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striker7

JFK Assassination

509 posts in this topic

Given the several possible uses for the term "myopic", one might expect others to check the context before making such a criticism.

There are numerous online dictionaries you can use...please avail yourself.

You're on the edge, hacktorp.

Be careful!

It never fails, eventually. All JFK assassination threads seem to be musts for someone like you to come along and spout from their emotions rather than from their intellect.

Relax, if you're imnterested in surviving.

Edited by MID

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You're on the edge, hacktorp.

Be careful!

It never fails, eventually. All JFK assassination threads seem to be musts for someone like you to come along and spout from their emotions rather than from their intellect.

Relax, if you're imnterested in surviving.

Your puffery certainly has me on the edge of my seat. Hopefully my laughter won't carry me over...

Can we get back on topic?

I believe the next 50 years will bring general consensus as to the conspiracy of this case and in fact will identify the key players. Any that are left today will be gone soon.

Many who lived in the US at the time (but not in Dallas), strongly sensed that although Oswald and Ruby were dead, the 'rat' was still very much in the room. They were right.

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You're on the edge, hacktorp.

Be careful!

It never fails, eventually. All JFK assassination threads seem to be musts for someone like you to come along and spout from their emotions rather than from their intellect.

Relax, if you're imnterested in surviving.

I agree. Chill out man. Don't reply with emotion. Logic, my friend, logic. The Spock move.

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Thank you for the kind comments boonY. In actuality, I've seen all or fragments of the Zapruder film thousands of times since it's been available. In this case, no less than 10, looking ever-so-carefully for what should've been there, a decidedly forceful forward movement of the head as a 6mm bullet pierced through the skull from back to front.

If I sit there and imagine, I could see alot of movements in people or things, but all I really see is what's there, confirmed not only by the film, but by the ER physicians at Parkland that day, and by the police motorcycle officer riding to the left rear of the limousene, Officer Bobby Hargis, who's face shield was splattered by ennedy's brain and blood...something that culdn't have physically happened if the President were hit in the back of the head from behind and above.

Physicians treating the President described the massive occipital exit wound (large right rear skull wound). The film clearly shows a pronounced rearward motion of the head in response to the impulse received from the front. Not a convulsive maneuver, just a physically simple reaction, which had nothing to do with anything involuntary (Kennedy was basically dead on arrival at Parkland Hospital, Agonal respirations aside. He was gone. Convulsions don't tend to happen with damage like this. He was gone really close to instantly. It was just a matter of everything shutting down, or being shut down.

The film also clearly shows a piece of bone plopping on the car's trunk lid...and of course, Mrs. Kennedy getting out on that lid and reaching for it immediately. That was Occipital bone, the rear exit described by competent, experienced physicians at Parkland Hospital, including Dr. Kemp Clark, Chief of Neurosurgery at Parkland Hospital, and Chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery at the University of Texas, Southwestern Medical School.

We'll just say that the most qualified nerologic physicians in the region spoke clearlty about the wounds the President received in his head and brain. They conform exactly to what the Zapruder Film shows happened.

This isn't mystery stuff, or anything that's hidden from public view or public eyes. It's simple, really. You know, Parkland Hospital became the model for what we now typically see in cities nationwide, the TRAUMA CENTER. Parkland was one...the only ione at the time in the United States. These people were good, they were specialized, and they knew what they were doing, and what they were looking at. They all know rthat they were looking at a dead man in that emergency room that day, and, that's exactly what there was in that e.r. that day.

Excellent post MID. You have covered all the points. I would ask this question of boo and anyone else who does not accept that JFK's head wound was inflicted from the front. The blood and brain splatter on the windshield of the motorcycle escort to the behind and left of JFK's limo. Bobby Hargis.

To the left and behind.

If JFK received the fatal shot from the right rear, then why didn't blood and brains fly out to the right?

That magic bullet boo.

50 years on and still not making any sense.

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A reason for the head moving could be as simple as the vehicle was decreasing speed

Back to Oswald. You think Oswald was an unknown working smack bang in the intelligence community? How can you deny a CIA connection? CIA hire subcontractors, Bannister was a CiA subcontractor recruiting cuban exiles and arms for the bay of pigs.Ferrie a pilot would undoubtedly had been a arms and heroin mover for the CIA and Onassis Trafficante Mafia.

