.

[Maizer]

I always thought late 20's to the early 30's was the most optimal time to do what he did. Not too young to be looked as a kid, not too old to overcome the hardships of his travels and teaching burden. But speculating of what he did before is always interesting.

[Dr. D]

The lost years of Jesus refer to his activities between the ages of 12 and 30, of which there is no mention in the bible. The church would have us believe that what transpired during these years is of no biblical importance, and thus omitted from the gospels. In the Gospels of Luke, in one extract Jesus is 12 and in the Temple at Jerusalem, in the following extract he is 30 and is being baptized in the river Jordan by John the Baptist. Many theories have surfaced regarding his whereabouts during these years, the most prominent being that Jesus joined a trade caravan and travelled to the Far East, following the silk route under the guidance of a cabal of merchants.

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called ‘The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men’ after the monks had spoke of an ‘Issa’ being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago. Through a translator, the story was read to Notovich by the head lama, while Notovich furiously scribbled down what he could. His book on the subject, ‘The Secret Life of Jesus Christ’, can still be bought. Rumors persist of the text Notovich saw still existing in the Hemis Library. Perhaps the most irrefutable piece of evidence comes from the Bhavishya Maha Purana, a highly respected ancient Indian text. The King of Kashmir, in the early first century AD, records how he met a fair haired, fair complexioned teacher dressed in white robes who came from the west, described himself as being born of a virgin, persecuted by his people and being the son of God.

www.listverse.com

I prefer the idea that Jesus lived with the Essenes. His basic philosophy was very similar to their teachings and the way that he described where the disciples should go after his death also suggested Essene communities.

[Eldorado]

FGS...

"Story is a common term for a description of a sequence of events, or a statement regarding the facts pertinent to a situation in question"

source; wikipedia

Jeez....the thread is about the "lost years of Jesus"...if you don't believe he existed, why post anything in the thread? Just to ruin a discussion you have no interest in?

pfft

Edited September 28, 2010 by Eldorado

[cluey]

The lost years of Jesus refer to his activities between the ages of 12 and 30, of which there is no mention in the bible. The church would have us believe that what transpired during these years is of no biblical importance, and thus omitted from the gospels. In the Gospels of Luke, in one extract Jesus is 12 and in the Temple at Jerusalem, in the following extract he is 30 and is being baptized in the river Jordan by John the Baptist. Many theories have surfaced regarding his whereabouts during these years, the most prominent being that Jesus joined a trade caravan and travelled to the Far East, following the silk route under the guidance of a cabal of merchants.

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called 'The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men' after the monks had spoke of an 'Issa' being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago. Through a translator, the story was read to Notovich by the head lama, while Notovich furiously scribbled down what he could. His book on the subject, 'The Secret Life of Jesus Christ', can still be bought. Rumors persist of the text Notovich saw still existing in the Hemis Library. Perhaps the most irrefutable piece of evidence comes from the Bhavishya Maha Purana, a highly respected ancient Indian text. The King of Kashmir, in the early first century AD, records how he met a fair haired, fair complexioned teacher dressed in white robes who came from the west, described himself as being born of a virgin, persecuted by his people and being the son of God.

www.listverse.com

soooo!!!....are you asking if anyone knows the wear-abouts of jesus during this time???........cause of course there is no way anyone of us would know(going by the fact even the bible doesn't even document it.....and there could be many possibilities ?) ......unless.....any of us where a dealer in Antiquities that had gotten our hands on the truth and not told anyone........(No!! wait!!!....cause that's even more insane )

Edited September 28, 2010 by cluey

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Let's just say he's real. What did happen to the son of god during these years? Let's get on point here.

Although the story of issa was also my answer untill I studied further and found it to be a fallacy. I was disappointed. It made so much sense.

Just curious could john the baptist also have been jesus? He was mistaken for him. Just don't have enough info to say for sure they were one in the same. Disregarding the baptism, they could have been the same person. No?

[crystal sage]

Jesus.. Mary and Archangel Gabriel are mentioned in the Quran...

