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Why People Believe in Conspiracies

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The article is here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

My personal favourite bit:

But as former Nixon aide G. Gordon Liddy once told me (and he should know!), the problem with government conspiracies is that bureaucrats are incompetent and people can’t keep their mouths shut. Complex conspiracies are difficult to pull off, and so many people want their quarter hour of fame that even the Men in Black couldn’t squelch the squealers from spilling the beans. So there’s a good chance that the more elaborate a conspiracy theory is, and the more people that would need to be involved, the less likely it is true.

So what do you guys think about this?

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I simply agree with that. Anything big WOULD be found out. I mean, government officials can't even keep their affairs secret,and those happen between 2 people in a closed room. :rolleyes:

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I simply agree with that. Anything big WOULD be found out. I mean, government officials can't even keep their affairs secret,and those happen between 2 people in a closed room. :rolleyes:

Of course with the way conspiracy theorists are the whole nature of it would mean they could turn around and say "that's what they want you to think!" :lol:

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The promotion of conspiracy theories might well be a giant conspiracy, I mean "they" might want you to concentrate on the wacky stuff, like the moon hoax story, while the real conspiracies slip under the radar. No wonder those U.S. bills have got " In God We Trust " printed on them, or is that part of a conspiracy too ? Paranoia knows no bounds, trust me on that one. :innocent:

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The article is here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

My personal favourite bit:

So what do you guys think about this?

I think that enormous government-backed ‘conspiracies’ such as Operation Gladio, Operation Northwoods and Operation Ajax amongst others went unrevealed for decades and this on its own squelches the paragraph you quoted.

The article references 9/11.

Explain why one person behind the false flag attack would speak out.

It doesn’t make sense.

The information that is provided by whistleblowers on the fringe of the operation is consistently disregarded by the media and public at large.

So sure, a large ‘conspiracy’ can’t exist to most peoples’ minds… until an official source confirms it.

:rolleyes:

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I think there are a lot of people out there who have to much time on their hands.

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The promotion of conspiracy theories might well be a giant conspiracy, I mean "they" might want you to concentrate on the wacky stuff, like the moon hoax story, while the real conspiracies slip under the radar. No wonder those U.S. bills have got " In God We Trust " printed on them, or is that part of a conspiracy too ? Paranoia knows no bounds, trust me on that one. :innocent:

"In God We Trust" was put on our currency during the 1950s. This was during the cold war, to show that the "commies" were Godless heathens, and we had to be scared of them. No conspiracy, everything was right out in the open: ignorance and arrogance.

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The promotion of conspiracy theories might well be a giant conspiracy, I mean "they" might want you to concentrate on the wacky stuff, like the moon hoax story, while the real conspiracies slip under the radar. No wonder those U.S. bills have got " In God We Trust " printed on them, or is that part of a conspiracy too ? Paranoia knows no bounds, trust me on that one. :innocent:

Indeed, I've often thought that, that some of the more outré ones might have been planted to discredit those who have a (very often entirely healthy) distrust of governments. A prime example being (not wanting to derail this by starting any arguments about it, just as an example) 9/11, where people are put off from asking some of the questions that I think could quite legitimately be asked by some of the wackier fringe theories.

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I think that enormous government-backed ‘conspiracies’ such as Operation Gladio, Operation Northwoods and Operation Ajax amongst others went unrevealed for decades and this on its own squelches the paragraph you quoted.

The article references 9/11.

Explain why one person behind the false flag attack would speak out.

It doesn’t make sense.

The information that is provided by whistleblowers on the fringe of the operation is consistently disregarded by the media and public at large.

So sure, a large ‘conspiracy’ can’t exist to most peoples’ minds… until an official source confirms it.

:rolleyes:

There's a big difference between something being a secret vs something being a conspiracy and, frankly, comparing those operations you list above to something like 9/11 is apples and oranges.

Equating the deaths of 3,000+ Americans to paramilitary operations in Italy, a false flag operation that never went beyond proposal stage, and the US-led coup in Iran that returned the Shah to power that pretty much everyone knows about doesn't make sense at all.

Not to mention all three of those examples happened decades ago when we weren't all fame grubbing glory hounds.

