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Who Wrecked the Balkans

154 posts in this topic

It would be cool to know if Diana Johnstone, the author of this article (and, god help us, the book too), was born this way or some horrible accident caused her brain damage.

I’m used to preposterous falsifications and malicious interpretations of Balkan history, but she just took it to the whole new level of intentionally stupid.

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Posted (edited)

"He was a war criminal who caused four wars, over 300,000 deaths, 2.5million homeless. Sometimes monsters make the biggest impacts on history - Hitler and Stalin - and such is the case with this gentleman."

I agree with this from article. Except fact that he caused more then 300.000 deaths. Everything different from this should be discussed in Alternative History.

Slobodan Milošević have done crime against humanity.nuff said.

I was in that war. I feel his blood thirsty madness on my skin.

This is his politic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Milošević was same as Hitler. So true.

Edited by the L

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From the article:

Nobody, including at the Hague tribunal where he died for lack of medical treatment, has ever actually proved that Milosevic was responsible for the tragic deaths in the wars of Yugoslav disintegration. But Holbrooke was never put on trial for all the deaths in Vietnam, East Timor, Afghanistan, Iraq and, yes, former Yugoslavia, which resulted at least in part from the U.S. policies he carried out.

WHAT??

So it wasn’t JNA, chetniks and Milosevic, it was Richard Holbrooke that was holding me under artillery fire for a year, broke into my house and held me at gun point etc.

Well, too bad for Diane the alternative historian, my memory serves me damn well. More than I can stand sometimes.

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Posted (edited)

Diana Johnstone whats wrong with you? :blink:

No evidence, what about this:

Dubrovnik

Edited by the L

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Srebrenica:

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Posted (edited)

Sarajevo:

*snip*

Edited by Saru
Graphic content

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Vukovar:

Here you can hear Serbian chetniks and JNA ,who were under command of Slobodan Milošević, song:

"Druže Slobo šalji nam salate bit će mesa klat ćemo Hrvate"

"Fellow Slobo (Which is nick name for Slobodan Milošević ) send us salad, we have meat we will slaugther Croats"

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Posted (edited)

So Diana Johnstone I will be polite: shut f##k up please.

I loose many dear people in this war. And Milošević is main reason for that.

He and his plan for Great Serbia caused so many deaths. So many rapes...

Sad part is that this so called journalist Diana Johnstone will sell her book on the back of so many rape victims and dead people. Realy sad. Shame on you Diana.

Edited by the L

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Another thread about trying to blame America i see now they are getting posted under the Uk/Europe section. :angry:

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Another thread about trying to blame America i see now they are getting posted under the Uk/Europe section. :angry:

The article from the OP is blaming America to ridiculous extent, but Balkan is still Europe, believe it or not.

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Another thread about trying to blame America i see now they are getting posted under the Uk/Europe section. :angry:

Exactly. Diana Johnstone blame USA that they for no reason attack Serbia.

That Diana just want attention and commercial for her book. And because of that Im done with this thread.

Edited by the L

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Who is this uneducated (feel free to put whatever yuo want) anyway?

She is just another loser trying to get some attention.

Holbrooke was a good man.

Who is this uneducated (feel free to put whatever yuo want) anyway?

She is just another loser trying to get some attention.

Holbrooke was a good man.

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Blah blah US is the most evil thing ever blah blah blah revisionist history blah blah anything bad that has happened every in the history of the planet is the US fault blah blah blah I'm crazy.

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Who is this uneducated (feel free to put whatever yuo want) anyway?

She is just another loser trying to get some attention.

Holbrooke was a good man.

From our perspective Holbrooke was a good man and he achieved the impossible when he forced Milosevic to actually give up his megalomaniac, murderous Greater Serbia project.

From her perspective, he’s one charming mass murderer, not a monster, noooo, and the part of his charm is that he croaked in Hague before it was proven that he is the mass murderer.

I’m rolling my eyes so hard I can see inside my head. Oh, look, there’s my brain. The one that could have been spilled on the floor on many occasions because I was an obstacle to Milosevic’s dream of ethnically pure state in which he would be the only law.

