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psychoticmike

is karma real or a belief?

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what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

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what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

I don't hold any religious views, but Karma is one I would like to believe is real. To me though, Karma is like the belief of 13 being a bad luck number. It's all about association. If you associate the good and the bad things that happen to people to Karma, then it becomes real to you.

I don't think that Karma is affecting you, but rather you are just thinking of your past wrongdoings and trying to make an association with something that offers some kind of explanation.

Doing "bad things" almost always has negative repercussions and I believe you would be paying for them with or without a belief in Karma.

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what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

it's a tough question to answer.

karma can only be deemed real if you can capture some evidence of it happening, and be able to determine that it is the only explanation for whatever occurred.

i believe in karma, but i wouldn't stake my life on whether it was real or not.

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Good Question Mike,

Although I don't believe a certain religion, I think Karma is a byproduct of being sentient and social. It's obviously more psychological then anything. Deepak Chopra has some interesting concepts, explanations and notions regarding the phenom. I seriously believe in Karma and if anything I would consider my way of life to be more related to Hinduism rather then Christianity. Not that I believe in certain "gods" or anything, just the philosophy of how to live your life and to be successful.

Mike, I think you told me you've read this book before, but you need to reread it, it's worth it, trust me! It's a handy little book that you should always refer back to, if anything. Even this summary would be enough, just to refresh your memory!

Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws Of Success...

There are many aspects to success; material wealth is only one component. Moreover, success is a journey, not a destination. Material abundance, in all its expressions, happens to be one of those things that makes the journey more enjoyable. But success also includes good health, energy and enthusiasm for life, fulfilling relationships, creative freedom, emotional and psychological stability, a sense of well-being and peace of mind. Even with the experience of all these things, we will remain unfulfilled unless we nurture the seeds of divinity inside us. In reality, we are divinity in disguise, and the gods and goddesses in embryo that are contained within us seek to be fully materialized. Although I call the laws I'm about to discuss The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, they could easily be called The Seven Spiritual Laws of Life. This is because they are the same principles that nature uses to create everything in material existence--everything we can see, hear, smell, taste or touch.

Success in life could be defined as the continued expansion of happiness and the progressive realization of worthy goals. Success is the ability to fulfill your desires with effortless ease. And yet success, including the creation of wealth, has always been considered a process that requires hard work, and it is often considered to be at the expense of others. We need a more spiritual approach to success and to affluence, which is the abundant flow of all good things to you. With the knowledge and practice of spiritual law, we put ourselves in harmony with nature and create with carefreeness, joy and love. True success is the experience of the miraculous. It is the unfolding of the divinity within us. It is the perception of divinity wherever we go, in whatever we perceive--in the eyes of a child, in the beauty of a flower, in the flight of a bird. When we begin to experience our life as the miraculous expression of divinity--not occasionally, but all the time--then we will know the true meaning of success.

Now let's go over The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success and see how we can apply them in our lives.

1) The Law of Pure Potentiality

This law is based on the fact that we are, in our essential state, pure consciousness. Pure consciousness is pure potentiality; it is the field of all possibilities and infinite creativity. When you discover your essential nature and know who you really are, in that knowing itself is the ability to fulfill any dream you have, because you are the eternal possibility, the immeasurable potential of all that was, is and will be. This law could also be called the Law of Unity, because underlying the infinite diversity of life is the unity of one all-pervasive spirit. There is no separation between you and this field of energy. One way to access the field is through the daily practice of silence, meditation and non-judgment. Spending time in nature will also give you access to the qualities inherent in the field: infinite creativity, freedom and bliss.

2) The Law of Giving

This law could also be called the Law of Giving and Receiving, because the universe operates through dynamic exchange. The flow of life is nothing other than the harmonious interaction of all the elements and forces that structure the field of existence. Because your body and your mind and the universe are in constant and dynamic change, stopping the circulation of energy is like stopping the flow of blood. Whenever blood stops flowing, it begins to clot, to stagnate. That is why you must give and receive in order to keep wealth and affluence--or anything you want--circulating in your life. If our only intention is to hold on to our money and hoard it--since it's life energy, we will stop its circulation back into our lives as well. In order to keep that energy coming to us, we have to keep the energy circulating. Thus, the more you give, the more you will receive. The best way to put The Law of Giving into operation is to make a decision that any time you come into contact with anyone, you will give them something. It doesn't have to be in the form of material things; it could be a flower, a compliment or a prayer. In fact, the most powerful forms of giving are non-material. The gifts of caring, attention, affection, appreciation and love are some of the most precious gifts you can give, and they don't cost you anything.