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As someone who works in a federal government I find a lot of conspiracy theories that are thrown around just foolish. I can't see how the government can kill thousands of people with a needlessly complex plan without anyone noticing when it takes them a damn month to get my desk set up properly.

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There's a big difference between something being a secret vs something being a conspiracy and, frankly, comparing those operations you list above to something like 9/11 is apples and oranges.

Equating the deaths of 3,000+ Americans to paramilitary operations in Italy, a false flag operation that never went beyond proposal stage, and the US-led coup in Iran that returned the Shah to power that pretty much everyone knows about doesn't make sense at all.

Not to mention all three of those examples happened decades ago when we weren't all fame grubbing glory hounds.

I didn’t equate 9/11 to those other ‘conspiracies’ – at best there are a few comparisons that could be drawn. I used the examples specifically to show that an operation can be elaborate, involve many people and still be quite true.

I then moved on to ask why anyone behind the 9/11 false flag attack would reveal the role they played… and I’ve never had a sensible answer to that. Obviously they don’t plan for years, action the operation, get the results and then sit down for an interview with the media to tell everyone about it.

I pointed out that when information has been released by individuals on the periphery of the operation, for example, the fact that Silverstein was seeking to authorise a controlled demolition of WTC7 on the day, that the hijackers appeared to be receiving protection in the United States or that foreign and domestic government agents are implicated, etc etc etc, this is mostly ignored anyway.

I then concluded from the three separate issues above that ‘conspiracy theory’ only becomes ‘conspiracy fact’ for the… I’m going to say it… sheeple when an official source confirms it and/or, as you say, the event becomes so far removed from memory that it is no longer worth denying.

I hope that explains.

And what’s a ‘fame grubbing glory hound’ anyway? :D

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As someone who works in a federal government I find a lot of conspiracy theories that are thrown around just foolish. I can't see how the government can kill thousands of people with a needlessly complex plan without anyone noticing when it takes them a damn month to get my desk set up properly.

Yeah… because moving a desk is very much like a high-level covert op.

And I got called out for my comparison?

:blink:

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Every time I get the bill from the dentist I am reminded that.....

" Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity "

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I think a lot of conspriracies are nonsense but I do believe in some of them

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I then moved on to ask why anyone behind the 9/11 false flag attack would reveal the role they played… and I’ve never had a sensible answer to that. Obviously they don’t plan for years, action the operation, get the results and then sit down for an interview with the media to tell everyone about it.

For a start, you've proposed a scenario that needs a lot of technical development - remotely-piloted aircraft, new demolition techniques - and also claimed, in order to keep the numbers involved down, that the technical experts would not need to be in on the conspiracy. Why would those technical experts keep quiet when they discovered what their work had been used for? Apart from that, among the thousands that would have to have been involved, there are bound to be a few people who have consciences, or who find Jesus and repent, or don't think they are being paid enough for their silence and think they could get more by going public.

There is a lot of difference between keeping quiet about something you could take some pride in, however misplaced, and keeping quiet about being involved in mass murder.

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For a start, you've proposed a scenario that needs a lot of technical development - remotely-piloted aircraft, new demolition techniques - and also claimed, in order to keep the numbers involved down, that the technical experts would not need to be in on the conspiracy. Why would those technical experts keep quiet when they discovered what their work had been used for? Apart from that, among the thousands that would have to have been involved, there are bound to be a few people who have consciences, or who find Jesus and repent, or don't think they are being paid enough for their silence and think they could get more by going public.

There is a lot of difference between keeping quiet about something you could take some pride in, however misplaced, and keeping quiet about being involved in mass murder.

Just a question: What if they are sick enough to take pride in being involved with mass murder? Just a thought.

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Just a question: What if they are sick enough to take pride in being involved with mass murder? Just a thought.

Every single one of the thousands involved?

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Just a question: What if they are sick enough to take pride in being involved with mass murder? Just a thought.

They don’t even have to be sick exactly.

People generally put too high value on their own importance – the average individual is concerned with their own comfort and general petty affairs; what they are having for dinner that day or doing at the weekend, etc. Those at the extreme top of leadership are focussed on driving global agendas and it has been shown that they can view the population as an irrelevance or more as a resource of the country; that is, dispensable. It is naturally a whole different mindset that each level is based upon.