Rest in peace, Richard Holbrooke, you certainly weren't perfect but what you achieved in Dayton is remarkable. Thank you.

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Case closed.

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Well, well, well, well. Sounds familiar in reverse (Afghanistan mujadeen!!). How easy it is to go from a baddy to a goody and viceversa depending on which side you're on. :rolleyes:

suddently posing shoeless in a tent in the summer of 1998 for a photo op seated among armed Albanian secessionists which up to then had been characterized by the State Department as "terrorists", and shortly thereafter announcing to Milosevic that Serbia would be bombed unless he withdrew security forces from the province, in effect giving it to the ex-terrorists transformed by the Holbrooke blessing into freedom fighters.

Now, in the article, the writer is making a stack of sensationalistic proclaims without evidence or proof and above all, it sounds quite ridiculous to make out Milosevic to be an innocent bystander, a victim of circumstance or even worse, to put somebody else on his same level. Afterall, who started the whole mess?

But, on the other hand, is the whole story fiction or is there some element of truth in it??? It's not that the Us Govt has never been involved in strange and devious plots for it's own purpose and self interest (WMD comes to mind amongst other things).

We may never know, but one thing is certain, Milosevic was a criminal, the most accredited criminal in this conflict and nobody can take that title away from him.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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Wow this woman is shocking, so biast its unreal.

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Well, well, well, well. Sounds familiar in reverse (Afghanistan mujadeen!!). How easy it is to go from a baddy to a goody and viceversa depending on which side you're on. :rolleyes:

Now, in the article, the writer is making a stack of sensationalistic proclaims without evidence or proof and above all, it sounds quite ridiculous to make out Milosevic to be an innocent bystander, a victim of circumstance or even worse, to put somebody else on his same level. Afterall, who started the whole mess?

But, on the other hand, is the whole story fiction or is there some element of truth in it??? It's not that the Us Govt has never been involved in strange and devious plots for it's own purpose and self interest (WMD comes to mind amongst other things).

We may never know, but one thing is certain, Milosevic was a criminal, the most accredited criminal in this conflict and nobody can take that title away from him.

I'm not particularly happy with the Taliban paralel, you know. I know what you had in mind, but ex-Yu and Afghanistan don't share enough of common features to be put in the same basket. These two separate situations must be seen as such, separate and each with its own set of rather complicated causes, implications and outcomes.

And here’s the brutal truth:

Milosevic started the whole mess and he did not hide his goal was to expand Serbian borders and establish aggressive, totalitarian hegemony on occupied territories.

He organized the travelling circus, literally. Psychopaths like Seselj would go around and held speeches in front of audience dressed in WWII Serbian chetnik uniforms. Such rallies were called “događanje naroda” – the happening of the people. That should imply it was all spontaneous.

The goal was to scare other nations in silent acceptance of Milosevic’s coup.

Waste resources in control of JNA (People’s Army of Yugoslavia), illegally seized in that never recognized coup, and waste amounts of outdated but still very deadly weapons were distributed to Serbian civilians under excuse they’ve been threatened by other nations.

So, we’re at the point where everything is set up for war. Milosevic is only waiting for the “green light” (the guarantee of the major players that they won’t intervene) and – gets it. **** hits the fan on March 28th 1991, when Serbian paramilitary ambushed the bus with Croatian policemen in Plitvice and killed Josip Jovich, 22 years old. May he rest in peace.

In the following years my home town was bombed by mortars, heavy artillery, tanks, 250 kg airplane bombs, various other projectiles, old Russian earth-to-earth missile included... countless bullets were not that problematic, the chance of catching one is quite small, but exploding shells are horrifyingly effective. Phosphorus shells were fired at our corn and wheat fields and our fire-fighters had to chose between putting out fires that devoured homes and those that devoured the crops.

And so on.

It’s still very, very real for me and it will follow me to the rest of my life.

Now, it’s possible to blame the US, Europe, Russia, dear god or Brazilian samba dancers for not meddling in, but the fact remains it was Serbian leadership at that time, with Milosevic on top, that planed, organized and carried it out.

