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What is a Christian?


Paranoid Android

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. For a group such as WBC to show such hate indicates a distinctly non-Christian outlook.

Christians show hate all the time for something or other...it doesn't make them less christian than you or any other christian...

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Christians show hate all the time for something or other...it doesn't make them less christian than you or any other christian...

In my understanding of Christianity, love is the presiding factor, not hate. A Christian showing "hate" is not living a Christian life, and therefore begins the question as to whether they are even "following Christ" (the definition of "Christian" being a follower of Christ, after all). Loving others is one of those non-negotiable concepts I see as the heart of what it is to be Christian. As I said, I'm just bringing this one small issue up right now, I'm more interested in hearing other ideas about core ideas of Christianity before I go and dump all that I believe a Christian is. Showing hate is not a Christian trait!!!!!

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android
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In my understanding of Christianity, love is the presiding factor, not hate. A Christian showing "hate" is not living a Christian life, and therefore begins the question as to whether they are even "following Christ" (the definition of "Christian" being a follower of Christ, after all). Loving others is one of those non-negotiable concepts I see as the heart of what it is to be Christian. As I said, I'm just bringing this one small issue up right now, I'm more interested in hearing other ideas about core ideas of Christianity before I go and dump all that I believe a Christian is. Showing hate is not a Christian trait!!!!!

~ PA

It doesn't matter what your own understanding of Christianity is... fact is if they claim to be Christians and they follow Jesus... they are Christians like it or not. Christians show hate all the time.. even you have hate for something or other, do not sit here pretending you do not

This is not about how you personally view it... you asked the question - you get the answers... Just because the answers are not what you like, through your own term of judging others... doesn't make it so

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It doesn't matter what your own understanding of Christianity is... fact is if they claim to be Christians and they follow Jesus... they are Christians like it or not. Christians show hate all the time.. even you have hate for something or other, do not sit here pretending you do not

This is not about how you personally view it... you asked the question - you get the answers... Just because the answers are not what you like, through your own term of judging others... doesn't make it so

Hence why I started this thread (well, not entirely, but it is part of it). Apparently I can view a Christianity where hate plays no role, while others can use hate to justify whatever hateful thought they want. Apparently both are equally acceptable. That's something I don't get.

And no, I did not intend for this thread to head in this direction, but since it's been said I figured I'd run with it! I'm simply seeking a definition of "Christian" that is actually consistent with the figure of Christ.

At this point I a reminded of a series called Babylon 5. One of the later episodes featured a figure called "Byron". He was a pacifistic and charismatic telepath who was killed in service to the pacifism to which he adhered. But not long after his death, terrorist telepaths began acting Byron's name, destroying government installations using the term "Remember Byron" in their terrorist acts. While of course, forgetting that terrorism was exactly the opposite for what Byron stood for.

To extend the analogy to Jesus, is Byron-worship under these terms just because some people chose to do things in the name of Byron? As I said, this was not the direction I had thought this thread would turn. I just can't see how a figure who devoted himself to love can be used to justify hate and then be seen by others as somehow equally representative of both!

~ Regards, PA

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What I think what a christian is? A general umbrella term used to loosely cover belief in Jesus Christ. It can range from some pretty strict adhering to the written word to a vague belief of the way the bible puts it more than the way any other faith puts it. There's a wide variety of religious houses under the umbrella of christian.

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Hence why I started this thread (well, not entirely, but it is part of it). Apparently I can view a Christianity where hate plays no role, while others can use hate to justify whatever hateful thought they want. Apparently both are equally acceptable. That's something I don't get.

And no, I did not intend for this thread to head in this direction, but since it's been said I figured I'd run with it! I'm simply seeking a definition of "Christian" that is actually consistent with the figure of Christ.

To get to the point without waffling - you made this thread ASKING us what is a christian... You mention the WBC... So I gave my answers.. and guess who isn't happy??

So it appears if the answers do not suit what you like to hear... in you come to arguerolleyes.gif

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To get to the point without waffling - you made this thread ASKING us what is a christian... You mention the WBC... So I gave my answers.. and guess who isn't happy??

So it appears if the answers do not suit what you like to hear... in you come to arguerolleyes.gif

Perhaps it may help to read some of the points PA raised in his OP question. :tu:
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Perhaps it may help to read some of the points PA raised in his OP question. :tu:

Perhaps you should answer the OPthumbsup.gif

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Basically, the way I see it, to be a Christian you must:

1) Accept Jesus died for your sins, erasing all sins marked by your name in the big book of life so to speak

2) "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength"

3) "Love your neighbor as yourself."