My link

The Quran discusses Mary's miraculous conception as well. "Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects." (Quran 19:16-17). After seeing the angel, she said: "I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear God." (Quran 19:18). The angel Gabriel responded: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a pure son." (Quran 19:19). Her next response is expected. She asked: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (Quran 19:20). The Angel Gabriel said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us.' It is a matter (so) decreed." (Quran 19:21). Mary then becomes pregnant.

Jesus is a Prophet and a Messenger. A Messenger is a Prophet who is given revelation from God. Whereas the Torah was revealed to Moses, the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Messengers are a mercy, guidance, and sign from God. "And God will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel, and (appoint him) as a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message):

'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I bring the dead into life, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe. (I have come to you) to attest the Torah which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you. I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" (Quran 3:48-51).

When she brings the baby to her people, they said: "O Mary! truly a strange thing has thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (Quran 19:27-8). Mary then points to the baby. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (Quran 19:29). Then a miracle occurs that is not mentioned in the Bible. In defense of his mother, Jesus said: "I am indeed a servant of God. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest; So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!" (Quran 19:30-33).

My link

[SlimJim22]

These may be a bit far out in some of there speculations but some salient points to grow out of them.

First this one looks at the meaning of four symbols.

we have the fact that the Sacraments of Christianity utilize four material supports: bread, wine, oil and water. Four is the number of the Hindu castes. It is far more than a coincidence that these four substances also represent the four varnas (castes) of Hindu traditions. Bread is white like the heraldic color of the Brahmans it represents. Wine is red like blood, and characterizes the warlike Kshatriyas. Oil is yellow like the fat Vaishyas it symbolizes.

Finally, water is blue like the symbolic color of the Sudras or serfs. Indeed, the heraldic color of the Sudras is black. Black is confused in India with blue or purple, for traditional reasons. In reality, water symbolizes Death, as by drowning at the Flood, a form that results in a purple color for the dead. As we see, the four substances represent the contributions of the Four Races (or castes), as well as their respective elements, with oil representing Fire; water, Water; wine (spirit) representing Air, and bread standing for the Earth, from which wheat grows.

The Four Elements are not indeed the ones that compose the material world, but those which destroy it when the eras come to their end. Fire, Water, Air and Earth allegorize the universal Conflagrations, Floods, Hurricanes and Earthquakes that either unite or work separately in order to destroy the world, when the time comes for it to happen. The same allegory is also symbolized by the Four Magian Kings: the three usual ones plus the fourth, Christ, to whom they came in order to pay their respect. Jesus is the Logos, the Word, the "Divine Breath" that corresponds to Wind.

In other words, Jesus represents the Brahman priests, issued from the mouth of Purusha, the Primordial Man, the intoners of the sacred mantras ("prayers"). The other three Kings are characterized by their gifts. Gold, the ruddy metal, represents the Kshatryas ("Reds" or "Warrior Caste") in their pristine, undecayed condition. Myrrh is indeed musk (civet), the noblest form of "butter", the element that represents the Vaishyas (the Merchants or Burgeoisie). And, finally, incense, the burnt offering of excellency, represents the dark Sudras ("Serfs"), the "charred" element whose fate has been the cruel one of serving the other three castes. The Sudras stand for the Chams (Chamites) or Ethiopians, whose name means "burnt", and who were fated to serve the other three races or castes, just as told in the Bible.

http://www.atlan.org/articles/sacraments/

It then goes on about the significance of the seven sacraments and miracles. I thought it was very interesting an a unique approach to the topic at hand.

http://www.opencheops.org/page3.htm

The next one is an article on the egyptian mystery school and the possibility that esus had undergone a symbolic crucifixion and death prior to his ministry and subsequent physical cricifixion. Maybe maybe not. There is also a book by Ralph Ellis on this subject. Have you read it Crystal Sage? I haven't gotten around to it and don't know if I ever will tbh

Edited September 28, 2010 by SlimJim22

[crystal sage]

The Persian Kamal u-Din by Said-us-Saddiq mentions Jesus in the late ninth century.

My link

From an interesting book..

