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karl 12

The Office of Naval Intelligence and UFOs.

65 posts in this topic

There's some very interesting reading in the article below about the role of the Office of Naval Intelligence in the UFO subject - it also makes mention of Donald Menzel's association with the organization, speculates about UFO origin and states that the U.S. Government was aware of the 'marine aspect' of the phenomenon all along.

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Air Intelligence Division Study No. 203 with the help of the Office of Naval Intelligence presents the first important clue that the Pentagon was well aware of the phenomenon's marine nature. This document is one of the rarest documents in the national archives linking the Office of Naval Intelligence to any association with the investigation of the phenomenon and offers an early clue that the study of the UFO phenomenon did not fall totally within the realm of the Air Force. Could the naval UFO experience be more involved than the air force..?

Recent reports by UFO researchers suggest there is an on going Navy effort to destroy any evidence linking the navy to the UFO phenomenon. The reports of UFO sightings being edited out of ship's logs, by UFO researchers, confirms a considerable naval sensitivity to the phenomenon. Researchers have also reported the naval archives in Seacaus, New Jersey appear to have been purposely sabotaged. Documents are missing and files have purposely been mixed chronologically thwarting researchers attempts to do meaningful research at this facility relating to the UFO phenomenon.

Article

Missing Naval Log Books:

Brand New Log Books / Do not Discuss:
Feb 1963 Royal Navy North Atlantic Fleet:

After Tom witnessed the senior officer enter the UFO observations in the radar log book, their shift ended. Radar room personnel on the early morning watch ate breakfast and then turned in. Probably sometime between 1200 and 1300, Tom said he was awakened and ordered to report to the ward room, along with the five radar and sonar operators on his shift that morning.

The senior officer proceeded to go over the events of that morning, asking questions about the radar-sonar observations.He told the six men that their conversations were being taped and explained that until more was known about the unknown target, they were to remain silent about what they had seen. "Gentlemen," the officer said, "we will remember that we have all signed the Official Secrets Act (or words to that effect)." Although there were no threats, the implication was clear that to divulge anything to anyone concerning the tracking of the UFO would be considered a breach of security.

I asked Tom if the meeting might have been part of a general order carried out on other ships in the fleet as well in connection with the UFO incident. He responded that he didn't know if it was or not.

The witness recollected that he was in the ward room about 10 minutes. He said he never heard anything further about the unknown target.

When Preston came on duty once again at 2400 hours, he said he was surprised to discover that a "spanking new book" had replaced the radar log used the previous morning.

----

USS Reeves:

All of a sudden I lost Sonar Contact like it was never there, but CIC still had it at last bearing with an abrupt positive altitude change. The chatter was look at the size of that thing. I went outside through the sonar door on the Port Side and visually saw a large moonlike shape that flew upward over the ship at a 60 degree angle and disappeared into the sky in seconds. I heard no noise from the object when it went over us. I saw a full moon that night on the other side of the ship, but it remained fairly constant give or take a few ship rolls.

When we pulled into port a few weeks later, all records in the Bridge, CIC, and Sonar logs about that time were torn out. Whoever tore them out made one error, the pen imprint on the next page was still there. No one spoke of the incident again

----

USS Reclaimer:

The F-14 went to full afterburner right off the deck, pulling a rooster-tail7 behind it. It rattled the ship severely as it went by. This USO thing pulled easily ahead of the jet, crossed the horizon in seconds while underwater... no visible wake. It just... I mean this thing was FAST. Well, we just stood there. Wow, you know... what do ya say. We speculated about what it was. Guam told us it was a classified matter not to be reported or discussed.

----

Carrier USS Kearsarge:

The cameraman was able to get some photos, not sure how many, before they all took off almost straight up and out of sight.

The cameraman turned the film into to his superior officer and was told to not ever mention it. My dad said he and his friend were asked about the incident by their NCO and also told not to ever talk about it.

----

Sonar operator Account -British Destroyer Warship:

One of Sanderson's sources stated that no less than 13 craft recorded in their logs that their sonars had tracked this object. Allegedly, the unknown target continued to be tracked for four days as it maneuvered down to depths of 27,000 feet! (This must have been in the vicinity of the Atlantic's deepest point -- 28,374 feet below sea level -- in the Puerto Rico Trench.)

