“Animal determinatives" And Anatomy

[physicsolved]

The Egyptians used “animal determinatives” when naming the human anatomy. No one knows why.

Does anyone have opinions or ideas as to why the Egyptians related animals to anatomical "terms"...?

We can remove from the equation the following postulate( as it has already been proposed): Namely:"...thus manifesting their recognition of the homology between human and animal organs." (Referrence: Ancient Egypt and the Origin of Anatomical Science

By A. J. E. CAVE, M.D., D.Sc. Department of Anatomy, St. Bartholomew's Hospital Medical College, London)

Does anyone have any (other) unique ideas for why the Egyptians framed their anatomical "terms" relative to "animal determinatives.?

[SlimJim22]

Can you provide some examples?

Animals were everywhere in Egypt because of what they represented. This depended on the characteristics of the animal but it is fairly obvious that Egyptians were at one with their environment and drew on the natural world for a great many of their words. When you are trying to describe something, it is good practice to use something that would be understood to convey the meaning.

Alternatively, there could be some correlation between the constellations or gods and functions of the body. This is more unlikely imo but you never know, those guys were a clever bunch.

[physicsolved]

Can you provide some examples?

Animals were everywhere in Egypt because of what they represented. This depended on the characteristics of the animal but it is fairly obvious that Egyptians were at one with their environment and drew on the natural world for a great many of their words. When you are trying to describe something, it is good practice to use something that would be understood to convey the meaning.

Alternatively, there could be some correlation between the constellations or gods and functions of the body. This is more unlikely imo but you never know, those guys were a clever bunch.

Indeed animals were everywhere in Egypt. However animals of necessity are present everywhere and have existed relative to all ancient as well modern human civilizations. Why did not these "other" civilizations utilize animal determinatives in "describing things"(so much)? In the particular relative to human anatomy? Equally as relevant; while the Egyptians indeed seemed to be very aware of their surroundings, in what way did these surroundings influence their words..( coined)? Did the Egyptians draw something from the "template" of the human anatomy?

I agree with your comment as to the natural inclination of humankind to make " associations" between things so as to better express ideas and thoughts. However this seems to be more a phenomenon of language than anything else. That is to say that it seems that the human environment( shared by all humankind)serves to provide a "schematic or diagram" if you will toward the creation of and utilizing of language. Thus the combination of flora and fauna as well the accompanying sounds, flavors, colors, attributes, qualities, shape, size, proportions, symmetries ect.. all serve to contribute to, if not superiorly enhance the ability for humans to grow in speech and alphabetic systems.

This is a subliminal point that is being is implied by the opening post as well this topic.

However. Is their a DIRECT relationship between animals and human anatomy. If so did these associations result in the original language system of man and further the present plethoric alphabet systems of mankind?

I would like to post a comprehensive definition of the word "determinative" so as to express my point.

Determinative.......

"crucial, deciding, determinant, determining, determiner. A graphic symbol used in ideographic writing to denote a semantic class and written next to a word to indicate in what semantic category that word is to be understood, thus at times distinguishing homographs.

Based upon this definition I would ask:

In what way were ANIMALS (?) ……….crucial to the Egyptians naming the human anatomy? Furthermore: Why were animals a DETERMINATE factor in the Egyptians coining words relative to the human anatomy?

Lastly:

Are their graphic symbols attached to the human anatomy? Are these symbols so vivid and explanatory as to birth a alphabetic system efficient in the transmition of human thoughts ( and realities) to speech? Are the Hieroglyphs ( demonstratively pictographic) representative of a certain civilization deriving an alphabetic system from the human anatomy?

There is no doubt that the Egyptian Hieroglyphs bear an ideographic nature. Yet what things were the Egyptians observing/derriving(concepts, ideas, symbols) that resulted in their using these things (pictures) to express themselves; verses a word or set of words? Were they observing their environment or more so were they aware of things related to their own human form anatomy? If the human form was indeed the blueprint for their language then this would mean that the human anatomy was more efficient ( to them) than even their abundant surroundings in framing a language system. Or: That their surroundings were defined , illustrated, explained as well comprehensively elaborated upon through the human anatomy.

Does the human anatomy represent a designed alphabet system that if comprehended and utilized can serve to birth the original language of man and then gradually expand to encompass many different shades of languages. Shades of thought?

Are their THINGS written on the human anatomy that can produce principles of object and sound that when perceived and subsequently understood can result a more eloquent and descriptive way for humans to express themselves as well communicate to others. Are there THINGS which are "lamin(ated)" on the human form that serve to appropriate a language system?

I am very interested in any comments relative to the discussion. Indeed! These are very abstract questions. However it is the purpose of this thread to introduce images as well anatomic and linguistic relevancies that will serve to answer the opening question. The question that will be answered relative to vivid and scientific observations and experiments is this:

Why did the Egyptians use ANIMAL DETERMINITIVES when naming the human anatomy?

The examples (myraid)….will follow.

Edited January 7, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

2 things to consider with regard to this topic is that the Egyptian hieroglyphs followed the principle of “REBUS”. For purposes that will be defined accordingly I will refer to the term “rebus” as a “super” principle of hieroglyphs. ( a super principle of linguistics).As an extension I will refer to it as “supra.” ( It is interesting that the adverb “supra” has 1 sense that means: At an earlier place. As well the word supra used as an adverb is very rare.). Another relevant consideration is that the hieroglyphs were predominately PHONETIC….in nature.

Consider the expression “in nature”. Relative to the preceding sentence we understand this to mean “a quality”. We also are aware that when one says “in nature” they are also referring to flora and fauna. When one really pays attention to the expression “phonetic in nature” ….they realize that this could say “sound in nature.” The nature of sound. Or: There is a “sound quality” to all things that exist within.. nature.