My link

History bears evidence that in 721 B.C. Sargaon II captured the Kingdom of Israel

and all the Jewish inhabitants were captured and exiled. Most of these tribes came to

Iran, Afghanistan and India and settled down in these lands. Thus the Founder of the

Ahmadiyyah Movement adduced historical evidence to prove that Jewish tribes

did settle in these countries and Jesus Christ in order to fulfil his Divine Mission

(Matt., 15:24) visited them and finally at the age of 125 years died in Kashmir. This

aspect of the subject has been dealt with by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in his

following books: 1. Itmam al-Hujjah (1894), 2. Noor al-Quran (1895), 3. Noor

al-Haque Part II (1898), 4. Raz-i-Haqiqat (1898), 5. Tuhfa-i-Golarwiyah (1900),

6. Al-huda (1902), 7. Barahin-i-Ahmadiyyah Part V (1908), 8. Nuzool-al-Masih (1909).

In 1899, Khalifa Noor al-Din of Jalalpur Jattan, (Dist Gujrat), a devoted disciple

of Hazrat Mirza Sahib, who had lived in Kashmir for quite some time, pointed out to

him that there existed in Srinagar a tomb of a prophet Yus Asaf or Isa Sahib who came

to Kashmir from a foreign country. On directions from Hazrat Mirza Sahib, for making

further investigations into the matter, Khalifa Noor al-Din went to Srinagar and

stayed there for four months, collected evidence and procured 556 signatures to the

fact that the tomb was in fact that of Jesus Christ. He also brought sketch of the Tomb.

Later, Maulvi Muhammad Abdullah, a leading advocate of Srinagar collected further

evidence in this behalf. All these facts along with other historical, linguistic, ethnic,

cultural evidence and a map showing the route taken by Jesus Christ while coming to

India were documented in Masih Hindustan Main a unique and basic research work

on the subject. This book by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib was written sometime

in 1899, but with the intention of adding more evidence, its publication was kept

in abeyance, and was finally published after the Founders death in 1908. Its English

translation was published from Qadian in 1944.]

My link

Referred to as St. Issa in Buddhist and Hindu lore and texts, it is said Jesus journeyed through modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, before traveling extensively through India and settling in Tibet. He studied and lived among the Buddhist monks for 6 years before returning to Jerusalem to preach. There is some evidence to support this. In 1887, Russian Explorer and Aristocrat Nicholas Notovich stayed at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, Northern India, while recuperating after a broken leg. He heard of a text within the monastery library called ‘The Life of St Issa, Best of the Sons of Men’ after the monks had spoke of an ‘Issa’ being a student at the monastery over a thousand years ago. Through a translator, the story was read to Notovich by the head lama, while Notovich furiously scribbled down what he could. His book on the subject, ‘The Secret Life of Jesus Christ’, can still be bought. Rumors persist of the text Notovich saw still existing in the Hemis Library. Perhaps the most irrefutable piece of evidence comes from the Bhavishya Maha Purana, a highly respected ancient Indian text. The King of Kashmir, in the early first century AD, records how he met a fair haired, fair complexioned teacher dressed in white robes who came from the west, described himself as being born of a virgin, persecuted by his people and being the son of God.

In his book, Notovitch mentions a Tibetan text called The Life of Saint Issa: Best of the Sons of Men, which he heard about when he was a guest at a Buddhist monastery. According to this work, Christ left Jerusalem with a train of merchants when he was about 14, which was when most males were expected to marry, and he jour­neyed to India. (In my research, I’ve found comparable descriptions of these travels. Depending on the culture, Jesus is either called “Issa,” “Isa;” “YuzAsaf,” “Budasaf,” “YuzAsaph,” “San Issa,” or “Yesu.”)

Notovitch was stunned by the parallel of “Issa’s” teachings and martyrdom that coincided with Christ’s life-and even his Cru­cifixion. The story of Saint Issa describes him arriving in India and settling among the Aryas, in the country “beloved by God.”