3) The Law of Karma (or Cause and Effect)

"Karma" is both action and the consequence of that action; it is cause and effect simultaneously, because every action generates a force of energy that returns to us in kind. There is nothing unfamiliar about the Law of Karma. Everyone had heard the expression, "What you sow is what you reap." Obviously, if we want to create happiness in our lives, we must learn to sow the seeds of happiness. Therefore, karma implies the action of conscious choice-making. Whether you like it or not, everything that is happening at this moment is a result of the choices you've made in the past. Unfortunately, a lot of us make choices unconsciously, and therefore we don't think they are choices--and yet, they are. If you step back for a moment and witness the choices you are making as you make those choices, then in just this act of witnessing, you take the whole process from the unconscious realm into the conscious realm. This procedure of conscious choice-making and witnessing is very empowering.You can use the Law of Karma to create money and affluence, and the flow of all good things to you, any time you want. But first, you must become consciously aware that your future is generated by the choices you are making in every moment of your life. If you do this on a regular basis, then you are making full use of this law. The more you bring your choices into the level of your conscious awareness, the more you will make those choices which are spontaneously correct--both for you and those around you.

4) The Law of Least Effort

This law is based on the fact that nature's intelligence functions with effortless ease and abandoned carefreeness. This is the principle of least action, of no resistance. This is, therefore, the principle of harmony and love. When we learn this lesson from nature, we easily fulfill our desires. In Vedic Science, the age-old philosophy of India, this principle is known as the principle of economy of effort, or "do less and accomplish more." Ultimately, you come to the state where you do nothing and accomplish everything. This means that there is just a faint idea, and then the manifestation of the idea comes about effortlessly. What is commonly called a "miracle" is actually an expression of the Law of Least Effort. Least effort is expended when your actions are motivated by love, because nature is held together by the energy of love. When you seek power and control over other people, you waste energy. When you seek money or power for the sake of the ego, you spend energy chasing the illusion of happiness instead of enjoying happiness in the moment. When your actions are motivated by love, your energy multiplies and accumulates--and the surplus energy you gather and enjoy can be channeled to create anything that you want, including unlimited wealth. There are three components to the Law of Least Effort--three things you can do to put this principle of "do less and accomplish more" into action. The first component is acceptance. Acceptance simply means that you make a commitment: "Today I will accept people, situations, circumstances and events as they occur." This means I will know that this moment is as it should be, because the whole universe is as it should be. The second component is responsibility. This means not blaming anyone or anything for your situation, including yourself. This allows you the ability to have a creative response to the situation as it is now. All problems contain the seeds of opportunity, and this awareness allows you to take the moment and transform it to a better situation or thing. The third component to the Law of Least Effort is defenselessness. This means that you have relinquished the need to convince or persuade others of your point of view. If you relinquish this need you will in that relinquishment gain access to enormous amounts of energy that have been previously wasted.

5) The Law of Intention and Desire

This law is based on the fact that energy and information exist everywhere in nature. A flower, a rainbow, a tree, a human body, when broken down to their essential components are energy and information. The whole universe, in its essential nature, is the movement of energy and information. The only difference between you and a tree is the informational and energy content of your respective bodies. You can consciously change the energy and informational content of your own quantum mechanical body, and therefore influence the energy and informational content of your extended body--your environment, your world--and cause things to manifest in it. The quality of intention on the object of attention will orchestrate an infinity of space-time events to bring about the outcome intended, provided one follows the other spiritual laws of success. Intention lays the groundwork for the effortless, spontaneous, frictionless flow of pure potentiality. The only caution is that you use your intent for the benefit of mankind.

6) The Law of Detachment

This law says that in order to acquire anything in the physical universe, you have to relinquish your attachment to it. This doesn't mean you give up the intention to create your desire. You give up your attachment to the result. This is a very powerful thing to do. The moment you relinquish your attachment to the result, combining one-pointed intention with detachment at the same time, you will have that which you desire. Anything you want can be acquired through detachment, because detachment is based on the unquestioning belief in the power of your true Self. Attachment comes from poverty consciousness, because attachment is always to symbols. Detachment is synonymous with wealth consciousness, because with detachment there is freedom to create. True wealth consciousness is the ability to have anything you want, anytime you want, and with least effort. To be grounded in this experience you have to be grounded in the wisdom of uncertainty. In this uncertainty you will find the freedom to create anything you want.