CIA are well known for there drug operations, the Vietnam War main purpose was to stop the Golden Triangle from the hands of the Russians. Same story in Afghanistan keeping the balance of power and control the Opium production today. Drug money pays for wars, arms deals, resistance,etc, etc. That same drug money funds both sides of war! Opium money most likely funded JFK' hail of bullets

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50 years on and the corrupt will continue covering up the corruption. Howard Hughes planes and Onassis Freighters shipped Trafficante drugs and arms. Trafficante wanted Cuba to make it what Las Vegas is today, CIA wanted Castro, CIA used Mafia connections for Bay of Pigs and Intelligence. CIA are corrupt, JFK calls to dismantle CIA and Federal Reserve Bank. Fed reserve well known for money laundering huge drug monies offshore.

JFK dead business is back to business as usual. Rothschild Rockafella and Royal England happy as pig in ****

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You're mistaken. His head initially jerks forward with the impact of the bullet. The forward movement is extremely subtle in comparison to the lurching convulsion backward which immediately follows, but despite that it is clearly visible to me, and it is not any kind of optical illusion resulting from him turning his head as you suggest.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Of course the bullet fully passed through. The fact that it impacted, or ricocheted if you prefer, against the interior of the skull on the way out is pedantic. And if you are suggesting that the bullet never even entered the skull, I'd be curious about why there were fragments of the projectile found embedded within the tissue as would be consistent with it passing from the entry wound in the back of the skull, through the cranial cavity, and exiting from the right front.

No, you are mistaken. I'm way beyond believing in subtle movements of JFK's head when his brains are being blown around so that Oswald as the lone gunman is the only solution.

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Thank you for the kind comments boonY. In actuality, I've seen all or fragments of the Zapruder film thousands of times since it's been available.

Thanks for the response MID, I do appreciate your complete thoughts on the question and will come back to this with more detail as time allows. I think perhaps my description of what I'm seeing isn't sufficient and may need a visual aid. That will take a bit of work, so I appreciate your patience as I take the time to do it as properly as I can with the tools I have available.

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No, you are mistaken.

All I can say at this point Antilles is that I see what I see. Clearly others see something else. It is a well documented fact that two people can look at the same thing and see different details, this could be as simple as that.

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President Kennedy was not as widely beloved while he was in office as is believed today. He barely beat Richard Nixon in the 1960 election. The day he was shot an ad appeared in a Dallas newspaper accusing him of treason. I forget what the reason was. It was after he was dead that the myth of his administation being a 'Camelot' was created. It had to do with the Vietnam War and Watergate. People lost faith in the government by the 1970s. They looked back to a time before all the protesting, all the scandals and the social upheaval of the 60s. That era ended about the time Kennedy was killed. He was the youngest person elected president of the US. Who knows what would have happened if he had lived. It's all a matter of what might have been.

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Kennedy was installed as president as a payback to his father. Joseph Kennedy was bootlegging alcohol and had associated with very influential people in big business, American politics and the mafia. John F Kennedy turned on these people that had him instated.

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Excellent post MID. You have covered all the points. I would ask this question of boo and anyone else who does not accept that JFK's head wound was inflicted from the front. The blood and brain splatter on the windshield of the motorcycle escort to the behind and left of JFK's limo. Bobby Hargis.

To the left and behind.

If JFK received the fatal shot from the right rear, then why didn't blood and brains fly out to the right?

That magic bullet boo.

50 years on and still not making any sense.

Thank you, Sir. :nw:

And you're right, there's no way Officer Hargis could've been spattered with blood and brain while he was left rear of the limo if the shot had been from the rear...any direction. :no:

I have always found the frontal head wound difficult to manufacture as an exit for such a shot (from above and behind to the right. The bullet would've blown the left frontal section of the head off on exit. Oh well. I guess anything stands 5 decades!

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Maybe MID could share his beliefs in who conspirated the murder of JFK being the expert on the topic! Being so quick to quash a CIA connection which even Garrison was onto with the CIA cover company Permindex. While he is quick to approve of a second shooter and a conspiracy. Howard E Hunt confessed to being a CIA bench men for the assassination, the same person that was part of the burglar team in the Watergate scandal. A second shooter removes a lone nut motive.