Edited September 28, 2010 by crystal sage

[crystal sage]

I do recall reading somewhere that Jesus spent some of his youth living in caves.. also about his travels through what is now known as Turkey...

I wonder if he spent time in those ancient underground cities?

My link

The oldest written source about underground cities is the Anabasis named book of Xenophon (Written around B.C. 4). In the book is mentioned that the people living in Anatolia have caved their houses underground and that the houses are connected to each other with holes: "The houses were built underground; the entrances were like wells but they broadened out lower down. There were tunnels dug in the ground for the animals wkile the men went down by ladder. Inside the houses there were goats, sheep, cows and poultry with their young..."

Later the underground cities were the place of the hiding of the first Christians who escaped from the persecution of the Roman soldiers and were enlarged to able when were necessary an entire city to live and every kind of fixture necessary for the living of the people has been attached. When there wasn't any danger the people living on the ground in case of the danger have hidden in the underground cities. For this reason all the homes at that time were connected to the underground cities with a tunnel

My link

It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the "Home of Mary", found along the ancient silk route. In his travels through Persia (today's Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Issa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah's son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa's "Awhali Shahaii-i-paras" that tell of Yuz Asaf's travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also. There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ's teachings. Researchers claim that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah). It describes Christ's arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time.

The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issa, i.e. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern Pakistan to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area. For instance, at the border of a small town called Murree, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called ‘Mai Mari da Asthan’ or "The final resting place of Mary". The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it

My link

Paul first visited Ephesus on his second missionary journey (Acts 18:19 - around 51 A.D. - less than 20 years after the death and resurrection of Christ). He left Priscilla and Aquila there at Ephesus while Paul went on to Jerusalem. At this time, Apollos was converted in Ephesus by Priscilla and Aquila. Apollos then went to Corinth and gained quite a following for Christ. In Acts 18:23, Paul began his third missionary journey. He traveled across modern Turkey on land and came back to Ephesus. When he arrived, (probably in 52 A.D.) he found around 12 disciples of John the Baptist who may have been converted by Apollos. These received the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands by Paul. Paul went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews. Some of the Jews did not believe but hardened their hearts and spoke evil of the Way. Paul did not stay in the synagogue, but rather withdrew the disciples from the synagogue and moved them to a school. He taught these disciples for two years

Cave Church of St. Peter, Antioch

My link

This cave is widely believed to have been dug by the Apostle Peter himself as a place for the early Christian community of Antioch to meet, and thus to be the very first Christian church.

Whether or not this is so, St. Peter (and St. Paul) did preach in Antioch around 50 AD and a church had been established in Antioch by as early as 40 AD.

Antioch became a major center for planning and organizing the apostles' missionary efforts, and it was the base for Paul's earliest missionary journeys. Famously, it was the inhabitants of Antioch that first called Jesus' followers "Christians" (Acts 11:26).

The attractive stone façade of the church was built by Crusaders, who identified the grotto during their rule of Antioch from 1098 to 1268.

My link

After Stephen's martyrdom in Jerusalem, some of the disciples scattered to Antioch and started preaching to the Greeks. When the Christians in Jerusalem heard that many people in Antioch were becoming believers in Christ, they sent Barnabas there, who in turn brought Paul, to help the new converts (Acts 11:19-26).

Paul and Barnabas stayed there for one year, and Paul began and ended his second missionary journey from there. When the prophet Agabus predicted a famine for Israel, the church in Antioch generously sent financial aid to Jerusalem to aid their brethern. Peter also visited Antioch (Galatians 2:11).

Edited September 28, 2010 by crystal sage

[Mr Walker]

Jesus was the son of a skilled tradesman . He spent a lot of time learning his fathers trade. He spent a lot more time studying jewish law and tradition (this is evident in his knowledge and responses as an adult. To do this he would have had to spend most of his time like many bright theologically involved jewish boys at "school," and learning/ debating/ discussing, with other learned men and elders.

He was well known and had a wide circle of friends relatives and associates in his local area (for example he got invited to weddings:))

After his death a local cult worshipping him sprang up almost immediately and set up shrines in places where he had been/ performed miracles, etc.

