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Iran is Building Flying Saucers.

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A friend of mine another free energy fellow thinks Keshe is a crazy person who is working for the bankers. Anyway Keshe has said something big will be anounced on January 21st. Lets see if he reveals the technology publicly.If he dosent and just makes another rambling announcement then it proves you were right psyche that he is a scam.

Edited by kumaran

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We will all have a toast on January 21st.! My money is safe,due to common sence. :tu:

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Its official psyche. You were right. The special announcement was a peace statement that Keshe wants signed by everyone joining his fake forum of vipers and snakes. Supposedly people in the west to force their governments to make peace with Iran here http://www.keshefoundation.org/introduction/342-important-announcement-by-the-keshe-foundation.html .

Bloody fascist Keshe. He cant provide proof of his technology but he can suggest peace conferences. Is he a politician or a scientist. He is a scam .No doubt about it Psyche. I suggest nobody sign that article. Nobody should visit this scam artists forum. They ban people who ask queations and even for no reason at all. A pure scam. He is an Iranian cointelpro agent.

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Its official psyche. You were right. The special announcement was a peace statement that Keshe wants signed by everyone joining his fake forum of vipers and snakes. Supposedly people in the west to force their governments to make peace with Iran here http://www.keshefoun...foundation.html .

Bloody fascist Keshe. He cant provide proof of his technology but he can suggest peace conferences. Is he a politician or a scientist. He is a scam .No doubt about it Psyche. I suggest nobody sign that article. Nobody should visit this scam artists forum. They ban people who ask queations and even for no reason at all. A pure scam. He is an Iranian cointelpro agent.

Just stay away from anyone claiming to have free stuff, Kumaran. If the current resources run out, you can be sure they'll scramble for a new source. There's another thing we can be sure of. It won't be free either. Greed will not let it be free. It's human nature, it's inside us. Greed cannot be abolish. :no:

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Its official psyche. You were right. The special announcement was a peace statement that Keshe wants signed by everyone joining his fake forum of vipers and snakes. Supposedly people in the west to force their governments to make peace with Iran here http://www.keshefoun...foundation.html .

Bloody fascist Keshe. He cant provide proof of his technology but he can suggest peace conferences. Is he a politician or a scientist. He is a scam .No doubt about it Psyche. I suggest nobody sign that article. Nobody should visit this scam artists forum. They ban people who ask queations and even for no reason at all. A pure scam. He is an Iranian cointelpro agent.

Hey mate

Sorry I have not replied as yet to your PM, I saw it come through, and I just wanted to say, we are all good mate. I have no problem with you at all my friend. I respect that you go to lengths to make sure that you show how you have come to an answer, and why you believe what you do, and I appreciate that mate. It makes all the difference in a conversation. I understand where you are coming from with regards to free energy, and your motives are honorable.

Indeed, not only is the peace talk a bit strange, his technology is supposed to bring world peace he says. We can all share, and be as one. Meh, I do not think Keshe believes himself!

You are a good person kumuran, of that I have not had doubt, All I ever worried about was that people might be giving you false hope and taking advantage of you, and I think your a good guy, and should not be taken advantage of. I hope your determination finds that which you seek my friend.

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Just stay away from anyone claiming to have free stuff, Kumaran. If the current resources run out, you can be sure they'll scramble for a new source. There's another thing we can be sure of. It won't be free either. Greed will not let it be free. It's human nature, it's inside us. Greed cannot be abolish. :no:

You are right. Mostly because it is too easy to sell hope. We all want the world to be a better place, that is all kumuran wants too. I agree with him, I would love to see a new technology such as this, and indeed when I heard about the patents, I had a good look. Unfortunately that is when my enthusiasm hit a brick wall. I am just older, and have probably been bitten more often is all. The claimed process just does not make sense at all. It was worse when the Keshe team asked Keshe for advice, and he said turn to the stars, the answer lies in the Universe around us. That sort of hippy BS is a large indicator that something smells bad.

Edited by psyche101

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A friend of mine another free energy fellow thinks Keshe is a crazy person who is working for the bankers. Anyway Keshe has said something big will be anounced on January 21st. Lets see if he reveals the technology publicly.If he dosent and just makes another rambling announcement then it proves you were right psyche that he is a scam.

To be honest, I do not think he is even working for bankers, I think Keshe is for Keshe.