Part of nature, though superior (supra) as to intellect and form, is the human body. As an extension the human form consists of parts. These parts ( dissections) represent the ANATOMY of the human form. As it is that the human form exists as “part of” nature then we could appropriately conclude that as flora and fauna bear “qualitative sound”(nature phonetic) so must the human form anatomy bear innate “sound attribute(s).” Thus: The human anatomy not dissimilar to flora/fauna bear “information” that if discerned could necessarily provide a means for “decoding” such information into a phonetic/phonologic system of language. Thus as “nature” represents “encoded sound information”; all of “nature,” not excluding the human natural form/body, would accommodate and in the strictest sense represent the “progenitor template” of language systems. As it is true: “Hieroglyphs consist of “PICTURES” of familiar objects that represent sound.” What would we say is the most familiar “object” that humans ( who utilize superior language systems) are aware of ..or familiar with. Why isn’t it their very own “object form anatomy.” Thus if the principles of language are indicative of the translation of sound to image(symbol), and if the primary “sounding board” we are familiar with is our own form anatomy, then the postulate that the human form would be an appropriate “guide” to language systems would not be such a stretch. As well , relative to linguistic principles, this would be an extremely appropriate assumption. An assumption that can be tested as to veracity. How would one test this “hypothesis.” One must test it in order to apply scientific principles and methodology ( as well pure observation) toward perceiving if there is any substance or relevance to the proposal. It is the purpose of this thread to apply scientific principles ( principles of anatomy as well as linguistics) relative to the proposal to discern if there are any relevancies or solid associations that can be discovered that would strengthen the argument.

I will begin by drawing attention to the following principle of Hieroglyphs ( that which demonstratively hyper indicates and determines that animal symbols were appropriate in framing a language system). Those principles are:

1)phonetics

2)rebus

3)supra

If we wrote a sentence representing the definitions of these three words we would have something like the following.

AT AN EARLIER AGE (humans)DERIVED AS WELL DEVISED A SYSTEM OF SYMBOLS, SUCH AS PICTOGRAMS, PURELY FOR THERE SOUND RELEVANCIES REGARDLESS OF THEIR MEANING TO REPRESENT WORDS. THUS THESE COINED WORDS WERE PREDOMINATELY PHONETIC IN NATURE.

In the next post we will begin to consider all of the above with the view to discerning scientific realities that were birthed “at an earlier age” , and that, such scientific principles of language gradually expanded through application thus birthing many more words relative to many more languages.

[physicsolved]

In the proceeding post I drew attention to the REBUS. As well I “coined” 2 associative words and subsequently attached them to the word rebus. The two associative words were “SUPER” and “SUPRA.” I will now preface this post with many other words as well expressions and idioms. After posting these I encourage those visiting this thread to consider these words as to any associations. Namely:

Drape, drop, droop, drop down, trap, door drop, rabbit, rabies/rabid, rapius, rapacious, rapid, rapid’s, rapids( water flowing), fast and furious, beat the rap, Easter, pisces, Easter parade, ascension(rapious), tear to pieces (rip to shreds),…(careful of the dog he will tear you to pieces= rabid), dry dribb(le)..(hydrophobia= rabies), drape ribs, Isis, abroad (shoulders), Zeus, (tear up Zeus)( Poseidon), droopy ears, draping ears, dropping ears, Tammuz, Easter sup(supper), separate, (spur tortoise)…hare(rabbit), spurt(to gush or issue suddenly in a stream or jet, as a liquid; spout.(anatomy/water rapids) 2. to show marked, usually increased, activity or energy for a short period: The runners …(hare/rabbit).

There are 100’s if not 1000 of other qualitative words that could be written in addition to these. However the question is:

How are these words associated with a certain part of the human anatomy? A part of the human anatomy that, as to “object space” encompasses but an 10 inch diameter of space. However as to phonetic meaning ( 100’s if not 1,000’s of “qualitative determinative sound” words, meanings and expressions) this “part of the human anatomy” speaks volumes upon volumes. Indeed this part of the human anatomy( as all parts of the human anatomy) retain and store vast information. So much information that this part of the anatomy could represent efficiently a certain volume of information relative to a language system.

In my next post I will begin to demonstrate both the “vast information” as well as the scientific methodology( phonetic/anatomic) for discerning this information.

Edited January 7, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

Secret........... carvings?

Anatomy.......... disections?

language......... shematic?

I will write a story utilizing the words stated earlier. Within this “story” I will leave a blank in every place that can be explained relative to a certain part of the human anatomy. There is nothing relevant about the story in fact it will be rather absurd. However when the missing “ descriptive/determinative/associative” anatomic organ is placed into the blanks the point will become clear. Thus a story:

Once there was a farmer who planted a garden of lettuce(letters). This farmer was also a ___(trapeze)artist. When the lettuce garden began to grow __(fast and furious) a ___(rabbit) began to devour it. Indeed! This ___(rabbit) commenced to ___(ripping to shreds; tear to pieces) all of the delightful lettuce. The farmer decided to build a ___(trap). He built the trap and designed it so that the ___(door) would ___(drop down) when the rabbit entered so far into the ___(trap). He ___(draped) the ___(trap) with an old feed sack as well placed a few fresh lettuce leaves inside the box. The next day the rabbit brought his ___(rapacious) appetite to the garden and began to ___(rapidly) eat the lettuce. A river was next to this garden and the sound of its ___(rapids) was always a pleasant sound to the rabbit as it dined on the farmers lettuce. On this particular day humans were celebrating ___(Easter). The rabbit was pleased with this as they viewed his kind favorably on this day. In fact on this day their would be a an ___ ___(Easter parade) when all of the humans gathered together to revere the ___(a muscle). As well an ___ ___(Easter supper) after sundown.

As the rabbit was thinking he wandered near a strange dark hole elevated above the ground. It looked like a small cave. He loitered closer and his curiosity was getting the best of him. As he got closer he began to feel strange. His floppy ears formerly erect now began to ___(drop). The farmer was watching this all unfold and he could tell from a distance that the rabbits ears were gradually beginning to ___(droop). The Farmer also had a dog. This dog was a __*__Doberman. The farmer noticed that his dog had been gone for a few days. As he was considering his dogs absence he noticed a ___(spur) tortoise meandering near his lettuce patch. He immediately said “ that’s odd” what are the chances of a turtle showing up when I am trying to catch a ___(rabbit). His mind began to reflect on the story of the turtle and the hare. In an instant , through his peripheral view he realized that the ___(rabbit) had entered into the ___(trap). The farmers heart began to beat___(rapidly). Of course little did he know that the ___(rabbits) heart was beating much faster. The farmer then heard a thud and instantly the ___ ___(trap door) closed shut.

