Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC

[SlimJim22]

Not sure about the conductive properties of Limestone. I'm not a proponent of the idea of mysticism or metaphysics, but that's fine for those that are.

I think it's one of the most interesting ancient sites I have ever read about. I have read everything I could get my hands on except the papers written in German...I don't know how to speak German and the last time I tried to use an online translator, I got crappy results. Maybe I should try again. Anyone else tried?

No, limestone probably not that conductive unless there was a lot of water, which there is no evidence of. However, I was more thinking of the people or priests as being the conductors. Just a bit of fringe speculation.

[siezmic]

At this point there is much speculation about that. Except excavation not much has been done at this point. But the indication seems to be that the place was not inhabited, which would stay in the tradition of certain cult caves (Mostly southern Europe)of the time or preceding Gobeliki. That is why we assume that it comes from the same hunter gatherer cultures that preceded agriculture. Now, everybody could be dead wrong.

Not until the gross excavation is done can the theoretical work begin, and at that point we will know how things fit together.

I keep looking at the immense size of the earthworks, the scale of the wall structures and the size of the rock mass that was moved and it appears to me that this effort required a combination of a lot of time, or resources (people and technologies), or probably both, to be applied to create the outcome we see today. In which case I think it is reasonable to imagine a sizeable construction population would have been present on permanent location near the site for many years - long enough to expect to see some sign of habitation. Given that no sign of this has emerged to date I believe there is still a lot to discover.

I wonder if the site was developed as a focus for a hunter-gatherer culture which eventually succumbed or transitioned to an agrarian culture which sought to distance itself from its 'barbarian' hunter-gatherer past - hence the burial of the site which avoided upsetting old beliefs and religious superstitions which could have occurred if the site had been attacked and destroyed or dismantled by the emergent culture.

[questionmark]

I keep looking at the immense size of the earthworks, the scale of the wall structures and the size of the rock mass that was moved and it appears to me that this effort required a combination of a lot of time, or resources (people and technologies), or probably both, to be applied to create the outcome we see today. In which case I think it is reasonable to imagine a sizeable construction population would have been present on permanent location near the site for many years - long enough to expect to see some sign of habitation. Given that no sign of this has emerged to date I believe there is still a lot to discover.

I wonder if the site was developed as a focus for a hunter-gatherer culture which eventually succumbed or transitioned to an agrarian culture which sought to distance itself from its 'barbarian' hunter-gatherer past - hence the burial of the site which avoided upsetting old beliefs and religious superstitions which could have occurred if the site had been attacked and destroyed or dismantled by the emergent culture.

They had a lot of time, about 3000 years during which the site was active. They probably got the record for the longest permanently existing culture.

The burial is sure puzzling, but it could be simply that you don't simply walk away from a place that has influenced your culture for such a long time.

[Abramelin]

Well, it is a true statement. There are still things to be discovered, we don't have the complete picture of the development of human society. There are new finds made every month that give us new insights into the past.

True, and it's scientists who discover things, not 'channelers' or other rear-end preachers.

They just fantasize, and hope we idiots will gobble it all up. Well, many people who lost their marbles did.

These morons/preachers are addicted to public attention. Scientists, on the other hand, have a theory based on facts/finds, and can only hope their collegues will agree with them. If their conclusions are way off, they will be torched by their collegues in the field of research.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

That gives some lunatics/fantasts a freeway to post their insane theories.

And if some scientist shows up, and tells them they were wrong and uninformed, s/he get's accused of collabrorating with some government conspiracy.

It is good to speculate and give theories.

Again Science is self correcting.

[Penelopa]

It is good to speculate and give theories.

Again Science is self correcting.

Hi,

I am going to Gobekli Tepe the end of August and wandering if is open for tourist who are not travelling with a group?

Have someone been there recently?

Thank you!

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hi,

I am going to Gobekli Tepe the end of August and wandering if is open for tourist who are not travelling with a group?

Have someone been there recently?

Thank you!

I have never been to Turkey so I dont realy knows about it. I doubt.

[Penelopa]

I have never been to Turkey so I dont realy knows about it. I doubt.