That is Christianity in a nutshell.

Thats the basics, and becoming Christ-like is the next step.

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In answer to your above post BM, consider your post here ...

~~~ ...

... fact is if they claim to be Christians and they follow Jesus... they are Christians like it or not. Christians show hate all the time.. (snip) ...

... and then consider the question posed in the OP by PA:
if we were to describe in detail the requirements for being a "Christian", what would be the core ideas that are absolutely necessary for a person to profess to be Christian?

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...

... and then consider the question posed in the OP by PA:

Perhaps it may help to read some of the points PA raised in his OP question. :tu:

:I answered the OP in my own way... I do not need you telling me how I should do it and what way I should go about it..instead of trying to give me advice on how I should do it and what I should do...try answering yourself, If you are not interested then fine.thanks thumbsup.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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I answered the OP in my own way...

Are you saying you have answered the following, BM?

" ... if we were to describe in detail the requirements for being a "Christian", what would be the core ideas that are absolutely necessary for a person to profess to be Christian? ..."

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Are you saying you have answered the following, BM?

" ...."

Did you bother to answer any of the OP yourself? Instead of judging how I answered and how you think I should answer it.... try answering it yourself if you so wish..I wouldn't come in to tell anyone how they should answer anything without answering myself 1st... now you can continue to try and see if you can get me to answer it in the way you want...but I have answered the OP in my own way...

This short conversation between you and I is now over thumbsup.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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The point is that despite us being two separate denominations we both equally consider the other as "Christian". Sure the are some differences, but when it comes to major theological issues (the core, essential doctrines) we all generally agree. We don't all agree on absolutely everything, but we agree on enough to consider each other fellow brothers and sisters in the faith.

I don't think any group has it 100% correct. Not my group, or any other group in existence. Simply pointing to the fact that there are many different denominations doesn't really help the cause because despite the large number of minor variations, many of them all hold the same core beliefs as true and therefore all consider the other as "Christian" - and NOT, as you suggest, as if every group professes that they are the only ones with the whole truth. I'm sure that some of those groups hold such a view, and without statistics I cannot say with certainty more than that, but as it stands from my understanding, people of different denominations are for the most part committed to sharing the core ideologies of their faith while overlooking the minor differences.

Let me try to put it another way , why aren't you a Baptist instead of an Anglican ,there must be some reason.

What you are trying to tell me is that your all singing from the same song sheet but I contend your not or there would not be 32800 denominations ,Jesus didn't teach all these differences ,they are man made and thus are not correct,

fullywired

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Of course, most Christians look at this group and say that they aren't "real Christians". So if we were to describe in detail the requirements for being a "Christian", what would be the core ideas that are absolutely necessary for a person to profess to be Christian?

The minimum requirement, for me, is that they abide by the law that Jesus said summarised the Ten Commandments - "Do unto others as you would wish done unto you".

If you get that right, then everything else follows.

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But (almost) all of them share common beliefs, yes? So if those beliefs are what Jesus really wanted people to take from his teachings, couldn't all those groups that share them be said to be 'true' Christians?

Not in my book, there must be one group who are right and are true Christians the others are not teaching what Jesus taught ,without naming names and causing offence there are some so called Christians who believe in farcical things and still say ,this is what Jesus said or taught

fullywired

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Well, it seems in recent times that some of us have been having a discussion as to what exactly makes a person a Christian. I've been thinking about this and would like to hear some opinions. And when I ask this question, I'm not looking for a one sentence reply like "A person who follows Christ". That's obvious. What I am looking at is what people see as the minimum requirements of beliefs and actions. After all, the Westboro Baptist Church claim that they are following Christ, and these guys see it as a requirement for people to hate gays, shun family members, and thank God for AIDS and dead soldiers.

Of course, most Christians look at this group and say that they aren't "real Christians". So if we were to describe in detail the requirements for being a "Christian", what would be the core ideas that are absolutely necessary for a person to profess to be Christian?

Thanks for responding :tu:

~ Regards, PA

