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striker7

JFK Assassination

509 posts in this topic

bill hicks was such a remarkable man... how long shall they kill our prophets while we stand aside and look??

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Why would it be?

Because Oswald was a truely awful shooter...

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Because Oswald was a truely awful shooter...

Nope.

Oswalds military marksmanship records

He was rated a Marksman on one course, and a Sharpshooter on another.

He was definitely not a an expert shot, but he was above average by military standards, which would be a far sight above "average joe" standards.

No matter what Oliver Stove would have us believe to sell movie tickets.

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Nope.

Oswalds military marksmanship records

He was rated a Marksman on one course, and a Sharpshooter on another.

He was definitely not a an expert shot, but he was above average by military standards, which would be a far sight above "average joe" standards.

No matter what Oliver Stove would have us believe to sell movie tickets.

Alright, so he may have been a good shooter. Still, unless he could change the laws of physics, I would loved to see how he pulled off the killing shot. Because i'm sure the army would love a way to make bullets do 180 degree turns in mid air...

Edited by beale947

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...Because i'm sure the army would love a way to make bullets do 180 degree turns in mid air...

hehe totally man :tu:

Edited by SolarPlexus

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Alright, so he may have been a good shooter. Still, unless he could change the laws of physics, I would loved to see how he pulled off the killing shot. Because i'm sure the army would love a way to make bullets do 180 degree turns in mid air...

The killing shot was a straight shot to the back of Kennedy's head. I think you're referring to the "magic bullet", which was the second shot fired, which passed through Kennedy and into Connolly.

Oliver Stone wants us to believe that Kennedy and Connolly were sitting at the same height and directly in-line with each other, both facing straight forward. That's not correct. Kennedy was sitting three inches higher and to the right of Connolly, and Connolly was turned on angle when the second bullet hit them both.

This is an excellent computer-simulated re-enactment of the shot:

Go to the 3:00 mark to see the "magic bullet" discussed.

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The killing shot was a straight shot to the back of Kennedy's head. I think you're referring to the "magic bullet", which was the second shot fired, which passed through Kennedy and into Connolly.

Oliver Stone wants us to believe that Kennedy and Connolly were sitting at the same height and directly in-line with each other, both facing straight forward. That's not correct. Kennedy was sitting three inches higher and to the right of Connolly, and Connolly was turned on angle when the second bullet hit them both.

This is an excellent computer-simulated re-enactment of the shot:

Go to the 3:00 mark to see the "magic bullet" discussed.

Cant believe people are gullible enough to believe a magic bullet theory. insult to human intelligence. If JFK Assassination was such a easy open shut case Oswald being the sole assassin, why are all the files secretly locked away? Its obvious there's more to it. When all the information does get revealed i'll be happy to say i wont be one of the fooled ones!

Edited by tribalactivity

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That explains nothing...I am refering to the fact that he was shot through the front of his head. You can see the back of his head explode outwards as the bullet exits his head. The exit wound of a bullet in my experience, is very, very similar to what you see in the film.

So tell me, how does Oswald pull that off? I have seen that type of injury/cause of death before.

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That explains nothing...I am refering to the fact that he was shot through the front of his head. You can see the back of his head explode outwards as the bullet exits his head. The exit wound of a bullet in my experience, is very, very similar to what you see in the film.

So tell me, how does Oswald pull that off? I have seen that type of injury/cause of death before.

I think that the head exploding opposite of the bullet is a easily explained. The car was moving so the wind kind of kept the explosion of the head where it happened. Sort of like when you throw something out of a moving car, it stays pretty much where you threw it, unless it is a rock or something like that. But brain matter isn't a rock obviously.

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Cant believe people are gullible enough to believe a magic bullet theory. insult to human intelligence. If JFK Assassination was such a easy open shut case Oswald being the sole assassin, why are all the files secretly locked away? Its obvious there's more to it. When all the information does get revealed i'll be happy to say i wont be one of the fooled ones!

I can't tell if you agree with me or are insulting me here.

I don't believe in the magic bullet theory either.

And "all" the files aren't secretly locked away, either, as far as I know.

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That explains nothing...I am refering to the fact that he was shot through the front of his head. You can see the back of his head explode outwards as the bullet exits his head. The exit wound of a bullet in my experience, is very, very similar to what you see in the film.

So tell me, how does Oswald pull that off? I have seen that type of injury/cause of death before.

Every time I see the Zapruder film, I see the front of Kennedy's head explode outward, not the back. Not sure what you're getting at here, but you've moved the goalposts three times in three posts.

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So the pointing out of the different flaws in the whole thing is 'moving the goal post?' The back of his head explodes, now there is an 'explosion' at the front of his head, but that is the entry point.

I know the difference between those injuries, having done experiments and seen dead bodies with those injuries.

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captobvious-738633.jpg

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Do you believe that the JFK Assassination is one of the biggest conspiracy theories in the US?