All of this is indicative of a local boy hanging out at home, and in the local area/ He probably helped his mum a lot coz they had a close realtionship, and may have helped with his younger siblings. (He always had a particualar love of children)

In other words, while anything is POSSIBLE, there is absolutely no evidence jesus travelled outside his home area, (a quite difficult, costly, and time consuming thing to do) and a lot of suggestive evidence that he was a home town boy made good.

There is nothing in his words to suggest examples or knowledge about other places or religions, learned by travel, rather he applies local examples in his parables, and lives a very jewish life.

[crystal sage]

My link

My link

The Church of Saint Peter (St. Peter's Cave Church, Cave-Church of St. Peter) near Antakya (Antioch), Turkey, is composed of a cave carved into the mountainside on Mount Starius with a depth of 13 m, a width of 9.5 m and a height of 7 m. This cave, which was used by the first Christians in the Antakya region, is one of Christianity's oldest churches.

The founding of the church in Antioch can be traced to the Bible's Acts of the Apostles (11:25-27) where it is related that Barnabas travelled to Tarsus to bring Paul the Apostle there. They worked for one year with the nascent Christian community, and there the converts were called Christians for the first time in history. Christian tradition considers Peter, the first Apostle, as the founder of the church of Antioch, and the first priest of the Christian population that was established there; the Church of St. Peter is on the spot where he first preached the Gospel in Antioch.

Only some pieces of floormosaics, and traces of frescoes on the right side of the altar have been preserved that date from the early period of the church. It is thought that the tunnel inside which opens to the mountain side served the Christians to evacuate the church in case of sudden raids and attacks. Water that seeps from the nearby rocks was gathered inside for drinking purposes, and was also used for baptisms. The collection of water, which visitors drank and collected to give to those who were ill (with the belief that it was healing and curative), has lessened as a result of recent earthquakes.

My link

Missionary journeys in the East; Council of the Apostles

St. Luke does not tell us whither Peter went after his liberation from the prison in Jerusalem. From incidental statements we know that he subsequently made extensive missionary tours in the East, although we are given no clue to the chronology of his journeys. It is certain that he remained for a time at Antioch; he may even have returned thither several times. The Christian community of Antioch was founded by Christianized Jews who had been driven from Jerusalem by the persecution (Acts 11:19 sqq.). Peter's residence among them is proved by the episode concerning the observance of the Jewish ceremonial law even by Christianized pagans, related by St. Paul (Galatians 2:11-21). The chief Apostles in Jerusalem — the "pillars", Peter, James, and John — had unreservedly approved St. Paul's Apostolate to the Gentiles, while they themselves intended to labour principally among the Jews. While Paul was dwelling in Antioch (the date cannot be accurately determined), St. Peter came thither and mingled freely with the non-Jewish Christians of the community, frequenting their houses and sharing their meals. But when the Christianized Jews arrived in Jerusalem, Peter, fearing lest these rigid observers of the Jewish ceremonial law should be scandalized thereat, and his influence with the Jewish Christians be imperiled, avoided thenceforth eating with the uncircumcised.

His conduct made a great impression on the other Jewish Christians at Antioch, so that even Barnabas, St. Paul's companion, now avoided eating with the Christianized pagans. As this action was entirely opposed to the principles and practice of Paul, and might lead to confusion among the converted pagans, this Apostle addressed a public reproach to St. Peter, because his conduct seemed to indicate a wish to compel the pagan converts to become Jews and accept circumcision and the Jewish law. The whole incident is another proof of the authoritative position of St. Peter in the early Church, since his example and conduct was regarded as decisive. But Paul, who rightly saw the inconsistency in the conduct of Peter and the Jewish Christians, did not hesitate to defend the immunity of converted pagans from the Jewish Law. Concerning Peter's subsequent attitude on this question St. Paul gives us no explicit information. But it is highly probable that Peter ratified the contention of the Apostle of the Gentiles, and thenceforth conducted himself towards the Christianized pagans as at first. As the principal opponents of his views in this connexion, Paul names and combats in all his writings only the extreme Jewish Christians coming "from James" (i.e., from Jerusalem). While the date of this occurrence, whether before or after the Council of the Apostles, cannot be determined, it probably took place after the council (see below). The later tradition, which existed as early as the end of the second century (Origen, "Hom. vi in Lucam"; Eusebius, Church History III.36), that Peter founded the Church of Antioch, indicates the fact that he laboured a long period there, and also perhaps that he dwelt there towards the end of his life and then appointed Evodrius, the first of the line of Antiochian bishops, head of the community. This latter view would best explain the tradition referring the foundation of the Church of Antioch to St. Peter.