The farmer quickly ran to the ____(rabbit) ___(trap). As he was running toward the lettuce patch he noticed a dog come out of the woods. Its ears were ___(dropped down). Its ___(broad) shoulders were crouched low. All of its MUSCLES WERE TENSED and it was foaming at the mouth. The dog…his dog was ___(rabid). The __*__(DOBERMAN) was ___(RABID)! The farmer slowly REVERSED his course from going toward the___ (RABBIT) and began to ease back toward the house. He reasoned to himself “from a docile ___(rabbit) to a rabid dog” what a strange day indeed. The whole course of his day was altered. His relative view was changed into one of “ it is much more agreeable to have a docile rabbit running around than a rabid dog”. He was sad that he had to put his ___*___ down. After burying his former friend he approached the ___(rabbit ) ___(trap) cautiously and opened the ___(trap) ___(door). The rabbit with a sudden burst of energy sprinted (___ spurted rapidly) out of the ___(Trap). The ___(rabbit) had ___( beat the rap) and was grateful. The farmer though sad was grateful that the ___(rabbit) was kept safe from the potentiality of the bite from his ___( rabid) _*__( Doberman).

What is the point that should be ____(laminated) upon the mind. The point is this: This story resulted from what is lamin(ated) upon the human anatomy.

The words and expressions that are represented by the blanks can be understood by filling in the blanks with these series of pictures.

However in order to perceive these things.. there is one principle that must be accounted for. This principle will become clearer as we proceed into the …:

ANATOMY/PHONETIC/LINGUISTIC….discussion!

Edited January 8, 2011 by physicsolved

[kmt_sesh]

Slim asked for some examples, which I think is called for. A good one is the Egyptian word for "ear," transliterated as msDr, and it's spelled hieroglyphically like this:

The last glyph is the semantic determinative, and it is not a human ear but a cow's ear. However, the word msDr can refer to either an animal or human ear. Another example is "eye," transliterated as irt, which looks like this:

The word irt often does not carry a determinative. The vertical slash below the eye glyph indicates in this case the glyph of the eye is meant to be understood as an eye and not merely for its phonetic value (the Egyptian ir and its variants form a dizzying number of different words). It's not clear, however, that in this case the eye glyph is not human. It is noticeably different from the glyph of the eye belonging to Horus, which has been recognized as the eye and markings of a particular species of hawk in North Africa.

Another good example is the word "heart." In ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs it was commonly written in a couple of different ways, arguably the most common as ib:

This is another example of the glyph standing for itself, as the vertical slash indicates. But another word for heart was HAty, spelled like this:

At the end of the word you can see the heart-glyph. It is believed to depict the heart of a bull, although in Book of the Dead vignettes of Spell 125 the ba's heart on the scale looks the same (example here; note the pan at left).

At other times a glyph of an animal part is used to represent a word or part of a word that has nothing to do with that animal. A familiar example might be the Egyptian word for "good, beautiful, happy," transliterated as nfr. It is hieroglyphically spelled with the glyph of an animal's heart and windpipe:

Why such hieroglyphic words developed this way is fairly well understood. It would be rather difficult to depict hieroglyphically a concept like "beautiful" but ancient Egyptian, like other Near Eastern scripts, made generous use of the rebus principle physicsolved mentioned. The original word for the heart and windpipe must have been a homonym for the Egyptian word for beautiful, so the depiction of the heart and windpipe served the purpose.

As to the original question, I think the Egyptians were simply influenced by their environment. To be sure, physicsolved's question is a very good one and it's a question I've thought about in the past, although I cannot profess to have definitive answers. I've been studying the hieroglyphic script for over a decade and I still have questions of my own; I suspect I always will. I do have to stress that not all instances of anatomy are spelled with animal-part determinatives, although the tendency is indeed noticeable. To the contrary is the word "foot," transliterated as rd and spelled like this:

The determinative here is a human leg with a foot. Similarly the word for "finger," transliterated as Dba, is spelled like this:

This is a human finger, complete with fingernail. The same is true for "hand," transliterated as Drt and spelled like this:

But physicsolved brings up an intriguing question. A great many other body parts do carry animal parts as determinatives. Perhaps this has to do with the pastoral origins of Egypt. Odd as it may seem, Egypt perfected animal husbandry even before it mastered agriculture. Prehistoric peoples in the Nile Valley were intimately familiar with cows and sheep and other livestock, inside and out. Literally. The same was not true for human anatomy, however.

Hieroglyphs present other interesting oddities, and one that has always struck me is the owl. It is ubiquitous in hieroglyphs and can mean a number of different prepositions or adverbs or can stand phonetically for the sound m. Yet, as common as the owl is hieroglyphically, it's decidedly odd that the owl is so noticeably absent in other contexts. Go figure.

[physicsolved]

I Thank the kind gentleman for his comments. It has served to not only break the silence of the room ( no doubt relative to the strange propositions enumerated) but as well encourages me to respond to his comments.

I appreciate the examples you afforded to the room. I did not deliberately ignore the inquiry rather delayed my response so as to allow IMAGERY to answer these questions. Such imagery(pictures plethoric) will be presented in time and relative to appropriate chronology of methodologies.

I wish to direct your attention to one statement that you made with regard to the heart. You stated the following:

“A familiar example might be the Egyptian word for "good, beautiful, happy," transliterated as nfr. It is hieroglyphically spelled with the glyph of an animal's heart and windpipe.”

I wish to draw your attention to a strange “associative phonetic anomaly” between the heart and the windpipe. If you have not already discerned the strange relationships.

As you will notice with picture 1 the trachea seems to “embrace” the heart relative to their anatomic positioning. Thus anatomically the heart is quite demonstratively “linked” to the trachea. However the heart is also associated with or “linked to” the trachea from the phonetic standpoint.

How so.

