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JonathanVonErich

The Green River Killer, Gary Ridgway

81 posts in this topic

Thanks guys.

JonathanVon Erich, I am trying to make my way too those posts!

SO MUCH TO READ!! LOL

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Thanks guys.

JonathanVon Erich, I am trying to make my way too those posts!

SO MUCH TO READ!! LOL

Yes, any contribution to the Serial Killer of the Week threads is welcome. Just like JVE said, don't be shy to make your own article about an infamous killer. I started the topic because I thought it was a very interesting idea, but I haven't written one since the "Slavemaster" thread about a couple of months back. I've just been busy with counseling and waiting for these new meds to work (I have ADHD), so I've been all over the place lately. So give it a shot if you want.

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Yes, any contribution to the Serial Killer of the Week threads is welcome. Just like JVE said, don't be shy to make your own article about an infamous killer. I started the topic because I thought it was a very interesting idea, but I haven't written one since the "Slavemaster" thread about a couple of months back. I've just been busy with counseling and waiting for these new meds to work (I have ADHD), so I've been all over the place lately. So give it a shot if you want.

Thank you for the invite to contribute. I would love to. I just have to actually settle on one. Then keep focuses long enough to write it.

I have been going through posts as much as I can but I doubt I have even found 1/2 of the S.K. profiles here. As soon as I figure out who I want to write about and make sure they have not already been discussed I will give it a try.

Just be nice, I cry easily. LOL

(Joking)

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As soon as I figure out who I want to write about and make sure they have not already been discussed I will give it a try.

Before the end of the Week I'll write a thread about Richard Trenton Chase. ^_^

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Thank you for the invite to contribute. I would love to. I just have to actually settle on one. Then keep focuses long enough to write it.

I have been going through posts as much as I can but I doubt I have even found 1/2 of the S.K. profiles here. As soon as I figure out who I want to write about and make sure they have not already been discussed I will give it a try.

Just be nice, I cry easily. LOL

(Joking)

I don't think there have been too many threads just about one serial killer in particular. Looks like Jon pointed out the main ones to you already, so you should totally go for it. It's cool to have someone else who want to contribute.

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I don't think there have been too many threads just about one serial killer in particular. Looks like Jon pointed out the main ones to you already, so you should totally go for it. It's cool to have someone else who want to contribute.

K's right. HHH started Topics on Panzram and SlaveMaster, K started a topic about Chikatilo, I started a topic about Ridgway and Onoprienko, I think that's it, well if we talk about recent Threads of course. When I became a member of this forum back in July of 2009 the True Crime section of the Forum was dead, it was Ice cold. Then I started a Topic about Zodiac/Cheri Jo Bates, then HHH started the "Serial Killer of the Week" idea and since then The True Crimes section is alive and well. To me it's still one of the Best section of this forum. With great people like K, Triple H, Susie, Al, Druid and now you Lisa The True Crimes Section is really a great part of this Forum. Again don't be shy, you can create a new topic anytime you want.

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Very well said Liza. Because of their transient lifestyle, prostitutes do leave themselves open as easy prey for killers and are often chosen as a target. As far as race is concerned, if I remember correctly, the majority of Ridgeway's victims were Caucasian.

In all fairness.... Ridgeways stomping grounds were the Pacific Northwest. He personally didn't seem to care much about race, killing women who were white, black, native american, asian.... BUT, it's worthwhile to take into consideration that this is the PNW, the vast majority of people who lived here at that time were caucasian so the majority of his victims were caucasian as well. I bet if you broke it out, it would be representitive of the ethnic ratios of the area for that time.

These days, we're seeing more ethnic groups in the area, When I was in HS in the 80s, my HS had about 1500 kids -- like 4 black students, probably 20 asians, a couple of native americans, one Indian I can recall, one hispanic student I can remember... today, that same HS is a total melting pot with many many ethnicities. So things are changing here.... but back then, Seattle and area was White's-Ville.

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I am making my way through those serial killer threads slowly. I keep getting distracted by all the other posts here, oh, and shiny things! LOL

I have read some of the posts on the Zodiac and I loved them. I was a member of Tom's site for a while but I kind of drifted away.

I also got caught up in the post here on Elizabeth Short. I have a few books but I doubt it will be solved. I am also way too uninformed in her case to even suggest a viable suspect.