Why has this event gripped the nation for so long?

because of all the evidence pointing towards a conspiracy

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because of all the evidence pointing towards a conspiracy

Untrue.

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What I find interesting and casts a shadow on the official story isn't the assassination of JFK but that of Jack Ruby/stien. Police first said that they thought that Jack Ruby was just another cia agent or secret service agent. They then state that many recognized Jack as a local well known strip club owner in Dallas well known to the police and that they did nothing to question his presence where Oswald got shot. Jack well known to police a strip club owner saddened to the point of murder over JFK, I don't think so. Oswalds death was a hit that was allowed to happen.

Wow! We agree on something! :blink:

Actually, the gun was a pretty decent rifle and Oswald was a very good marksman.

Oswald was a passable rifle shot, not what any military person would actually consider good enough to be a sniper. I consistently fired a high scoring "Sharpshooter" or low scoring "Expert", and would still basically have to trust blind luck to hit a moving target with a single-shot rifle. Snipers who can manage that with any degree of regularity are rare and highly trained professionals.

Yup Oswald was not only experienced, but tried to assassinate a US general before !

And FAILED!

Nope.

Oswalds military marksmanship records

He was rated a Marksman on one course, and a Sharpshooter on another.

He was definitely not a an expert shot, but he was above average by military standards, which would be a far sight above "average joe" standards.

No matter what Oliver Stove would have us believe to sell movie tickets.

A Marskman is the LOWEST passing score a soldier/Marine can score and still qualify. Sharpshooter is definitely a better shot, but basically it means you can hit a stationary target with a properly sighted rifle at distances up to 400 meters. STATIONARY target! With a particular rifle, for Marines namely an M-1 Garand at that time Oswald would have been qualifying. That you can fire "Sharpshooter" with an M-1 makes you a passable Marine, not a sniper capable of firing multiple shots in a short time with a bad rifle. Edited by IamsSon

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A Marskman is the LOWEST passing score a soldier/Marine can score and still qualify. Sharpshooter is definitely a better shot, but basically it means you can hit a stationary target with a properly sighted rifle at distances up to 400 meters. STATIONARY target! With a particular rifle, for Marines namely an M-1 Garand at that time Oswald would have been qualifying. That you can fire "Sharpshooter" with an M-1 makes you a passable Marine, not a sniper capable of firing multiple shots in a short time with a bad rifle.

Understood. Would agree that a military grade Marksman is a better shot than the average citizen? This is my point.

Also, what do you believe? Did Oswald shoot at all?

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Understood. Would agree that a military grade Marksman is a better shot than the average citizen? This is my point.

Sure, but is that really any kind of standard to consider someone a possible assassin in this case?
Also, what do you believe? Did Oswald shoot at all?
There is evidence which seems to indicate Oswald was not at the window at the time of the shooting:
On the morning of the assassination, a number of Depository employees had been putting down flooring on the sixth floor. About 15 minutes before noon, these employees decided to break for lunch. Going to the northeast corner of the building, they began to "race" the elevators down to the first floor. On their way down, they noticed Oswald standing at the elevator gate on the fifth floor (6H349), where he was shouting for an elevator to descend (3H168; 6H337).

We should recall that when Oswald was seen on the fifth floor at about 11:45, he was shouting for an elevator to take him down. Apparently this is exactly the course Oswald pursued, if not by elevator, then by the stairs. Bill Shelley was part of the floor-laying crew that left the sixth floor around 11:45. He testified unambiguously that after coming down for lunch he saw Oswald on the first floor near the telephones (7H390). Mention of this fact is entirely absent from the Report.

The Commission knew of at least two employees who had seen Oswald on the first floor between 12:00 and 12:30. It suppressed this information from the Report, lied in saying that no one had seen Oswald during this time, and cited an incomplete and irrelevant inquiry in support of this drastic misstatement.

Depository employee Eddie Piper was questioned twice by Assistant Counsel Joseph Ball. During one of his appearances, Piper echoed the information he had recorded in an affidavit for the Dallas Police on November 23, 1963, namely, that he saw and spoke with Oswald on the first floor at 12:00 noon (6H383; l9H499). Piper seemed certain of this, and he was consistent in reporting the circumstances around his brief encounter with Oswald. Clearly, this is a direct contradiction of the Report's statement that no one saw Oswald between 11:55 and 12:30. The Report, never mentioning this vital piece of testimony, calls Piper a "confused witness" (R153). This too was the opposite of the truth. Piper was able to describe events after the shooting in a way that closely paralleled the known sequence of events (6H385). There was, in fact, no aspect of Piper's testimony that indicated he was less than a credible witness.

