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Socio

"We are going to get the Falklands back"

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Why not negotiate with Argentina? See what they put on the table? It could be beneficial to the Islanders (they used to send heir kids to Argentine Universities in the past). Nobody is saying that the Falklanders have to accept their proposals, but it is plain childish NOT to hear them...

Because Argentina doesn't want to negotiate either. The British have tried before and the Argentines refused. We're talking about a country that openly permits vandalisation of British businesses in Argentina.

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Would you like to be more specific?

Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .

Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .

Edited by danydandan

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Because Argentina doesn't want to negotiate either. The British have tried before and the Argentines refused. We're talking about a country that openly permits vandalisation of British businesses in Argentina.

Argentina is willing to negotiate with the UK. The thing is, the IK wantsto bring the islanders into the negotiation too as an active player, thing that it wanst in the UN call for negotiation.

Back on what keithisco said, not only the islanders come to get higher learning, but also medical treatments, and also got fresher food and products. It is shorter to get to Rio Gallegos than Puerto Arenas.

And about Right Wing, the internet is full of armchair generals that call for attacks and nuking of targets, but they would hide under their beed if they have to defend their nation.

BTW, 14 pages on this thread, woo!

Edited by Mekorig

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Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .

Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .

We paid for the Rock of Gibralter,Last time i looked India was a fully fledged independant democracy.I Assume you mean Northern Ireland which also democratically decided it wanted to remain under British rule.

Argentina has no claim to the Falklands,never has never will and if we choose not to negotiate that is our right.

While we are splitting hairs,maybe the French should give up Brettony,the Spanish the Basque country,the Dutch should give up Friesland,Sweden should give up Lappland and oh maybe Italy might consider giving up Sardinia..

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As an American who loves international politics and anything to do with the military, I was very aware of what happened in the Falklands. It seemed to me at the time that the Argentines were badly over reaching. My mother's maiden name is Sheffield so when the namesake ship was sunk I was saddened. I was introduced to the lethality of the exocet which would kill some American sailors a few years later - at the hands of some Iraqi pilot. But time passes and memories fade. I must admit that I'm surprised that this thread is 14 pages long, though I guess I shouldn't be. I just wasn't aware how seriously British citizens looked upon the Falklands affair.

The trend (perfected by the "Palestinians")of taking a grievance to the UN and pressuring a sovereign country to give up territory that otherwise would require a war to take has been seen by Argentina as a chance to get at least a shared sovereignty or some other concession from Britain without a shot fired. You can't blame them for trying :huh:

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We paid for the Rock of Gibralter,Last time i looked India was a fully fledged independant democracy.I Assume you mean Northern Ireland which also democratically decided it wanted to remain under British rule.

Argentina has no claim to the Falklands,never has never will and if we choose not to negotiate that is our right.

While we are splitting hairs,maybe the French should give up Brettony,the Spanish the Basque country,the Dutch should give up Friesland,Sweden should give up Lappland and oh maybe Italy might consider giving up Sardinia..

None where handed over , all where fought for , and killed many people .

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Argentina is willing to negotiate with the UK.

Since when?

The thing is, the IK wantsto bring the islanders into the negotiation too as an active player, thing that it wanst in the UN call for negotiation.

And what's wrong with that? This is the Islander's futures you're talking about here. The least that they could get is a say on who they want to be associated with. It isn't a dastardly trick by the evil wicked colonial British but a gesture to get the Islanders involved in determining their own future. Something which should be done with a lot of other populated disputed territories worldwide.

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Argentina is willing to negotiate with the UK. The thing is, the IK wantsto bring the islanders into the negotiation too as an active player, thing that it wanst in the UN call for negotiation.

Back on what keithisco said, not only the islanders come to get higher learning, but also medical treatments, and also got fresher food and products. It is shorter to get to Rio Gallegos than Puerto Arenas.

And about Right Wing, the internet is full of armchair generals that call for attacks and nuking of targets, but they would hide under their beed if they have to defend their nation.

BTW, 14 pages on this thread, woo!