I will write a post but I need to hide all my shiny things, figure out who I want to write about and then actually stop reading for long enough to write!

Thank you guys for all of the encouragement!

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When I became a member of this forum back in July of 2009 the True Crime section of the Forum was dead, it was Ice cold.

If I'm not mistaken, this section didn't exist when I joined. :blink:

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If I'm not mistaken, this section didn't exist when I joined. :blink:

Well you became a member in 2004, I'm sure the actual forum have nothing in common with the forum back then. Back in 2009 we didn't had status update and things like that...Stormcrow, who was a member from 2004 to 2010 said to me once that The forum back then was entirely different, that's why she left, she said nothing was the same anymore.... :mellow:

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Well you became a member in 2004, I'm sure the actual forum have nothing in common with the forum back then. Back in 2009 we didn't had status update and things like that...Stormcrow, who was a member from 2004 to 2010 said to me once that The forum back then was entirely different, that's why she left, she said nothing was the same anymore.... :mellow:

Yeah, I know there were definitely no status updates. At some point I was away for a while and when I came back there were a lot of new sections like True Crime and Psych/philosophy. I remember being excited about it though. :P

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I did not have time to read all 5 pages on this guy but he was one of the creepiest killers out there and one of the most hard to catch. It wasn't until the DNA that they were able to make a positive ID on Ridgway. If I am wrong correct me, but didn't they have him a couple of times but not enough evidence to aresst? This is the problem with most serial killers. I think they are getting smarter and smarter. With so many crime sites on the internet telling anyone basicaly how to get away with a crime, it is getting hard to catch these guys. There are many tools that law enforcment use that they do not let the public know about but still it is hard to keep secrets these days. My husbands dad knew Gary Ridgway, he was freaked out a little when he was captured. Its a creepy feeling to find out that some one you know is out killing women as a hobby! I have met a few killers and one serial killer that I know of. This guy is the poster boy for wacko though! I can't give much info on him but I will tell you that he is the killer of my best friend. She was murdered about 8 years ago and they finally caught him through his DNA. There are at least 2 and possibly 3 more murders he is linked to. I am waiting to see how this turns out but the law is keeping hush right now so they can build their case stronger and find out if the guy has any more victims he wants to talk about. He is a true creeper! I once picked him up and threw him on the street during an aresst, he looked me in the eye and said he was going to find me and kill me, but I got that a lot from people so it did not even phaze me at the time. After they caught him I wonered why he did not come to my house and kill me like he said he would. Because I gaurantee he would not have left here alive. If he had come after me, my friend would still be alive. I miss her very much, she was the sweetest lady you could ever meet. Killers have always drawn peoples attention. We always want to know the gorey details even if it makes us sick to hear it. On fatal car accidents you see everyone who drives by looking to see the carnage, even the little old ladies! It's human nature so don't beat yourself up if you feel drawn to look. I really like this thread and with the amount of serial killers out there we won't run out of them any time soon!

Rocketgirl B)

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I'm sure I mentioned it in this thread, but it might have been the other one.... can't remember and way too lazy to look. LOL

My former boss (I'm in software and computers) was ON the Greenriver Task Force as an intern while he was working through college. He was part of the group that was developing the now nation wide used database for tracking evidence (since there was mountians of it in the GR case). Because he was an intern and doing the work for free, he had another paying job and worked WITH Rigdgeway at the Kennworh plant in Renton.

Basically, law enforcement knew Ridgeway was their killer from very early on... they just never had enough concrete evidence that they felt they could be 100% sure they could convict him on.

When they finally did have enough (after essentially tricking him for DNA), I can remember reading it on the local news online while I was at work and I called out from my office "Hey guys, they nailed the Green River Killer!" My boss shouted back from his office "So they FINALLY got Gary Ridgeway?" We all stood there gape mouthed at him and asking him how the hell he knew? LOL. Crazy crazy story. He always knew though, he'd kept it secret for over 10 years that they were sure they knew who was behind it all.

He said Ridgeway wasn't smart, wasn't "normal"... he was absolutely weird had very few or no friends. He was apparently quite creepy.

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I'm sure I mentioned it in this thread, but it might have been the other one.... can't remember and way too lazy to look. LOL

Yep, you mentioned it in another thread, perhaps the thread about SlaveMaster.

