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Hazzard

Best evidence for ET visitation - 3rd edition

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I would Love to See the Line of people that would say that what they saw that night was not Flares. And then the Line of people that say that what they saw ,was Flares.

We could Line them all up 70 miles away out in the desert and I`ll Fly my B.B.Q smoker across the sky at Thirty three thousand feet at ,? Lets say Mach 30 or there abouts twenty knts might be better.

Then we can ask what each group thought they saw.

Very scientific ! you see. So nyone for a Cruise to Phoneix?

p.s. On a Very Serioue note I have word that Mid is doing well and may be back soon to post on the Space Threads.

We can Thank Waspie and Saru for this ! Way to Go Mid ! We all Miss you !

post-68971-0-16815000-1303699009_thumb.j

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I think I get it BooNy thank you. :blush: Let's not hold our breath though.

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[best Evidence]

Actual Video of an Abduction taking place.

Also check blog source below for Alien Abduction explained in detail

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That said, the old laptop I'm using is on its last legs, so I might be back to only my iPhone sooner than I want... :cry:

Looks like I spoke - or rather typed - too soon... The old laptop packed it in tonight so I am back to only having my iPhone for the time being, which will once again limit my posting here.

From the looks of things, though, Peri, booNy and LS have everything here well in hand... :)

Cz

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Sucks to hear that Cz, sorry man. Hopefully you'll be back on an actual machine before too long. But I guess the iPhone is better than nothing.

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Then I used a bastardized estimate from lost_shaman's previous calculations for each of these three lights (final values in green). The numbers came out somewhat higher using LS's calcs versus the approximations from the above web site,

Hey booN,

Just for reference and clarification purposes, below are your calcs. plugging your numbers vs. my own for Tom Chavez and the Tower.

Tom Chavez -

Left light.

booN ~12513.8' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~12519.3' minimum visible altitude

Right Light.

booN ~13206.2' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~13348.9' minimum visible altitude

Middle Light.

booN ~13712.6' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~13935.2' minimum visible altitude

Sky Harbor Tower -

Left Light.

booN ~7935.7' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~8074.1' minimum visible altitude

Right Light.

booN ~10938.9' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~11094.8' minimum visible altitude

Middle Light.

booN ~12715.1' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~12615.5' minimum visible altitude

This shows using your numbers that our calculations are very close in agreement.

Edited by lost_shaman

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Sucks to hear that Cz, sorry man. Hopefully you'll be back on an actual machine before too long. But I guess the iPhone is better than nothing.

I'll Second that booN!

Hope you get back on your 'digital' feet sooner rather than later Cz!

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Hey guys,

Great job on the math stuff...not that it helps me in anyway and I'm reconsidering going back to school for my math degree now.

As per your correction of my typo BooN, it's Tucson, not Tuscon. It looks really funny to me when I see it written like that. :P

LS, Peri, Boon, I'm confused (as usual) as to what this all means. Is it just describing how the flares disappeared at certain angles/timelines/etc. behind the mountains? And if so, is this all based on speed of disappearance because I'm thinking eventually anything (not just flares) eventually cannot be seen after so long?

(Sighs in frustration/disappointment of never being able to follow this thread no matter how hard I try) :hmm:

I think it's to do with sines and cosines. :unsure2:

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Hey booN,

Just for reference and clarification purposes, below are your calcs. plugging your numbers vs. my own for Tom Chavez and the Tower.

Tom Chavez -

Left light.

booN ~12513.8' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~12519.3' minimum visible altitude

Right Light.

booN ~13206.2' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~13348.9' minimum visible altitude

Middle Light.

booN ~13712.6' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~13935.2' minimum visible altitude

Sky Harbor Tower -

Left Light.

booN ~7935.7' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~8074.1' minimum visible altitude

Right Light.

booN ~10938.9' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~11094.8' minimum visible altitude

Middle Light.

booN ~12715.1' minimum visible altitude

l_s... ~12615.5' minimum visible altitude

This shows using your numbers that our calculations are very close in agreement.

Very cool, good to know that we are in the same ball park. :tu:

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UFOs, Alien abductions, Area 51, Cattle mutilations, Crop circles, Alien structures and artifacts on the moon and Mars...

I call crop circles "crap circles". That's because they're hoaxes to be sure.

HItman

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ETA: Nevermind...

Edited by lost_shaman

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For guys that allegedly (according to one member) don't "do their homework", most of you really impress me with your knowledge and your passion for the truth. Sometimes I get impatient with the apparent dwelling on details, but that's just me. It's pretty easy for me (and no doubt others) to see who's actually done their homework and those who have only been reading comic books.