If the above story is true, nothing of known earthly origin can travel underwater at such speeds or maneuver at such depths. The fastest nuclear subs can attain 45 knots (52 miles per hour) and dive to around 3,000 feet. The bathyscaphe Trieste, with a specially constructed pressure-resistant hull, descended to a record 35,820 feet in 1960. However, it was incapable of maneuvering about.

It is unfortunate that more than 21 years elapsed before the Preston case reached the attention of a UFO investigator. We have here yet another example of government UFO secrecy at work--this time a foreign nation, Great Britain. Largely due to his apprehension over potential repercussions if he revealed his experience,Tom felt compelled to keep his knowledge of the event to himself. Since it hadn't occurred to him at the time that the radar log notes would be removed,he had only his memory to rely upon during our interviews.

----

USS John F. Kennedy

So we exited the Communications Center and went to the catwalk on the port side of the ship on the edge of the flight deck and we observed a large glowing sphere over the ship. It was hard to decide what size this thing was because there was no perspective. It was late in the evening. The sun had gone down, it was twilight, but it looked huge…

After that, I talked to a few shipmate friends that I had on the ship. One in particular worked in the radar department and he was on watch during the incident. He told me that all the radar screens were glowing- and then nothing. They couldn’t detect anything on radar. We stayed up most of the night talking about it.

We heard that the compasses were not working on the bridge and that the radar navigational system had gone offline…

A few days later the Commanding Officer and the Executive Officer came on the closed circuit television system that we had on board. It was the only way that they could address the crew of 5,000. He [the Commanding Officer] looked at the camera - and I will never forget this - and he said, "I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major naval combative vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know." And that was all he said.

----

USS Edenton

During one of my scans of the night sky, out of know where, four red circular lights appeared. The lights where hundreds of yards apart from each other and formed a square.

After relaying the contact information a second time, the four lights, in a flash, darted towards the horizon amazingly fast. The lower two lights in the square went first, with the top two lights following directly behind them in a curved swooshing motion and there was no sound.

Next, after a half hour had passed since the sighting, the radiation detection system (gamma roentgen meter) on the bridge started making a loud clicking sound. At first, no one seemed to know what was making this sound then a very loud bell went off notifying us as to what was going on, we were being radiated.

The captain stated not to log the instance concerning the radiation exposure and left the bridge. During the rest of my watch duty that night, no officer or enlisted person spoke of what happened, and also acted liked nothing happened.

----

Submarine repair ship 'The Volga' ,October 7, 1977.

"Were such reports made public?"

Azhazha shook his head no. "At the time, naturally, they were classified top secret. Now we have a more open attitude in this country. We are able to talk about such things. On a few rare occasions I did publish some UFO information, but I paid for it under Leonid Brezhnev.The official reaction was very harsh, very negative. My career suffered as a result, and the directorship of a scientific group was taken away from me."

----

Captain of Navy R5D aircraft,February 8,1951:

Crew members and passengers witnessed UFO emerging from the Atlantic ocean:

When we landed at Argentia (Newfoundland), we were met by intelligence officers. The types of questions they asked us were like Henry Ford asking about the Model T.

You got the feeling that they were putting words in your mouth.

It was obvious that there had been many sightings in the same area, and most of the observers did not let the cat out of the bag openly. When we arrived in the United States, we had to make a full report to Navy Intelligence..

I found out a few months later that Gander radar did track the object in excess of 1800 mph".

----

USS Waldron,1968-Near Puerto Rico:

They were tracking two bright lights, that didn't answer up to IFF – they weren't enemy, friend, foe or commercial aircraft. And were flying at speeds in excess of 400 knots and making turns at right angles. Nothing we knew of could do this but they did.

We were on an operation called Racer Run near Puerto Rico. Ship officials supposedly logged a report to Washington but we never heard anymore about it.

I've told several people about this and many acted as if I had 3 heads, but I have witnesses and evidence: there were about 20 in the 2 bridge watch sections, the combat watch sections (CIC), the ships log and the report sent to Washington.

link

Related Threads:

Unidentified Submerged Objects ~ USOs

Forgotten UFO Researcher Ivan T. Sanderson

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There is a discussion here about the mysterious Donald Menzel, who was the original UFO debunker with strong government connections:

http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/03/dr-donald-menzel-secret-agent-or-money.html

Edward Ruppelt, William Garland and the rest of the military group who were investigating UFOs thought Menzel was pushing his natural explanations for the phenomena too hard, and also that he seemed eager to make a buck on all of it.