One of the first Suspect in the Green River case was Melvyn Foster, a Taxi driver.In September 1982, Foster contacted police about the first killings. A taxi driver on the SeaTac strip, he knew five of the victims. Police thought Foster fit the FBI psychological profile of the killer and put him under 24 hour surveillance for months and searched Foster's house in Lacey, WA, twice. October 1982, he called reporters, proclaimed his innocence and said police were harassing him. Later he volunteered to give a DNA sample. The sample did not match DNA evidence. Another suspect was William Stevens II. He was cleared in 1989.

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"Basically, law enforcement knew Ridgeway was their killer from very early on... they just never had enough concrete evidence that they felt they could be 100% sure they could convict him on. "

If you have anymore information please share! :yes:

Gary is still a suspect in a few more cases and some are in other states that have the Death Penalty.

There is still a chance that he could be executed, but it is a slim chance. Even if tried and convicted he will probably die of natural causes before his appeals run out.

"If I am wrong correct me, but didn't they have him a couple of times but not enough evidence to aresst?"

You are not wrong:

He had been pulled over a few times for crawling the 'right' areas. He was also seen and identified with victims.

"Less than a week after the incident, he, along with Malvar's father and brother, spotted the suspicious truck near the place where he initially lost sight of it days earlier. They followed the truck to a house located on South 348th Street and called the police. The police eventually arrived at the house and spoke with the owner, Gary Ridgway, who denied having ever seen Malvar. Satisfied, the police left the residence and failed to pursue the matter any further."

In the beginning months of 1987, investigators had a new suspect in relation to the Green River murders. Previously known to police, the newest suspect had been picked up for attempting to solicit an undercover police officer posing as a prostitute in May 1984. However, the man was released after he successfully passed a lie detector test. When investigators looked deeper into the man's past, they discovered that he had been accused of choking a prostitute in 1980 near the Sea-Tac International Airport. Yet, the man pleaded self-defense after claiming the woman bit him and he was soon after released from police custody.

Finally, on April 8, 1987, the police obtained a warrant and searched the man's house. According to the Seattle Times, the police also took "bodily samples" of the suspect so that they could compare them with the evidence they had from the Green River victims. However, there was insufficient evidence to arrest him and the man was released from police custody. The suspect was identified as Gary Ridgway

I think Gary Ridgeway's case is interesting since it is this case that seems to have really integrated all forms of profiling and made DNA sampling more important. This case had SO many errors, but they all do. I do think (hope) though that the mistakes made have been turned into learning tools. I think that since so many different forms of law enforcement were involved taking so many different paths there were jumps in profiling, forensics and different avenues of information. The task force that was formed (and reformed so many times), the computer programs that were developed and investigative processes that were explored have made big contributions to law enforcement.

I have not read his wife's book but I want to.

"Few family members of convicted serial killers have been willing to talk in detail, but those who have done so have offered valuable insight into the daily existence of such offenders. Judith, now divorced, not only agreed to participate in a book but has appeared on talk shows to try to describe just how ordinary, even wonderful, her relationship with Gary was. Even so, he did ultimately ruin her life, and she dedicates the book to "those who have had their futures stolen by deceitful lovers.""

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Edited by lisa z

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Thanks for the link Lisa, great post as always.

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Another possible victim found.

SEATTLE – Children playing in a ravine south of Seattle this week found the skull of a young mother who vanished nearly three decades ago and has long been thought to be a victim of Green River serial killer Gary Ridgway.

The King County Sheriff’s Office announced Thursday that dental records identified the remains as those of 20-year-old Rebecca “Becky” Marrero, who was last seen Dec. 3, 1982, as she left a motel room on Pacific Highway South.

It wasn’t immediately clear whether the King County prosecutor’s office planned to charge Ridgway with Marrero’s death.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/dec/24/dental-records-identify-skull-as-likely-green/

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Très bon JVE. Votre anglais est tres bon. Mon francais n'est pas tres bon. Je suis jaloux de votre capacité de langue!

-I hope that is right, been a while since I tried any french!

I'd like to point out, if it hasn't been already, that most of the victims were teenagers. Many of them were under 18... It is hard to believe that children (as they are still classed by the system and really still are) are being forced into a life of prostitution. Where have these girls gone wrong and why was society not able to protect them from entering the world's oldest profession?!

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They weren't all teenagers, but many of them were very young with children to support, a side-effect of the profession. Many were runaways that found prostitution an easy means of making a living. It's a sad result of young women who leave home on their own at such a young age.

