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markdohle

A question for atheist

73 posts in this topic

Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

Nope.

I'm a very outspoken atheist and I don't think less of anyone because of their beliefs. I begin to think less when they repeatedly state that their belief is the "right" belief.

I also begin to think less of those that "feel sorry for" or "pray for" others to be enlightened. I find this patronizing and offensive.

BUT - I will engage in a great debate with anyone else. I try to NOT make it personal but I will question. I also try to keep this in the correct forum (here and IRL).

Nibs

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? .

I have seen a handful that have...then again I have seen a lot that don't

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers?

Nope.

Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence?

Not necessarily. I've met some who base their faith around that premise, but I don't feel it's universal. I've known some who's faith is a support for them to lean on for daily matters.

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

I am a life long Atheist.

I don't believe that I am superior to believers, and I think on a whole that believers and non believers have more in common than not.

I try not to stereotype but sometimes it is difficult and I have to rationalize those thoughts away. I have religious friends that range from never speaking about their beliefs to ones that simply can't utter one single sentence without some religious input. I tend to be around the latter much less.

For me to say that believers are being dishonest, I would first have to understand why they believe. I have been reading the two religious forums on UM for over a year now to try to understand why believers believe, but have yet to get any type of answer that satisfies and maybe I never will.

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

Well, I wouldn't say Atheists are superior to all believers however I would say they are superior to those believers who used their beliefs to persecute others or to do immoral acts (such as the Muslim riots about a book being burnt, burn 'The God Delusion' and see if any Atheists kill two UN workers).

Well, one issue I've seen with people coming out of faith is the sudden fear of death and seeing as the whole idea of religion tends to be 'if you live your life exactly as we say you should then you'll go to heaven for eternity' it makes this life very trivial and death far more of a pleasure than life so I'd say it's an integral part.

I don't think anyone is dishonest about it though, most Theists are taught it by their parents (as I was) and as such only learn of alternatives far after their indoctrination into faith. I'd say that almost nobody would be theist if they weren't taught it until they were adults.

The thing you need to realise about outspoken Atheists is that they have argued this all a million times and when you've argued it so much you just abridge it for other people and it seems far more simplistic than the reasons they could actually give. However some are just idiots and there's no way around that :lol:

Reason,

Viral

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No one is superior to anyone else.

This is only my own opinion .... but I think

It helps in Life if you can have either

A belief in a God, or some kind of Divine Force.

A belief in Humanity and it's essential goodness.

Or failing either of them ...

A belief in Yourself.

Life could be tough without a belief in anything at all.

It's over simplified I know but all three can make for the self satisfied smug egotist, meglomaniac or dangerous extremist.

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

Hola Mark!

I consider myself an atheist in a verrry loose sense of the word lol. I hope you don't mind my two cents here. I think a religous believer has had personal experiences which have strenghthened their faith. I don't think it ever comes down to simple belief. Personally, I think the issue arises when one claims that their personal experiences should be viewed as objective evidence of whatever they hold a belief in. It's an unreasonable request to accept such experiences as evidence, particularly for that of an Atheist who puts little stock in the spiritual. Likewise, I feel it is unreasonable to demand objective proof from a believer unless they are suggesting that they have such proofs. Unfortunately this evidence is usually a misunderstanding between subjective and objective or anecdotal in nature.

Thanks, good question.

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers?

No.

Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence?

Yes, but only 'weak' in the way that someone is scared to go to the doctor or any other unpleasant necessity. You're scared of death and that it may hold nothing for you. That's a weakness. I don't think it some terrible personality flaw. Everyone's scared of unknowable, potentially unpleasant things.

In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths.

I think you're intellectually dishonest to believe in any aspect of the religious or paranormal without the same type of proof needed to believe in any known truth such as mathematics.

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Posted (edited)

I think you're intellectually dishonest to believe in any aspect of the religious or paranormal without the same type of proof needed to believe in any known truth such as mathematics.

There are a lot of things people believe in that can't be proven. I would say 'love' is one of them. Trust is needed for that, and while that has to be earned, yet one never really knows if it is real or not, the love proclaimed. Some people don't believe that 'love' is possible at all, so live in a loveless universe.

doug

Edited by dougeaton

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Interpersonal trust and relationships, chemical reactions within our bodies, and learned responses to pleasurable stimulus (happy memories of a person, place or thing) are not and never will be on the same level as proclaiming that an invisible, unknowable entity exists and holding to the belief in spite of lack of evidence.

Apples, oranges.