7) The Law of "Dharma" or Purpose in Life

The seventh spiritual law of success is the Law of Dharma. (Dharma is a Sanskrit word that means "purpose in life.") This law says that we have taken manifestation in physical form to fulfill a purpose. You have a unique talent and a unique way of expressing it. There is something that you can do better than anyone else in the whole world--and for every unique talent and unique expression of that talent, there are also unique needs. When these needs are matched with the creative expression of your talent, that is the spark that creates affluence. Expressing your talents to fulfill needs creates unlimited wealth and abundance. There are three components to the Law of Dharma. The first says that each of us is here to discover our true Self. The second component is to express our unique talents; the expression of that talent takes you into timeless awareness. The third component is service to humanity. When you combine the ability to express your unique talent with service to humanity, then you make full use of the Law of Dharma. The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success are powerful principles that will enable you to attain self-mastery. If you put your attention on these laws and practice the steps outlined above, you will see that you can manifest anything you want--all the affluence, money and success you desire. You will also see that your life becomes more joyful and abundant in every way, for these laws are also the spiritual laws of life that make living worthwhile.

Source

Hope this helps. As far as Karma being proven, that's a whole other issue. You can only believe it if it effects you enough. So, I guess you could say that it's a matter of opinion. When it comes to anything psychological, it's more intuitive then literal.

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Philosophy doesn't call it Karma , but it does explain that if we cause distress to others we incur a Debt to be paid off , so it's much the same thing , Hinduism and Buddhism call it Karma and Philosophy calls it a Debt .... However , if we go through life only doing good deeds then we build up Credit and that helps smooth our way .

This debt clearly shows up in our Numerological Chart , it would appear that we can postpone payment of our debt from one incarnation to the next , however , by so doing we may end up with more debt to pay off because it would be almost impossible to go through life with out treading on some ones toes , so any postponement would mean a likely build up of debt and that build up could make ones life a very difficult experience .

Some people experience their debt almost immediately while others experience all their debt in one lifetime .... How this works I can't explain , may be it was an agreement they entered into before reincarnation ?

So yes I do believe that if we cause harm to others in any way we will eventually be asked to make amends .

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Very bad things happen to very good people. How does karma work into that. I personally don't think karma is any more real then having a lucky rabbit's foot or a black cat crossing ones path.

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I've done bad things to which no repercussions ever arose, and I've done good things only to have bad happen to me. The only things I can come close to believing in are those that I see/learn myself. I'm an imperical person. If proof, or a relatively close approximation, of something can be seen than I'll likely believe it, and I haven't seen any proof of karma, either in my life or others' that I know.

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I see Karma as real, in the same way that the law of cause and effect is real. If I wish to increase my chances for happiness and the happiness of others, it would be best to do good things. But if I wish to increase my chances at unhappiness and make others unhappy, then simply do bad things. Bad things happen to good people, that cant be helped, but the kind actions of others may help them get through those bad times and alleviate their suffering a little bit. Good things happen to bad people, but its the good actions of people that keep this world from going completely insane.

Im not religeous at all, thats just my general observation, although the Buddhist view has influenced me to see Karma in that way. Karma. Cause and effect. ;)

Edited by Evilution13

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Karma is nothing more then a desire to have the ones who have wronged you suffer in some sort of manner. So really, believing or wishing for karma is in itself attracting some sort of karma back on oneself.

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Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws Of Success...

You can consciously change the energy and informational content of your own quantum mechanical body, and therefore influence the energy and informational content of your extended body--your environment, your world--and cause things to manifest in it.

Sorry, he's full of s***.

Edit. Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. Basically he's using the logical fallacy of resorting to quantum physics, and hoping people don't have the faculties to question it.

In summery, he's full of s***

Edited by Emma_Acid

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what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

It's really difficult to say, as many believe that karma passes on into your next life.

I am open to the idea, because I get that feeling of karma a lot. Things always seem to balance out based on my deeds each day.

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Emma,

I think you may be reading into it too much!

It's not to be taken literal, that part at least. It's more of a mind over matter thing. Like, once you change the negative aspects of your life, you will feel it physically.

