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Paxus

G.Cooper encountered man-made flying saucers

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Here's the Cooper GT-5 meteoroid hit description:

page 126, 'Leap of Faith'

"Over the next couple of days, we were struck four or five times. When the spacecraft was dismantled upon its return to the Cape -- every returning spacecraft is taken apart piece by piece as part of a total engineering report to assess how it handled the stresses of flight -- impressions were found on the outside wall, as if someone had driven home an ice pick with a hammer. The meteorites had actually reshaped the outer titanium wall of the spacecraft, pushing in the toughest metal known to man as much as a quarter-inch. .."

Edited by JimOberg

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Here's the Cooper GT-5 meteoroid hit description:

page 126, 'Leap of Faith'

"Over the next couple of days, we were struck four or five times. When the spacecraft was dismantled upon its return to the Cape -- every returning spacecraft is taken apart piece by piece as part of a total engineering report to assess how it handled the stresses of flight -- impressions were found on the outside wall, as if someone had driven home an ice pick with a hammer. The meteorites had actually reshaped the outer titanium wall of the spacecraft, pushing in the toughest metal known to man as much as a quarter-inch. .."

Okay, yeah that's the same section quoted in your PDF. So this suggests dents instead of holes if I'm reading it correctly, but given the information in the mission report we can see that there weren't actually any dents.

It does make me wonder what Cooper might have been thinking of when he wrote that.

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I too agree on the well researched work by most of our members,Boony& Jim to mention two ! Well done you guys ! As for the Logic in thinking all this CT ect,B.S. Well Its just the way people are. We all Love to embelish a bit here and there right > as for the actual facts and proof Its all in the Puddin !

And we all Know you cant have your puddin ,If you dont eat the meat ! :tu:

The meat being the Facts !

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You will still find plenty of people on the Internet denying that the Holocaust happened, which is also one of the most documented events in history.

Yeah, it's very surprising to me that people can hold onto such ideas under the circumstances.

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I guess I could have saved myself some reading this morning if I'd bothered to read this post... LOL

[...]

But you've done better than me, posting more info :tu:

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Good lead, let's follow it up later.... via www.jamesoberg.com

Hi Jim,..well, it seems that the Brad Steiger/Joan Whritenour book [Flying Saucers are Hostile. 1967] is not the origin of the quote after all!

Because though it does contain the quote that has been attributed to 'Wernher Von Braun', ...when I contacted Brad Steiger himself and asked about the the history of the quote, he sent me this reply...

Brad Steiger

"Hi, Alex, you are not pestering. I wish I could be of more help. I wrote that book with Joan 55 years ago. She did the research for the book, and she had several sources for the quote. It was in wide circulation at that time. I have moved five times since 1959. Each time, the files thin out and some must be left behind. Best of success in all of your research."

And from this 'short but clear' reply, I assume that either Joan has copied the quote from a different source, ie. the as-of-yet unknown 'west german newspaper' that Von Braun is alleged to have

" told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed and presumably extraterrestrial source."

...or maybe it was 'Joan' that has misquoted the article in the '1959 Neues Europa' that your friend found for you?..[by the way Jim, could you provide me with the link for that archived copy...just to tie up loose ends?]

I am not quite done with this thing though..[i'm still searching for the articles from the '1958 West German newspapers' to see if there could still be something to the story?]...but I will say that it is starting to look like Tim Good has reproduced the 'quote' from Brad and Joan's book (Flying Saucers Are Hostile), and then Clark C McClelland has then gone and pilfered the publicity-rights in a bid to boost his public stature!...But then..I could be totally wrong?

Cheers.

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"

And from this 'short but clear' reply, I assume that either Joan has copied the quote from a different source, ie. the as-of-yet unknown 'west german newspaper' that Von Braun is alleged to have

" told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed and presumably extraterrestrial source."

Cheers.

When I see this reference to a Von Braun quote (and it seems to take on a few similar forms from the varying sources), I wonder if Von Braun was simple referring to an energy or force which had not yet been fully understood which originated in outer space...hence extraterrestrial. The fact that there is reference to extraterrestrial, doesn't necessarily mean he was implying that living entities or their vehicles were responsible...just that some aspect of the orbital mechanics were not understood.