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Thank you, Sir. :nw:

And you're right, there's no way Officer Hargis could've been spattered with blood and brain while he was left rear of the limo if the shot had been from the rear...any direction. :no:

I have always found the frontal head wound difficult to manufacture as an exit for such a shot (from above and behind to the right. The bullet would've blown the left frontal section of the head off on exit. Oh well. I guess anything stands 5 decades!

DO I read this correctly Mid ? You say that theres no way a bullet shot from the 6th Floor downward to the street and entering JFK`s head at the read right cranial area then exiting out the Right Frontal skull as in the film is not correct? Fill me in on your Idea of what happened?maybe Im reading your explanation wrong?justDONTEATUS :tu:

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He believes the storm drain theory! The Fireball would have been the perfect rifle to firw in that confined space.

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He believes the storm drain theory! The Fireball would have been the perfect rifle to firw in that confined space.

...or resting atop a picket fence...

RemingtonXP-100.jpg

http://en.wikipedia....emington_XP-100

Edited by hacktorp

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The XP 100 Fireball .221 would be a candidate as the culprit of the throat wound!

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Maybe MID could share his beliefs in who conspirated the murder of JFK being the expert on the topic! Being so quick to quash a CIA connection which even Garrison was onto with the CIA cover company Permindex. While he is quick to approve of a second shooter and a conspiracy. Howard E Hunt confessed to being a CIA bench men for the assassination, the same person that was part of the burglar team in the Watergate scandal. A second shooter removes a lone nut motive.

Maybe he wouldn't because he knows, as does anyone who's ever studied the case in any detail, reviewed data, evidence, and the medical evidence in detail, that we have no idea who was involved, and never likely will. All that can be said, and that which certainly be agreed upon, is that there were indeed a couple shooters at the scene that day, possibly more, performing a professionally executed ambush murder. Jack Kennedy had a well placed frontal neck wound, and an upper back wound, as well as what appeared to be probably two head entry wounds, as illustrated by the beveling of bone in the occipital bone, and the beveling along the inner aspect of the parietal/temporal fragment.

I'm really a little bit irritated at the constant controversy over this situation. It's like a theory pops up around every corner, save that none of the protagonists seem to know about what is known...which is somewhat little.

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DO I read this correctly Mid ? You say that theres no way a bullet shot from the 6th Floor downward to the street and entering JFK`s head at the read right cranial area then exiting out the Right Frontal skull as in the film is not correct? Fill me in on your Idea of what happened?maybe Im reading your explanation wrong?justDONTEATUS :tu:

Hi D!

Yes, you're right, my friend.

A bullet, entering the right rear of the skull at a downward angle would most certainly have not exited the skull in what has been portrayed predominantly as right frontal exit.

Suc h a bullet woul've exited the lower central part of the face. Of course, we saw no such thing. No one did. It makes the "official story" seem a bit off, especially as every physician in the treatment room, and the film itself, indicate a predominantly frontal entry in that man's skull.

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I can only speak for me, but sometimes, it's just bewildering that people still take the Warren Commission's findings as it. The end. Finale.

Because they got it wrong.

2 shooters. Minimum.

And that makes it a conspiracy.

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I can only speak for me, but sometimes, it's just bewildering that people still take the Warren Commission's findings as it. The end. Finale.

Because they got it wrong.

2 shooters. Minimum.

And that makes it a conspiracy.

It's just hard for some folks to see the obvious sometimes.

My God, even the government said it themselves. It took years before they could organize to re-investigate, but they said a conspiracy happened.

It seems to be forgotten, but it did happen!

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Hi D!

Yes, you're right, my friend.

A bullet, entering the right rear of the skull at a downward angle would most certainly have not exited the skull in what has been portrayed predominantly as right frontal exit.

Suc h a bullet woul've exited the lower central part of the face. Of course, we saw no such thing. No one did. It makes the "official story" seem a bit off, especially as every physician in the treatment room, and the film itself, indicate a predominantly frontal entry in that man's skull.

THis is why so many people stick with the multi-shooter idea ! THe video when looked at over,& over to infinity will not tell what really happened that day in Dallas,but Theres a man that has spent his entire life trying to tell his story down at Dealy Plaza and has benn arrested more times than you can count .

Ive talked to him on many occasions taking relitives and friends on tour there,They all just love the mysteries around this case. As do I.

There have been many times and stories about a massive cover up ! THis is no different than the UFO cover ups that so many believe in !