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The second important founder of Christianity is Paul of Tarsus (originally Saul of Tarsus, ~5-67 AD) While the career of Jesus of Nazareth strongly focusses on women and the social status of women, Paul was reactionary against both Jesus's radicalism towards women and the Greek liberality that allowed women a stronger voice in the community than was allowed among the Jews. He demanded that women be silent in church and in matters of theology, thus re-establishing a gendered difference that, it seems, Jesus had in part erased. At the same time, however, there are clearly women serving in the roles of priests and he speaks them.

While Jesus of Nazareth has absolutely nothing to say about slavery—even though it was a common practice—Paul seems to approve of it. In fact, he demands that slaves obey their masters. At the same time, however, he understands the contradiction of a Christian owning another Christian as a slave. He doesn't demand that slaveowners give over their slaves, just simply that it would be the Christian thing to do. In the history of racial slavery from the 1600's to the 1800's, the injunction by Paul that slaves should obey their masters would loom very large in the arguments for slavery.

Above everything else, Paul was a masterful compromiser. He knew when issues mattered and when an important issue should simply be let go of in favor of the expansion of the church. This gives his extant writings a character of indecisiveness, contradiction, and sometimes opportunism. But his goal was the expansion of the central teachings of Jesus of Nazareth throughout the Roman world; as long as he felt that the core or spirit of those teachings were adhered to, he was willing to compromise other things or tolerate in one situation what he wouldn't in another.

[crystal sage]

Jesus was the son of a skilled tradesman . He spent a lot of time learning his fathers trade. He spent a lot more time studying jewish law and tradition (this is evident in his knowledge and responses as an adult. To do this he would have had to spend most of his time like many bright theologically involved jewish boys at "school," and learning/ debating/ discussing, with other learned men and elders.

He was well known and had a wide circle of friends relatives and associates in his local area (for example he got invited to weddings:))

After his death a local cult worshipping him sprang up almost immediately and set up shrines in places where he had been/ performed miracles, etc.

All of this is indicative of a local boy hanging out at home, and in the local area/ He probably helped his mum a lot coz they had a close realtionship, and may have helped with his younger siblings. (He always had a particualar love of children)

In other words, while anything is POSSIBLE, there is absolutely no evidence jesus travelled outside his home area, (a quite difficult, costly, and time consuming thing to do) and a lot of suggestive evidence that he was a home town boy made good.

There is nothing in his words to suggest examples or knowledge about other places or religions, learned by travel, rather he applies local examples in his parables, and lives a very jewish life.

If he lived a very Jewish life he would have been married with children by the time he was 30.

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At the turn of the millennium, a young Jew who reached the age of 12 was invited to “build his house, plant a vineyard, and finally to marry.” This was vital to the struggling Jews who were bound by sacred oath to be “fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 9:1). In the Old Testament, unmarried people were “sometimes likened to murderers (Craveri, 1967, p. 266).” And this was Jesus’ attitude toward marriage. He said “…a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife…” (Matt 19:5/Mark 10:7). Almost all Jews were married and had children. The exceptions were notable and rare (e.g., Jeremiah in the Seventh Century B.C., John the Baptist in Jesus’ time).

Being a member of the Essenes did not restrict Jesus from marrying. Although some sect members were celibate, the Essenes allowed members of the kingly (Davidic) and priestly (Zardokite) lines to marry and reproduce. The only restrictions were that sexual intercourse was not allowed before a man was 20.

