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dekker87

USA mass murders?!

178 posts in this topic

after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?

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after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?

Trying to think.There were massacres of native american villages by US military troops in the 1800s.

Of course, they preyed on settlers and attacked wagon trains, which is conviently forgotten by those of a libral veiwpoint.

There were various labor strikes in which men,women and children were killed, and race riots like in oklahoma in the 1900s against blacks,.But there were as far as I know nothing in America like th eInquisition, or the witch trails in Europe, or in France,like the Albigisian Crusade against the Cathars,etc. Every nation has its own dark history,you accept it and move on.

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What are you talking about Dekker? Like the government ordering mass killings? Killings outside of combat situations?

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Trying to think.There were massacres of native american villages by US military troops in the 1800s.

Of course, they preyed on settlers and attacked wagon trains, which is conviently forgotten by those of a libral veiwpoint.

There were various labor strikes in which men,women and children were killed, and race riots like in oklahoma in the 1900s against blacks,.But there were as far as I know nothing in America like th eInquisition, or the witch trails in Europe, or in France,like the Albigisian Crusade against the Cathars,etc. Every nation has its own dark history,you accept it and move on.

thanks Holly but i'm looking for instances within the last 60 years...since the end of WW2...i'm being told that america surpasses all other nations when it comes to mass killings during this period so i'd just like to see some evidence of this...

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Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead), Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead), Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead), Vietnam (too many to count are dead) to name but a few at the moment. If you'll give me time, I will reply to your (quite absurd) reply to my post in the other thread. Y'know, where this is being actively discussed.

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged. Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America, hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time), I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc. Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...

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i'm being told that america surpasses all other nations when it comes to mass killings during this period so i'd just like to see some evidence of this...

No, you have been told that they have committed such acts, then you have used other examples that have surpassed the casualties in number, as a means to justify U.S. acts and take the moral high ground on their behalf.

And please, it's etiquette to allow someone time to reply to a post before going off on a rant somewhere else. You'll get your reply.

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So this is killings through combat? Well yeah there's been a lot of that since 1950. I dunno if the US has done the most killing though.

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Posted (edited)

In reference to Cambodia:

Nixon: "I want them to hit everything."

Kissinger to the U.S. military: transmitted the order to the Pentagon to carry out a "massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. Anything that flies on anything that moves."

Which not only is mass murder, but generally considered genocide (hundreds of thousands dead)... Unless you happen to be the U.S. or a lucky ally

Edited by expandmymind

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Hm... well, the H1N1 was an engineered virus... so what does that tell you?

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after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?

I think you need to be careful about what you're writing and who might be reading it.

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Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead), Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead), Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead), Vietnam (too many to count are dead) to name but a few at the moment. If you'll give me time, I will reply to your (quite absurd) reply to my post in the other thread. Y'know, where this is being actively discussed.

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged. Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America, hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time), I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc. Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...

winning!

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Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead),

sorry did the USA invade?

i must have been dozing when that happened...i have a vague recollection of congressional hearings to do with ILLEGAL funding of the contras....for which i believe certain US govt figures served time in prison.

Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead),

millions actually but again i must have slept thru this because although i remember a few US bombing raids on Vietcong supply lines i don't remember them invading.

Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead),

in exactly what way, shape or form are the US responsible?

Vietnam (too many to count are dead)

the vietnam WAR you mean? outside of 'normal' war time combat and without referencing the mai lai massacre (for which the US servicemen involved were tried and convicted of war crimes) which of these deaths amount to 'murder' as commonly understood?

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged

the actions of whom the US is not in any responsible.

Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America,

hmmm...i remember the US invasion of grenada....and some action in panama...other than that i can't recall any us invasion in south america...

hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time),

how is the us responsible for this?

it's not enough to prove linkage or support between the us and these regimes...your position is that the US has committed mass murder...so prove that THE US has done so....not some tangenitally linked regime that recieved some funding from the us because they may have been anti-communist.

I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc.

this is down to the US!?!?!!?

Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...

Indeed not...it's actually total and utter BS anti-american propaganda.

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winning!

regardless of who did the killing to post a phrase such as 'winning' on a topic such as this belies your actual feelings for those who died.

I think you need to be careful about what you're writing and who might be reading it.

why?

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Posted (edited)

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP13.HTM

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/us-perpetuates-mass-killings-in-iraq/

and here are some articles regarding killings which I believe the O.P. may have been more interested in.

Edited by ali smack

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In reference to Cambodia:

Nixon: "I want them to hit everything."

Kissinger to the U.S. military: transmitted the order to the Pentagon to carry out a "massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. Anything that flies on anything that moves."

Which not only is mass murder, but generally considered genocide (hundreds of thousands dead)... Unless you happen to be the U.S. or a lucky ally

no genocide is what happened when the communist khmer rouge took control.

that's the khmer rouge who were, initially, allies of the vietcong and the nva and who were actively involved in the fight against us forces in vietnam and who the US attacked during the bombing campaign known as operation menu.

simple one again - if the cambodians didnt want to be bombed then they should have been aiding the us's enemies during wartime.

that's hardly mass murder - that's warfare.