Personally, I think all one must do is accept Jesus as their savior right? Everything else is secondary. I think a variety of different views can be supported scripturally by different groups. The culture in which Christianity is being practiced will play a large factor in what is deemed acceptable and what isn't but that core belief is universal regardless of denomination or culture right? In the end they'd have to explain themselves I'd assume. Would judgement be solely for the "unsaved"?

I dunno.

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This article shows a little bit of what I mean ,most of these had a different answer to the same question

The question before the court in Iowa's Black Hawk County Courthouse last week was tough to answer: What is a Christian? On the answer depended $75,000.

It had never occurred to Ophthalmologist William B. Small of Waterloo, Iowa, a prominent Methodist layman, that the answer might be difficult. When he died in 1939, his will directed that the income from $75,000 of his estate should be distributed "to persons who believe in the fundamental principles of the Christian religion and in the Bible and who are endeavoring to promulgate same." When his wife died in 1949, ten nephews and nieces sued to break the will. Their argument: "There is no common agreement as to what constitutes the fundamental principles of Christianity."

The hearings got under way in Waterloo. The first four witnesses spoke for the trustees. The Rev. Charles S. Hempstead, district superintendent of the Methodist Church, Dr. Russell D. Cole, president of a nearby Methodist school, and Methodist English Professor Miron A. Morrill all testified that a Christian can be defined as one who believes in the Apostles' Creed, e.g., the Trinity and the Divinity of Christ. Methodist Layman Stephen A. Cohagan, a longtime friend of the dead man, testified that this was what Dr. Small himself believed.

Then came witnesses for the nephews and nieces to testify that a Christian might believe almost anything, or nothing. As for the Apostles' Creed, said the Rev. Lewis L. Dunnington of Iowa City's First Methodist Church, "many things" in it are unacceptable to many Christians. On the question of the Virgin Birth, for example, "I tell my parishioners to pay their money and take their choice."

Father Robert Spahn, Roman Catholic chaplain for Iowa State Teachers College, pointed out that his church takes a strong stand against private interpretation of the Bible, and warned that a man may be deceived in thinking he is guided by providence. Christ himself, warned Father Spahn, was persecuted by "those who thought they were doing the will of God."

Pastor Charles W. Phillips of Des Moines' First Unitarian Church testified that many theologians are in "complete disagreement" over Christianity's fundamental principles. Four more ministers—two Lutherans, a Baptist and an Episcopalian—did their earnest best, and made confusion worse confounded.

When it was over, District Judge Shannon B. Charlton, a Methodist, prudently gave himself several weeks in which to prepare his decision.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,815627,00.html#ixzz1NxmoIf1k

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Let me try to put it another way , why aren't you a Baptist instead of an Anglican ,there must be some reason.

What you are trying to tell me is that your all singing from the same song sheet but I contend your not or there would not be 32800 denominations ,Jesus didn't teach all these differences ,they are man made and thus are not correct,

fullywired

But I'm not an Anglican. I simply attend an Anglican church. This is where quite a few of my religious friends go to. I would have no issue attending a Baptist congregation (for example) if needed.

Allow me an example- a month or so back, the pastor at my church was talking about the pettiness of identifying ourselves by denomination. He said that on the last Australian census when it came to the question in religion he ticked "Christian- other", even though he could have ticked "Christian- Anglican".

Think about that- an Anglican minister serving in an Anglican church having studied at an Anglican seminary, and he ticks "other" Christian. God doesn't care about labels on denominations, and neither do most Christians I have met (including real life and online). The majority of people who say that each denomination claims to be the only true one happen to be non-Christians. And I think that is a very telling point.

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Here's my two cents' worth on what a "Christian" is. I believe a christian is a person who has a relationship with Jesus Christ, who study His teachings and apply them to their own lives. Part of that relationship includes reading scripture from the bible to get a better view of what God wants for our lives and believing on the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It shows the great sacrifice that Christ gave for us and also His taking on our sins so we could spend eternity in heaven with Him. Forgiveness, compassion, love toward one another are all central throughout Christ's life, so that is what I strive also to show others. I do not push my beliefs down other's throats but will gladly discuss what I believe if asked. :)

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But I'm not an Anglican. I simply attend an Anglican church. This is where quite a few of my religious friends go to. I would have no issue attending a Baptist congregation (for example) if needed.

Allow me an example- a month or so back, the pastor at my church was talking about the pettiness of identifying ourselves by denomination. He said that on the last Australian census when it came to the question in religion he ticked "Christian- other", even though he could have ticked "Christian- Anglican".