As a son of a skilled carpenter he would too have been in the trade and there would have been many references too it in his parables. For example he would have gifted those at the wedding with some of his crafted handiwork that would be usefull in their married lives rather than providing the wine. His sibblings too would have been in the trade.

There would have been some of his carpentry left for posterity rather than just pieces of his cross.. ( How ironic.. being nailed to probably an inferior piece of carptentry and having that piece of work associated with your name for the rest of all time).

SCHOLARS

"...the Greek word for 'carpenter' in the gospels actually stands for an underlying Aramaic term that is used metaphorically in the Talmud to denote a scholar." (Porter, 2004, p. 81)

"In the Gospels, Jesus is called a tekton, a Greek word that meant not merely a carpenter skilled in making cabinets or furniture but a designer, construction engineer, or architect. A tekton could build a house, construct a bridge, or design a temple." (Starbird, 2003, p. 53)

It is highly unlikely that Jesus was a carpenter. If we examine the 48 parables that occur in the Gospels, not a single one draws upon the experiences of a carpenter. Three of them refer to buildings (e.g., house divided, foolish builder, unfinished tower), and these may offer support for the idea that Jesus father was a builder, not a carpenter

It's also possible that Jesus and his family belonged to a group known as The Sleb, a still existing band of Bedouins, found mostlyin Syria, whose ancestry and customs include not only the Essenes but claim to go all the way back to Cain. This would explain the propensity to travel, which Robert Eisler (1931) has argued (in The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist), claiming that Jesus family plied their trade in the timeless manner of the Sleb. Interestingly, the Sleb were known to be accomplished in carpentry, masonry, building and a whole host of skills, and they fit well within the definitions of tekton, the name used to describe Josephs occupation. They were also known to be healers (Sinclair, 1952).

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THE ALEXANDRIAN & ESSENE INFLUENCE UPON EARLY CHRISTIANITY

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Edited September 28, 2010 by crystal sage

[Mr Walker]

name='crystal sage' timestamp='1285713189' post='3590585']

If he lived a very Jewish life he would have been married with children by the time he was 30.

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Not if he was simply a man more interested in the spiritual than the physical.

All his own words and teachings illustrate that he was. He recognised and respected that many people did not possess his spiritual preoccupation, but encouraged every one to be more spiritual. He explained that wives and children were a distraction to spiritual men because one had to prioritise what was important.

And that is all just if jesus was a mortal man. Even the gospels illustrate a suspicion about jesus legitimacy within his community. He would not have been attractive to local women. This may explain the closeness /emotional bond he always retained with his mother

If he was the son of god impregenated with the holy spirit then he may have had other reasons for not getting married or producing children.

As a son of a skilled carpenter he would too have been in the trade and there would have been many references too it in his parables. For example he would have gifted those at the wedding with some of his crafted handiwork that would be usefull in their married lives rather than providing the wine. His sibblings too would have been in the trade.

There is some evidence in the gospels and elsewhere tha tin fact jesus was a carpenter. Ive read it in a number of places, but dont have specific references. It is also possible that the male siblings (from josephs first marriage) were also carpenters, but i cant remember reading anything about that.

There would have been some of his carpentry left for posterity rather than just pieces of his cross.. ( How ironic.. being nailed to probably an inferior piece of carptentry and having that piece of work associated with your name for the rest of all time).

There is as much chance that some of his wood work exists today, as there is that some of joseph's does.

My link

THE ALEXANDRIAN & ESSENE INFLUENCE UPON EARLY CHRISTIANITY

My link

[Ashara]

I remember reading that he lived in england at that time, that they found a church under glastonbury as Joseph of Arimathea was a tin trader and at that time the best there was came from cornwall in the south of england some scotish academic supposedly found evidence of it under glastonbury as the cathedral there was founded by Joseph Christs uncle would explain a few things also, like the first christian churches to be built above ground were built in England. And that during the time Christ was here, he was schooled and taught by the Druids, whom Rome did all they could to wipe from the face of the earth, what raises other questions too. As rome wanted them gone so bad they allowed bodecia to sack Londinum ( London ) as at the time were fighting the last of the druids and wanted them dead more then protecting the Capital here.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Ashara

[+Paranoid Android]

Jesus was the son of a skilled tradesman . He spent a lot of time learning his fathers trade. He spent a lot more time studying jewish law and tradition (this is evident in his knowledge and responses as an adult. To do this he would have had to spend most of his time like many bright theologically involved jewish boys at "school," and learning/ debating/ discussing, with other learned men and elders.