After my encounter my sighting I can tell you I dont care what most people think, Like the JFK case I too think something is a bit fishy !

But we will always agree on the quality of your opinion,and research skills ! I have heard and seen a few of the letters that were in the Jack Ruby case during the time my mom was working with the law firm its did seem quite hush,HUSH!

Cheers Mid lets get on with our mission ! :tu:

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Thank you for the kind comments boonY. In actuality, I've seen all or fragments of the Zapruder film thousands of times since it's been available. In this case, no less than 10, looking ever-so-carefully for what should've been there, a decidedly forceful forward movement of the head as a 6mm bullet pierced through the skull from back to front.

Thanks for the response MID, I do appreciate your complete thoughts on the question and will come back to this with more detail as time allows. I think perhaps my description of what I'm seeing isn't sufficient and may need a visual aid. That will take a bit of work, so I appreciate your patience as I take the time to do it as properly as I can with the tools I have available.

Again, thanks for the well thought and informed response from before. I also appreciate your statements to hacktorp by the way. It's always better if we can maintain a respectful dialog, so thanks for that.

As mentioned a few times before, I agree that forensics and other aspects of this are important, including the question of how spatter may have found its way onto the face shield of Officer Bobby Hargis. For the time being though I'm more interested in what the footage shows. Hopefully we can reach agreement on what we are seeing.

I've taken two frames from the Zapruder footage to show what appears to be forward motion of the head at the time of initial impact. These are frames 312, immediately before the shot, and 313, the first frame after or during the shot. Due to the graphic nature of the images, I've enclosed them in spoiler tags below.

In order to animate the two together with a GIF, I've had to desaturate the source images. When done in full original color the image becomes almost impossible to see with any clarity.

headmovesforward_900x500_2frames_black_n_white_closeup.gif

To see the same without the desaturation, these two images can be opened in any picture viewer and toggled back and forth:

z312

z313

In stabilizing between these two images, I've moved z313 to the left as far as can be reasonably done. I think that it should actually be moved to the right a few pixels for a more accurate rendering, but I didn't want there to be any kind of impression that I was trying to move it to the right and 'simulate' a forward head motion. Even though I've moved it so far to the left, the forward motion of the head is still markedly distinct. If I moved it to the right where I believe it would be more accurate, the forward head motion is even more pronounced.

To me the forward motion is quite clear despite the blurring in frame 313.

If you disagree, please explain why, in reference to the footage only.

And if you agree, how could the head be moving forward like that as the bullet impacts if he was shot from the front?

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THis is why so many people stick with the multi-shooter idea ! THe video when looked at over,& over to infinity will not tell what really happened that day in Dallas,but Theres a man that has spent his entire life trying to tell his story down at Dealy Plaza and has benn arrested more times than you can count .

Ive talked to him on many occasions taking relitives and friends on tour there,They all just love the mysteries around this case. As do I.

There have been many times and stories about a massive cover up ! THis is no different than the UFO cover ups that so many believe in !

After my encounter my sighting I can tell you I dont care what most people think, Like the JFK case I too think something is a bit fishy !

But we will always agree on the quality of your opinion,and research skills ! I have heard and seen a few of the letters that were in the Jack Ruby case during the time my mom was working with the law firm its did seem quite hush,HUSH!

Cheers Mid lets get on with our mission ! :tu:

Roger all, D. And thanks to you!

M

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Well, I read through this thread and saw no mention of those who were responsible, though not confirmed. In September 1963 Oswald was in Mexico City meeting with three senior KGB/GRU officers, much too senior to meet with Oswald if he were not important to them. This has been told by the one survivor, Oleg Nechiporenko. The other two were Pavel Yatskov and Valery Kostikov. Kostikov probably received his orders from the then head of the GRU, Ivan Serov, who may have been running the GRU for his own purposes and not under Kremlin control, though unknown to them. Kostikov had two backers, Yuri Andropov (Future President) and Vladimir Kryuchkov (One of the August 1991 putsch plotters). It seems that Serov had a major grudge against Khrushchev about the Cuba fiasco and wanted to take revenge on USA by assasinating JFK. Of course this could be a case of mis-information to create a defence of "plausible deniability", the damaging admission that head of GRU was waging private war, being better than nuclear war. Oswald was not the perfect assasin, but you have to work with what you have. To me, the conspiracy was never in USA, it was with rogue elements of KGB/GRU

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