Edited by synchronomy

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When I see this reference to a Von Braun quote (and it seems to take on a few similar forms from the varying sources), I wonder if Von Braun was simple referring to an energy or force which had not yet been fully understood which originated in outer space...hence extraterrestrial. The fact that there is reference to extraterrestrial, doesn't necessarily mean he was implying that living entities or their vehicles were responsible...just that some aspect of the orbital mechanics were not understood.

Yes this is possible and has also occurred to me synch!...But then, if you read the quote where he says .."we are now engaged in entering into contact with these powers"..I find it a little too cryptic to easily accept that he is speaking metaphorically about some natural force?...And the point of trying to separate 'fact from myth' on this often cited quote is that I have seen the verified quote in which Von Braun comprehensively dismisses the notion of extraterrestrial visitation,...and then also , many more references to the great scientist's belief and participation in the suppression of public-knowledge on the subject.

And being that the man was in a prime position to 'know the truth'of the matter...if this 'quote' turned out to be authentically attributed to him...then imho, it would be a pretty big deal in the quest for knowledge on the ETH....So either way,..I would like to know if he actually made the statement or not.

Cheers.

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Yes this is possible and has also occurred to me synch!...But then, if you read the quote where he says .."we are now engaged in entering into contact with these powers"..I find it a little too cryptic to easily accept that he is speaking metaphorically about some natural force?...And the point of trying to separate 'fact from myth' on this often cited quote is that I have seen the verified quote in which Von Braun comprehensively dismisses the notion of extraterrestrial visitation,...and then also , many more references to the great scientist's belief and participation in the suppression of public-knowledge on the subject.

And being that the man was in a prime position to 'know the truth'of the matter...if this 'quote' turned out to be authentically attributed to him...then imho, it would be a pretty big deal in the quest for knowledge on the ETH....So either way,..I would like to know if he actually made the statement or not.

Cheers.

Yes, I would like something conclusive regarding his apparent statements.

I often wonder, if he didn't deliberately use double entendre when referring to the possibility of ET existence, in order to spark interest but at the same time maintain his allegiance to secrecy.

I often feel that way about many things Carl Sagan said. The quote in my signature is a perfect example of that.

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well, I'm a little late to this site that is talking about my dad, wendell welling. and bashing gordon cooper. somewhat interesting that grown men try to one up each other.

. bless gordon's heart. he didn't write down his memories of northern utah quite soon enough, and got a few facts wrong. but he was excited and meant well, I think. I don't know how he found out about my dad's prototype saucers, but by the time he found us, my dad was long gone....and yes my husband scott was trying to continue with the plans of the flying saucers, but didn't understand what wendell had in mind. scott has since passed away also at an early age. the saucers have been divvied out to relatives, and though people ask to look at the plans, I don't think they are monumental or profound technology. wendell and 3 others saw a flying saucer at close range in '59. wendell didn't believe in them until that moment! (his hired hand also saw one, later on, land on the wheat farm 10 miles to the north) he looked hard and long and said he didn't dare look away, because it blended in with the sky so much (not reflective) he was afraid he wouldn't be able to see it again if he did look away. he studied every bit of it for the short amount of time it hovered within a block of the men in montpelier, idaho. He was 42 at the time and spent the rest of his short life trying to replicate it and convince others of the existence of UFOs. his adult co-sighters denied the sighting, because not many believed in '59, and they were respected citizens. then later in their lives apologized to scott as scott found them, wanting to know their stories,..they were embarrassed that they were so chicken to admit it back in '59, and understood why wendell felt betrayed. wendell was never a chicken, and got quite a reputation. when anyone in the area had a sighting, they'd run to our door because they knew my dad would believe them and their ghost white faces. when he died people came out of the woodwork saying how much they'd helped him with his prototypes (most of their 'help' was being awestruck & staring as my dad explained) and if anything came of the saucers, they wanted their share. another good reason not to pursue development.

so no, the plans were never sold to foreign countries, and no there's no gold mine of saucers in some northern utah shed. gordon didn't hold any controls and fly a prototype around a warehouse for 10 min. he did watch a large fiberglass prototype on a scale lifting 12 times it own weight when it was revved up....that's it. oh, he also ate watermelon with us. then he didn't contact us to see if the story was right, or that he was publishing info on us. we found out about it quite by accident. there you go...bash that. ha ha.