Think about that- an Anglican minister serving in an Anglican church having studied at an Anglican seminary, and he ticks "other" Christian. God doesn't care about labels on denominations, and neither do most Christians I have met (including real life and online). The majority of people who say that each denomination claims to be the only true one happen to be non-Christians. And I think that is a very telling point.

I agree that God doesn't care about labels because he didn't bestow the labels ,it was man who created the differences denominations and my point is that they all can't be right. I notice also in some posts that some who claim to be christians are saying that they don't believe in the resurrection,now that is the core belief in Christianity because without the resurrection there is no Christianity ,it makes Jesus just another man not the son of god

fullywired

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I agree that God doesn't care about labels because he didn't bestow the labels ,it was man who created the differences denominations and my point is that they all can't be right. I notice also in some posts that some who claim to be christians are saying that they don't believe in the resurrection,now that is the core belief in Christianity because without the resurrection there is no Christianity ,it makes Jesus just another man not the son of god

fullywired

I also agree. NOt all denominations are right. I have never claimed they were. I have only claimed that "many" of them are right. Since I don't know what each denomination teaches I obviously can't give you anything specific, but this is where we begin to look at the core doctrines. Hence one of the reasons I began this thread - to see if we could find a minimum set of requirements to define Christianity. So far, there have been a couple of good replies, but many of them just contain "follow the teachings of Jesus", which if you go back to my OP I actually noted that this was the type of reply I was NOT looking for - this is so generic as to be almost useless as a definition. What is it that Jesus taught in order for us to follow? People post as if what Jesus taught is accepted as a given, but as you say some people don't believe in a resurrection, so it's obviously not a given!

~ Regards, PA

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I also agree. NOt all denominations are right. I have never claimed they were. I have only claimed that "many" of them are right. Since I don't know what each denomination teaches I obviously can't give you anything specific, but this is where we begin to look at the core doctrines. Hence one of the reasons I began this thread - to see if we could find a minimum set of requirements to define Christianity. So far, there have been a couple of good replies, but many of them just contain "follow the teachings of Jesus", which if you go back to my OP I actually noted that this was the type of reply I was NOT looking for - this is so generic as to be almost useless as a definition. What is it that Jesus taught in order for us to follow? People post as if what Jesus taught is accepted as a given, but as you say some people don't believe in a resurrection, so it's obviously not a given!

~ Regards, PA

i'm afraid this is where we have to agree to disagree PA because I cannot accept that many of them are right, in my book only one can be right

fullywired

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i'm afraid this is where we have to agree to disagree PA because I cannot accept that many of them are right, in my book only one can be right

fullywired

I guess that is where we disagree. I think many of them have some of the truth, many of them have the core of the truth, but none of them have all of the truth. Anyone who says they have all of the truth, I will walk the other way, even if it were my own church.

As you say though, I guess we both disagree here. Though I'm curious, if only one is true, then assuming the one right one is among the 33000 denominations, then those are the odds that I am a true Christian. And since I have different beliefs to IamsSon, who has different beliefs to Karlis, who has different beliefs to Bluefinger, then among us (just using some examples) at most only one of us is Christian, and chances are none of us were.

And yet we all greet each other as fellow brothers in faith. That would probably make us all wrong because presumably the one true belief would know it's the one true denomination and therefore only refer to people in their congregation who blindly accept the words of their preacher as brothers and sisters in faith.

Would that mean none of us here are real Christians?

~ Regards, PA

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I guess that is where we disagree. I think many of them have some of the truth, many of them have the core of the truth, but none of them have all of the truth. Anyone who says they have all of the truth, I will walk the other way, even if it were my own church.

As you say though, I guess we both disagree here. Though I'm curious, if only one is true, then assuming the one right one is among the 33000 denominations, then those are the odds that I am a true Christian. And since I have different beliefs to IamsSon, who has different beliefs to Karlis, who has different beliefs to Bluefinger, then among us (just using some examples) at most only one of us is Christian, and chances are none of us were.

And yet we all greet each other as fellow brothers in faith. That would probably make us all wrong because presumably the one true belief would know it's the one true denomination and therefore only refer to people in their congregation who blindly accept the words of their preacher as brothers and sisters in faith.

Would that mean none of us here are real Christians?

~ Regards, PA

That could well be ,either one of you is right or all of you are wrong.Jesus never meant there to be 33000 variations of his teachings

fullywired

Edited by fullywired
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