We now know that Menzel has very high level security clearances that even his closest colleagues were never aware of, and that he was heavily tied in the the CIA, NSA and other intelligence agencies.

I think he probably was part of the secret UFO investigation, but was also on the payroll working to mislead, discredit and debunk other researchers.

In fact, he was the classic case of the government skeptic and debunker who had a political agenda in the Cold War.

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Mcguffin, thanks for the reply and that certainly was some interesting reading and speculation about the UFO cynic Donald Menzel - there's a good article here which also makes some intriguing comments about the U.S. Navy and, as it suggests in the first article, perhaps we should start referring to these objects as UMVs. :)

The name assigned to the frequently occurring phenomenon by the Air Technological Intelligence Center, Unidentified flying object, is woefully incorrect as a name to define the reported phenomenon.

Fifty-percent of all UFO reports describe a phenomenon that is flying to the sea, flying from the sea, flying over the sea, diving into the water, coming out of the water, or operating with submarine like characteristics under the sea. An amphibious designation also falls short of accurately portraying the unique marine capability displayed by the phenomenon.

A more comprehensive and definitive name for the phenomenon would have to recognize the multiphibious characteristics inherent to the phenomenon from a numerous collection of land, and marine sightings. The term unconventional multiphibious vehicle (UMV) certainly describes succinctly the reported phenomenon.

link

Cheers.

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Mcguffin, thanks for the reply and that certainly was some interesting reading and speculation about the UFO cynic Donald Menzel - there's a good article here which also makes some intriguing comments about the U.S. Navy and, as it suggests in the first article, perhaps we should start referring to these objects as UMVs. :)

Cheers.

Hey Karl, more great info cheers.

I am shocked at the statistic of : 'Fifty-percent of all UFO reports describe a phenomenon that is flying to the sea, flying from the sea, flying over the sea, diving into the water, coming out of the water, or operating with submarine like characteristics '

wow.

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Hey Quillius, thanks for the reply mate and there's more information about statistics found in the Ivan Sanderson thread linked in the O.P. - considering the sheer number of Naval reports found at sites like WaterUFO.net it looks like official Naval UFO/USO documents are a bit thin on the ground - the only one I could find was this one from the archives of the Naval Security Group Command (COMNAVSECGRU) which describes a strange object emitting a bluish green beam of light - the site it was taken from (Ufologie.net) has now been removed from the internet so unfortunately there's no link.

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COMNAVSECGRU

APRIL 30, 1979

AT 220032 AUG 15 OBSVD BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT APPEARING AT BEARING 02E (TRUE NORTH), ELEVATION APPROX 15 DEGREES POSIT 6F MULLER 23 17 82 19[?]. DURING THE FIRST MIN OF OBSERVATION THE LIGHT WAS PULSATING OR FLUCTUATING IN BRIGHTNESS AT APPROX ONE SECOND INTERVALS. FOR THE NEXT TWO MINS OF OBSERVATION THE LIGHT BEGAN PULSATING CONCENTRIC RINGS OF LIGHT WHICH FLOWED FROM THE CENTRAL (S) SOURCE IN A RIPPLING, SHIMMERING FASHION DIMINISHING IN BRIGHTNESS AS THEY DREW FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM THE ORIGINATING SOURCE. DURING THE FOURTH MINS OF OBSERVATION A BLUISH GREEN BEAM OF LIGHT APPEARED FROM THE CENTRAL CORE OF THE CONFIGURATION, EXTENDING OUTWARD AND DOWNWARD TO THE LEFT AT AN ANGLE OF APPROX 45 DEGREES, AND REACHING TO THE FADE OUT POINT OF THE RADIATING RINGS OF LIGHT. APPROX FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE APPEARANCE OF THE BLUISH-GREEN BEAM (SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE TO A SEARCHLIGHT BEAM), THE RADIATIVE CIRCLES OF LIGHT DISAPPEARED, LEAVING ONLY THE CORE OF LIGHT AND THE COLORED BEAM. FOLLOWING THE DISAPEARANCE OF THE CIRCLES, THE BEAM SEEMED TO RETRACT TOWARDS THE CENTRAL CORE, GROWING BROADER AND STOUTER AS IT RETRACTED. FINALLY, THE BEAM AND CORE SEEMED TO FORM INTO A NEBULOUS CLOUD-SHAPED MASS, WHICH DRIFTED SOUTH ON THE WIND, FADING FROM VIEW AFTER APPROX 14 MINS. DURING THE EVENT, THE FOLLOWING ATMOSPHERIC DATA WAS ACCUMULATED: BAROMETER 29.95, TEMPERATURE - 83 DEGREES DRY 178 DEGREES WET. VISIBILITY EXCELLENT, FOUR TENTHS CLOUD COVER (STRATUS AND CUMULUS) WIND E X N.S. AT 12 KTS, ELECTRICAL STORM FORMING OVER IMMEDIATE AREA OF CITY OF HAVA