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You are right. Mostly because it is too easy to sell hope. We all want the world to be a better place, that is all kumuran wants too. I agree with him, I would love to see a new technology such as this, and indeed when I heard about the patents, I had a good look. Unfortunately that is when my enthusiasm hit a brick wall. I am just older, and have probably been bitten more often is all. The claimed process just does not make sense at all. It was worse when the Keshe team asked Keshe for advice, and he said turn to the stars, the answer lies in the Universe around us. That sort of hippy BS is a large indicator that something smells bad.

In his peace statement document which I read on a facebook page he talks more new age stuff like aliens are watching us and they think we are barbarians and that everything we do is recorded and watched all our wars and all. He is a typical new age guy. making promises. Now hw has put a condition that unless the whole world signs his peace statement he wont release the technology. i didnt expect anything different. he is just stalling for time. He says unless the peace conference is demanded by the people of the earth he wont release the technology. This conditional release of technology is really frustrating and proves he is a scam. I should have known. My earlier post on signs of a scam artist. Keshe matches all the signs here http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html .

"WARNING WARNING WARNING!

DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO PEOPLE INVOLVED IN "FREE ENERGY"!!!!

Several legitimate free energy researchers do exist, but they don't spend huge amounts on advertising like the scammers do. You probably won't have heard of them. The people who pursue wide publicity are almost all scam artists. If someone is making large amounts of money from selling books and videos on free energy, be very suspicious. If someone is selling plans for "real" free-energy devices, they are a ripoff. Don't waste your money. Or if someone is selling "Dealer ships" or invest ment oppor tunities for a free energy corp, hold tight to your wallet and RUN! Or, if you've already let them get their hands on your money, ask to see proof of the FE device, and see what excuse you're given. (It will be a very convincing excuse. Scam artists don't act sneaky. Scam artists survive because they seem far MORE honest and honorable than a normal person.) Remember that the "con" in "con game" means "confidence." They win your confidence first, then they go after your money. How to tell the difference between a con game and a real product? Easy: if you give them money before receiving a working FE device, then it's a scam, always.

How can we tell a free energy scam from an honest FE researcher? Here are some symptoms of a scam:
  1. The researcher wants your money. He wants people to invest, he wants subscribers for expensive newsletters, wants to sell "Dealer ships", he wants individuals to make large "donations." Or sometimes he wants to sell you extremely expensive plans which do not work... or to sell you all sorts of books and videos about devices which don't do anything real. In any scam, the WHOLE POINT is to separate the victims from their wallets. (If absolutely no money is involved, then the researcher might be legit... or the scam might be less obvious.) Some scammers say that they want to improve the world (etc.), but then they somehow always avoid doing this. They keep secrets, they run complex buisness deals... they do all sorts of things except the most obvious ones: sending out simple and obvious proof to everyone, and getting working FE devices out into the public by all possible methods.
  2. You'll notice that the scammer uses deception. Now we all know that the "FE" field is similar to people selling maps to lost gold mines, or it's like the used car arena: honest dealers may exist, but they are rare. The majority of publicized FE companies are con-artists selling worthless junk to gullible people. For this reason, real FE researchers are careful to remain scruptiously honest. They bend over backwards to avoid misleading anyone even a little. They have deep habits of honesty, and they don't tell all those little lies which would be acceptable in other situations. So if you notice a researcher using even the smallest "politician ploy" or "marketing techniques," then you're almost certainly dealing with a con-man. If you point out these failings, they'll give sensible excuses. But the symptom is the lack of brutal bend-over-backwards honesty.
  3. How can we tell? Just ask the F/E hobbyists. While most "skeptics" are hopelessly biased, and will dishonestly claim that ALL free-energy inventors are scammers, you can still ask the online F/E community. They'll quickly set you straight about who is a ripoff artist and who is a legit experimenter.

FE hobbyist's scam watch sites:

  1. The invention violates current laws of physics. Well, that's OK, since historical inventions often violate the physics theories of their time. But if many other listed symptoms are present as well, then it's a scam.
  2. The invention is unproven. It has not yet splashed itself across news headlines worldwide. "NEW SOURCE OF ENERGY DISCOVERED IN USA!" Nope. Scams always involve unproven inventions. Unproven inventions might be real or might not. But scammers often hide behind this fuzzy status.
  3. The inventor keeps the device secret. That, or their patent lacks some critical information and nobody can build a working copy based on the patent. (A small critical piece of info remains secret.)
  4. The scammer usually has a good website. Make that a GREAT website. Well, actually their website looks like it was build by site-design experts who charge enormous fees. Wow, look at that thing, how could they afford to create such an expensive monstrous "online facade?" And that's it exactly: FACADE. The scammers spend all their resources making an airtight facade: a false front which looks trustworthy. Sometimes it looks far more trustworthy than any legit company's website. It certainly looks more trustworthy than the website of a legit inventor. REAL inventors' websites are crap, since they're made by the inventor (since inventors can't afford to pay anyone, and also, why pay for something that you can build yourself?)
  5. It's NOT the company's number one goal to prove that the invention is real. The scam company seems to have no goal besides creating an aura of attractive secrets: secrets which will only be revealed to an in-group of "superior" blue-blooded investors, while we rabble on the outside are obviously inferior since we haven't invested and don't know the secrets. (It's the old "treasure map" trick, playing up your victims' self-importance.) Scamsters have all sorts of other tricks to appeal to snobbery or inflate the egos of investors. They also have many really sensible excuses for not proving that their discovery is real. But honest companies just sit down and prove their claims beyond any doubt BEFORE gathering investors. After all, its unethical to take investors' money for extremely questionable and totally unproven devices as if they were normal inventions developed by reliable companies.
  6. The company performs public demonstrations... but something always goes wrong. If it's a scam, then the "failure" was planned all along. When the inventor starts a demonstration, watch for the "failure" which excuses the inventor from having to actually prove the device. Or more rarely, the demonstration is simple fraud, such as a hidden power supply, or something similar to water-to-gasoline chemistry demonstrations where the stirring spoon has a wax plug which melts and releases the gasoline from a hidden pocket.
  7. The inventor doesn't publish successful scientific research papers (i.e. he doesn't publish detailed replication instructions,) or if he does, other researchers can't get them to work. Something vital wasn't included.
  8. The inventor uses Grand Conspiracies or government supression as an excuse.Yes, actual suppression and small, non-grand conspiracies really do exist. Some inventors have genuine horror stories about these. But if it's ALWAYS "the conspiracy's fault" and the inventor cannot test the device or even show good evidence that it works, or can't make progress despite years of investments or "donations," can't reveal history of the work, can't reveal device details... if "The Conspiracy" is to blame, or if "The Oil Companies have made threats," then it's a scam.
  9. You risk being labeled as a "Scoffer" or "Government Spy." Some scammers manipulate their audience using the following ploy: "If you're not fighting for me, then obviously youmust be against me." The scammer won't let you remain undecided about their invention. Instead he pressures and manipulates you to become his supporter. In other words, if you dare to look for flaws, or dare insist on clear and simple evidence, and if you refuse to jump on the scammer's bandwagon, you'll be attacked by the scammer and his supporters. They'll try to smear you with labels: "Nasty Skeptic," "Oil Company Shill," "CIA infiltrator." Even worse, other undecided people will see this happen. Those others may leap on the bandwagon out of fear; to avoid being Accused Of Witchcraft as you were. (In some online communities, just one accusation of Skepticism will get you permanently banished, so it's no small thing.) If you see this ploy in use, then you're certainly dealing with a seasoned expert in con-artist tactics.
  10. The inventor doesn't give out working copies of the invention to independent labs for testing (the hardware stays secret and untested.)
  11. Oh, did I forget to mention that the invention remains secret? :) Secret, secret, secret! Secrecy equals scam, scam equals secrecy.
  12. The inventor makes one statement, then contradicts himself later. This string of lies may not be obvious, but is revealed by comparing various statements. A classic version is "The idea was given to me by god" ...followed later by "I must keep the invention a secret so idea-theives can't steal it." (Hmmm. If god has gifted mankind with the secret of free energy, why is this guy keeping it hidden, and worse, trying to make money off it?!! Gifts from god are supposed to be CONTROLLED? And SOLD?!)
  13. The inventor hasn't tried winning any of the FE device prizes. Back in the days of flying machines, the genuine inventors were all questing after the several major prizes. They didn't distain the prizes and make excuses for not competing. But scammers sure do!
  14. SEE: another list "

Keshe met all the signs. I should have followed my initial intuition. its true. Free energy guys give nothing but excuses. I still believe zero point energy and magnet motors are possible. There are some genuine ones but there are also plenty of scammers. One day when I make enough money I will try to build the Mark Tomion device. Unlike Keshe I will not lie if I dont succeed as he has done. There are some genuine devices but the plans are hard to find. I will continue to hope for a successful magnetic zero point device. More and more scams are coming along everyday. Soon scams like Keshes will outnumber the real ones.