Phonetic anomaly? You will notice that the word “HEART” would be appropriated if considered written backward ..as the following:

T R A E H

What does this succession of letters almost exactly say relative to phonetics?

This:

Te aRe Aye E AICHE

TRACHEA!

Is this coincidence or is there a reason for it. This thread is designed to show there is a “anatomic/phonetic/linguistic” reason for it. Such “information” will be forthcoming.

As well there is an old proverb that says : “out of the hearts abundance the mouth speaks.” The trachea could be considered a channel for utterances of the heart. Or a “tube” if you will which allows for expressions of the heart to be vocalized. It is interesting that the word “beautiful” considered backward says “love tube”. Thus as a means of “coining an expression” we could refer to the trachea as a “love tube” (beautiful) allowing the abundant thoughts and emotions of the heart to be “channeled” up to the mouth and resulting in expressions of emotions of the heart. Thus the Egyptians realized the affinity of the heart with the vocal expressions as well phonetically “framed” the word beautiful through the use of these two intimately associated “organs.”

It is also interesting that “nfr” is a phonetic part of the name for a certain figure that was significant to the Egyptians. Queen Nephrititi . She was renowned for her….BEAUTY. Perhaps beauty as to form as well ability to speak.

I will explain how nephrititi relates to the human anatomy latter on in this thread. Such explanations will be followed by vivid images of the human anatomy. After “seeing” these realities the science of anatomy as well phonetics and linguistics will become brilliantly evidenced.

I am anticipatory with regard to further dialogue with kmt_sesh. Please continue to help the room to understand the nature of Hieroglyphs. I will be presenting unorthodox( yet eloquently explained and defined) evidence supporting the reality that anatomy and language shares as much affinity as the “heart and trachea.”

You go on to say:

“A great many other body parts do carry animal parts as determinatives.”

Indeed! They do.

In fact( as will be reconciled scientifically and through observation and experiment) The human body LITERALLY carries “animals” ( the word “determinatives” is necessarily omitted) upon its form.

You continue: “perhaps this has to do with the pastoral origins of Egypt.”

That is an insightful suggestion. However I would respectfully amend your statement to read:

“this has to do with the PRIESTLY class( embalmers….”discerners of human anatomy”) as well the origins of anatomy as innate to this priestly class.

Indeed! “Oddities”…peculiarities of the human form. Peculiarities with regard to phonetics and phonology. Peculiarities intimately related to the original science behind language. Hieroglyphs.

Note: The word “Hieroglyphs” says phonetically “ hierarchal pictures”. As it is that a Hierarchy is an “arrangement of items ( objects, names, values, categories, etc.) in which the items are represented as being “above,” “below,” or “at the center of”.” Thus hieroglyphs is an arrangement or “system” of translating sounds to pictures. As well: Hieroglyphs translate the human anatomy to a language system! As I will demonstrate subsequently and scientifically. As well a “hierarchy” is associated with a “priestly class” as well. Thus:

Hieroglyphs= priestly pictures. Pictures viewed by the priests when observing what is lamin(ated) on the human form anatomy. ( note: the word “lamin” spelled backward says : “nimal” this phonetically reads: “ANIMAL”. ANIMAL PICTURES ON THE HUMAN ANATOMY? Indeed! 1,000’s if not millions of them. As well they are described relative to the phonetic renderings of perspective anatomy parts. As we shall see.

Note: Consider the word “Hieroglyphs” spelled backward : “shpylgoreih.

Look at the first 4 letters, namely: “shpy” This reads as to phonetics “ superior”. As well the remaining letters are: “lgoreih.” If one phonetically scrutinizes this “strange succession of letters” it could read “ Language”!

Heiroglyphs= “superior language? Extracted from the human anatomy?

I will make some anatomical considerations and return with the relevance of the animal…”OWL” inn a proceeding post. Relative, OF COURSE to the human anatomical form…considered as parts( dissections).

P.S The phonetically coined word “lgoreih” also reads “ logo rich” or: Logo Reih ( German word for “reign…..as in sovereign or superior)

[physicsolved]

relevant point to consider.

The scientific association to the owl is that they are the ....."ORDER"( recall the meaning of hierarchal)...Strigiformes.

[physicsolved]

a

Edited January 8, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

"

Edited January 8, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

I

Edited January 8, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

I MUST ADD. I AM AWARE THERE WILL ENSUE "ROUGH CRITISISMS" OF THE "SCRIPTED" PARTS OF MY POSTS. HOWEVER I AM CONFIDENT THAT THE "IMAGERY" WILL SERVE TO SCIENTIFICALLY RELEGATE SUCH. I SAY THIS WITH UTMOST RESPECT FOR OTHERS OPINIONS AND IDEAS. I WELCOME ALL ARGUMENTS, CRITISISMS, OR THE LIKE. SCIENCE BY ITS VERY NATURE MUST ACCOMODATE SUCH SERIOUS DISCUSSION AND DIALOGUE.

HOWEVER AS THE OWL IS WISE...ANATOMY ENDOWS ONE WITH KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. LINGUISTICS IF CONSIDERED ARDUOUSLY AND SICERILY ALSO CAN RESULT IN UNDERSTANDING " ENCODED MEANING" ( PHONOLOGY) LYING WITHIN LETTERS AND WORDS AS WELL ALPHABET SYSTEMS.

THUS AS THE SCIENTIFIC ORDER OF OWL STATES: STRIGIFORMES

"SOME ROUPH CRITIC(ISM)"

PICTURES WILL SERVE THE PURPOSE OF ANSWERING SUCH WARRANTED AND NOT SO IGNOBLE "CRITIQUES"

sorry for the redundant posts.............accidental

[physicsolved]

Owl:

1)Pectoral

2)Dorsila

3)Abdominal

4)Femur

Remember you must learn the phonetic/anatomic/linguistic principles before being able to fully comprehend these things.

I will begin to explain relative to responses and inquires.