Cheers.

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More testimony for the logbook files:

"We had contact with an unidentified flying object that had entered our air space. The order was given by Admiral Trane to get this object forced down out of the sky if at all possible, by whatever means possible….Two gentlemen began to question me about this event. They were being pretty rough. I remember literally putting my hands up and saying, “Wait a minute fellows. I’m on your side.” My logbook, I never did see that again."

US Navy Atlantic Command, Merle Shane McDow

link

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Hey Quillius, thanks for the reply mate and there's more information about statistics found in the Ivan Sanderson thread linked in the O.P. - considering the sheer number of Naval reports found at sites like WaterUFO.net it looks like official Naval UFO/USO documents are a bit thin on the ground - the only one I could find was this one from the archives of the Naval Security Group Command (COMNAVSECGRU) which describes a strange object emitting a bluish green beam of light - the site it was taken from (Ufologie.net) has now been removed from the internet so unfortunately there's no link.

Cheers.

Thanks fella. I think the info you post could keep one busy for many years :)

do keep up the good work, all the best.

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No probs matey - it's certainly an interesting subject and the official Naval connection to the UFO subject does seem to be a bit of a slippery one - ONI documentation appears to be a bit scarce but there is this report from 1949 which mentions some interesting UFO incidents near the end:

Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence (pdf).

100-203-79 - April 28, 1949, Top Secret "Evaluation of Flying Object Incidents"

There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an unknown object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

051c1a31f26c.gif
From: Commanding Officer and Director

To: The Chief of Naval Operations

Attn: Office of Naval Intelligence

Via: The Chief of Naval Research

Subj: Sighting of Unidentified Object -- Report of

Encl: (A) Statement of C.B. Moore, General Mills

Aeronautical Research, Minneapolis

1. Encl (A) is a statement submitted to this activity by Mr. C. B. Moore (General Mills Aeronautical Research) who sighted and tracked an unidentified object on 24 April 1949 while engaged on Special Devices Center Project P-U-J-1 in the vicinity of White Sands Proving Ground.

2. Mr. Moore's statement is forwarded as significant because of the detailed theodolite tracking data it contains and because the object's variation of azimuth and elevation might indicate some degree of controlled flight.

3. The observer is known to the Special Device Center as a graduate mechanical engineer with an Air Force Reserve captaincy in meteorology. Mr. Moore, prior to his employment by General Mills, headed the New York University constant level balloon research program for the Air Force [i.e., Mogul], and can be considered to be a competent, mature, and highly experienced observer.

R. Ruhsenberger

cc:

(with encl)

Director

Central Intelligence Agency

Link

Cheers.

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No probs matey - it's certainly an interesting subject and the official Naval connection to the UFO subject does seem to be a bit of a slippery one - ONI documentation appears to be a bit scarce but there is this report from 1949 which mentions some interesting UFO incidents near the end:

There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an unknown object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

Cheers.

I skimmed thought the first report and will look at it more closely tonight. It seems very interesting, especially as the people they have documenting many of the sightings are experts in observations. They seem to be quite sure that the objects seen convey an element of intelligent control and I see their plee to the airforce to provide once and for all an answer to the question 'are these domestic aircraft', they say if not then its a matter of high national security as they will be deemed foreign and a threat.

Also the CIA doc is intersting and the case in question should be looked at more thoroughly. I would love to go into more depth with some of your cases. I may have asked you before but what in your opinion is a case where we have quite a bit of data and witnesses etc that leaves very little other possibilities other than that of 'ETH'? Ideally I want one case so I can really get stuck into researching it and taking it across to the BE thread for discussion. :tu:

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You have to think,We dont build anything that Can Leap outta the Ocean then back under at the Speeds described in some of these reports.