Edited by kumaran
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Advice for those going into free energy http://amasci.com/freenrg/fefaq.html . i intend to do it as a hobby.

"FREE ENERGY"

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

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Q1: WHAT IS A "FREE ENERGY DEVICE?"

A: The term "Free energy device" has a number of meanings:

  1. A device which collects energy from a source that's not recognized by contemporary science.
  2. Another name for "perpetual motion machine."
  3. A device which collects energy at zero cost.

Definition number one is the most commonly used. By this definition, a nuclear reactor would be a free energy device... if we were living in the year 1890! And if tomorrow a researcher discovers how to harness the neutrino flux, or finds out how to convert matter directly to energy, or harnesses gravity, or taps the energy of the Vacuum's particle sea, then that will be a "free energy device." However, as soon as the mainstream of science accepts the existence of the device and starts to figure out how it works, then the device will lose its "free energy" status.

For example, when Becquerel discovered that uranium ore would fog film plates, he had discovered a "free energy" device. When physicists eventually explained this in terms of the radioactivity of unstable elements, uranium stopped being "free energy."

So, whenever a successful device is first attained, but before most people stop their hostile disbelief, and before scientists track down the true source of the unexplained energy, then the device can be called a "free energy" machine.

Q2: AREN'T THEY ALL JUST "PERPETUAL MOTION" MACHINES, AND IMPOSSIBLE EVEN IN PRINCIPLE?

A: Is a thermoelectric cell a perpetual motion machine? How about a nuclear battery? After all, both of these devices just sit there silently while continually producing energy from no obvious source. But a little investigation of either device will reveal the hidden energy source. If somebody discovers a new process which appears to emit energy continuously, then obviously that process must be extracting energy from somewhere. A true "perpetual motion machine" is impossible, but a machine which taps an unknown energy source is not.

In my experience the main problem with this topic is "politics." The politics greatly interferes with the research. Some professional scientists are greatly embarrassed by any important discoveries made by amateurs. They fervently hope that "free energy" reports indeed are always crackpottery. If some uneducated tinkerer discovers Fire-II, it makes the entire scientific communicty look like idiots. Second, overly-zealous skeptics may wish to ridicule all claims of successful "free energy" devices, and place them into the wastecan labeled "Perpetual Motion Crackpottery." But both of these behaviors throw the baby out with the bathwater. Anyone who stumbles across a method for (for example) extracting energy from the Zero Point Fields, will at first glance appear to be claiming the existence of perpetual motion. If a non-scientist amateur discovers an unexpected source of energy, how can that amateur hope to convince anyone to take their claims seriously? How can they convince the experts to actually review their evidence? Their voice will be hidden among the voices of the numorous crackpots and con artists. Therefore we should take care to never automatically reject all "free energy" reports before inspecting the evidence. That after all is the central characteristic of science: actually inspecting the evidence.

"Only a fool of a scientist would dismiss the evidence and reports in front of him and substitute his own beliefs in their place."
- Paul Kurtz

Also, if such things as "Vacuum Energy converters" may be discovered someday, there's always the chance that a non-scientist might be the first to stumble across a way to build a successful device. After all, professional scientists cannot pursue such things intentionally ( too damaging to one's career!) If "free energy" devices are easy to build, then the secret to success might be within the reach of amateurs who follow up on their anomalous observations. Professional scientists will tend to ignore any anomaly which clearly violates the conservation of energy. While it might be correct to say that the discovery of "Free Energy" has low probability, it is very definitely wrong to dismiss these claims on the grounds that the probable existence of unknown energy sources is exactly zero.

On the other hand, "perpetual motion" crackpots really do exist in large numbers. Nowdays they attempt to hide behind the name "free energy." How can we sort the lunatics from the maverick heretical scientists? We can use the same methods science has aways used : take a hard and honest look at the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE; at the experimental results. It doesn't matter if a person is a PhD physicist or an unschooled backyard experimenter, their physical evidence will show if their discovery is real.

Q3: IS THERE A CONSPIRACY TO SUPPRESS THESE DEVICES?

A: Yes and no.

Here's an analogy. Is there a conspiracy to keep women and minorities in low-paying jobs? No, there is just wide-ranging prejudice and sexism, and the bigoted employers need not "conspire" together.