Milosevic guaranteed to his main sponsors in UK (not US, it was UK) that JNA will crush people armed with antique guns from WWII in few weeks. He forgot the determination to stay alive can do wonders.

For example, I’m still alive. He’s not. tee-hee :w00t:

Serbia received some diplomatic help and some weapons from Russia (but - funny, isn't it? - Diane doesn't feel like writing a book about that), others just stood there, watching and waiting, hoping the whole mess will settle down by itself. It didn't, so US decided to finally cut the crap and therefore save god knows how many more lives.

Many countries sent humanitarian aid, accepted refugees and treated wounded. Germany, Norway, US, Italy, Austria... thank you all, kind people, and forgive me for not listing every single country. You know who you are and I love you. Sincerely.

The bombs that were dropped on Serbia could have been avoided, easily. They served to only one purpose - to force Milosevic to negotiate and stop the agression. Milosevic knew what will happen, but he didn't care for his people, the way he spent them in the war clearly shows he enjoyed the pain and suffering and his true psychopath motiv was not Serbian chauvinism, it was need to inflict pain, on Serbs too.

Kosovo blew up when - thanks to Milosevic's stupidity - Serbia was weak enough it couldn't hold it in the iron grip like before. But that process was imminent too and if anyone sped it up it was Milosevic, not US.

After all, Kosovo is not an issue constructed by the US. That issue is older than the US itself.

If you want to understand what the hell is going on there, you must look further back. Start with Ottoman occupation and patiently follow the trail of blood all the way up to today, but do not skip Aleksandar Rankovic. Discovering that part of ex-Yu history will show two seemingly contradictory things:

First, there are no guilty and not guilty over here, everyone has their share of guilt, inherited or self-made.

Second, the fall of Yugoslavia was imminent because it was Serboslavia in practice.

Diane’s book is just another in a series of pathetic attempts to whitewash the failed Greater Serbia project and push it back on us.

Well... YOU SHALL NOT PASS.

Every friendly human being is welcome in my house, I don’t care about their nation, religion, colour, wealth. But show up on my doorstep with a gun and I’ll rip your throat out.

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Helen, you have more brain in yor pinki finger then diane in her whole square head.

Your post is on a scale from one to ten a twenty.

My respect.

Am I surprised? Not at all knowing that you are nase gore list.

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Helen, you have more brain in yor pinki finger then diane in her whole square head.

Your post is on a scale from one to ten a twenty.

My respect.

Am I surprised? Not at all knowing that you are nase gore list.

Hvala, hvala :D

Natural selection still works in Balkans :lol:

Various Dianes underestimate us, believing that our constant misfortune is the proof of our lesser abilities, while the truth is it’s our soul that keeps us in trouble. We’re simply not cold-hearted enough to find our place in today’s world.

But that will change.

Dont roll them so hard. You will become like this fish:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=196589

:tu:

Great post.btw

I am like that fish already. What I think is clear for all to see and I can stand high pressure :D

BTW, it’s funny how Balkan related threads usually draw Balkan people only. The rest of the world doesn’t understand, doesn’t care and doesn’t want to know.

Which is absolutely fine, but couldn’t the rest of the world give it up completely then?

It’s highly offensive and totally unfair to have various misinformed malicious Dianes write books that totally disregard the impact their constructions will have on people in question. If she doesn’t know what’s going on, then she could kindly shut up, if she does know then she should be aware we’re living, breathing, feeling and bleeding people, not lifeless pawns on the table.

I hope some people get visited by ghosts of our war, ghosts of children in particular. Maybe that would help them understand.

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BTW, it’s funny how Balkan related threads usually draw Balkan people only. The rest of the world doesn’t understand, doesn’t care and doesn’t want to know.

True. But I think that is the case with many area in the world not just Balkan.

I hope some people get visited by ghosts of our war, ghosts of children in particular. Maybe that would help them understand.

What goes around comes around. Im sure that she will get what she deserve. In one way or another.

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I'm not particularly happy with the Taliban paralel, you know. I know what you had in mind, but ex-Yu and Afghanistan don't share enough of common features to be put in the same basket. These two separate situations must be seen as such, separate and each with its own set of rather complicated causes, implications and outcomes.