It will be my first visit there also.The plan is very interesting( i thing so)

1.3 days in Capadocia and visit around there the underground cities

2.2 days around Nemrut Dagi

3.2,3 days around Urfa0Gobekli Tepe and area

4.2,3 days around lake Van

5.2 days in Ani

It will be my first trip to Turkey but dont think that will be the last one.

Next year , I think to climb Ararat or maybe Kilimanjaro( still not sure)

Every day i am reading new things about Turkey and think it is amazing country for ancient mysteries. !

I think to send an email to the archaeologist who is working on Gobleki Tepe to be sure that will be able to visit the site .It is the most important stop of my trip there!

I will write when came back!

[SlimJim22]

It will be my first visit there also.The plan is very interesting( i thing so)

1.3 days in Capadocia and visit around there the underground cities

2.2 days around Nemrut Dagi

3.2,3 days around Urfa0Gobekli Tepe and area

4.2,3 days around lake Van

5.2 days in Ani

It will be my first trip to Turkey but dont think that will be the last one.

Next year , I think to climb Ararat or maybe Kilimanjaro( still not sure)

Every day i am reading new things about Turkey and think it is amazing country for ancient mysteries. !

I think to send an email to the archaeologist who is working on Gobleki Tepe to be sure that will be able to visit the site .It is the most important stop of my trip there!

I will write when came back!

You lucky you.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

[Paracelse]

It will be my first visit there also.The plan is very interesting( i thing so)

1.3 days in Capadocia and visit around there the underground cities

2.2 days around Nemrut Dagi

3.2,3 days around Urfa0Gobekli Tepe and area

4.2,3 days around lake Van

5.2 days in Ani

It will be my first trip to Turkey but dont think that will be the last one.

Next year , I think to climb Ararat or maybe Kilimanjaro( still not sure)

Every day i am reading new things about Turkey and think it is amazing country for ancient mysteries. !

I think to send an email to the archaeologist who is working on Gobleki Tepe to be sure that will be able to visit the site .It is the most important stop of my trip there!

I will write when came back!

Bring lots of picture go Gobeki please .. lucky you.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Bring lots of picture go Gobeki please .. lucky you.

Mate, Im not sure she will ever come back.

She is gone for good.

[Paracelse]

Mate, Im not sure she will ever come back.

She is gone for good.

Bummer the one seen online are not good enough.

[Taun]

Looking at the pics of Gobekli, I am struck by the similarities to the ruins in Chaco Canyon,

New Mexico...

I know Gobekli is thousands of years older, and was built of megaliths rather than small

pieces of sandstone, but there seem to be similarities of architecture, and perhaps purpose...

Of course, the original purpose of both sites, is not known, but niether site exhibits much

in the way of signs of extensive habitation...

(Edit) Also, both sites were built using curved lines and circles, when straight lines would probably have been much easier to use...

Not trying to make any sort of connection between the two (obviously), just making an

observation...

Edited August 5, 2011 by Taun

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I thought that Chaco canon was trade and religious center. (?)

I read that there was found traces of trading with Mayas. Maybe Im wrong. Im sleepy now.

[Taun]

I thought that Chaco canon was trade and religious center. (?)

I read that there was found traces of trading with Mayas. Maybe Im wrong. Im sleepy now.

Yes there is evidence of trade, but also evidence that they only periodically went there,

possibly was also a religious center - but no one is sure...

My own personal belief is that it (Chaco) was sort of a "State Fair" location - a "World

Expo" so to speak... A nuetral place where all cultures and trade partners could come and

trade, mingle, worship, etc in relative peace...

It is interesting that the tribes in the area (Hopi, Mescalero, Navajo, etc) all claim

Chaco as the 'Origin of the World' - or at least their people... Sort of a Garden of Eden -

though some accord it as a place of absolute Evil...

Perhaps Gobekli was similar in usage...

[Big Bad Voodoo]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=gobeklitepe-site-unveils-mystery-2011-10-13

...engaged in agriculture, processed leather, made sculptures and rock accessories and possessed a significant belief system.