[jaylemurph]

I MUST ADD. I AM AWARE THERE WILL ENSUE "ROUGH CRITISISMS" OF THE "SCRIPTED" PARTS OF MY POSTS. HOWEVER I AM CONFIDENT THAT THE "IMAGERY" WILL SERVE TO SCIENTIFICALLY RELEGATE SUCH. I SAY THIS WITH UTMOST RESPECT FOR OTHERS OPINIONS AND IDEAS. I WELCOME ALL ARGUMENTS, CRITISISMS, OR THE LIKE. SCIENCE BY ITS VERY NATURE MUST ACCOMODATE SUCH SERIOUS DISCUSSION AND DIALOGUE.

Actually, science by its very nature must rely on observation, hypothesis and experimentation. It also relies on the idea that phenomena occur in a rational, predictable ways, and these ways can be modeled.

History and linguistics are. Not. Sciences. They are studies of human beings, who can and do completely unpredictable, illogical things for completely unpredictable, illogical reasons. It's why they're called 'humanities'.

If you set yourself up as some manner of historian or linguist, or even someone moderately interested in the intelligent amateur pursuit of those things, but use the terminology and methodology of a scientist alone, the only thing you're going to determine with accuracy is your own level of foolishness.

--Jaylemurph

[Harte]

Slim asked for some examples, which I think is called for. A good one is the Egyptian word for "ear," transliterated as msDr, and it's spelled hieroglyphically like this:

The last glyph is the semantic determinative, and it is not a human ear but a cow's ear. However, the word msDr can refer to either an animal or human ear.

As can our word for ear. That would, of course, be "ear."

the only thing you're going to determine with accuracy is your own level of foolishness.

--Jaylemurph

I've missed that.

Jay, I'm not sure that this can be determined with any real accuracy. Seems to me to be one of those things that grows faster than you can measure it.

Harte

Edited January 9, 2011 by Harte

[physicsolved]

The proceeding pictures begin to tell the story(..pictographic/alphabetic..”story”) that was posted earlier with relation to the farmer.

The story(fictitious) with all of its parts(anatomy) originated from the “nonfiction” human form.

As well the remaining images (farmer, lettuce..etc.) necessary to complete the story is equally pictorial- “eyesed” within this small portion of the human anatomy.

The next post will be a “cipher” of sorts.

The words utilized within the “corpus” of the next post were predominately extracted from the following reference:

Ancient Egypt and the Origin of Anatomical Science

By A. J. E. CAVE, M.D., D.Sc.

Department of Anatomy, St. Bartholomew's Hospital Medical College, London

These words have been utilized to frame a brief thesis. All of the words used as well their relativity to other words is talking as much about language as it is the human anatomy.

This cipher….full to overflowing with “associations” will be defined relative to all images as well commentary posted to the room.

Pay close attention to the images accompanying this post. there are necessary things one must follow(defined within the pictures) in order to begin to realize the priciple and phenomenon that will be elaborated on in this thread.

I welcome all to the room and am very interested in all remarks or observations.

[physicsolved]

Ancient Egypt and the Origin of Anatomical Science

By A. J. E. CAVE, M.D., D.Sc.

Department of Anatomy, St. Bartholomew's Hospital Medical College, London

Word extract(physic solved)

UNIQUELY DISTINCTIVE. CONCRETE EXPRESSIONS. EXTENSIVE AND ELABORATE TECHNIQUES DESIGNED. FRAME MANIPULATION (CADAVER-REVADAS-REVERTERS…manipulation). ANATOMY. UNPARRALLELLED TIME/PLACE. HUMAN STRUCTURE. ANATOMIST SCIENTIST. TECHNICIAN. PROCEDURES ORIGIN. TECHNIQUES. KNOWLEDGE FORTUITOUS. EXTENSIVE BODY OF INFORMATION. SURPRISE(CORPUS= SUPROC)ACERTAINED. DATA EXTANT. PHYSIOLOGICAL FUNCTION TRULY SCIENTIFIC. UNDERSTANDING WORTH. CONSIDERATELY ACQUIRED. ADVENT OF THE DYNASTIC DEBASED(THE BASE). FASHION IN THE LATER(LETTER). PRECISE TECHNIQUES.VARIED(VARIETY)INTERNALLY (INTERNAL-INVERTED). DEGREE (ANGLE OF RELATIVITY). OTHERWISE:(WITHOUT/ INVERTED RELATIVE VIEW).UNKNOWN WAS REVEALED. INFINITELY MORE STRUCTURE TOPOGRAPHY. BE LEARNED. THE BODY CAVITY(YTIVAC=EDIFICE?). CLEARED (TRANSPARENTLY VIEWED)CONTENTS. (INFORMATION)! THE (DIAGRAM)/STRUCTURES (SYMBOLS). DETATCHED( ATATCHED).CANONICALLY. (CANON)LEFT (CANNON RIGHT). ADJACENT STRUCTURES (ADJECTIVE STRUCTURES).CUT ACROSS ( ACROSS LANGUAGE BARRIERS).THE ROOT OF THE REMOVED( RESTORED).PREVIOUS IGNORED. APPROACHED BREAK MADE (BREECH).RARE SPHENOID (SPEECH ANNOTE).(FIGURES OF SPEECH)REMOVED.(RESTORED).INQUIRY (IN QUERRY)TENTORUIM( MORE WRITTEN IT, WRITING IT). TONGUE (TANAK,ANKH,ANKHENETON,CHEOPS/KUFU=FIGURES OF SPEECH)AND EYES(ISIS). LEFT IN POSITION (RIGHT IN POSITION).ACCOMPLISHED PROCEDURES. BESPEAKS(BE CHEOPS=SPEECHES) EXTREMELY ACCURATE AWARENESS. PRECISE (PRE-CISSION..INCISSIONS). MUTUAL RELATIONS AND ATTACHMENTS. MAIN BODY organs (ORIGINS). (MAIN BODY OF ORIGINAL SYMBOLS… AS TEMPLATE FOR LANGUAGE)! REMOVED (RESTORED)CONTENTS. SORTING MANIPULATION( ALTERED RELATIVE VEIW.. INVERTION).CERTAIN! SEPERATELY RESTORED COMPLETE anatomical nomenclature (BIRTHS SUPERIOR LANGUAGE NOMENCLATURE). EARLIEST KNOWN History. shape, size, appearance, texture.