He was well known and had a wide circle of friends relatives and associates in his local area (for example he got invited to weddings:))

After his death a local cult worshipping him sprang up almost immediately and set up shrines in places where he had been/ performed miracles, etc.

All of this is indicative of a local boy hanging out at home, and in the local area/ He probably helped his mum a lot coz they had a close realtionship, and may have helped with his younger siblings. (He always had a particualar love of children)

In other words, while anything is POSSIBLE, there is absolutely no evidence jesus travelled outside his home area, (a quite difficult, costly, and time consuming thing to do) and a lot of suggestive evidence that he was a home town boy made good.

There is nothing in his words to suggest examples or knowledge about other places or religions, learned by travel, rather he applies local examples in his parables, and lives a very jewish life.

A very tidy summation, I must say. I like the reasoning. Thanks for sharing

[crystal sage]

Not if he was simply a man more interested in the spiritual than the physical.

All his own words and teachings illustrate that he was. He recognised and respected that many people did not possess his spiritual preoccupation, but encouraged every one to be more spiritual. He explained that wives and children were a distraction to spiritual men because one had to prioritise what was important.

And that is all just if jesus was a mortal man. Even the gospels illustrate a suspicion about jesus legitimacy within his community. He would not have been attractive to local women. This may explain the closeness /emotional bond he always retained with his mother

If he was the son of god impregenated with the holy spirit then he may have had other reasons for not getting married or producing children.

There is some evidence in the gospels and elsewhere tha tin fact jesus was a carpenter. Ive read it in a number of places, but dont have specific references. It is also possible that the male siblings (from josephs first marriage) were also carpenters, but i cant remember reading anything about that.

There is as much chance that some of his wood work exists today, as there is that some of joseph's does.

Could you imagine Jesus then hanging on the cross .. simply over this crucifiction.. questioning God's point in all this...My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" looking around .. seeing the crowds.. passing a few soothing words.. maybe even a joke or two about the shoddy workmanship of the cross...

To know that He is most recognizable by the symbol of his demise.. the wooden cross....

Or him , as a baby, being held by his Mum...

His Mum has been just as famous throughout the following centuries as Jesus himself... has been as gifted at creating miracles..

I still think that this Gabriel... is a King maker.. was responsible for the births or the influence of many of the famous throughout religious history.

Was he the in-between Man/ Angel.. the 'Front Man" of God?

Did he ever act as God Father to these mystical offspring?

Teach them.. prepare them for their prophetic life?

Gabriel was there before all these historic events.. Surely he would have followed up on these missions..

Or did God have others to help out here?

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I think Archangel Gabriel was a Time Traveller of sorts.. Was around when many of the biblical women conceived..

?? Maybe John the Baptist and Jesus were related in more ways than one???

Did he ever tutor

[Tiggs]

Jeez....the thread is about the "lost years of Jesus"...if you don't believe he existed, why post anything in the thread? Just to ruin a discussion you have no interest in?

pfft

Noted.

The thread has been split into two. This version of the thread, being in the SR&B section, should be discussed with the starting position that Jesus existed. The SvS version of the thread can be found here.

Tiggs

[Forum Mod Team]

[fullywired]

After reading the title and the posts in this thread .I tried to find some evidence of the early life of Jesus but I soon realised there is no evidence ,everything was pure speculation.people were claiming all kinds scenarios for him ,if we are to believe some ,Jesus was a member of the "jet set" visiting the unlikeliest places.

I was drawn to the conclusion that nothing is known about the early life of Jesus and everything that is said is just wishful thinking

fullywired