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striker7

JFK Assassination

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.. i just keep wondering how three, or two, or a single bullet according to some made so many holes in two people .

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.. i just keep wondering how three, or two, or a single bullet according to some made so many holes in two people .

And I'm wondering how a shot that supposedly came from the front made his head initially move forward.

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My personal view is that she wanted the hell out of there. And I'm not putting her down by any means. I don't blame her at all.

I believe the story about reaching for parts of his brain and skull came later as she tried to rationalise her actions to herself and the world.

But there must have been a millisecond when he fell into her lap and she saw what had happened that her self preservation kicked in and she thought I'm next.

No Secret Service to protect her so consciously or unconsciously she tried to get to Clint Hill.

JMO.

I always thought she was scrambling to get away.

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Where do you think Jackie was scrambling to?

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when i see that film footage , it looks to me as if she is frantically telling him,over the noise of the crowd, that something is wrong! or that 'jack' had been shot! .. something like that..

"back and to the left" "back and to the left" "back and to the left"

Edited by lightly

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Even if Oswald can somehow be proven to be in on it, it is impossible to prove that he did it alone, esp since there is overwhelming evidence of a conspiracy. Anyone who tells you that it's been proven that he did it alone has to be a shill, operative, or has a vested interest.

Lots of insiders and whistleblowers have come out confessing their knowledge of the conspiracy to kill JFK, including LBJ's mistress, lawyer, and Oswald's girlfriend. Here is a list that I compiled in my report:

http://www.debunking...onspiracies.htm

There are whistleblowers and confessions from insiders about the Kennedy assassination. Thus, the question of "Why hasn't anyone talked?" is wrong because insiders have. Here are some noteworthy examples.

E Howard Hunt, CIA operative for Nixon and Watergate conspirator

E Howard Hunt, a long time intelligence CIA officer who worked for Nixon and orchestrated the Watergate burglary, gave a deathbed confession to his son Saint John, before died about his involvement and knowledge of the JFK assassination and who else was behind it. The confession was taped and can be found on YouTube. It was also featured in Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" in an episode about the JFK assassination, which you can find on YouTube as well.

Wikipedia reports this confession on their website:

http://en.wikipedia....tions_and_death

"Late JFK conspiracy allegations and death

During the last few years and months of Hunt's life, he made several claims about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, as reported by his son Saint John Hunt. In audio recordings, discussions and writings, Hunt said (according to his son) that he and several others were involved in a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy.[55] He said the codename the conspirators gave for the operation was "The Big Event," and that Vice- President Lyndon B. Johnson ordered the assassination and assigned Cord Meyer to implement the details. Meyer recruited the people who planned and carried out the killing, including David Phillips, Frank Sturgis, David Morales, William Harvey, a French gunman, and Lucien Sarti, who worked for the Mafia.[55][56]

Hunt died on January 23, 2007 in Miami, Florida of pneumonia[57][58] and is buried in Prospect Lawn Cemetery, Hamburg, New York. Hunt's memoir American Spy: My Secret History in the CIA, Watergate, and Beyond was published by John Wiley & Sons in March 2007.[59]"

Madeleine Duncan Brown, mistress of LBJ

Lyndon Johnson's long time mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, reported that on the eve of the assassination, at a party LBJ told her, “After tomorrow, those Kennedys will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise!” This corroborates E Howard Hunt’s confession that LBJ was in on it and a connecting point in the plot. You can hear her testimony on YouTube. She wrote a book about her long time affair with LBJ called “Texas in the Morning: The Love Story of Madeleine Brown and President Lyndon Baines Johnson”.

More info:

http://www.informati...n.com/?id=15167

http://www.21stcentu...presidents.html

http://www.reformati...on-johnson.html

Barr McClellan, attorney for LBJ

Barr McClellan, Lyndon Johnson’s attorney, reported that LBJ likely masterminded the plot to kill JFK, and in fact, had a long history of having people killed who were a danger and threat to him, using his friend and hitman Malcolm Wallace. In fact, LBJ even had his sister Josefa killed because she threatened to expose his crimes. McClellan wrote a book about this called "Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK".

In fact, Malcolm Wallace's fingerprints were found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Depository on boxes at the crime scene where Oswald was accused of having shot President Kennedy from. In 1998, Nathan Darby, America's foremost and most experienced expert on fingerprint examination, matched an unknown fingerprint taken at the crime scene with that of Malcolm Wallace’s fingerprint card. Darby said that the 34 point match made it a certainty. When the Dallas police brought this evidence to the FBI, they said nothing for a year and then denied the match. Does that tell you that the FBI is interested in truth?