the shape(alphabetic/pictographic animal deterministic..character). size(lower case/upper case). appearance(symbol). texture(shade of meaning). consistency(system of language derived from anatomy). soft parts (feminine animal flora derivative)(masculine). INEVITABALY HABITUATED( RECURRENT). WEALTH OF GROSS ANATOMICAL/LINGUISTIC (INFORMATION). ESSENTIAL. SOMETHING UNIQUE HISTORICALLY (LINGUISTICALLY). VALUABLE ACQUAINTANCE. ECONOMY OF FRAME ( FRAMING OF LANGUAGE PICTURES EFFICIENT).WITHOUT EQUAL. A PRIME(ARY LANGUAGE) TRANSMITTED THROUGH ANATOMICAL KNOWLEDGE( TO A SYSTEM OF LANGUAGE).orally( CHEOPS,AKENAHTON). GLEANED BY APRENTICESHIP (CESHIP= CHEOPS…PRENT= PARENT…CHEOPS FATHER OF HEIROGLYPHS). MAGNIFICENT TECHNIQUAL INNOVATIONS AND ACHIEVEMENTS. PURE SCIENCE.PAPYRUS OF ANATOMY= HEIROGLYPHS! ANATOMICAL VOCABULARY! GATHERED( STRUCTURED). LISTS OF BODY PARTS ( SYMBOLS OF LANGUAGE ORGANIZED INTO LINGUISTIC STRUCTURES OF LANGUAGE). COMPOSITIONS PAPYRI= HEIROGLYPHS OSTRACA ( IS TRACER….OF HUMAN FORM). TERMS EXTERNAL=PARTS FEATURES OF LANGUAGE( FIGURES OF SPEECH). TERMS INTERNAL. PRECISE COLLECTIVE TERMS. SPECIFIC NAMES OBTAIN (FROM ANATOMY).

IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT THE EGYPTIANS WROTE THESE TERMS (ANATOMY TERMS TO HIEROGLYPHIC PICTURES)WITH ANIMAL DETERMINITIVES!

RECOGNITION. ( THOUGH RELIGIOUSLY, INORDINATELY APPLIED AND INTERPRETED). HOMOLOGY BETWEEN HUAMN LANGUAGE AND ANIMAL DETERMINITIVES… RELATIVE TO THE HUMAN ANATOMY. ..AND THAT RELATIVE TO HIEROGLYPHS. COMPARATIVE (ANATOMY…LANGUAGE).SURPRISE (CORPUS). BODY OF INFORMATION RESULTING FROM:

Thread: Manipulating the retina leads to discoveries

Thread satellite images define………mystery

Principle: relativity alteration

Principle: invert colors (reverse light photon image)

Principle: Reflection (sun disk, Urim and Thummim ETC.)

FACILITATES CONCEPTS. UNDERSTANDING AND APPRECIATION OF CONTINUITY ( CONTINUING…EVOLVING OF LANGUAGE PHONETIC/PHONOLOGY/IDIOM….ROOT CONTINUITY OF LANGUAGES= ANATOMY).

THE HEART INDEED! ( THE ROOT FORM ANATOMY…..RELATIVE TO ALL LANGUAGE SYSTEMS.) PRESERVED.. ( PHONETICALLY/PHONOLOGICALLY/IDIOMATICALLY) WITHIN ALL LANGUAGEES). EMPLOYED ENSURE. CONTINUED WELL BEING ( ROOT PHENOMONON OF LANGUAGE IN TACT.. RELATIVE TO ALL LANGUAGE SYSTEMS). LOST (REGAINED). MATTERS REQUIRING MUCH MORE THAN THE EXCERSIZE OF ORDINARY POST MORTEM SCRUTINY OF ANCIENT LANGUAGES AS WELL MODERN LANGUAGES. ORDINARY ( SUPERFICIAL PERFUNCTORY) OBSERVATION.

ALTER RELATIVE VIEW. SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE(S)!

ANATOMICAL OBJECT INTEREST . CERTAIN! RECOGNIZE. RETAIN. FORMALLY DISCARDED. PRESENTLY REBIRTHED

ANATOMICAL TERMINOLOGY ( TERMS COINED THROUGH TRANSLITERATING THE HUMAN FORM). LETTER CLASS. STRUCTURE REMAINS. MODERN LINGUISTIC STUDY= (GENERALIZED, UNSPECIFIC. UNSCIENTIFIC?).MODERN ANATOMY STUDY?

RANGE OF INFORMATION= TOPOGRAPHY OF HUMAN FORM. PRECISE! INVALUABLE, AGE OLD, COMPELLING AND CONSTANT ( CONSISTENT, HARMONIOUS, SCIENTIFIC…DEMONSTRATIVELY OBSERVED)INSPECT. PREPARE. MANIPULATE PARTS=

ESTABLISH EARLIEST ORGANIZED CORPUS OF LANGUAGE/SPEECH KNOWLEDGE. VERY NATURE OF LANGUAGE SYSTEMS = HUMAN ANATOMY! PRECLUDES THEORY. ALL INCLUSIVELY SCIENTIFIC (OBSERVATORY)

EXPLORE HUMAN ANATOMY AS EXPLORE LANGUAGE SYSTEMS.

PRESERVATION OF LANGUAGE REGARDLESS OF THEIR BEING THOUSANDS= ANATOMY.

THE HUMAN FORM IS STILL ON THE EARTH IN ITS ENTIRETY. LANGUAGE SKILLFULL= ANATOMY…IS THAT WHICH RETAINS THE INFORMATION INNATE TO HEIROGLYPHS

ANATOMY ACCOMODATES DETAILED OBSERVATION(S). WHOLE AREAS(LANGUAGES) AND SYSTEMS ( PERSPECTIVE PRINCIPLES OF LANGUAGE).

INVESTIGATE. AFFORD. OPPORTUNITY. ENDOWING . ABSTRACT KNOWLEDGE (ABSTRACT LANGUAGE CONFORMS TO DISAMBIGUOUS REALITIES).