[Abramelin]

Looking at the pics of Gobekli, I am struck by the similarities to the ruins in Chaco Canyon,

New Mexico...

I know Gobekli is thousands of years older, and was built of megaliths rather than small

pieces of sandstone, but there seem to be similarities of architecture, and perhaps purpose...

Of course, the original purpose of both sites, is not known, but niether site exhibits much

in the way of signs of extensive habitation...

(Edit) Also, both sites were built using curved lines and circles, when straight lines would probably have been much easier to use...

Not trying to make any sort of connection between the two (obviously), just making an

observation...

That's funny: I do not see any resemblance at all.

[SHaYap]

Yes there is evidence of trade, but also evidence that they only periodically went there,

possibly was also a religious center - but no one is sure...

My own personal belief is that it (Chaco) was sort of a "State Fair" location - a "World

Expo" so to speak... A nuetral place where all cultures and trade partners could come and

trade, mingle, worship, etc in relative peace...

It is interesting that the tribes in the area (Hopi, Mescalero, Navajo, etc) all claim

Chaco as the 'Origin of the World' - or at least their people... Sort of a Garden of Eden -

though some accord it as a place of absolute Evil...

Perhaps Gobekli was similar in usage...

Look more into the early (very early) China cities/capitals, "Central/Middle Kingdom" or, the "source" a meaning not usually mentioned when translating "ChungKuo"

The character "chung" usally is translated too loosely, it means and applies much contrast to much more in the Chinese Language/dialects.

The silk road is now known to be used for far longer than the dates still in the academic sources, a re evaluation is currently going on. The silk road is 'known' to be used and was in existence though not in the current shape and form due to changes in the economic/early dynastic/warring climate of the ages.

It's new discoveries uncovering current speculations with greater information and knowledge of the times.

The old works very differently than the times we are used too, the world modern science inherited was in the early days dissected with very crude and in many cases ill informed and intentioned methods.

Marco Polo was the first to suffer under the bludgeons of modern 'common sense' he recanted his oath of truthfulness according to the common sense of the day.

When you read Marco's and a lot of the first true explorers of nations, the first nation walkers (apply your favorite list of Historians here, don't matter who) you must read it within the minds of the days, using that 'beginners' mind.

To us with an Asian background we read more with less and with greater familiarity.

My own opinion and believe is that people/humans/sapiens were in closer contact with each other for far longer than Modern Science can imagine, maybe even from the very first communal settlement in unrecorded history. Visits and contacts were just less frequent, and according to the signs of the seasons.

Being as isolated over vast expanses of time and distance, various distinctive cultures and languages would have evolved very early in human 'unrecorded' history, definitions of intelligence were different then and "modern" science demands too much of human 'intelligence'

One thing that usually confuses me is that, what if a "Temple Site A" was used for a long time then lost, left only in 'legends' then 'found' and 'revitalised' for a dawn of a new 'kingdom'

The site would be thoroughly 'cleaned' and 'cleansed' before being 'renovated' accordingly to the needs of the times.

What's left to be dated would not tell that part of the history.

Would it ?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

http://www.livescience.com/19085-world-oldest-temple-tools-pilgrimage.html

[crystal sage]

Just found this online... maybe a new way to explore this site ?

[crystal sage]

Evidence of a meteorite storm 12,000 years ago an explanation for the burial of Gobleki Tepe of why the people may have gone underground... the cause of the great floods... the coming ice age ? ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2158054/Scientists-discover-evidence-meteorite-storm-hit-Earth-13-000-years-ago-killed-prehistoric-civilisation.html

[Harsh86_Patel]

I believe it to be a hunters hall,were venerated hunters were honoured. Agriculturist must have buried the monument.

[TheSearcher]

I believe it to be a hunters hall,were venerated hunters were honoured. Agriculturist must have buried the monument.

What on earth is an agriculturist and why pray tell would they do this?

[lightly]

..someone earlier brought up Cain (the farmer/agriculturalist) Killing , his brother, Able, the shepherd/hunter ... and how that story might be based on an agricultural people conquering that area... Much earlier . . . ? Just thought that was an interesting and plausible idea?