My hat's off to you gentlemen. (And ladies.) I've learned a lot lurking here.

Hey someoldguy,

I think you are correct. The 'homework' question should be quite clearly answered at this point.

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Its a lot like the Guys yacking about the facts that the "Higgs Boson particle" has not been proven !

Yet ,of if ever,of even what it will really all mean to mankind.

Its all in the way one looks at something.

Where`s the best evidence for E.T ?

We have none at this moment!

Only that we are here and that means What?

It means that anything is Possible. Think Big !

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I call crop circles "crap circles". That's because they're hoaxes to be sure.

HItman

No argument from me. :)

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I call crop circles "crap circles". That's because they're hoaxes to be sure.

HItman

Even if that may be so, tehy're still pretty darn impressive, though.

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I call crop circles "crap circles". That's because they're hoaxes to be sure.

IMO crop circles may not be best evidence for ET's, but they are best evidence for highly creative (human) beings with too much time on their hands.

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So I'm taking a stab at this math business in an effort to determine if one of the witnesses from within the city could have seen the flares over the BGR as well. From skyeagle's videos, we do have one witness who actually gave us a location to work with for these calculations. Tom Chavez stated that he was at the intersection of 27th Avenue and Van Buren. Using Google Earth to place the K, L, and R locations with much more precision (thanks for the idea Peri!) and triangulated to the positions of the same 3 lights that Bruce Maccabee focused on for comparison between the 3 videos (Lights 1, 2, and 9 from the K array which he referenced as Left Light, Right Light, and Middle Light respectively.) You can see this in Figure 18 on page 3 of Maccabee's analysis. I basically just added this to Google Earth to confirm, and sure enough it pretty much pans out just as Peri's previous post showed.

I didn't add in the other lights from the K array because I wanted to speculate and guess as little as possible. I might come back to this later in an effort to conclude the whole K array with estimated locations and altitudes, but for now this should suffice to prove the key point that flares dropped over the BGR can indeed be seen from where known witnesses reported their sightings.

From the initial confirmation of Maccabee's analysis regarding K, L, and R, I added a point for Tom Chavez and his location at the time of the sighting at 27th Ave and Van Buren and calculated the distance to the triangulated lights as well as the distance to the highest point of elevation in the mountain range along the track to each light. That information and the calculations are in the first Spoiler (using spoiler so that the math phobic among us don't need to look at it).

The short version is that Tom Chavez could have definitely seen some of the flares, but probably not all of them. I suspect that if I added the remaining flares from the K array that he would have been able to see several of the flares.

The long version:

Tom Chavez

Intersection of 27th Avenue and Van Buren

Elevation:

1070 ft.

Latitude:

33°27'3.91"N

Longitude:

112° 7'3.08"W

Distance to left light 60.04 Miles (317011.2'), at 204.59 degree heading

Distance to right light 64.38 Miles (339926.4') , at 210.26 degree heading

Distance to middle light 66.24 Miles (349747.2'), at 207.85 degree heading

Distance to Mountains at 3860ft elevation, 16.53 miles (87278.4') (track to left light) 24.49 degrees from mountain to Tom

Distance to Mountains at 3640ft elevation, 15.6 miles (82368') (track to right light) 30.18 degrees from mountain to Tom

Distance to Mountains at 3698ft elevation, 15.78 miles (83318.4') (track to middle light) 207.85 degrees from Tom to mountain

With this data I tried two different methods to calculate the minimum visible altitude from Tom's position to each of the three confirmed lights. First I calculated the angles by creating a right triangle from Tom to the mountains and then extended at the same angle to the full distance to each light which gave me an estimated altitude not including earth curvature (final values in red). To add the earth curvature I used estimates provided on this web page:

http://www.davidsene...e_of_sight.html which lists height adjustment of 2380' for 60 miles and 3240' for 70 miles. This seems close enough of an approximation and I believe that it accounts not only for the curvature of the earth, but also the anticipated effect of ray diffraction.

Then I used a bastardized estimate from lost_shaman's previous calculations for each of these three lights (final values in green). The numbers came out somewhat higher using LS's calcs versus the approximations from the above web site, but regardless of that we can see that some of the lights in the array would indeed have been visible from Tom's position for a short period of time, but probably not all and probably not for very long.

My calcs are below, hopefully you can make sense of them.