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Posted (edited)

The most obvious is David's compound in Waco, Texas, because this was a war on citizens that could have been avoided. It was committed by the federal government. Even though the Waco police pleaded that the situation be left in their hands, the feds over ruled the Waco police and came to the compound with weapons of war.

The US did things that are not acceptable in the Korean war, such as use biological weapons. The Vietnam war was avoidable and what we did there was intolerable. Granting arms to mid east countries, brings us to the trouble in the mid east today. The invasion of Iraq was not right. Entering ready to defend oil wells, but not citizens was not right, even if there anyone believes there was justification for invading Iraq. I think Bush and Cheney should be on trail for war crimes.

But why are we even questioning if the USA committed mass murder? Is there a certain number of people who must be killed for us to use the term mass murder? On the good side, we are reducing the size of our weapons and using them more precisely. But maybe we should also talk about loans made to countries, and then forcing the country to sell its food to repay the loan, resulting in people starving? Is this somehow more okay? Are there rules to morality that I do not understand? It is okay to use brute force when__________.

Edited by me-wonders
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regardless of who did the killing to post a phrase such as 'winning' on a topic such as this belies your actual feelings for those who died.

why?

You live in a country where all emails are stored and monitored.

That means if you become a problem they know who to make disappear (if they operate like that).

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okay...everyone's off on a tangent a little.

let's make this clear - i'm talking about extra-judicial killings carried out by US military forces that were ordered by the US high command / government.

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You live in a country where all emails are stored and monitored.

That means if you become a problem they know who to make disappear (if they operate like that).

:lol:

believe me mate the posts i've made on this forum will be the least of my worries if it ever goes down like that!

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:lol:

believe me mate the posts i've made on this forum will be the least of my worries if it ever goes down like that!

I'd leave this forum people this one is so going to be being watched.

His name will already be on a list somewhere and the minute he becomes a problem he'll simply disappear never to be seen again.

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:lol:

This is hilarious. It has now went from "that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!? " - the act of committing mass murder to:

"sorry did the USA invade?"

So, after I essentially proved the complete ignorance of Dekker's claim that the U.S. hasn't committed mass murder, he now adds an extra qualifier? There had to now be an invasion (of which he goes on to mention Grenada - facepalm). Man, nice one bruvva!

East Timor is most certainly down to the U.S., as I have read in a book on the subject. The U.S. supplied the arms and quelled diplomatic opposition which allowed those atrocities to take place.

He also states that even though the U.S. actively supported, armed, funded and encouraged many of the brutal regimes in South America, that somehow they are void of responsibility. Without the U.S. (CIA) then these acts could not have taken place. these regimes were sanctioned by the U.S. govts of the times. And also adds that sweeping statement and apologetic notion that it was OK because "they may have been anti-communist. "

He also brings up Grenada (bit stupid considering the stance you are taking here, no?) where it is estimated that thousands were killed. This was all because Grenada were going to (oh my God) buy arms from Czechoslovakia.

Sudan = the U.S. bombed Sudan in 1998, where it is estimated that "tens of thousands" were left dead as a result.

And what about vietnam, where millions were left dead? What would you call that? :lol:

Dekker, you literally have not a leg to stand on here. You were proved completely wrong in my first post, yet went on to try to argue your case anyways. A completely futile act...

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no genocide is what happened when the communist khmer rouge took control.

that's the khmer rouge who were, initially, allies of the vietcong and the nva and who were actively involved in the fight against us forces in vietnam and who the US attacked during the bombing campaign known as operation menu.

simple one again - if the cambodians didnt want to be bombed then they should have been aiding the us's enemies during wartime.

that's hardly mass murder - that's warfare.

You may want to have a look at the Geneva Conventions and the U.N. Charter (not to mention the U.S. War Crimes Act of '96). Targetting civilians is not warfare.

You are an horrendous apologist for murder. This is disgusting to watch.

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http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP13.HTM

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/us-perpetuates-mass-killings-in-iraq/

and here are some articles regarding killings which I believe the O.P. may have been more interested in.

Thanks. You seem to have saved me the time and effort of 'debating' with an extremist apologist. :tu:

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The most obvious is David's compound in Waco, Texas, because this was a war on citizens that could have been avoided. It was committed by the federal government. Even though the Waco police pleaded that the situation be left in their hands, the feds over ruled the Waco police and came to the compound with weapons of war.

The US did things that are not acceptable in the Korean war, such as use biological weapons. The Vietnam war was avoidable and what we did there was intolerable. Granting arms to mid east countries, brings us to the trouble in the mid east today. The invasion of Iraq was not right. Entering ready to defend oil wells, but not citizens was not right, even if there anyone believes there was justification for invading Iraq. I think Bush and Cheney should be on trail for war crimes.

But why are we even questioning if the USA committed mass murder? Is there a certain number of people who must be killed to us the term mass murder? On the good side, we were reducing the size of our weapons and using them more precisely. But maybe we should also talk about loans made to countries, and then forcing the country to sell its food to repay the loan, resulting in people starving? Is this somehow more okay?

Yes, four people must be killed for it to be defined as mass murder.

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