To the people who are victims of sexist behavior, it may seem as if employers are conspiring against them. But bigotry is not a conspiracy. Instead it is a sort of psychological disease which spreads through groups of people. Bigots might all act the same, and we might become "infected" with bigotry, but obviously no secret organization is needed for bigotry to spread. We don't have to join a secret society in order to become a practicing sexist.

In other words, suppression usually has nothing to do with conspiracies. If a minority group complains that people in positions of power are keeping them down, should we accuse the victims of crackpottery; of promoting a Conspiracy Theory? Obviously not. (And anyone who made such an accusation is probably a bigot himself.) Similarly, if an inventor complains of suppression, and critics respond by accusing them of making conspiracy theories, then it's the critics who have mental problems; not the inventor.

Prejudice against the "Free Energy" research field is directly analogous to sexism. There really are people who behave as "science bigots," who hate all fringe/maverick researchers, and who constantly attack FE adherents. They smear the field with derogatory names and use fairly underhanded tactics to discredit the research. They counter any behavior complaints with accusations of paranoia. (If you complain about the hostile actions of scoffers, you must be a Conspiracy Theorist?!!! Yeah, riiiight.) And yet, the scoffers believe that their behavior is proper. They're convinced that "science" needs to be defended against the Hoards Of Crackpots. They're convinced that it's a WAR, and in war, any kind of dishonest underhanded tactics become acceptable. If tomorrow I were to publicly announce that I was attempting to duplicate some inventor's claimed "overunity device," I would expect to receive smug laughter and sneering putdowns from most reputable scientists who chanced to hear about it. If my income depended on peer review by other scientists, I would expect to have the funding for my legitimate projects called into question. But this intellectual suppression is a result of belief systems, not of conspiracy. Sneering scientists know, WITHOUT EXAMINING EVIDENCE, that I must be some sort of deranged crackpot. They take "justified" action in preventing my incompetent waste of federal funding. But what if they're wrong? The problem is not that crackpots might waste funding. The problem is that "crackpots" are condemned without any fair hearing (usually without any hearing at all.)

Was it a conspiracy which threatened great unconventional discoveries of the past? The scientists who derided and dismissed plate tectonics, flying machines, black holes, spacecraft, television, etc., they didn't belong to any conspiracy. Do the scientists of today ridicule free energy? Well, history teaches us that ever was it so. If a new discovery is totally outside of contemporary science, it will usually be disparaged by scientists. If it later is proved to be genuine, the scoffing scientists silently accept it, hope that nobody notices their earlier sneering, and they might even claim that their disparagement never happened. History shows many instances of this process. Yet apparently the lessons of history have no impact on the behavior of these "suppressors of dissent."

No conspiracy is needed to explain why a widespread group of people will exhibit identical styles of prejudice and ignorance. Perhaps some genuine F/E devices might be suppressed, but look to human nature for the cause, not to secret conspiracies.

On the other hand, a few inventors have reported actual harassment, among them H. Moray, John Bedini, Floyd Sweet, Kawai, , and . Adam Trombly had his homopolar machine patent placed under a federal Secrecy Order. Teuro Kawai's was taken over by the japanese mafia. Attempts at active suppression occasionally do occur, but these are not the major force keeping FE devices off the market. Look to bigotry and the human need to gather together in groups to ridicule those who do something new and different.

Q4: AREN'T MOST F/E DEVICES REALLY JUST SCAMS TO RIP OFF GULLIBLE PEOPLE?

A: No, some of them are not. But many are. As the skeptics constantly say, "KEEP YOUR HAND ON YOUR WALLET!" :) Don't make donations to companies unless they are registered Nonprofit organizations with all of their finances exposed for inspection. Don't EVER buy expensive device-plans by mail-order. Don't EVER buy a franchise in a free energy sales company until the inventors have broken their secrecy and allowed independent 3rd-party groups to test their devices.

The majority of F/E researchers really are honestly pursuing the goal of New Science which makes "fuelless" portable energy sources possible. Some have even advanced to the point where they need funds to properly develop their discoveries. However, since scams are so very common and widespread in this field, investors in F/E companies should be extremely wary. They should expect to lose their investment, and never risk their life savings. After all, longshot-betting is risky, even if it sometimes does give large returns! And long-shot betting is far more risky if a particular field has just as many scams and con artists as used-car dealers, or the sales of maps to lost gold mines.