Triangle from Tom to Mountains track to Left Light

side a = 3860 - 1070 = 2790

side b = 87278.4

side c = *87322.98

Angle A = 1.83093 degrees

Extend side b 60.04 Miles (317011.2') to Left Light at 1.83093 degrees = 10133.78251 feet, add 2380ft from estimate = ~12513.8' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 2790 ft @ 87278.4 feet, then 2790/87278.4 = .031966672166309 arctan = 1.8309319 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 2.4tan x 317011.2 = 13286.7' minimum visible altitude

Triangle from Tom to Mountains track to Right Light

side a = 3640 - 1070 = 2570

side b = 82368

side c = *82408.084

Angle A = 1.78713 degrees

Extend side b 64.38 Miles (339926.4') to Right Light at 1.78713 degrees = 10606.18703 feet, add 2600ft from estimate = ~13206.2' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 2570 ft @ 82368 feet, then 2570/82368 = .03120143745143745 arctan = 1.7871308 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 2.4tan x 339926.4 = 14247.1' minimum visible altitude

Triangle from Tom to Mountains track to Middle Light

side a = 3698 - 1070 = 2628

side b = 83318.4

side c = *83359.835

Angle A = 1.8066 degrees

Extend side b 66.24 Miles (349747.2') to Middle Light at 1.78713 degrees = 10912.60995 feet, add 2800ft from estimate = 13712.6' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 2628 ft @ 83318.4 feet, then 2628/83318.4 = .031541652264 arctan = 1.8066046 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 2.4tan x 349747.2 = 14658.7' minimum visible altitude

Also from the videos, Lynne Kitei mentions calling the Air Traffic Controllers at Sky Harbor Airport and she stated that they also saw the lights, but nothing on RADAR. She mentions that they saw 6 points of light thru binoculars, behind South Mountain. So I decided to do the math from this location as well. Sure enough, they could definitely see the lights. In fact, they could definitely see the full array from the tower, no doubt about it.

The long version:

Sky Harbor Tower

Elevation at base 1121 ft

Elevation at top of tower 1303 ft

Latitude:

33°26'7.74"N

Longitude:

112° 0'35.82"W

Distance to left light 61.96 Miles (327148.8'), at 210.28 degree heading

Distance to right light 66.85 Miles (352968') , at 215.37 degree heading

Distance to middle light 68.46 Miles (361468.8'), at 212.92 degree heading

Distance to Mountains at 3139ft elevation, 20.55 miles (108504') (track to left light) 210.29 degrees from tower to mountain

Distance to Mountains at 3710ft elevation, 19.77 miles (104385.6') (track to right light) 215.35 degrees from tower to mountain

Distance to Mountains at 4130ft elevation, 20.34 miles (107395.2') (track to middle light) 212.91 degrees from tower to mountain

Triangle from Tower to Mountains track to Left Light

side a = 3139 - 1303 = 1836

side b = 108504

side c = *108519.5324

Angle A = 0.96941 degrees

Extend side b 61.96 Miles (327148.8') to Left Light at 0.96941 degrees = 5535.68843 feet, add 2400ft from estimate = ~7935.7' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 1836 ft @ 108504 feet, then 1836/108504 = .016921035 arctan = 0.9694114 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 1.57tan x 327148.8 = 8966.67' minimum visible altitude

Triangle from Tower to Mountains track to Right Light

side a = 3710 - 1303 = 2407

side b = 104385.6

side c = *104413.3475

Angle A = 1.32093 degrees

Extend side b 66.85 Miles (352968') to Left Light at 1.32093 degrees = 8138.97022 feet, add 2800ft from estimate = ~10938.9' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 2407 ft @ 104385.6 feet, then 2407/104385.6 = .023058736 arctan = 1.3209342 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 1.92tan x 352968 = 11832.5' minimum visible altitude

Triangle from Tower to Mountains track to Middle Light

side a = 4130 - 1303 = 2827

side b = 107395.2

side c = *107432.40159

Angle A = 1.50787 degrees

Extend side b 68.46 Miles (361468.8') to Left Light at 1.50787 degrees = 9515.07829 feet, add 3200ft from estimate = ~12715.1' minimum visible altitude

or, using an estimation from LS's calcs:

Difference in elevation 2827 ft @ 107395.2 feet, then 2827/107395.2 = .0263233366 arctan = 1.5078679 degrees add .6 degrees for ~curvature = 2.11tan x 361468.8 = 13317.63' minimum visible altitude

Here is a screen shot taken from Google Earth of the primary locations involved.