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Interpersonal trust and relationships, chemical reactions within our bodies, and learned responses to pleasurable stimulus (happy memories of a person, place or thing) are not and never will be on the same level as proclaiming that an invisible, unknowable entity exists and holding to the belief in spite of lack of evidence.

Apples, oranges.

Yes, faith, something I can't seem to manage, yet others do, and they seem better for it, so for many, perhaps most, faith allows life to have more depth and meaning, at least for them.

doug

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

Superior? I think the scientific method is superior to intuition or deference to authority, which is predominantly the two reasons people are religious. So I think that in that particular respect I am superior, because I've picked what I consider to be the better path. That's not to say that I'm superior in any other way, most likely I am not. So if you consider me as a person, all in all, I don't consider myself superior to believers in general (unless I knew them to be pedophiles or something like that, in which case I would probably consider myself superior than that person, but you get my point here I'm sure).

Do I think you are weak and only believe because you are afraid of death and non-existence? No I don't think that's neccesarily the case. I think it might be the case for quite a few people claiming to be religious, but in no way does this apply to all or even most religious people, so I wouldn't say so, if we are going to generalize, no.

This might all seem really cocky and egotistical, but I am of the opinion that gathering and analyzing evidence to arrive at conclusions - and adjusting the conclusion as neccesary when new evidence comes to light, is the superior method to going by emotions or essentially what someone told you. But I don't look down on people because they believe. I'd need additional information to consider that person in any particular light compared to myself.

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers?

No. At least I don't. But then again I do not adhere to such labels. I am not an "atheist". I simply am a person who does not accept the concepts of one or more personified and anthopomorphized deities.

In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spiritual paths.

Some may be. Some seem to actually believe in the religions they were brought up in and then there are some who believe because it never occurred to them to decide for themselves and there are some who believe just to be on the "safe" side.

It depends on the person.

One cannot pigeon hole everyone really.

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No. At least I don't. But then again I do not adhere to such labels. I am not an "atheist". I simply am a person who does not accept the concepts of one or more personified and anthopomorphized deities.

Some may be. Some seem to actually believe in the religions they were brought up in and then there are some who believe because it never occurred to them to decide for themselves and there are some who believe just to be on the "safe" side.

It depends on the person.

One cannot pigeon hole everyone really.

Ironically enough this is enough to pigeonhole you as an individualist. :lol:

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

yes, but im not outspken enough about it, im not those athiest who are always bugging u guys, but i agree with those ppl, i just dont have the need to be insulting people for their beleifs, so when i put it tht way. i guess i dont feel superior than u guys, but the rest is correct for me, im not gonna try and sugar coat it, i dont care how bad it sounds i actually think tht way kinda..ish.

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yes, but im not outspken enough about it, im not those athiest who are always bugging u guys, but i agree with those ppl, i just dont have the need to be insulting people for their beleifs, so when i put it tht way. i guess i dont feel superior than u guys, but the rest is correct for me, im not gonna try and sugar coat it, i dont care how bad it sounds i actually think tht way kinda..ish.

I think you are just being honest. Also on some level (I believe), even if it is unconscious; we all think and feel that way to some degree, superior to others who disagree with some viewpoint or another. The human mind tends to think it is infallible in whatever it thinks or believes....I am no exception. Knowing that truth, can lend to some humility, and also to the understanding that we all have built in limitations that make understanding of another’s viewpoint very difficult, unless of course that particular viewpoint is shared and accepted.

I can pick up the ignorance and narrowness in others, much faster than I can in myself...that knowledge, even if weak, is in fact effectual in helping me to at least to try to respect others and give them a hearting.

Again, thanks for you honesty young lady.

Peace

Mark :alien:

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Posted (edited)

I don't see any conflict between science and religion. Faith is of a different order altogether and when that is forgotten trouble starts. Science is one way of finding truth. Religion, psychology and art are other roads; different but in my opinion just as important.

God is not some object that is part of nature that can be observed; so to say that science has done away with God, at least for me is an absurd statement; though I know that many believe that to be true. To argue about it or to be insulting is human but a waste of time and energy. Well after years of debating, I have come to that conclusion. At 62 I have followed my path and will to the end of my days.

Is my belief true? On one level I dont know, so ye I have doubts. Below is a paragraph I lifted from something I posted on NDEs called Astounded NDEs and faith.