Over the years too many have had way too many wittnesses !most know whats in our inventory.

Most have nothing to gain by telling what they saw.

Lets just cut to the chase for once ! USO`s and the Like need more Looking into !

Now I have to start Looking under too !justDONTEATUS :wacko:

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You have to think,We dont build anything that Can Leap outta the Ocean then back under at the Speeds described in some of these reports.

Over the years too many have had way too many wittnesses !most know whats in our inventory.

Most have nothing to gain by telling what they saw.

Lets just cut to the chase for once ! USO`s and the Like need more Looking into !

Now I have to start Looking under too !justDONTEATUS :wacko:

I agree Donteatus, however it is always possible that these investigations are taking place but away from the public domain.

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There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an unknown object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

Charles Moore is also the one who was associated with Project Mogul. It was one of his service flights that may have been responsible for the famous Roswell "flying disk" incident of 1947, or the controversial Flight #4 which some claim never took place.

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weird stuff... nobodys going to debunk the water saucers?

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NRO NSA ONI. but like all human affairs, the best cuts of meat are saved for the top of the hierarchal food chain, and it is for them alone. one has to ask onself, if the ONI was that interested in this subject, and even the NSA,is there something to this? satellites are important, expensive assets orbiting in a far away and strange ocean of infinite black. wouldnt want these assets being damaged or even...tampered with? assets, some of great destructive power, that we have no means to defend ... makes one wonder what the NSA and NRO may say about..."UFOS"

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NRO NSA ONI. but like all human affairs, the best cuts of meat are saved for the top of the hierarchal food chain, and it is for them alone. one has to ask onself, if the ONI was that interested in this subject, and even the NSA,is there something to this? satellites are important, expensive assets orbiting in a far away and strange ocean of infinite black. wouldnt want these assets being damaged or even...tampered with? assets, some of great destructive power, that we have no means to defend ... makes one wonder what the NSA and NRO may say about..."UFOS"

Auh !! Yes Kobe steak Yummy funny you should mention the Top grade`s of Alien meat ! Soak it in some saki and were off to Heaven!

as for the non-believers in E.T`s and ETH, and USO`s ,UFO`s the entire gammit of" DAMMIT Janet " sorry for the slight Rocky Horror refference! but THe Gov`s around the world know what were talking about in here ! And Frankly my freinds they dont Give a rats @@#$ in @#$$.

post-68971-0-09634900-1301775006_thumb.j

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No probs matey - it's certainly an interesting subject and the official Naval connection to the UFO subject does seem to be a bit of a slippery one - ONI documentation appears to be a bit scarce but there is this report from 1949 which mentions some interesting UFO incidents near the end:

There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an unknown object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

Cheers.

thanks! I C. B. Moore has been brought up before in regards to the Roswell incident and there are other letters pertaining to his sighting as well.

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weird stuff... nobodys going to debunk the water saucers?

They are known as unidentified submerged objects (USOS). There is an entry in the log of Christopher Columbus on an object seen just before they made landfall

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weird stuff... nobodys going to debunk the water saucers?

Not me! I'm just not going to believe in them too much either. :D

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Thanks for the replies, been trying to find out more about Naval UFO documentation but haven't had much luck - Jan Aldrich from Project1947.com mentions a joint USAF/Navy study of UFOs below and also makes some very astute points about US Naval UFO documents and O.N.I. UFO investigations - point 5 and 9 do make for quite interesting reading :

The sister Services, Army, USAF and CIA, DIA and NSA have released UFO files as have the British, Danes, French, Brazilians, Australians and even Uruguayans. Now the Russians.

It seems the US Navy’s turn. What specifically? For starters:

1. WWII study of ususual radar returns.

2. 4th AF documents concerning with air intrusion of Hanford, Navy radar and aircraft assets tasked to intercept same

3. About 50 AAF and Navy documents formerly TS and below refer to an equal number of other documents on the Scandinavian Ghost Rockets

4. A small amount of Navy documents in the USAF Project Blue Book files refer to other Navy documents not seen

5. AIR 203 was a Joint TS USAF/Navy study of UFOs. Yet Navy claims no records

6. BurAero analysis of AF document released not by Navy but DOD.

7. In 1951 Dr. Urner Liddel ONR claims after studying 2000 cases that UFOs are Skyhook balloons (USAF does even have 2000 cases in 1951. What does ONR have?