For more info:

http://www.viewzone.com/lbj/

Interview with Barr McClellan:

http://news.findlaw....2003174656.html

Also see episode 9 of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" by the History Channel which features McClellan, available on YouTube.

Billie Sol Estes, legendary Texas wheeler dealer

A Texas agriculture millionaire and wheeler dealer named Billie Sol Estes, who had connections to LBJ, testified to LBJ’s long string of murders and hits, which included LBJ’s sister Josefa Johnson and President Kennedy. After being convicted of fraudulent schemes, his lawyer Douglas Caddys stated in a letter that Estes was willing to testify in court about the list of people LBJ ordered killed by his hitman Malcolm Wallace. That letter has now become public record. Here is a copy below:

http://home.earthlin...floor/estes.htm

Joseph Milteer tapes

On November 9, 1963, the Miami police taped a conversation between one of their informants, William Somerset and a wealthy right-wing extremist named Joseph Adams Milteer. On the tape, Milteer revealed his knowledge of a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy ("in the working") from a "building with a high powered rifle". You can listen to the tape on YouTube, or see a transcript of it at: http://www.maryferre...-Somersett_Tape

YouTube audio tape and Fox news report on the Milteer tapes:

Judyth Vary Baker, girlfriend of Lee Oswald

Judyth Vary Baker came out publicly in 2003 and revealed herself to be Lee Oswald’s mistress. She testified that Oswald loved Kennedy, that both she and Oswald worked for US intelligence, and that he was framed. According to KomoNews:

http://www.komonews....-180258521.html

“I can assure you that Lee Harvey Oswald loved President Kennedy," said Judyth Vary Baker, who dated Oswald. "He wasn't the president's assassin."

Baker was just 19-years old and working on cancer research when she met and fell in love with Oswald.

"We were immediately attracted to each other," she said. "He was only 23."

Baker said they soon became lovers, and later she learned the cancer project she was working on was to develop a biological weapon to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro.

She claims Oswald confided in her.

"I learned that he was a spy in Russia for the U.S.," she said.

Now 70 years old, Baker is in Seattle to promote her new book, called "Me and Lee: How I came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald."

In the book, she describes bonding with Oswald over chess and a love of Russian literature.

She insists Oswald entered an assassination group trying to kill Castro and encountered elements that loathed America's president as much as Cuba's.

She said Oswald called her 37 hours before the Kennedy assassination, suggesting he was going to be framed.

"He said, 'I'm afraid I've told you too much and your life might be in danger,'" she said.

Two days later, Baker said she watched her lover gunned down on television.

"I wanted to kill myself," she said.

Baker said she's not a conspiracy theorist and insists she's paid a price for sharing her past.”

Baker wrote a widely-acclaimed book about her relationship with Oswald called “Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald” which you can get on Amazon.com or her website: http://www.meandlee.com or her blog: http://judythbaker.blogspot.com

More info about her here:

http://doctormarysmo...b/documents.htm

Since then, Baker has been the target of online smear campaigns to discredit her and erase her testimony, which has forced her to live in exile overseas. For more on that, see here: http://jamesfetzer.b...g-in-exile.html

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Let’s compare the motives and reasons of the power elite network for getting rid of JFK vs. that of Lee Oswald, and see which is more plausible and makes more sense, shall we? This should help you see the bigger picture.

http://www.debunking...onspiracies.htm

Motives for killing JFK: The Power Elite vs. Lee Oswald

The Military Industrial Complex

Being the biggest industry in the world with 60 billion in assets, this gigantic Frankenstein monster that was propped up after WWII and all its subcontractors, had a huge profit interest in the Vietnam War. Before leaving office, President Eisenhower warned about them in his speech. On January 17, 1961, in his farewell address to the nation, Eisenhower spoke to the country, and to his successor, John Kennedy:

"The conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex."

This industry badly wanted the Vietnam War. Huge profits were at stake for them. But Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam and issued orders to begin withdrawing troops. He refused to sell out to the biggest industry in America by starting an unnecessary war for profit that would cost many lives. He had too much of a conscience to do that. Thus he stood in the way of a gigantic monster machine.