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THE VICTIMS

Here is a list of Definitive Green River Killer victims. The numbers are the victims' ages.

Wendy Lee Coffield, 16. Gisele Ann Lovvorn, 17. Debra Lynn Bonner, 23.

Marcia Fay Chapman, 31. Cynthia Jean Hinds, 17. Opal Charmaine Mills, 16.

Terry Rene Milligan, 16. Mary Bridget Meehan, 18. Debra Lorraine Estes, 15.

Linda Jane Rule, 16. Denise Darcel Bush, 23. Shawnda Leea Summers, 16.

Shirley Marie Sherrill, 18. Colleen Renee Brockman, 15. Alma Ann Smith, 18.

Delores LaVerne Williams, 17. Gail Lynn Mathews, 23. Andrea M. Childers, 19.

Sandra Kay Gabbert, 17. Kimi-Kai Pitsor, 16. Marie M. Malvar, 18.

Carol Ann Christensen, 21. Martina Theresa Authorlee, 18. Cheryl Lee Wims, 18.

Yvonne "Shelly" Antosh, 19. Carrie Ann Rois, 15. Constance Eliz. Naon, 19.

Kelly Marie Ware, 22. Tina Marie Thompson, 21. April Dawn Buttram, 16.

Debbie May Abernathy, 26. Tracy Ann Winston, 19. Maureen Sue Feeney, 19.

Mary Sue Bello, 25. Pammy Annette Avent, 15. Delise Louise Plager, 22.

Kimberly L. Nelson, 21. Lisa Yates, 19. Mary Exzetta West, 16.

Cindy Anne Smith, 17. Patricia Michelle Barczak, 19. Roberta Hayes, 21.

Marta Reeves, 36. Patricia Yellowrobe, 38.

The other Four Victims are still Unidentified.

I count 30 teenagers :no: That would be why i said MOST were teens.

I think an effective way of preventing another case like this would be to protect young parents and girls. Surely our society can find ways to help young girls and mothers in need without making them resort to prostitution.

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Ann Rule's book Green River Running Red is a good read for this case as she knew all of the investigators. He actually killed a girl that he took home while her boyfriend/pimp followed them. When the girl never came back he took the girl's father back with him to find the house which they did. They confronted Gary and he denied everything.

He murdered her in his home. He also murdered a girl near the Sea-Tac airport while he had his young son with him. When the police asked him what he would have done if the boy hadn't stayed in the truck he told them he would have killed him too. That is one sick puppy.

Another good thread JVE.

ok thats so scary!

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Très bon JVE. Votre anglais est tres bon. Mon francais n'est pas tres bon. Je suis jaloux de votre capacité de langue!

-I hope that is right, been a while since I tried any french!

I'd like to point out, if it hasn't been already, that most of the victims were teenagers. Many of them were under 18...

Merci mon ami. Your french is actually really good, for a moment I tought I had found another french-Canadian member ! Thank you for the kind words. Well my english is far from being perfect, but I do the best I can. Thanks again. :tu:

You have a really good point about the age of the victims, like you said 30 of them were teenagers, however I don't think it was an important factor for Ridgway, but maybe it could have been, maybe he said to himself that younger girls, who don't have the " knowledge of the streets " like older women would, would make easier victims. I think he never gave a reason why most of the victims were really young, again I can be wrong, I'll have to go back and read some articles about the case to be sure.

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I knew they were young, but I didn't realize so many were that young. I should have read back through the thread. It makes sense that younger girls would be easier to lure than older, more experienced ones. That was how those kids made their money and they were kids. That makes the sense of loss even greater. Looking at the list, 17 of them were under the age of 18.

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Possible reasons that come to mind:

The younger girls were easier since they have the feeling of immortality still within them.

(Not a street thing, but an age thing. LOL)

The police hit the streets hard for a wile giving warnings and the older working girls began to be a little more careful.

Plus, I guess the younger the girls the prettier they were and of course Gary would have been more attracted to that.

He might also have been more "morally outraged" by the younger girls being out there. He might have figured that the younger girls were more 'corrupt' morally since they still had options that he did not think the older ones would have. (He did preach and protest about the local prostitutes.)

If anyone finds anything on this I would really love to know. I am sitting here making guesses but that is all that they are.

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