8. Korean War radar cases in OP322V, OP322V2 and COMNAVFE. (Some incomplete reports this era in Project BB)

9. Navy Sec Dan Kimball set UFO project in ONI in 1952

10. CIA document enumerating intel asset dedicated to UFOs refers to analyst in ONI

11. The old Hydrographic office was a published source of reports for the US Navy, merchant shipping and aircraft over waters. These were not investigated?

12. Large resevoir of “war stories” by old Navy salts, esp., aircrews and radar operators and other CIC personnel.

Further, Project Blue Book record indicate numerous contacts thru Air Attaches with foreign govt on UFOs. Naval Attaches have not such contacts even with Navies that UFO significant UFO incidents or Navy UFO project, Argentina, other incidents Chile, Brazil?

In reviews for the Clinton Executive Order declassifying records over 25 years old, Army and AF comes up with hundreds of UFO documents even though these were not specifically required for index. The Navy nada.

“We do not investigate UFOs.”

“We do not keep records filed for such a topic as UFOs.”

“If we had any records on UFOs, they were destroyed.”

“If we had any records on UFOs, we transferred them to the USAF.”

The dog eat my home work. Lost at sea!

Jan Aldrich, Project1947.com

link

As for Naval declassification status, I think the stats in this FOIA UFO article just about sums things up. :no:

Ever wonder what the U.S. Government has in their filing cabinets? Search more than 530,000 pages of declassified documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and find out..

This section contains batches of documents that have been received from multiple agencies. The FOIA request was for all documents relating to UFOs... the following is what was released:

Army - 355 Pages - 22 megs

Central Intelligence Agency [2,763 Pages]

Defense Intelligence Agency UFO Files Through 1979 [204 Pages]

Defense Intelligence Agency UFO Files from 1979-1989 [12 Pages]

Defense Intelligence Agency UFO Files From 1990 to date [30 Pages]

Department of Defense [270 Pages]

Federal Bureau of Investigation UFO Documents [1,600 Pages] - [ Part 01 | Part 02 | Part 03 | Part 04 | Part 05 | Part 06 | Part 07 | Part 08 | Part 09 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14 | Part 15 | Part 16 ]

John F. Kennedy Library [127 Pages]

NASA Headquarters [131 Pages]

National Reconnaisance Office UFO Documents (No Records)

National Security Agency's UFO Files [159 Pages]

National Security Agency's Once Exempt From Release [254 Pages]

Navy (No Records)

Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense [132 Pages]

Space Command [7 Pages]

Wright Patterson Air Force Base [910 Pages] - All documents relating to Project Sign and Grudge[ January through August, 1948 | September through December, 1948, 1949.

link

Cheers.

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Dealing with UFO investigations is like a big shell game, since we know for a fact that there were many classified investigations that have ever been revealed publicly--going back to the "foo fighters" in World War II.

A vast number of records are simply "lost" in one way or another, and the agencies concerned claim not to know what became of them, or that they were shredded and so on. This is plenty of evidence of a cover up here--always has been.

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Hey McGuffin, it states here that the Office of Naval Intelligence is the oldest (and therefore by default the most senior) member of the United States Intelligence Community so maybe the UFO investigation buck realy does stop with them - they've certainly got a very intriguing history (particularly with the inception of the NSA) and documents like this one and points listed above by researcher Jan Aldrich realy do seem to contradict the claims on the U.S. Navy's UFO 'fact sheet'.

UFO Fact Sheet
There is no central office or activity in the Department of the Navy assigned the mission of collecting and maintaining information on UFO phenomenon, paranormal activity, and/or similar incidents.

link

Cheers.

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weird stuff... nobodys going to debunk the water saucers?

Drreaming, thanks for the post -I don't know if you've seen them but there are some interesting statements below about the subject made by Russian Naval Officers taken from this article featured on Fox News website:

“On several occasions the instruments gave reading of material objects moving at incredible speed. Calculations showed speeds of about 230 knots, of 400 kph. Speeding so fast is a challenge even on the surface. But water resistance is much higher. It was like the objects defied the laws of physics. There’s only one explanation: the creatures who built them far surpass us in development".

