Undeniable proof that werewolves aren't real?

[AbyssWalker]

More so that people believe they are them, and not bored teens and role-players on the internet, but serious practitioners. Most of the old accounts of werewolves present them as witches who transform through complex rituals that involve enchanted pelts and magic (often hallucinogenic) salves. Several First Nation cultures have shape-shifting rituals which are still practiced today. It is my opinion that this is what people are reporting. This of course isn't going to hold water with those don't believe in the metaphysical. That said I have an easier time believing that werewolves are a result of spiritual projection (in the nature of an OBE) than that there is a species of undiscovered bipedal canine megafauna with a global range that remains undiscovered.

People believed in a lot of bizarre rituals back in the day, it doesn't mean anything actually happened beyond their own heads.

To those who still practice the same rituals, it doesn't mean anything actually happens.

Edited January 8, 2014 by John Mirra

[CaitSith]

People believed in a lot of bizarre rituals back in the day, it doesn't mean anything actually happened beyond their own heads.

To those who still practice the same rituals, it doesn't mean anything actually happens.

People believe in a lot of bizarre rituals today too, doesn't make them real, but we accept that people practice them. People don't bat an eye at the strangeness in mainstream religious practices, but this practice gets chalked up with bigfoot and el chupacabra.

I'm not trying to prove that it's real here, just that you can't disprove it anymore than any other religious practice or sighting of a spiritual entity. As far as I am aware no one has debunked ghost, angels or demons, don't see how this should be any different.

[Duck33]

Yeah that is great but my point is how do you prove it does not exist ? You can show it unlikely to exist ...but as for the o.p.s question I have no idea exactly how you would do that. .

Is there really any need to 'prove' something that has no 'good' evidence for it, doesn't exist? Surely the default position would be, X may be possible but not probable given current scientific understanding and the absence of a good hypothesis 'Get back to us when you have 'good' evidence to present and we'll review that, until then, not worth investing time and energy on.

[AbyssWalker]

People believe in a lot of bizarre rituals today too, doesn't make them real, but we accept that people practice them. People don't bat an eye at the strangeness in mainstream religious practices, but this practice gets chalked up with bigfoot and el chupacabra.

I bat an eye at strangeness in mainstream religious practices, so there's me at least, and probably more, but that's another thing.

I'm not trying to prove that it's real here, just that you can't disprove it anymore than any other religious practice or sighting of a spiritual entity. As far as I am aware no one has debunked ghost, angels or demons, don't see how this should be any different.

you can't disprove or debunk a lot of things, the burden of proof is with the one making the claim, you've probably been said this a hundred times before. it doesn't mean the person making the claim is automatically a liar, it could be real.

If you're only going to say "It's not debunked, it's not disproven", then I guess it never ends, and kind of pointless, actually. More clutching at straws than anything.

[Mikko-kun]

Firstly I don't beleive they are real.

BUT if they where real and the "stories" where true, then you are questioning the part about the pain and the bones etc during transformation.... what about the rest of it? Also you do realise the bone part is just as "out there" as the pain? You say it like "if we where to beleive the bone part, what about the pain?" Well the bone part is more likely not to be real where as a high pain tolerance is, think along the lines of adrenaline. But the main point is if the bones part was true then it would be some sort of supernatural magic, which would indicate the pain tolerance being from the same source.

I dont think it's impossible for our bone structure to change that way, and if it's not impossible we probably have the means but not the exact knowledge (in the same sense as ancient greeks had the means to build atom bombs but not the knowledge for everything you need in the process. If they had known they could had just advanced to electric era and built moden mines and all that). Our bones do grow, and the fractures are patched by our own system. And pig and human embryos look pretty similiar but develop into different beings, so maybe some kinda redeveloping thing.

Astrologically speaking we'd be talking about an abnormally heavy influence from Pluto (not Moon), as Pluto rules transformations in astrology. Usually mental transformations and both mental and bodily regeneration. Body and mind are linked, but I still dont know if werewolf-transformation would count. It would if there was a need to discard your human nature for some pressing reason, like for survival. If that was the case, it would be bloody mental... you might go actually crazy, it would be like being pumped up potence 10 or 100.