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That's interesting artsy, bash it? Is that a challenge?

WhatI do know if Cooper says in this book:

The only sound was from the remote generator. Cooper was amazed, he commented:

"Boy, I thought, we've been going the wrong way all these years with winged aircraft."

LINK

But he never gave Wendell the right exposure, even though he would have the connections, or make more money than Bill Gates by marketing this design. Curious that he would be happy to leave something so amazing to a novel, and not to make squilions on, or even to benefit mankind isn't it? Shame he not still with us, what an interesting question that would be.

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Thanks for posting that.i will get that book.

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Thanks for this new insight, let me ponder it!!

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gordon didn't hold any controls and fly a prototype around a warehouse for 10 min. he did watch a large fiberglass prototype on a scale lifting 12 times it own weight when it was revved up....

Where did he claim he flew it? In his book?

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Where did he claim he flew it? In his book?

I looked through my copy of 'Leap of Faith' last night and couldn't find it. Any help?

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Still quite the unique Man G.Cooper ! Maybe there are things in this world we know not of ! :tu:

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That's interesting artsy, bash it? Is that a challenge?

WhatI do know if Cooper says in this book:

The only sound was from the remote generator. Cooper was amazed, he commented:

"Boy, I thought, we've been going the wrong way all these years with winged aircraft."

LINK

But he never gave Wendell the right exposure, even though he would have the connections, or make more money than Bill Gates by marketing this design. Curious that he would be happy to leave something so amazing to a novel, and not to make squilions on, or even to benefit mankind isn't it? Shame he not still with us, what an interesting question that would be.

Been there, done that.

WS606A-5.gif

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar for more. Not the spectacular failure of the Viper-engined test stand prototype. Symptomatic of a key problem with all such saucer designs: a centrally mounted engine suffers from a severe look of cooling airflow.

Then there's all the other designs, like the Coanda effect saucers (from the description it sounds like a classic Coanda effect). None of the people making Coanda saucers have made squillions. Newer and better designs for aircraft have been made over the years. The Americans are notoriously conservative for aircraft design, however, and anything that doesn't have the elevators at the back is suspect. Let alone a circular flying wing! Heaven forbid. The actual development for new aircraft types is extremely long and complex. The 787 is probably the prime example of this. Also, I suspect a lot of these radical designs have the equivalent of a "jesus nut" like helicopters have (it breaks and you're going to see Jesus right NOW). Flying wings have notorious pitch control problems, only solved with the advent of fly-by-wire computer assisted flight control (and there's your jesus nut... although many modern aircraft have that now as witnessed by the Air France tragedy). Add in the fact that airports are not equipped to handle such radically different aircraft... and no investors are interested. Militaries are only interested in new body types for stealth or agility purposes. Fuel economy and performance doesn't matter so much.

A circular wing might be great for hovering, but it's not much cop for actually flying long distances. Our traditional aircraft do that pretty well. What he saw may well have been some kind of top secret saucer program which ran counter to the known (and defunct) ARO saucer. Though why the US gubbmint would be flying such a thing low over some farmland where it could easily crash and questions be asked is beyond me. The lack of windows is interesting though, as is the lack of any riveted construction common at the time. I'm quite sure Wellden would have noticed such a detail.

Edited by Captain Zim
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What I find weird is how when serious investigations are made of major 'VIP UFOs', the results are covered up by UFO promoters and people can act as if they don't exist.

Check out my G. Cooper section at www.jamesoberg.com/ufo.html

You don't have to agree with it. But you owe yourself some sharp slaps to the face about your silly assumption that just because you never heard of some research, it can't exist and you can make false fun of people for never having performed it.

Wise up.

To some degree, though, you may have tripped over the same principal I developed some years ago. It is correct to say that reports from famous people are not investigated -- by the UFO believers, who fear risking finding explanatikons thay want to not know about.

So they never check, or verify. They keep their eyes and minds closed to potential prosaic explanations, to avoid harming the propaganda value of the raw reports. They just demand that famous people be automatically believed.