Besides, this book has personally helped me keep focus on what's important in life. Plus, I have a circle of friends who turned me on to it, it seems to help them as well. Some of what he teaches may seem speculative to some, but it's the essence of what the message is that helps. Also, it didn't say quantum physics, it said quantum mechanical body. It's certainly a Hinduism reference. Philosophy can't be explained by math or physics, hence the metaphysical.

Edited by Mentalcase

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I think of Karma as a real law just as Evilution13 described it, above.

I believe it is a universal law of cause and effect.

People are often disturbed by seeing bad people happy and not suffering any consequences of their misdeeds but I believe they will have to pay in the long run.

Of course, it's easier to believe in Karma when you also believe in reincarnation, because, I can always fallback to the explination that if someone hasn't been punished or rewarded (so to speak), then they will be in their next life...

Edited by Paxus

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I think of Karma as a real law just as Evilution13 described it, above.

I believe it is a universal law of cause and effect.

People are often disturbed by seeing bad people happy and not suffering any consequences of their misdeeds but I believe they will have to pay in the long run.

Of course, it's easier to believe in Karma when you also believe in reincarnation, because, I can always fallback to the explination that if someone hasn't been punished or rewarded (so to speak), then they will be in their next life...

thanks for your input pax! i believe in karma because of what i have been through, and what i have done, sure i have gotten away with a lot of things and at the time was happy and for a while enjoyed myself and everything was going my way, but then i hit a period of my life where it really seemed like it all came back to haunt me. For a while, every positive change i attempted to make in my life, always ended in complete failure. I think karma is real, and that your deeds do not go unpunished, but it affects you in different ways in the future.

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I don't hold any religious views, but Karma is one I would like to believe is real. To me though, Karma is like the belief of 13 being a bad luck number. It's all about association. If you associate the good and the bad things that happen to people to Karma, then it becomes real to you.

I don't think that Karma is affecting you, but rather you are just thinking of your past wrongdoings and trying to make an association with something that offers some kind of explanation.

Doing "bad things" almost always has negative repercussions and I believe you would be paying for them with or without a belief in Karma.

thanks thats an interesting perspective.

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it's a tough question to answer.

karma can only be deemed real if you can capture some evidence of it happening, and be able to determine that it is the only explanation for whatever occurred.

i believe in karma, but i wouldn't stake my life on whether it was real or not.

yeah i guess your right, to me it seems to exist but i have always wondered if it only existed because people believed in it, so it affected them for that reason.

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Good Question Mike,

Although I don't believe a certain religion, I think Karma is a byproduct of being sentient and social. It's obviously more psychological then anything. Deepak Chopra has some interesting concepts, explanations and notions regarding the phenom. I seriously believe in Karma and if anything I would consider my way of life to be more related to Hinduism rather then Christianity. Not that I believe in certain "gods" or anything, just the philosophy of how to live your life and to be successful.

Mike, I think you told me you've read this book before, but you need to reread it, it's worth it, trust me! It's a handy little book that you should always refer back to, if anything. Even this summary would be enough, just to refresh your memory!

Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws Of Success...

Source

Hope this helps. As far as Karma being proven, that's a whole other issue. You can only believe it if it effects you enough. So, I guess you could say that it's a matter of opinion. When it comes to anything psychological, it's more intuitive then literal.

thanks mentalcase, yeah its been quite a while since i read that book.

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Philosophy doesn't call it Karma , but it does explain that if we cause distress to others we incur a Debt to be paid off , so it's much the same thing , Hinduism and Buddhism call it Karma and Philosophy calls it a Debt .... However , if we go through life only doing good deeds then we build up Credit and that helps smooth our way .

This debt clearly shows up in our Numerological Chart , it would appear that we can postpone payment of our debt from one incarnation to the next , however , by so doing we may end up with more debt to pay off because it would be almost impossible to go through life with out treading on some ones toes , so any postponement would mean a likely build up of debt and that build up could make ones life a very difficult experience .

Some people experience their debt almost immediately while others experience all their debt in one lifetime .... How this works I can't explain , may be it was an agreement they entered into before reincarnation ?

So yes I do believe that if we cause harm to others in any way we will eventually be asked to make amends .

do you think we would have to pay amends if we harmed someone in self defense? what about immaturity? i committed most of these acts in my adolescence, therefor at the time i did not really realize how it affected others and because of how i was treated i did not care, for i felt at the time it was justified.