While Piper's having seen Oswald on the first floor at 12:00 does not preclude Oswald's having been at the window at 12:30, it is significant that this information was suppressed from the Report, which makes an assertion contrary to the evidence. One aspect of Piper's story could have weighed heavily in Oswald's defense. In his November 23 affidavit, Piper recalled Oswald as having said "I'm going up to eat" during the short time the two men met (19H499). In his testimony, Piper modified this quotation, expressing his uncertainty whether Oswald had said "up" or "out" to eat (6H386). Despite the confusion over the exact adverb Oswald used, the significant observation is that he apparently intended to eat at 12:00. He would most likely have done this on the first floor in the "domino" room or in the second-floor lunchroom. Oswald consistently told the police that he had been eating his lunch at the time the President was shot (R600, 613). The suppression of Piper's story was, in effect, the suppression of an aspect of Oswald's defense.

Source

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Sure, but is that really any kind of standard to consider someone a possible assassin in this case?

Of course not. The poster I was speaking to said Oswald was "truly a terrible shot", and I presented evidence to the contrary. That's all.

There is evidence which seems to indicate Oswald was not at the window at the time of the shooting:

From what I'm reading here - no one could account for Oswald's whereabouts after 12:00. But shots were fired at 12:30. I don't find the fact he was calling out for the elevator to go down at 11:45 from the fifth floor to be terribly unusual. I would imagine he would want to create an alibi for himself.

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Of course not. The poster I was speaking to said Oswald was "truly a terrible shot", and I presented evidence to the contrary. That's all.

For a sniper he was a truly "terrible shot." That's why I said that using an average civilian is not a good standard. We're talking about someone who hit a moving target several times; even a trained sniper would struggle under those circumstances.
From what I'm reading here - no one could account for Oswald's whereabouts after 12:00. But shots were fired at 12:30. I don't find the fact he was calling out for the elevator to go down at 11:45 from the fifth floor to be terribly unusual. I would imagine he would want to create an alibi for himself.

Bill Shelley was part of the floor-laying crew that left the sixth floor around 11:45. He testified unambiguously that after coming down for lunch he saw Oswald on the first floor near the telephones (7H390). Mention of this fact is entirely absent from the Report.

Piper echoed the information he had recorded in an affidavit for the Dallas Police on November 23, 1963, namely, that he saw and spoke with Oswald on the first floor at 12:00 noon (6H383; l9H499).

Additionally, there is the testimony from the first police officer at the book depository which puts Oswald at the lunch room in the second floor less than two minutes after the last shot was fired. Source

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For a sniper he was a truly "terrible shot." That's why I said that using an average civilian is not a good standard. We're talking about someone who hit a moving target several times; even a trained sniper would struggle under those circumstances.

I really don't believe Oswald would have to qualify as a sniper to make the kill shot. Keep in mind it did take him three tries to be successful. I would think an average shot by military standards wouldn't have a problem hitting the target less than 140 feet away. That's less than one half of a football field.

You keep bringing up this moving target subject. The motorcade was traveling away from Oswald at what? 5 to 10 mph? This isn't exactly like trying to hit a race car. And it wasn't even moving laterally in Oswald's scope - it was moving away.

Additionally, there is the testimony from the first police officer at the book depository which puts Oswald at the lunch room in the second floor less than two minutes after the last shot was fired. Source

I'm still not seeing anything in there that says someone saw Oswald after 12:00 noon and before the shootings. The shots were fired 30 minutes after that. Plenty of time to go up to the 6th floor and set up.

And how hard would it be to go down 4 flights in two minutes? Of course he wanted to get down there as quickly as possible so he could create another alibi. 4 flights in two minutes is hardly unattainable.

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Peter Levenda has a lot to say about this in his Sinister Forces triligoy. I had been on the fence about this topic until I read this series.

There is just way too much synchronicity tying it all together i feel it impossible to be as simple as a one man job.

There are so many layers of the onion to peel away it never seems to end. I'm not sure at this point anyone really knows the full story.

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I really don't believe Oswald would have to qualify as a sniper to make the kill shot. Keep in mind it did take him three tries to be successful. I would think an average shot by military standards wouldn't have a problem hitting the target less than 140 feet away. That's less than one half of a football field.

You keep bringing up this moving target subject. The motorcade was traveling away from Oswald at what? 5 to 10 mph? This isn't exactly like trying to hit a race car. And it wasn't even moving laterally in Oswald's scope - it was moving away.

Have you ever fired a rifle? Have you ever fired at a moving target?
I'm still not seeing anything in there that says someone saw Oswald after 12:00 noon and before the shootings. The shots were fired 30 minutes after that. Plenty of time to go up to the 6th floor and set up.

And how hard would it be to go down 4 flights in two minutes? Of course he wanted to get down there as quickly as possible so he could create another alibi. 4 flights in two minutes is hardly unattainable.

The testimony shows he was seen on the first floor at noon or shortly after. Did you read the information presented? He was not only downstairs, he was in a room and in a location in the room which would have required him to come into the room from the 1st floor, less than 90 seconds after the last shot and was not looking agitated or out of breath. Edited by IamsSon

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