I have never had an NDE so I am still a man of faith; for I still live in the hope that my journey to grow in the love of God and others will not end in my death. So yes I am a man of conviction, but faith is not something seen, for if seen, then faith is no longer needed. In fact, as I now think of me on my death bed, awaiting my demise (if I am in fact conscious), and even though I may pray and hope and love God….yet….if I do indeed find myself in existence after my body dies, I think I will be very surprised on many levels, perhaps astounded would be the better word. For I have never experienced consciousness outside of my body.

Peace

Mark

Edited by markdohle

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I think you are just being honest. Also on some level (I believe), even if it is unconscious; we all think and feel that way to some degree, superior to others who disagree with some viewpoint or another. The human mind tends to think it is infallible in whatever it thinks or believes....I am no exception. Knowing that truth, can lend to some humility, and also to the understanding that we all have built in limitations that make understanding of another’s viewpoint very difficult, unless of course that particular viewpoint is shared and accepted.

I can pick up the ignorance and narrowness in others, much faster than I can in myself...that knowledge, even if weak, is in fact effectual in helping me to at least to try to respect others and give them a hearting.

Again, thanks for you honesty young lady.

Peace

Mark :alien:

sure thing, thinking that u know more than others does feel good, im the type of person that doesnt like to "think" im better though, i like to know iam, if i ever do brag on, i like looking things up to make sure im not the one being narrow minded and if im going to stick to beleiving a certain thing, then im always going to make sure its for a good reasonable reason lol if tht makes any sense ^_^

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Do the atheists on this site think that they are superior to believers? Also do you think that we are weak and only believe because we are afraid of death and non-existence? In other words to you think we are actually dishonest in the reasons we give about our different spritural paths. The more outspoken atheist, seem to think this, but I don't want to fall into the trap (that some atheist seem to fall into to when talking about believers) of stereotyping all atheist in this way. So your input will be welcome, whatever it is.

Peace

Mark

dear mark

i think most of them do think there superior ,smarter and better than the rest .

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I think that people are religious due to two things.

One, childhood indoctrination.

Two, a fear and/or inabilty to cope with the idea that that there is no life after death, no diven will, no creator, that we are alone, that we make our own morals etc.

I my experiance "religious" people use thier religion as a "get out of jail free card" to avoid any and all difficult, painful or scary problems that they find in life.

Not sure what to do in a certain situation? read the Bible and find out what X said about it. Dont use your own mind, and will and morals to make a decisions. Use what another person said and thus avoid all respnsibility.

Avoidance and/or shifting responsibility is key as well, if you can say "its Gods will" then you can do anything, endure anything make it somone elses problem.

I see at as a weakness, an inabilty to cope with the fundementals of life in general.

Does that mean I look down on religious people? no.

Do I think I am better? no.

People are people are people, we each deal with life as best we can, for some thats religion and thats fine by me.

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dear mark

i think most of them do think there superior ,smarter and better than the rest .

Well then you're wrong... Actually, maybe smarter but you can't really blame them for that, can you?

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Well then you're wrong... Actually, maybe smarter but you can't really blame them for that, can you?

Actuallyi if atheist were smarter, they would not say such silly, stupid and uniformed opinions about believers. In my life I see no difference between atheist and believers, at least on the level of intelligence or insight. Atheist have a cruths (well some of them) and that is they think they are better, smarter and more intelligence......as long as it makes them feel good, I see no harm in it.

doug

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:unsure:

I think that people are religious due to two things.

One, childhood indoctrination.

Two, a fear and/or inabilty to cope with the idea that that there is no life after death, no diven will, no creator, that we are alone, that we make our own morals etc.

I my experiance "religious" people use thier religion as a "get out of jail free card" to avoid any and all difficult, painful or scary problems that they find in life.

Not sure what to do in a certain situation? read the Bible and find out what X said about it. Dont use your own mind, and will and morals to make a decisions. Use what another person said and thus avoid all respnsibility.

Avoidance and/or shifting responsibility is key as well, if you can say "its Gods will" then you can do anything, endure anything make it somone elses problem.

I see at as a weakness, an inabilty to cope with the fundementals of life in general.

Does that mean I look down on religious people? no.

Do I think I am better? no.

People are people are people, we each deal with life as best we can, for some thats religion and thats fine by me.

I think you understanding on why people believe is a little one sided and simplistic.

doug

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Atheists come in so many sizes and flavors, it'd be impossible for any one person to talk about what 'they' feel, everyone could only talk about their personal feelings. I'm sure there are some atheists that feel smugly superior, just like there are religious folks who do the same. It's all about the person, isn't it?

Personally, I don't know what I believe. It seems to be different on a weekly basis.

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