Ask yourself…

Would certain Zionist groups exchange your life to for increased safety of the State of Israel?

Would certain Neocon groups exchange your life to secure continued American pre-eminence?

Of course the answer is yes.

Except they aren’t going to come right out and tell you that.

Now would you personally agree to the above exchange?

Of course the answer is no.

The questions are extreme but serve to prove the point - there are different values at work.

I see little difference whether it is one life or thousands involved in these circumstances.

Every single one of the thousands involved?

A few dozen Americans with assistance from foreign sources I would actually think.

Of course some level of expertise would be required though I suggest mostly from those foreign sources and the technology required was hardly groundbreaking – we have seen an engineer set up a simple thermite device to cut a steel column in his back garden despite your own claims that it could not be done.

The question that MstrMsn asked and my response debunk the rest of your opinion.

Your defence is wholly reliant on the idea that everyone has the same values.

History has shown and basic logic dictates that they don’t.

Though this is all too frightening and alien for many people to accept.

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Now, i don't mean to get involved in another 9/11 discussion, but I've never really understood this argument.

... I then moved on to ask why anyone behind the 9/11 false flag attack would reveal the role they played… and I’ve never had a sensible answer to that. Obviously they don’t plan for years, action the operation, get the results and then sit down for an interview with the media to tell everyone about it.

So all the people involved, then, would have been utterly brainwashed fanatics who do not have a shred of conscience between any of them? And they've been able to live with knowledge of being involved in this for 10 years now? And in that time, not one of them has come forward? I feel that that stretches plausibility somewhat. Think of all the people (supposedly) involved in UFO coverups who've spoken up, and they were (or so they claim) involved in something that was enormously less of a crime that this (supposedly) was. This whole concept is one of the things that I've remarked about before, that it always seems to be the reverse of Occam's Razor; it can't just be that governments let something happen, or that it did happen the way it appeared to, but the hijackers weren't necessarily the ones that the goverment wants to make out; but there has to be some enormous alternative plot, which has to be the most complicated possible.

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Just a question: What if they are sick enough to take pride in being involved with mass murder? Just a thought.

And if, perhaps, there were some that are, mightn't they have let something slip about their involvement as well? If you were that proud of what you'd done, wouldn't you want to boast about it, perhaps after one or two too many one evening? But has there ever been anyone who's come forward and claimed to have been involved in a plot by the US Governbment to stage 9/11, either through guilt or pride?

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Of course some level of expertise would be required though I suggest mostly from those foreign sources and the technology required was hardly groundbreaking – we have seen an engineer set up a simple thermite device to cut a steel column in his back garden despite your own claims that it could not be done.

That would still make a bang and in any case is hardly representative of the actual problem. An unsupported column can be cut and will topple over, but what happens if the column is supported at both ends so the top can't topple, which is the case for a large structure like a building? I'll tell you what I think. The top will drop through the width of the cut and weld itself back on the bottom. I await your backyard demo that I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by flyingswan

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Your defence is wholly reliant on the idea that everyone has the same values.

History has shown and basic logic dictates that they don’t.

My argument was the exact opposite of "everyone has the same values". I said that in any large group there are bound to be a few who have a conscience or some other motive to go public.

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I don't buy that it was an inside job. There are way too many variables that would be involved. All of which have been said, and when it comes down to it, 747400 and flyingswan to bring up a valid point. With any amount of people that would have to be involved, there's no way that not even one person would stay quiet. Then again, they could always silence them, however, anyone involved will be big enough in the public eye that any death will be questioned by the media.

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I then moved on to ask why anyone behind the 9/11 false flag attack would reveal the role they played… and I’ve never had a sensible answer to that. Obviously they don’t plan for years, action the operation, get the results and then sit down for an interview with the media to tell everyone about it.

There are hundreds of reasons why someone becomes a whistle blower - revenge, fame, and money are the most obvious.

Given the general level of hatred toward the Bush Adminstration, anyone coming out with proof that they carried out 9/11 would be set for life and would be one of more famous people in American history for decades to come.

Why is that kind of scenario so unlikely in your mind?

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