Capricorn rules bones and Pluto is now there, so if there's werewolves and the bone thing is the biggest obstacle in transformation, I'd wager those of us who are in our 30s now are gonna be 60 when we see adult werewolves running about, if they exist. I doubt they do, since there doesn't seem to be ancient records, but you never know.

[Mikko-kun]

And I'd wager only about a one out of thousand, ten thousand or million would become a werewolf if you become one instead of being born as one. Basically you change, when you become a werewolf. And it can help a lot if sky's in the favour of change during both your birthtime and when you go through the change. That is why I think the odds are similiar to a lottery jackpot even if there's a way. Of course if there's a way, I dont think you need the planetary positions to be there for birthtime nor otherwise, but it'll be harder than it already is.

But you know what, it might not be so far-fetched. Try look some placebo documentaries from youtube, I saw one where they told about this guy who for a long time thought he had a tumor and died. It was confirmed he had nothing like that and cause of death was not identified. Usually the thing that really limits us is our own disbelief.

I think it's basically a mental thing because of mind-body link, probably genes involved but because it's a transformation, should be something more than just your current genes.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Mikko-kun

[AbyssWalker]

And I'd wager only about a one out of thousand, ten thousand or million would become a werewolf if you become one instead of being born as one. Basically you change, when you become a werewolf. And it can help a lot if sky's in the favour of change during both your birthtime and when you go through the change. That is why I think the odds are similiar to a lottery jackpot even if there's a way. Of course if there's a way, I dont think you need the planetary positions to be there for birthtime nor otherwise, but it'll be harder than it already is.

But you know what, it might not be so far-fetched. Try look some placebo documentaries from youtube, I saw one where they told about this guy who for a long time thought he had a tumor and died. It was confirmed he had nothing like that and cause of death was not identified. Usually the thing that really limits us is our own disbelief.

I think it's basically a mental thing because of mind-body link, probably genes involved but because it's a transformation, should be something more than just your current genes.

Ignoring some of your points, here.

How do you know the difference between a real werewolf and a person who thinks he's a werewolf (or whatever creature)? (There could be a host of reasons for someone to believe they are a werewolf).

Are you saying that because of placebo effect, a person who thinks he's a real werewolf will eventually turn into a real werewolf because of it? I don't follow.

[Mikko-kun]

Nope, saying placebo wouldn't hurt. If you try turn to werewolf that is, your chances in that that is.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Mikko-kun

[JGirl]

you can't prove a negative.

therefore it's useless to ask for someone to prove that werewolves do not exist.

[Mikko-kun]

Useless in what perspective? that's not important...

You can't prove a negative in an internet debate true, but what does that matter? I dont care... it ain't gonna swing my opinion in one way or another, things that make sense to me are. I think you hear those things in this topic. And I doubt anyone here except the most gullible (or those who'd seen a real werewolf or are one themselves) actually consider werewolves real. The rumors started in 1500s in central/west europe, I recall the first case being some ragged old man and if you read about it, I doubt you'll be convinced werewolves are any more real, on the contrary. I dont think it's good to consider everything possible when you know where the claims originate from, like vampires, Bam stoker stories and the real Tepes. He was and maybe still is an icon to the people of Romania, a very controversial figure. But I dont see how someone would seriously think vampires were real after reading all the stuff.

How do you know the difference between a real werewolf and a person who thinks he's a werewolf (or whatever creature)? (There could be a host of reasons for someone to believe they are a werewolf).

When they transform in front of you, or if you see a wolf walking on two legs and showing staggering human characteristics, like driving a car. Until then, I wouldn't know. I wouldn't trust just anyone's word and birthchart in this case, no matter how much potential and how sincere the charts and my senses tell the person is. It's that extraordinary. Only if it really, really made sense situationally and there was something that allowed to count out delirium, hallucinations and fancifulness... But I'd never say it to them, they'll find out anyhow whether or not it's true if they think it through themselves.

UFOs, bigfoot, religions, astrology, psychic abilities and ghosts have people who swear on them and debate about them and go to great lengths. I've not seen the same with vampire & werewolf believers. Not discounting the possibility but seems highly unlikely in comparison. And I'd like to meet the person who thinks different about it after doing their research.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Mikko-kun