It's not hard to detect a scam. Honest companies give full disclosure of all details so that anyone can successfully duplicate their hardware. Scammers carefully keep everything secret and unproven. Honest researchers are only slightly untrustworthy, and they make mistakes. After all, they're human. Scammers keep all their mistakes carefully hidden, and they inspire your total confidence (that's why it's called a "con game.") Honest companies can give you the names of independent researchers and test labs who can verify that the invention really works. Scammers only give you testimonials, or long lists of very sensible reasons why the invention is still unproven and/or secret. In short, if it's secret, if it's "being suppressed by the government," then it's a scam. Simple.

Some skeptics claim that ALL free energy reports are scams. They are wrong, and they probably have a hidden reason to be making this claim. However, the same is true of people who insist that all OU/FE devices are genuine, and that no NO F/E scams exist. Look for their hidden agenda. Both the extreme promotors and the extreme detractors have emotional investments in their loudly touted 'facts.' The real truth is somewhere between. People who are interested in the truth won't make such confident blanket pro/con declarations about "free energy."

Q5: WHERE CAN I BUY ONE TO POWER MY HOME OR CAR?

A: Why aren't people using these devices for off-grid living? That's simple:

No successful F/E machine exists.

Look behind any glowing positive reports and you find fatal flaws. The inventors are either fooling themselves, or they're trying to suck you in to their con game. The situation resembles that with flying machines in 1900: there are occasional successes, lots of crazy overblown claims, experts smugly assuring us that such things are impossible, crackpots with crazy theories, and megalomaniac inventors hiding fantastic discoveries both real and imagined. There are large prizes waiting for the first person who can demonstrate genuine success. There are also lots of con-artists out there who will let you invest in secretive research companies, or who will sell you expensive plans for as many fake free energy devices as you can afford! But the equivalent of the "Wright Brothers" have yet to appear on the scene and show us how to REALLY do it right. Nobody yet has won any of the free energy prizes. Drs. Pons and Fleichman came close to "Wright Brothers" status with their cold fusion discovery, but couldn't penetrate the walls of skepticism.

Q6: WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE INSIST THAT FE DEVICES ARE REAL?

If you read websites or watch hobbyist Youtube videos, you'll get the impression that FE devices are easy to build. This is very misleading. Here's a Wright Bros. analogy again: what if all kinds of aircraft plans, books, and devices were being sold in 1890, and sophisticated airplanes were on display at conferences, but nobody could fly around high in the air? You'd know that something was fishy.

The main problem is simple: people are screwy. We specialize in lying to ourselves. It's very easy to talk yourself into believing that your FE device works fine ...yet you never consider trying to power your vacation cabin out in the woods. (If you tried that, you'd instantly expose the fatal flaw. So for some strange reason you never try it.) But since you've spent years of work in creating detailed theories and building sophisticated prototypes, you feel free to start presenting workshops and selling plans and DVDs to other people. You display your non-working device at FE conferences. You believe in yourself and your device, yet you've actually become a scammer, since you're selling something that you've never used yourself, and which doesn't actually work.

Another problem is similar; researchers can encounter results which can be interpreted two ways: results which support our FE theories, or results which hide a fatal flaw. For example, storage batteries contain large amounts of energy in their metal plates, but this energy must never be tapped, for it would dissolve the plates and ruin the battery. If a FE device contains storage batteries, it becomes possible to extract large amounts of unexpected energy ...by slowly destroying the batteries. Yet experiments with the device produce unexpected energy output. Doesn't this prove that your FE theory is correct? Maybe it just shows that you've discovered the hidden energy that all batteries must contain in their metal structure. The solution is simple: avoid batteries like the plague. The amount of energy in a "totally discharged" battery is large, and it's unknown. Using batteries in a FE prototype is stupid, instead just use banks of capacitors. Or, if you succeed with batteries, make damn sure that the capacitor-run version works too, and perhaps drop all work on your battery version. Yet if we look at the field of FE research, all of the apparently successful researchers are basing their success on storage batteries! That's profoundly insane. Batteries are a huge red flag for dishonest inventors lying to themselves (or for running outright scams.) And this shows a critical fact where FE devices are concerned: if someone has an FE device running alone with capacitors (or better, with no storage device at all,) that's a great breakthrough. No other researchers can demonstrate such an advancement. <a name="plans">

Q7: BUT.. BUT.. *PLANS* FOR F/E DEVICES ARE FOR SALE!