And here's the brutal truth:

Milosevic started the whole mess and he did not hide his goal was to expand Serbian borders and establish aggressive, totalitarian hegemony on occupied territories.

He organized the travelling circus, literally. Psychopaths like Seselj would go around and held speeches in front of audience dressed in WWII Serbian chetnik uniforms. Such rallies were called "događanje naroda" – the happening of the people. That should imply it was all spontaneous.

The goal was to scare other nations in silent acceptance of Milosevic's coup.

Waste resources in control of JNA (People's Army of Yugoslavia), illegally seized in that never recognized coup, and waste amounts of outdated but still very deadly weapons were distributed to Serbian civilians under excuse they've been threatened by other nations.

So, we're at the point where everything is set up for war. Milosevic is only waiting for the "green light" (the guarantee of the major players that they won't intervene) and – gets it. **** hits the fan on March 28th 1991, when Serbian paramilitary ambushed the bus with Croatian policemen in Plitvice and killed Josip Jovich, 22 years old. May he rest in peace.

In the following years my home town was bombed by mortars, heavy artillery, tanks, 250 kg airplane bombs, various other projectiles, old Russian earth-to-earth missile included... countless bullets were not that problematic, the chance of catching one is quite small, but exploding shells are horrifyingly effective. Phosphorus shells were fired at our corn and wheat fields and our fire-fighters had to chose between putting out fires that devoured homes and those that devoured the crops.

And so on.

It's still very, very real for me and it will follow me to the rest of my life.

Now, it's possible to blame the US, Europe, Russia, dear god or Brazilian samba dancers for not meddling in, but the fact remains it was Serbian leadership at that time, with Milosevic on top, that planed, organized and carried it out.

Milosevic guaranteed to his main sponsors in UK (not US, it was UK) that JNA will crush people armed with antique guns from WWII in few weeks. He forgot the determination to stay alive can do wonders.

For example, I'm still alive. He's not. tee-hee :w00t:

Serbia received some diplomatic help and some weapons from Russia (but - funny, isn't it? - Diane doesn't feel like writing a book about that), others just stood there, watching and waiting, hoping the whole mess will settle down by itself. It didn't, so US decided to finally cut the crap and therefore save god knows how many more lives.

Many countries sent humanitarian aid, accepted refugees and treated wounded. Germany, Norway, US, Italy, Austria... thank you all, kind people, and forgive me for not listing every single country. You know who you are and I love you. Sincerely.

The bombs that were dropped on Serbia could have been avoided, easily. They served to only one purpose - to force Milosevic to negotiate and stop the agression. Milosevic knew what will happen, but he didn't care for his people, the way he spent them in the war clearly shows he enjoyed the pain and suffering and his true psychopath motiv was not Serbian chauvinism, it was need to inflict pain, on Serbs too.

Kosovo blew up when - thanks to Milosevic's stupidity - Serbia was weak enough it couldn't hold it in the iron grip like before. But that process was imminent too and if anyone sped it up it was Milosevic, not US.

After all, Kosovo is not an issue constructed by the US. That issue is older than the US itself.

If you want to understand what the hell is going on there, you must look further back. Start with Ottoman occupation and patiently follow the trail of blood all the way up to today, but do not skip Aleksandar Rankovic. Discovering that part of ex-Yu history will show two seemingly contradictory things:

First, there are no guilty and not guilty over here, everyone has their share of guilt, inherited or self-made.

Second, the fall of Yugoslavia was imminent because it was Serboslavia in practice.

Diane's book is just another in a series of pathetic attempts to whitewash the failed Greater Serbia project and push it back on us.

Well... YOU SHALL NOT PASS.

Every friendly human being is welcome in my house, I don't care about their nation, religion, colour, wealth. But show up on my doorstep with a gun and I'll rip your throat out.

;). Well written post which just goes to show how people who think they know, may know what happens in real war situations but only those who live these experiences are the true witnesses to the event and may have suffered the crude brutality that humans are capable of.