Something tells me that Argentina's hopes of re-possessing Las Islas Malvinas one day relies heavily on how much oil the Rockhopper Exploration finds when they start digging in 2016.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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Something tells me that Argentina's hopes of re-possessing Las Islas Malvinas one day relies heavily on how much oil the Rockhopper Exploration finds when they start digging in 2016.

talking about oil - the UK offered Argentina 60% share on any oil found around the Falklands but Argentina pulled out of the agreement negotiations in 2007. i remember thinking 60% is generous, but it was down to the infrastructure Argentina could/would be providing. not a bad deal.

and the end of the day there is nothing to negotiate Argentina has no grounds for a claim. they dont have the ability to take back the islands by force so from that point the only negotiations i want to see are -------------

astute11.jpg

Edited by stevewinn

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Argentina is willing to negotiate with the UK. The thing is, the IK wantsto bring the islanders into the negotiation too as an active player, thing that it wanst in the UN call for negotiation.

Back on what keithisco said, not only the islanders come to get higher learning, but also medical treatments, and also got fresher food and products. It is shorter to get to Rio Gallegos than Puerto Arenas.

And about Right Wing, the internet is full of armchair generals that call for attacks and nuking of targets, but they would hide under their beed if they have to defend their nation.

BTW, 14 pages on this thread, woo!

If a major war erupted I would do my duty just like 99% of my country would.

I expect that kind of reply from an Argentinian however let me ask you this. Since as you are Argentinian explain it here, for all to see, what your 'claim' on the Falkland Islands is. Explain why you are trying to claim rights to a colony which used to be Spanish not Argentinian and why you think its okay to ignore the fact its been British for nearly 200 years.

The Falklands is 300 miles away from Argentinia not part of your territory. Its like Mexico suddemly deciding Cuba is its. Its also populated by British citizens.

Edited by Mr Right Wing

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astute11.jpg

The funny thing is those two vessels are all we need to send to defeat a South American naval/air threat.

Edited by Mr Right Wing

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Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .

Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .

The six counties for the most part are happy where they are, as with the Falklands it should be up to the people where their alliances reside.

Edited by Farmerboy

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Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .

Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .

Handed back to who? there was no united Ireland prior to British rule. Do you see a pattern emerging here the peoples of the Falklands, Gibraltar and northern Ireland all want to stay part of the UK, Britain must be doing something right, when a majority want to leave (democracy) they can but until that day comes they're all British citizens.

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The funny thing is those two vessels are all we need to send to defeat a South American naval/air threat.

Maybe Argentina and Uruguay, but not all of South America. You haven't reckoned on the sort of air power Chile or Venezuela can muster. The former in particular probably has the best air force in all of Latin America.

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Maybe Argentina and Uruguay, but not all of South America. You haven't reckoned on the sort of air power Chile or Venezuela can muster. The former in particular probably has the best air force in all of Latin America.

hmm. 46 F-16s. That might give mr. Cameroon some cause to rethink his idea that fleet air support isn't important.

* And so, ironically in view of Mr. Chavez' not being the U.S's No.1 fan (and vice versa) does Venezuela. Now who decided to sell them those, i wonder? Su-30s, F-5s, and something called Hongdu K-8W Karakorum, as well, I see. Quite an interesting inventory.

Edited by 747400

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All of this talk about "who has the biggest gun" is complete nonsense, and frankly not edifying disgust.gif

If the UK or Argentina were convinced of the Legality of their claims then one of them would have gone to the International Courts for recognition. As neither have, then it must be assumed that neither feel entirely confident in their claims.

I think we are all sophisticated enough to know that the recent discovery of small amounts of oil is driving the current sabre - rattling, so if the UK extracts the oil and sends it to Argentina for processing then everyone will be happy, because both nations will profit. This is not Rocket Science people, this is Diplomacy.

Lets forget about "Biggest Gun" mentality and actually put the claims before the Internaional Courts of Law. If Argentina is awarded the Islands then the only difference is an Argentine Flag flying over the Town Hall

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I'm not rattling any Sabres. I was just browsing through various South American countries' inventories. Some of them are quite interesting. I see that Chile now has the former HMS Sheffield (III). Regarding, though, your wise & profound observation, from the perspective of a good EU Citizen, it may indeed not matter what flag is flying over your town hall, but with some other countries, the people might not be so sanguine about who they have governing them. Should they just be told that they should be Sensible and not mind about that?

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Yeah I think the Islanders will notice being annexed against their will.

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Yeah I think the Islanders will notice being annexed against their will.

Britain is more powerful than Argentina and we have a UN Veto.

A UN Veto means we could do what we like to Argentina and get away with it (even nuking them).