EXTRRAVAGANT CLAIMS? DIFFICULT ABSTRACITIES? INTERPRETATIONS?

RATHER:

SUBSTANCIAL OBSERVATIONS. SCIENTIFIC INTEREST. BEGINNINGS OF THE SCIENCE OF LANGUAGE= ANATOMY!

SOMEWHAT CONFUSED? FANCIFUL DERRIVATIONS? FOOLISHNESS…?

Rather:

DERIVED FROM AN EGYPTIAN SOURCE: ANATOMY/HEIROGLYPHS! DESCRIBING COLUMNS. EVIDENCE ( AND IMAGERY) IRREFUTABLE. CONDUCTED ( AN ORCHESTRATED FRAMING OF THE HUMAN FORM INTO A LANGUAGE SYSTEM).

RESEARCHED= RESURRECT.

CULTURAL/HISTORICAL/ANATOMICAL/HEIROGLIPHICAL/SCIENTIFIC ORIGIN.VAST REPOSITORY NATIVE TO. POPULOUS LANGUAGE SYSTEM. WEALTHY LANGUAGE SYSTEM. MAINTAINED! STORED WITHIN THE HUMAN ANATOMY(STORED WITHIN ALL LANGUAGES) FOR CERTAIN PRESERVATION OR DISCOVERY BY LATTER CIVILIZATIONS= HUMAN FORM!

PRECISE DESCRIPTIONS OF RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS AND RELIGIOUS ICONOGRAPHY( ANIMAL DETERMINITIVE ANATOMY…RELIGION!)

PERSONAL ACQUAINTANCE WITH THE MECHANISM HUMAN FORM= EVIDENCE CRUTCHING UP ALL LANGUAGE SYSTEMS, RELIGIONS AND POLITICAL SYSTEMS BOTH ANCIENT AND MODERN.

HUMAN FORM ANATOMY= THE GREATEST EXTANT CORPUS(SURPRISE) OF ….KNOWLEDGE!

RELIGION= ANATOMY COMMENTARY!

Edited January 9, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

EDIFICE

a building, esp. one of large size or imposing appearance.2.any large, complex system or organization. a complex or elaborate institution or organization. An elaborate conceptual structure: observations that provided the foundation for the edifice of evolutionary theory.

R….evolutionary “theory”(?):

The human body represents a large “construction design”(building)( the “temple of the body”). The human body represents an EDDIFICE (cavity= ytivac). An elaborate and superiorly complex system of organization. So elaborative and organized that it resulted in “the ancients” using it to frame a language system full to the brim with “concepts” (innate to and derived from the human anatomy). The “observations” made by humans of their own human form laid a “foundation” for the “edifice”(pseudo?) that is evolutionary theory as well religion. The human body is the “template” ( “temple it) that resulted in all thoughts, ideas, languages, civilizations, cultures..etc(infinite) that exists today. These things exist today and have “bloomed” relative to the vast information stored in the human anatomy. So vast the information(innate to human anatomy) that not even the complete sum of perhaps more than 6,000 languages can even approximate the knowledge derived from the anatomy of the human form.

[jaylemurph]

EDIFICE

a building, esp. one of large size or imposing appearance.2.any large, complex system or organization. a complex or elaborate institution or organization. An elaborate conceptual structure: observations that provided the foundation for the edifice of evolutionary theory.

R….evolutionary “theory”(?):

The human body represents a large “construction design”(building)( the “temple of the body”). The human body represents an EDDIFICE (cavity= ytivac). An elaborate and superiorly complex system of organization. So elaborative and organized that it resulted in “the ancients” using it to frame a language system full to the brim with “concepts” (innate to and derived from the human anatomy). The “observations” made by humans of their own human form laid a “foundation” for the “edifice”(pseudo?) that is evolutionary theory as well religion. The human body is the “template” ( “temple it) that resulted in all thoughts, ideas, languages, civilizations, cultures..etc(infinite) that exists today. These things exist today and have “bloomed” relative to the vast information stored in the human anatomy. So vast the information(innate to human anatomy) that not even the complete sum of perhaps more than 6,000 languages can even approximate the knowledge derived from the anatomy of the human form.

So that'd be a "I'd like the sheen and polish that science and rationality give to an argument without all that fuss of actually being sane and rational", then?

--Jaylemurph

[physicsolved]

So that'd be a "I'd like the sheen and polish that science and rationality give to an argument without all that fuss of actually being sane and rational", then?

--Jaylemurph

You say: So that'd be a "I'd like the sheen and polish that science and rationality give to an argument without all that fuss of actually being sane and rational", then? ( you impute to me.

My response: So thatd be a ….amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."( -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder) (as necessarily imputed to you).

As well if you scroll down within the page where your as well as my posts lie( as well pay more than the usual typical attention to the images …I have presented and will continue to present) you will come to realize that:

-Ancient hieroglyphics items. Anatomic!

-Ancient sacred place rediscovered! Human anatomy!

-The lost lands. Topography of human body!

-Sacred places. Temples relative to religious systems; structures/icons..these relative to: Anatomy!

-All around us. Dwelling within and around the human anatomy.. Represented through religious symbologies. Scientifically ..observationally discovered sheened or laminated on the human anatomy. Describing pictorially the full some(Latin: falsum) iconography, ideas and religious systems.

Note:

The word FALSUM written backward : MUSL ….AF : MUSCLE EVER. EVERY MUSCLE

Or: The religious systems of the past as well as those extant today are derived from a pseudo(fallacious= falsum/muscle) interpretation of the reality that the human muscles form most if not all of the religious symbologies as well as animal deity worshiped in the past and present. Some of those muscles so derivative of human religious ideas as well language systems are the following though not the full preponderance:

Calf, rabbit, oxen, goat, ankh, cross, all seeing eye, pyramid, sphinx( esphinge), Zeus, Isis, Horus, falcon, Dagon, Ashtoreth, Ishtar (Easter), snake, Urethra, eagle, bear, armadillo, turtle, parrot, frigate, vulture, praying mantis, koala, panda, rose (flowers), cupid, Santa( Yes. Ole Saint NECK), Christmas tree, Yule, chicken, hen-chick, sheep, cows, sea cow, walrus, elephant(Hindu), otter, terrier (sitting on the darier), rat,…Etc…

Of course I cannot show and tell them all as they are representative of millions of religious symbols and ideologies. All extracted from the human anatomy

Thus: I will merely continue to show and tell as much as humanly possible until others( verses incurable predisposed cynics?) realize the principles and continue to see the IMAGES thus can participate in the predominately religious story that is being told through an awareness of the human anatomy.