Lyndon Baines Johnson

LBJ knew that he was going to be dropped from the ticket in the next election and may even be prosecuted for his crimes and scandals. So rather than become President, he would end up in jail. The Kennedys didn’t like him and Robert Kennedy wanted to prosecute him as Attorney General. LBJ was never going get another chance to become President if Kennedy wasn’t out of the way.

His mistress Madeleine Duncan Brown testified that he either knew of the plot or was a part of it, and his lawyer Barr McClellan said he was certain that LBJ was in on the plot, and in fact had a history of having people killed, including his own sister Josefa, who got in his way or threatened to expose him, using his hitman and friend Malcolm Wallace. This was further corroborated by Texas agricultural tycoon Billy Sol Estes. (See the section on whistleblowers)

Thus, if LBJ had others killed in the past, it makes him more likely to do the same with President Kennedy. In short, LBJ had a self-defense motive as well as a benefit in becoming President.

J Edgar Hoover, FBI director

He wanted to be FBI director for life, but Kennedy wanted to fire him because he was corrupt and could not be trusted. Hoover had a file on everyone in government and could use it to blackmail them into doing what he wanted.

The CIA

Kennedy said that he wanted to “smash the CIA into a thousand pieces” because they were criminal and out of control. And he planned to do so after the next election. The CIA tried to deceive him into starting a war with Cuba with the Bay of Pigs fiasco. When Kennedy found out, he was furious and fired Allen Dulles and thwarted the CIA’s Bay of Pigs operation. The CIA was furious and decided they had enough of Kennedy. And since Kennedy wanted to destroy them, the CIA had a self-defense motive as well.

The Federal Reserve and Banking Elite

The banking elite are the most powerful group in America. On June 4, 1963, President Kennedy signed Executive Order 11110, which halted the Federal Reserve’s ability to print money out of thin air, backed by nothing, to loan to the Federal government and charge interest on it. Instead, he gave the US Treasury the power to print interest-free currency (silver certificates) backed by silver, which would eventually replace the Federal Reserve notes and eliminate the national debt. This would have usurped the Fed and the banking elite that controlled it. They could not accept this, since in their minds, they owned America by controlling its money supply, and could buy off anyone, except President Kennedy. In their mind “No one messes with the Fed.” Since then, every President has not dared to mess with them.

In fact, President Abraham Lincoln was probably also taken out for the same reason when he issued interest-free Greenbacks for US currency, which would have also usurped the central banks’ power. After that, President Garfield was also assassinated after taking similar steps to stop the government from borrowing money at interest from private central bankers. After the American Revolution, the central bank also attempted to assassinate President Andrew Jackson twice for destroying them, but miraculously failed both times. It would seem that the central banks have no qualms about getting rid of anyone, including the President of the United States, who stands in their way. Could it just be a coincidence that every President who has tried to usurp the Fed and central private banks’ control over the economy has met an untimely demise at the hands of a “lone nut” (except for Andrew Jackson)? You gotta wonder.

The Mob

The mob had a survival interest in offing Kennedy. They felt betrayed because they contributed greatly to Kennedy’s campaign in 1960 which gave him the edge to win over Nixon. In return, Bobby Kennedy prosecuted them and aimed to end their existence, which Jack Kennedy allowed. With their existence at stake, it became a matter of survival and self-defense for them.

The Oil Industry

Kennedy wanted to do away with the oil depletion allowance, which big oil barons in Texas were using as an unfair tax loophole. It is estimated that the proposed removal of the oil depletion allowance would result in a loss of around $300 million a year to Texas oilmen.

VS.

Lee Oswald

In contrast to the above interests, Lee Oswald was not threatened by Kennedy in any way. He did not even dislike Kennedy, but according to his mistress Judyth Baker, liked him (see her testimony in the whistleblower section). And if he wanted justice for Cuba, being an advocate of “Fair Play for Cuba”, he would have blamed the CIA for attacking Cuba, not President Kennedy for preserving the peace.

Oswald’s only alleged motive, according to his accusers, was that he was tired of being a nobody and wanted to become famous for something – namely by assassinating the President of the United States. (Why not pick someone you hate instead?) Geez. I guess this motive makes more sense than those of the power network groups above huh? Not! (though Gerald Posner, Vince Bugliosi and John McAdams would have you believe otherwise) Out of all the ways that one can become famous, including doing something good, he just had to pick that one. And in doing so, he caused the Vietnam War, national debt, made all the powerful groups above happy, and caused the American people to lose trust in their government. Geez. How plausible is that?