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Very bad things happen to very good people. How does karma work into that. I personally don't think karma is any more real then having a lucky rabbit's foot or a black cat crossing ones path.

true, but i was a very bad person because people were very bad to me, and it was only through maturing that i became a good person (or at least fairly)if reincarnation exists maybe those good people were bad in a previous life? i did a lot of bad things and then a lot more bad things happened to me, which made me read a lot to try to figure out why i had such a bad life, and it was through learning that made me see why i was the way i was, and why i did the things i did, and that made me think in radical new ways which turned me into a much better person.

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Karma is BS. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. Bad people can live up to be 90 while good people might die at 20. There's no evidence to prove Karma exists at all. Actually, bad things happen to everyone. With that said, if something bad happens to a bad person, people call it karma. I just call it life.

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Hey P-Mike , I apologize for not getting back to this post sooner but I've been away for five days .

Numerology clearly shows whether or not we came into this life loaded down with Debt .... However , if you tell a person that they have major sacrifice and upheaval to deal with mostly they want to shoot the messenger .... Nobody wants to hear bad news .

If we came into this life without debt and then cause chaos , then yes I believe that constitutes debt to be eventually faced at some time in the future .

You could ask among your friends if they know of a numerologist in your local area who might look at your birth date free of charge ?..... There are some on line sites that explain how to work out your own chart , but I wouldn't advise putting your personal details out there on the internet .

It's a very brave man who wants to look into his future , I no longer do charts because mostly people don't like hearing the results , my estimation is that 99% of the population has some debt to pay off , but for some unknown reason people only want to hear that they will come into great wealth and face no hardship what so ever ...... Any how I wish you good luck for the future .

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I believe that Karma is like a sugar pill, a placebo. It works if you beleive in it, but then so does just about every religion and philosophy.

Those who believe in karma explain the bad things happening to good people as past life actions comming around to affect the present.

Bad stuff happening to bad people and good stuff happening to good people is not Karma, IMHO, but is simply ironic chance.

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Karma is both real and false because both exists, true karma and false karma.

The confusion stems from the definitions of "good" and "bad"

The term "blessing in disguise" defines it quite well.

The term true karma is the direct consequences from actions.

You do something defined as good then something defined as good is expected to return to you as is the reverse.

Time is the pivot the balances the equation.

False karma stems from indirect consequences. You might do "good" but a lot of people associated with you does bad hence bad things also is associated with you is just a very basic example. In time you might overcome the bad things that test your resolve but then only time decides.

One common misconception is that one can "define" what or when karma is or is not. One does not know. Karma is all encompassing and unbroken stream. It's not a counter you can "cash in" your good karma points or deduct bad karma debts.

Karma isn't a thing or a place or time. You're in it as is everyone else. When people around you do bad things, the repercussions do not differentiate. Example is someone digging a hole in your front yard and someone fall in it. You too is held responsible even if you weren't the one for it. and karma is believed to be timeless. Something you do today might just float up to affect someone very far in the future just as something happening today might have been set in motion by someone thousand of years ago. The varying degrees of the effect depends on what you did a moment ago.

Karma is a good thing if we can properly define a good thing.

"Be careful what you wish for ... you just might get it" is as close to the Eastern attitude available from the West

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I believe in karma,ying and yang,etc, etc. I feel that these words only describe the law of existance and the universe. I am a firm believer that negative attracts negative and positive attracts positive.--Robbie

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I think a person's karma is a moment by moment occurrence in real time, not some other-worldly spiritual law. What one does this moment effects what happens in the next moment. It's more of a cause and effect phenomenon. Of course, one can do good all the time and still bad things will happen on its own accord, as has been stated elswhere here. Where is the karma in this?

The other thing I've noticed is that good and bad seem to be both represented. When something bad happens, there is usually some beneficial side to the occurrence and vice versa, if one looks into it deeply enough. Where is the karma here?

There's a Zen story of a farmer who's horse runs away, and his neighbors gather around him and say what a shame it is. The farmer says, "Maybe". The next day his horse returns with four wild horses, and his neighbors congratulate him on his good fortune, and the farmer says, "Maybe". Trying to tame one of the wild horses the farmer's son falls and breaks his leg. The neighbors tell him what a cruel thing to have happened, and the farmer again replies, "Maybe". Next day an army recruiter comes along to draft the farmer's son into the army. Seeing his son's broken leg his is passed up. What good luck, the neighbors say. The farmer replies, "Maybe".

I think life is like this. One's karma sometimes seems to obey some karmic law, while other times it seems random and not related to one's behavior at all. So, where's the karma?

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