5650223295_15936c1cd1_b.jpg

Here are the resources I used for analysis, just in case anyone else wants to try their hand at this or doublecheck my work.

Google Earth

White Pages

Arctan Calculator

Right Triangle Angle And Side Calculator

David Senesac's Visual Line of Sight Calculations for Earth's Curvature

:geek:

So there you have it. So far everyone we've been able to peg down a sighting location for appears to be perfectly capable of seeing flares that were dropped at about 15,000 feet over the BGR. Assuming that I didn't horrendously screw up my calculations here anyway... And if I did, I'd love to be told where so that I can learn. :tu:

Cheers.

The Air Force said that they were ignited at 3000 feet and only a single A-10 was involved, and then all of a sudden, more A-10s were involved. On another note, aircraft that close to Davis-Monthan AFB, the A-10s would be nowhere near 15000 feet, and that was another hint, which is why the Air Force had said they were dropped from 6000 feet, and ignited at 3000 feet., and once again, they were not flares.

Just buy a ticket to Phoenix and see why no flares would be visible in Phoenix if over the BGR. Most people of Phoenix who have lived there for many years, have never seen flares before and how long has the BGR been in operation by the military?

You can throw figures all over the place but there is nothing like being there in person to see where the nubers don't add up..

Hint #15

Edited by skyeagle409

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I read this post about fifty times. It's just me guys, I get confused easily.

When you see figures and numbers fly all over the place from those who have never been to Phoenix, watch out!

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When you see figures and numbers fly all over the place from those who have never been to Phoenix, watch out!

When I see figures and numbers fly all over the place from anyone, regardless of where they've been, confusion sets in! :blush:

edit for grammar and a typo.

Edited by arenee

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The Air Force said that they were ignited at 3000 feet and only a single A-10 was involved, and then all of a sudden, more A-10s were involved. On another note, aircraft that close to Davis-Monthan AFB, the A-10s would be nowhere near 15000 feet, and that was another hint, which is why the Air Force had said they were dropped from 6000 feet, and ignited at 3000 feet., and once again, they were not flares.

Just buy a ticket to Phoenix and see why no flares would be visible in Phoenix if over the BGR. Most people of Phoenix who have lived there for many years, have never seen flares before and how long has the BGR been in operation by the military?

The Air Force didn't say they were ignited at 3000 feet. We've been through all of this before skyeagle, you're simply mistaken. Get over it already.

Speaking of mistaken, I was mistaken about something as well. I didn't discover my mistake until I was playing around with Google Earth some more, but the mistake is that Maccabee was right about the peak to left of flare number 9 in the K video being Hayes Peak. I had concluded it was Montezuma Peak, but I was wrong about that. :(

Oh well, I'm going to re-crunch numbers and do a better confirmation analysis. I'm not rushing it, just kind of tinkering at this point with plans to include the video from P that I tracked down too. Just thought I'd let people know.

You can throw figures all over the place but there is nothing like being there in person to see where the nubers don't add up..

Hint #15

Are you one of the nubers that doesn't add up? Looks that way to me. :hmm:

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Im still Looking towards Phoenix every night and Still cant See those Flares? What am I doing wrong?

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Are you one of the nubers that doesn't add up? Looks that way to me. :hmm:

I think it's important we all review our spelling words over the next few days for Friday's test guys. I think we have a few who are slacking...myself included. ;):P

So, if I or someone else presents a new case, are we going to move on already or not?! Or will we discuss it for two seconds and go back to the PL's?

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I think the Rendlesham incident clearly demonstrates that the military are not in control of our airspace

and provides good and reliable evidence that E.T's may indeed be visiting our planet..

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I think the Rendlesham incident clearly demonstrates that the military are not in control of our airspace

and provides good and reliable evidence that E.T's may indeed be visiting our planet..

Hi shaddow134 and welcome to UM. :)

You might want to give this website a good healthy read for some top notch information about the Rendlesham incident. And this video goes hand in hand:

Cheers :tu:

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I think it's important we all review our spelling words over the next few days for Friday's test guys. I think we have a few who are slacking...myself included. ;):P

So, if I or someone else presents a new case, are we going to move on already or not?! Or will we discuss it for two seconds and go back to the PL's?

Well, I'm satisfied with the conclusions we've reached regarding the Phoenix Lights videos but I'm having such a blast with Google Earth that I'll probably keep kicking it around for a while, especially if the birdman keeps on refusing to see the obvious and arguing with us about it.

But by all means, that doesn't mean we can't discuss multiple cases. What case would you like to move on to?

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