Was that what you were arguing?

Hello JimOberg,

I'm really not sure why I should be slapping myself and I certainly didn't make 'false fun' of anyone or group....

*baffled*

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Posted (edited)

well, I'm a little late to this site that is talking about my dad, wendell welling. and bashing gordon cooper. somewhat interesting that grown men try to one up each other.

. bless gordon's heart. he didn't write down his memories of northern utah quite soon enough, and got a few facts wrong. but he was excited and meant well, I think. I don't know how he found out about my dad's prototype saucers, but by the time he found us, my dad was long gone....and yes my husband scott was trying to continue with the plans of the flying saucers, but didn't understand what wendell had in mind. scott has since passed away also at an early age. the saucers have been divvied out to relatives, and though people ask to look at the plans, I don't think they are monumental or profound technology. wendell and 3 others saw a flying saucer at close range in '59. wendell didn't believe in them until that moment! (his hired hand also saw one, later on, land on the wheat farm 10 miles to the north) he looked hard and long and said he didn't dare look away, because it blended in with the sky so much (not reflective) he was afraid he wouldn't be able to see it again if he did look away. he studied every bit of it for the short amount of time it hovered within a block of the men in montpelier, idaho. He was 42 at the time and spent the rest of his short life trying to replicate it and convince others of the existence of UFOs. his adult co-sighters denied the sighting, because not many believed in '59, and they were respected citizens. then later in their lives apologized to scott as scott found them, wanting to know their stories,..they were embarrassed that they were so chicken to admit it back in '59, and understood why wendell felt betrayed. wendell was never a chicken, and got quite a reputation. when anyone in the area had a sighting, they'd run to our door because they knew my dad would believe them and their ghost white faces. when he died people came out of the woodwork saying how much they'd helped him with his prototypes (most of their 'help' was being awestruck & staring as my dad explained) and if anything came of the saucers, they wanted their share. another good reason not to pursue development.

so no, the plans were never sold to foreign countries, and no there's no gold mine of saucers in some northern utah shed. gordon didn't hold any controls and fly a prototype around a warehouse for 10 min. he did watch a large fiberglass prototype on a scale lifting 12 times it own weight when it was revved up....that's it. oh, he also ate watermelon with us. then he didn't contact us to see if the story was right, or that he was publishing info on us. we found out about it quite by accident. there you go...bash that. ha ha.

I only just found out that artsy had replied to this old thread, so, to artsy, MANY THANKS! :)

Very very interesting and a shame that 'the work' wasn't continued....

It's interesting that you say Gordon exagerated a bit but I'm guessing he was still very impressed with the design....

If you still check this forum artsy, can you tell us how his aircraft were powered and how they produced thrust?

Thanks again!!

(artsy joined UM just to respond to this thread which she found by accident when she googled her Dad :) )

Edited by Paxus

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Where did he claim he flew it? In his book?

Can anybody help? If Cooper really claimed this, i'd sure like to see it in black and white.

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Posted (edited)

Can anybody help? If Cooper really claimed this, i'd sure like to see it in black and white.

Yes, in his book, from page 232 on to about 237.

FOUND THE THREAD I WROTE ABOUT IT!

I even typed out what it said in the book:

http://www.unexplain...topic=201809=

Edited by Paxus

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Yes, in his book, from page 232 on to about 237.

FOUND THE THREAD I WROTE ABOUT IT!

I even typed out what it said in the book:

http://www.unexplain...topic=201809=

Thanks, I didn't look back far enough.

Is there any other interpretation except to state that Gordon Cooper just couldn't keep fantasy and reality apart in his mind?

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Cooper will be Cooper ! Has a track record ,one can read and see ITs all in His own mind ! :tu:

Great Post Jim !

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Paxus, if I write up a historical memo about this claim,

and the explanatory letter, how should I footnote that letter?

Date, to whom, etc? I can't just cite a code name at a

website, that's unverifiable. Please email me with

the information you want me to use: jamesEoberg at Comcast dot net

Yes, in his book, from page 232 on to about 237.

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UPDATE -- I tracked 'artsy' down, she provided new details [to share shortly], but sadly, took no photos of the visit. This was a GREAT lead!!

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