What’s the verdict?

Well there you have it. Now ask yourself: Which of the motives above is plausible and likely and which isn’t? Which makes more sense? If you can see the obvious big picture, then you gotta wonder: If this is so painfully obvious, why would anyone believe with a religious conviction that only Oswald alone was involved in JFK’s assassination? (Posner, Bugliosi, McAdams) Could it be because they are a shill, operative, have a vested interest, or be part of the controlled media?

Immediate results and effects of the assassination reveal the intentions

In fact, just look at the RESULTS and effects that immediately followed the JFK assassination, and you will see that they reveal the intentions: Four days into office, Lyndon Johnson reversed Kennedy’s order to withdraw from Vietnam and instead escalated a massive buildup of troops for a full scale war, which erupted after the US staged the Gulf of Tonkin Incident which turned out never happened. LBJ also halted Kennedy’s executive order 11110 which was going to strip the power of the Fed, giving full control of currency back to them. He also reinstated the Oil Depletion Allowance to keep the oil industry happy again.

In short, LBJ did what he was supposed to, which was to serve the power elite network, whereas JFK thought he was really the President of the United States, there to serve the people. Since then, no President has dared to usurp the greedy interests of the Fed, military industrial complex, or the CIA. President Bill Clinton tried to be as anti-war as possible, but he was leveraged by the power network using the Monica Lewinsky scandal, which threatened to impeach him, and had to give in by invading Kosovo per their wishes.

The power network has owned the Presidency since, turning it into a puppet office that serves them rather than the American people. The significance of this is that the American people need to wake up and realize that they do not live in a democratic republic, but in an oligarchy and plutocracy ruled by the elite. The American people need to know that only they can take back their country. The power rests in their hands. Every tyrant has known and feared that the true power lies at the base of the pyramid, not at the top of it. That’s why fear and control have been their modus operandi.

Getting back to the assassination, in order to believe that Lee Oswald acted alone in killing Kennedy, you would have to accept that he in effect CAUSED the Vietnam War, in that if he hadn’t taken out Kennedy, the war would have been prevented per Kennedy’s order and wishes. This means that his senseless act led to the deaths of nearly 60,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese. It would also mean that Oswald caused the national debt, because his deed gave power back to the Fed, which Kennedy stripped it of. And coincidentally, his act made the power elite above happy, while causing the American people to lose trust in their government. Do you see how ludicrous that is? Does that make any sense at all? Could one deranged nut with no motive cause such things? You tell me. Once you see the big picture, you realize why the official story is more nonsensical than you imagined.

Power and authority in orchestrating the cover up

In the final analysis, the most powerful interests in America had a strong motive, interest and self-defense reason for getting rid of Kennedy. Thus it is far more plausible and probable that elements of these super powerful interests colluded to get rid of President Kennedy, than that one deranged lone nut decided to assassinate Kennedy to become famous with no other motive or gain. Such power elites and conglomerates had the motive, means and power to commit the crime and cover it up afterward, with LBJ able to cover for them all as Kennedy’s successor. These groups controlled the media and law enforcement. They were above the law and could control any investigation.

In stark contrast, a lone nut assassin such as Oswald may be able to obtain a rifle, but he would NOT be able order the Secret Service to stand down, or lure President Kennedy into Dallas. Nor would he be able to cover it up (especially after he's dead). He would NOT be able to alter the bullet wounds on JFK's body, or forge the autopsy photos, or get the Warren Commission to agree to a pre-determined conclusion, or get the FBI and CIA to help cover it up, or threaten and silence witnesses, etc. And neither would the mob acting alone, Castro or the Russians.

That's the bottom line here, and is as simple as basic math. Since the lone nut propagandists can't refute this, all they can do is deny and dismiss it all. So don't let them fool you into believing that 2 + 2 = 100 rather than 4. They will try though, no doubt.

Edited by WWu777
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WWu777: That is one of (if not the) best summations of the for / against arguments I have ever read. Excellent stuff and a fascinating read!

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Where do you think Jackie was scrambling to?

Good question. My answer? Who knows? The secret service guy? Just scrambling in a panic? to me those two scenarios make more sense than collecting his brain, but that is just me.

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