A: As of 01/2010, no proven F/E device exists. Hundreds of amateurs are hotly pursuing anything which could lead to success. There are several FREE ENERGY PRIZES, but so far nobody has won any of them. The first person to achieve even a fraction of a watt can make "infinite batteries" which never need replacing, and then become the founder of the next Eveready or Duracall corporation. Make no mistake, a free energy device is as valuable (and dangerous) as a method for converting lead into gold.

Yet some mail-order companies sell plans for working free energy devices. THESE ARE A LIE AND A RIPOFF! The companies pretend that the plans really work. They don't say "experimental only," or "speculative," or "unproven device". Some companies even suggest that their devices could power a home or a car. But they cannot even run a flashlight. Their prices are high, which might be reasonable if the devices were real. But since they don't work, the high price is simply a way to maximize the ripoff.

If you've been ripped off by one of these "plans" companies, you can lodge a complaint with the Federal Trade Comission in the USA, and if the plans were sent through the US Mail, you can complain about mail fraud (a federal offense, literally.)

FTC complaint form

See: mail fraud, or online scams and fraud

US mail fraud complaint form

Suppose it was 1890 (long before the Wright brothers.) Would you buy plans for a "genuine" flying machine that lets you soar over your friends' houses? If so, you'd be the victim of a scammer. Or suppose it was 1930, would you buy plans for a "genuine" atomic generator to run your home? Of course not. Neither would you buy a formula for turning lead into gold, or buy magic pellets that turn water into gasoline. And you'd laugh at anyone who tried to sell you a map to a lost gold mine, since you know that it's a scam. Only a dimwit would fall for such well-known ripoffs. The ripoffs are obviously designed to get money from victims. If the claims were real, then the sellers would be using their discoveries to become wealthy. They wouldn't be messing around with sales of crude plans to billion-dollar discoveries.

In exactly the same way; you'd better not pay $80 or even $10 for "real" free energy plans. Think about it: if someone can make a successful FE machine, WHY ARE THEY SELLING PLANS? Why don't they just build the fully-functional devices and sell them? Become famous overnight like the Wright Brothers did? Simple: since their machines don't work, the FTC would put them in jail immediately if they sold the fake devices. But if they only sell plans to the gullible, they can get away with it. When a hobbyist builds the device and it does not work, the seller can blame the hobbyist for not doing it right. The hobbyist then has no proof that the plans could ever work. See, plans are great for scammers. The feds will go after fradulent products, but plans are too fuzzy, it's too hard to tell whether the price is a ripoff or not. So "vote with your wallet," and don't send any money to these dishonest "plans" companies. If you already have wasted money, then contact the URLs above. Mail-order ripoffs are a federal crime, so it should be easy to get a very quick refund. Also remember: if nobody complains to the FTC about dishonest companies, then the scammers can go on for years without being stopped.

On the other hand, there are a couple of HONEST companies which sell mail-order booklets and information packets at reasonable prices. They provide information for amateur researchers. They just quietly provide a service without all the screaming hype. They NEVER sell expensive secret plans for "real" gravitational energy generators or fuelless motors which can run a home or car. For these companies, search Google for Rex Research and BSRF (Borderlands Science). And check out the large archive of free information on Keelynet.com

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I am presently reading the e book Frontiers of Propulsion Science by Mark Millis. I got it at the British Council ebrary. I managed to read a 156 pages on the first day. The book is well written and better written than Keshes books which are full of printing mistakes. I am learning a lot from it.

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Feeling really depressed as Mark Millis the author of the book Frontiers of propulsion science says energy requirements to travel to the stars will only be available by 2197. Really depressing. But I still have hopes that ,maybe just maybe a free energy device or zero point magnet motor will come before that. Maybe LENR will be perfected by then. The book Frontiers of propulsion science says LENR produces unpredictable results that is it works only sometimes. Hopefully someone will perfect it. At present there is no viable free energy claim that is real. I have doubts Keshe had anything to begin with. I believe he too had erratic results. That is why he covered it up. He cant reproduce it on demand. Same with the Searl effect. People have got very small reduction of weight but not full levitation. I believe like LENR no consistency like most free energy not reproducible. Still good to study though. Maybe the free energy effects can be enhanced.

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Feeling really depressed as Mark Millis the author of the book Frontiers of propulsion science says energy requirements to travel to the stars will only be available by 2197. Really depressing.