Definition of the word : SHEEN

"luster; brightness; radiance.2.gleaming attire.splendid clothing

AS IT IS THE SKIN IS THE LARGEST ORGAN OF THE HUMAN BODY.

It , as all objects, reflect light. As one examines the combination of light and shadow as well as inverts the process( as well as relative view) one will discern that the human body is indeed a splendid piece of clothing. In the strictest scientific sense humans do not have to put on animal skin (sheen) to demonstratively be sheened (s…ach…een….SKIN) with animal…derivatives. The human body is a gleaming attire enshrouded with the plethoric decoration of flora/fauna. Indeed the human anatomy ( largest part= sheen(skin)) is animal-ated(laminated) ….animated in this regard. Yet though animal skin (animal-lamina) is found relative to the human anatomy this provides no legitimate nor sanctioned reason to revere it. Thus the human anatomy accommodates such idioms as :

be soaked to the skin……..human body saturated with animal ( determinatives)

Beauty is only skin deep…dont adore the images acknowledge the designer of the images

jump out of skin………..animals on the human anatomy. Humans fearing the phenomenon. Thus superstitiously ascribing deity appease , personification, anthropomorphosis. eyes they have but they cannot see( merely spatial representations)

make flesh crawl….animals images ARE on the human anatomy. But legs they have but cannot… crawl.

nearly jump out of skin………..those/these images wont jump out at you or hurt you rather: merely patternization relative to a sole, original designer.

play out of your skin……….Religious ideologies in a petty way gleaning pleasure from animating and ascribing relevance to mere symmetries, proportions, patterns…thus: science/math and design treated in an irresponsible and fancifully characturalized fashion

skin alive…………correction: Skin NOT alive! Rather skin merely laminated with a superior design( OF BEAUTY) of symmetry,proportion, mathematic principles….with no anima(ted) animalistic significance nor necessity. The burdens of superstitious ascribal to non thinking symmetric shapes…representations/principle design images.

Principle: Apply scientific/mathematic/geometric phenomenon with the absence of superstition and absurd predisposition.

Edited January 10, 2011 by physicsolved

[physicsolved]

The Hebrew word for “animal” is : BEHEMAH

As it historically recorded(?) The first human was “BY HIM(SELF)” when HE named the “BEHEMAH”

The designer(?)of……….. “BY HIMSELF” (Adam) also designed the “BEHEMAH” (animal(s)).

“ and ….God was “forming from the ground” every BEHEMAH(animal)

“ and …God proceeded to “form the man out of dust from the ground”

Scientific principle: Same designer/same ground….same superior mathematic and geometric disposition.

Pseudo- Scientific.. void of accurate principle: animal-human “THE SAME.” Inferior disposition. Predisposed toward non acceptance of any idea of superiority relative to humans. Equally opposed to the idea of: Human superiority to animals

Adam said : I was afraid because I was NAKED!

He was afraid because he listened to a lie and thus became afraid because of the lie!

A “SNAKE” (AKHEN(S) ATEN(G)) talked to “them”. They listened to the “tongue”( ten(g)….of a “snake” (“snehka”). They were “snehkad” ( naked…and...snookered).

Adam said: I was afraid because I was” snookered/naked (fooled) by the religious lies of a master ventriloquist….”and so I hid myself.”

The designer of “BY HIM(self)”(man) and “BEHEMAH”(beast) responded:

“Who told you that you were naked”

Adam blamed eve ( Idioms: pass the buck, scapegoat, point the finger)

Eve indicated the religious facts(absolute), namely:

“ The serpent- it deceived me and so I ate.”

Serpent? Urethra? Ankh? Snake? …

…Used a strange tongue ( strange lying expressions) and “figures of speech (Cheops Khufu) and NO DOUBT deceived eve by this “strange speaking in tongues.”

But was the “BY HIMSELF” (the man) really deceived?

[physicsolved]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Weird Animals: Proboscis monkey

Weirdness factor: The male proboscis monkey has a pendulous nose that is thought to amplify his calls to females (and his warnings to big-nosed rivals). The most dominant male usually has the biggest nose and can collect a harem of five to eight females.

Consider these scientific associations definitive/derrivative: Anatomy vs. Language

(!) Idioms implied?

What is the significance of Probosis monkey to anatomy and language? What is the implication of its nose?

[jaylemurph]

You say: So that'd be a "I'd like the sheen and polish that science and rationality give to an argument without all that fuss of actually being sane and rational", then? ( you impute to me.

My response: So that‘d be a ….“amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."( -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder) (as necessarily imputed to you).

You're the one who keeps insisting on invoking "scientific" terminology without actually bothering to use it, or without even ceding the possibility that using scientific terminology is virtually useless in the fields you're trying to... well, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do. It seems to be something related to language origin, but devoid of any of the linguistics or archaeology that usually attends it. Which either makes you a tad perverse -- which is fun, and goes a bit to explain the pictures you keep putting up (umm, ta for those, by the way) -- or is an unwitting slip revealing how little you actual know (or want to know) about the subject. This is not as fun.

Have you ever considered picking up a book by Chomsky or (gods save us, but there are worse ways to pick up the subject) Steven Pinker?

--Jaylemurph

[kmt_sesh]

I for one must admit to being confused, which is why I haven't remained active in this discussion. Usually any subject pertaining to Egypt and especially to the linguistics of ancient Egypt would catch my attention and hold it, but I honestly don't know what you're trying to say, physicsolved. Spelling English words backwards, listing latinate terms for human anatomy--this has nothing to do with Egyptian hieroglyphs. Exactly what are you trying to convey, physicsolved?