Going back to the first paragraph of your response (bolded), my comment wasn't meant to compare the situation in Afghanistan to what happened in Yugo. I was just pointing out the fact that the article depicted a perfect example and the hypocracy of it all, where one mans terrorist becomes another mans hero, depending on which side you sit on. For the Soviets, the mujadeen were terrorists, the west called them freedom fighters. Similar to the Albanian secessionists who basically went from terrosists to freedom fighters overnight. Pffff, politics!!!

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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;). Well written post which just goes to show how people who think they know, may know what happens in real war situations but only those who live these experiences are the true witnesses to the event and may have suffered the crude brutality that humans are capable of.

Going back to the first paragraph of your response (bolded), my comment wasn't meant to compare the situation in Afghanistan to what happened in Yugo. I was just pointing out the fact that the article depicted a perfect example and the hypocracy of it all, where one mans terrorist becomes another mans hero, depending on which side you sit on. For the Soviets, the mujadeen were terrorists, the west called them freedom fighters. Similar to the Albanian secessionists who basically went from terrosists to freedom fighters overnight. Pffff, politics!!!

Absolutely, one day Rambo is playing polo with them, the next day there’s a guided missile exploding in their butt.

That was the sane part of my response.

Now, the scroll that follows is a form of therapy for me and I honestly don’t expect anyone to read it. I just have to spout it out or I’ll explode.

The status of Kosovo terrorists/freedom fighters is pretty much cemented now in favour of freedom fighters, but if Macedonia blows up (god forbid, but it’s possible) even that can change. Not necessarily against Albanians, it could be Macedonians promoted into terrorists in their own land, overnight. Similar thing almost happened to Croats in Croatia, in the ‘90s, thanks to horrifying political clumsiness of Croatian leadership at that time. Sometimes I think they were actually deliberately trying to screw up Croatia, not pull it out of the mess.

Diane would love that idea of government that (knowingly or not knowingly) works for mysterious puppet master :D but realistically, they were simply wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even I – hell, even my grandmother – would pull it out better than naturally antipathetic and incompetent Tudjman did. But it’s too late now.

All those wonderful people on all three sides are now dead.

(War criminals survived, that’s almost funny how psychos always survive. I have attacks of religiousness when I think about it, it’s like my grandmother was right and the devil keeps them alive to do even more evil.)

What could have stopped the Serbian aggression were patience, steel nerves, impeccable manoeuvring and – honesty. Our president had none of these. He played tennis and sipped champagne while Vukovar was burning. Unbelievable but still forgivable. Let's say he didn't know what to do. But he also ordered the murder of Josip Reichl Kir, one of true heroes of the Homeland war, the honourable man that was personally zooming back and forth between Serbian and Croatian villages, ensuring peace. Now, that's un-****en-believable and un-****en-forgivable.

There were – and still are – mixed villages in Gorski Kotar region, but there was no war. You know why? Because Serbs and Croats exchanged children. Not a bullet was fired. I bow to those people, I bow to the ground to them.

So even if Richard Holbrooke was a demon and possessed Milosevic or Izetbegovich, our fate was still in our hands.

There’s no conspiracy that can excuse each and every one of us. Everyone has to answer for their own actions, from the top leaders to the lowest drunken idiot who was waking me up with howitzer every morning. May he wakes up like that the one who gave him the stinking howitzer. Every ****ing morning. In Hell.

Well, leaders are now excused by death, all three are dead by now.

Among them, Izetbegovich was definitely the last one anyone can accuse of wanting, starting or prolonging the war. Bosniak situation was the hardest, they are squeezed among Serbs and Croats and had no weapons at all. Which reminds me of hilarious UN embargo that stopped us from arming ourselves against aggression. Gee, thanks, UN, I felt so saved by your peacemaking wisdom when JNA helicopter fired anti-tank missile through my house and I was armed with dough roller. *cough* fags *cough*

The cause of this war was mental illness of Serbian leader, the reason why it kept going is high rate of psychopathy among South Slavs combined with half-literacy (yes, my eastern neighbours, I am winking at you in particular), and one of the consequences of that war is this post.

Sorry. I can’t promise I won’t do it again.

I told you not to read ;)

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