I dont understand why Argentina likes sticking its head in the lions mouth. Bit foolish if you ask me.

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I'm not rattling any Sabres. I was just browsing through various South American countries' inventories. Some of them are quite interesting. I see that Chile now has the former HMS Sheffield (III). Regarding, though, your wise & profound observation, from the perspective of a good EU Citizen, it may indeed not matter what flag is flying over your town hall, but with some other countries, the people might not be so sanguine about who they have governing them. Should they just be told that they should be Sensible and not mind about that?

I did state Tri-partite negotiations in a previous post. If the deal is good enough for the Falklanders then where lies the issue? If they agree to it, then it is their decision. To refuse to even listen to Argentina's offer is crass.

Edited by keithisco

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Britain is more powerful than Argentina and we have a UN Veto.

A UN Veto means we could do what we like to Argentina and get away with it (even nuking them).

I dont understand why Argentina likes sticking its head in the lions mouth. Bit foolish if you ask me.

Likely because they know no one in the British government is stupid or crazy enough to start throwing around nukes like you keep wanting.

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We should

Just like in prison no one messes with the crazy dude.

no they gang up and kill him in the shower :blink:

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There is only a problem because Argentina is trying to flex her muscles again, unfortunately until the respective minerals that are being fought over have been extracted, pilfered and spirited away this furore wont be ending anytime soon...mores the pity

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There comes a point where negotiations become futile, and even morally bankrupt.

Argentina has embedded sovereignty of the Falklands into its constitution. The relevant passage is..

First.- The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, Georgias del Sur and Sandwich del Sur Islands and over the corresponding maritime and insular zones, as they are an integral part of the National territory. The recovery of said territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respectful of the way of life of their inhabitants and according to the principles of international law, are a permanent and unrelinquished goal of the Argentine people.

The full text can be found here .

In light of this, it is difficult to understand how Argentina can negotiate in good faith, when they have nothing to negotiate WITH. They have already stated that the only acceptable outcome is full sovereignty. Of particular interest is the inclusion of the term "non-prescribing sovereignty", which is a legal term for "forever... no matter how much time has passed or may pass in the future". (sort of.. )

Following from THAT, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that any negotiations by Argentina are merely a tactic to achieve the goal of full sovereignty, and NOT a genuine attempt to resolve a political difference by means of some compromise.

Set against this is the paucity of their claim for the Islands. The United Provinces of the Río de la Plata (The precursor-nation to Argentina) never created - or supported - an 'official' state-sponsored colony on the Falklands.

Lets read that again.. no official colony.

The nearest they got - and their strongest (and only ?) claim - arose from a private individual (Luis Vernet, a recently nationalised German businessman) who used his own funds to set up a commercial fishing operation on one of the Islands, mostly staffed by Europeans. This was a private initiative, given little or no practical assistance by the State. Indeed, the State refused to even send a warship to defend the colony when it was in danger of attack. (from the Americans, I beleive ?? ). It later gave him colonisation rights over East Falklands. Seeing as it did not control either East Falkland, nor the fishing grounds, these where both completely empty ceremonial gestures (with neither basis in law, nor the practical ability to enforce either of them). The British objected to the Colonisation Rights grant (though they had NO objection to the commercial fishing operation), and a year later (after a total of three years), the colony - still mostly consisting of Europeans - was removed by force by the British.

Argentine schoolchildren are indoctrinated into the concept that the Falklands are Argentinian. And yet despite this, there are relatively few Argentinian tourists.

Set against this seemingly lacklustre degree of practical interest in the Islands (then and now), and set against the subsequent 170 years of continuous British presence and infrastructure development (businesses, hospitals, schools, power, telecommunications, media, and all the trappings of a 20th century nation) and with the Islanders themselves strongly committed to remaining under British sovereignty, what is there REALLY to negotiate about ?

meow purr :)

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Set against this seemingly lacklustre degree of practical interest in the Islands (then and now), and set against the subsequent 170 years of continuous British presence and infrastructure development (businesses, hospitals, schools, power, telecommunications, media, and all the trappings of a 20th century nation) and with the Islanders themselves strongly committed to remaining under British sovereignty, what is there REALLY to negotiate about ?

meow purr :)

With Argentina having no claim to the Falklands Islands I hope if conflict erupts again we nuke.

Edited by Mr Right Wing

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