How did he arrive at so accurate a conlcusion? Why not by 2200? Anyway, what a silly prediction. Surely he couldn't predict what people might discover next year, let alone 2197.

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How did he arrive at so accurate a conlcusion? Why not by 2200? Anyway, what a silly prediction. Surely he couldn't predict what people might discover next year, let alone 2197.

Thats just a guess. He also said the technology to reach the stars may not be possible at all. Space drives and so on may not be possible according to him. But I dont agree. I think antigravity is possible. He thinks research should be done but it is probably impossible. I still have hope someone will develop an antigravity device. He believes LENR is unpredictable. I feel it should still be researched. I am not too sure Rossi has discovered the key to LENR yet. I believe his results are unpredictable. Thats why he hasnt released any products yet. He says Heim theory is not proven but holds some promise. It hasnt been disproven yet.

Edited by kumaran

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This mans attitude is similar to how I feel here http://beforeitsnews...he-2436340.html . Keshe may be real but his attitude and egotistical pride will bring him down. As long as he dosen't release his technology he will never get any support. The guts of Keshe. He wants every government to give up its sovereignty and hand over their rights to him,. This man Keshe is the antichrist.

Edited by kumaran

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They are working on many things. We hope they are successful, and have our support. Check this link mate. The NASA page on how it is progressing.

LINK - NASA Status of "Warp Drive"

What do you think of Keshes guts. The man is trying to create a religion and make himself world dictator. Does he think people are so stupid to hand over their rights to him.

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This man Keshe is the antichrist.

heavens, you do tend to promote him rather higher than he deserves.

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Men like keshe make me really frustrated with the world. He says I have this technology that can save the world but first you must hand over all your rights to me. Then I will release the technology. Even if he has the technology the mere fact that he puts conditions on the release of technology proves he is a nasty egotistical b******. I feel really negative about the world right now. It is just a place where fraudsters like Keshe and crafty politicians defraud the public.

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I have been reading Frontiers of Propulsion science by Mark Millis. He says people like Keshe regularly send NASA proposals to fund their research. He says Keshe has what is called psychological condition called delusions of grandeur and paranoia. Keshe keeps saying he is afraid people will steal his ideas that people are suppressing him. This is one of the symptoms of the lunatic fringe to which Keshe belongs. Extreme secrecy. They are scammers. They are mental patients. They actually believe they are being persecuted. I will stay away from such people until I have built and tested to my satisfaction or seen a Keshe reactor with my own eyes flying. Until then Keshe is just a mental patient and all his supporters are mental patients.

Edited by kumaran

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What do you think of Keshes guts. The man is trying to create a religion and make himself world dictator. Does he think people are so stupid to hand over their rights to him.

Founder of Scientology, L Ron Hubbard once said:

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

And he was a Science Fiction writer. Now Scientology, a sci fi religion (bad one at that) is worth billions. I think that says it all?

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I have been reading Frontiers of Propulsion science by Mark Millis. He says people like Keshe regularly send NASA proposals to fund their research. He says Keshe has what is called psychological condition called delusions of grandeur and paranoia. Keshe keeps saying he is afraid people will steal his ideas that people are suppressing him. This is one of the symptoms of the lunatic fringe to which Keshe belongs. Extreme secrecy. They are scammers. They are mental patients. They actually believe they are being persecuted. I will stay away from such people until I have built and tested to my satisfaction or seen a Keshe reactor with my own eyes flying. Until then Keshe is just a mental patient and all his supporters are mental patients.

He says people will steal his idea, but remeber the answer he gave his team when they said they were having some problems with his design?

The answer is in the Universe. It is all around you. Always has been. Work it out yourself.

He is so full of it.

heavens, you do tend to promote him rather higher than he deserves.

But not lower. That is a depth few manage.

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.This is BIG. Make no mistake. Scientifically and politically this is huge.....

Yeah, right. If you believe this BS, I would LOVE to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.

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He says people will steal his idea, but remeber the answer he gave his team when they said they were having some problems with his design?

The answer is in the Universe. It is all around you. Always has been. Work it out yourself.

He is so full of it.

But not lower. That is a depth few manage.

I agree. Nothing he says makes sense. Despite not having any success the Italian team continues to experiment and a new Bulgarian team is building a prototype. As of yet Keshe says he has not given any of the teams the key which is necessary to operate the reactors. I don't think there is any such key. He is setting himself up as a messiah. Make peace or I wont give you the key. he has no key to give. He is full of it .

Edited by kumaran

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