Russian Naval Rear Admiral Yury Beketov

“Ocean UFOs often show up wherever our or NATO’s fleets concentrate. Near Bahamas, Bermudas, Puerto Rico. They are most often seen in the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean, in the southern part of the Bermuda Triangle, and also in the Caribbean Sea.”

Captain 1st rank Igor Barklay

“Fifty percent of UFO encounters are connected with oceans. Fifteen more – with lakes. So UFOs tend to stick to the water".

Vladimir Azhazha,Russian Naval Officer

There are also some others here about the UFO subject from various Admirals and I do have a lot of sympathy with Admiral Norton's comments.

"According to worthy information of faith, in our atmosphere objects arrive at high speed. No aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories. These objects appear to be driven by an intelligence the way in which they fly. According to reports from scientists and technical personnel, these objects fly in formation and finish manoeuvres that seem to point out that are not completely driven from an automatic equipment. These objects are in incontestable mode the result of long investigations and highly technological and exceptional knowledge."

Admiral S. Fahrney,head of missile testing for the American Navy

"I shall be very glad to accept appointment as a member of the (NICAP) Board of Governors and be listed as a 'believer' in the reality of UFO's, with the understanding that I shall resign if it appears at any time that your big group is being used to cover up for the top brass.

I know that there is a real need to break through the official Washington brush-off and get the truth home to the people. There seems to be a great fear among the powers that be that the American people will panic if told the truth. How little they know and understand their countrymen.

I feel that millions of our people already believe in the reality of the UFO's."

Admiral M Herbert B Knowles

US Navy

"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable. It is striking that so many have been trained observers, such as police officers and airline or military pilots. Their observations have in many instances... been supported either by technical means such as radar or, even more convincingly, by... interference with electrical apparatus of one sort or another..."

Admiral Lord Hill-Norton (GCB), Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, Britain; Chairman, Military Committee of NATO; Admiral of the Fleet; Member of House of Lords.

"It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings. Behind the scenes high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."

Admiral Hillenkoetter-the first Director of the CIA, 1947-50.

February 27, 1960.

Cheers.

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'Admiral of the fleet' Lord Hill-Norton enquires to the whereabouts of HMS Manchester's logbook due to alleged UFO activity....only to be told it fell overboard. :no:

Originally posted by Mcrom901

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DEFE 24/2092 (PDF, 16.5 Mb)

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I may have asked you before but what in your opinion is a case where we have quite a bit of data and witnesses etc that leaves very little other possibilities other than that of 'ETH'?

Hey Quillius, I don't know about the ETH (or the EDH or the ITH) but I'd say for sheer 'high strangeness' the Colares case has got to be up there - as I'm sure you well know there are some truly baffling and unexplained UFO incidents out there and some of the reported object descriptions and flight characteristics sound very bizarre indeed but I don't think there's one case which will unequivocably prove to everyone that these objects are 'technological' and 'not ours' whatever I may think about the subject personally - in any case, here are some incidents that have had me scratching my head down the years, if you know of any others please feel free to add. :tu:

The Shag Harbour Incident

The RAF Boulmer Incident

The Little Rissington UFO Incident

The Edwards Air Force Base UFO Incident (1965)

The Stephenville/Dublin UFO Incidents

The US Coastguard Lake Erie UFO Incident

The Gosford Incident

The Minot AFB Incident (1968)

The Bariloche UFO Incident

The Bethune case (1951)

The Coyne Incident

The Tehran Incident

The Colares Incident

The Portage County Incident

The Exeter Puzzle Incident

The Canon AFB Incident (1976)

The Davis-Monthan AFB UFO Incident (1952)

The Red Bluff UFO Incident

The Yukon Territory UFO Incident (1996)

Cheers.

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Hey Quillius, I don't know about the ETH (or the EDH or the ITH) but I'd say for sheer 'high strangeness' the Colares case has got to be up there - as I'm sure you well know there are some truly baffling and unexplained UFO incidents out there and some of the reported object descriptions and flight characteristics sound very bizarre indeed but I don't think there's one case which will unequivocably prove to everyone that these objects are 'technological' and 'not ours' whatever I may think about the subject personally - in any case, here are some incidents that have had me scratching my head down the years, if you know of any others please feel free to add. :tu:

Cheers.

great stuff cheers. I think this would make a good list to go through individually in depth. I have started with portage county, I look forward to learning all about it. :tu:

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