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quillius

Echo Flight

756 posts in this topic

It does if the claim is that the UAP created, and sent the fault from one missile in the field to the others. It had to come from, or behind the command centre.

perhaps it didn't just pop-up over the lf & came across the field? :unsure:

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so the plot thickens.....

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Sometimes I think they're just here to mess with out minds, to shake us out of our comfort zones and tidy little versions of "reality".

i haven't seen anybody reporting that they were being fed with certain extrasolar philosophers stones... :unsure2: despite the fact that earth-based hallucinogens/entheogens are freely available... :P

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In this case, the few primary sources we have are "incomplete" at best, and may well have been edited or altered.

I don't think Figel's statements have been altered or edited in the way James Carlson claims.

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I don't think Figel's statements have been altered or edited in the way James Carlson claims.

Oh, I don't believe that they were, either, since he said basically the same thing time and time again, and we only have James Carlson's say-so that he changed his story later. That's not exactly coin of the realm with me.

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possible correlations...

It has already been said that more classic “earthlight phenomena” tend to very often occur close to the ground (an example is shown in Fig. 4), but similar light balls also have been seen high in the sky, and we do not yet know if the two represent the same phenomenon or not. Assuming that – as we expect and sometimes have even measured – these light balls may be associated with a more or less intense electromagnetic, magnetic or electrostatic field, it is obviously strongly suspected that this can, in principle, occasionally interfere with electrical equipment and with the electronics of vehicles on ground such as cars. Cases of transient car malfunction or blackout are not uncommon, even if most of these cases are purely testimonial and only occasionally appear related to unstructured light balls. Some valuable quantitative examinations of areas that were affected by an anomalous magnetic field after a UAP sighting have been published (Maccabee,1994). One example of the evidence of occasional blackouts or power failures – in the specific case of measurement equipment – comes from the first intensive monitoring campaign carried out by Project Hessdalen in 1984 (Strand, 1984); this happened mostly when spherical lights were sighted or approached observers.

http://www.narcap.org/Projsphere/2.4-e2-narcap_ProjSph_MaxTeo.pdf

An electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) is a burst of electromagnetic radiation. The abrupt pulse of electromagnetic radiation usually results from certain types of high energy explosions, especially a nuclear explosion, or from a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting rapidly changing electric fields and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

maybe it was an emf... :o

In physics, electromotive force, emf (seldom capitalized), or electromotance (dentoed ε and measured in volts) refers to voltage generated by a battery or by the magnetic force according to Faraday's Law -- which states that a time varying magnetic field will induce an electric current.

Devices that can provide emf include electrochemical cells, thermoelectric devices, solar cells, electrical generators, transformers, and even Van de Graaff generators.[2][6] In nature, emf is generated whenever magnetic field fluctuations occur through a surface. An example for this is the varying Earth magnetic field during a geomagnetic storm, acting on anything on the surface of the planet, like an extended electrical grid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotive_force

or perhaps ghosts... :huh:

http://www.sgha.net/articles/emp_pt2.html

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The date on the website is October 2010. I don't know how many UFOs were reported, but it was probably more than one. These places were constructed with a nuclear war in mind, so they might have wanted to make this secure enough to survive even a blast like that:

"Absolutely Not Terrestrial Aircraft

DID YOU ALL KNOW AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE DEALING WITH SOMETHING FROM OUTER SPACE THAT WAS NOT HUMAN?

Absolutely we knew it! These were not aircraft. We even discussed this in that first phone conversation I had with the guards. They assured me these were not airplanes! So they knew they were something from elsewhere.

IN FACT IN MARCH 1967, ONE OF THE ECHO FLIGHT SECURITY POLICEMEN AND IM QUOTING FROM YOUR 1999 SUMMARY OF ALL THIS BY ROBERT SALAS AND JIM KLOTZ . YOU REPORTED THAT ONE OF THE SECURITY POLICEMEN WAS SO AFFECTED BY HIS ENCOUNTER WITH ONE OF THE BIG, RED, GLOWING OBJECTS IN THE SKY THAT HE NEVER RETURNED TO MISSILE SECURITY DUTY.

Thats true. In fact, that happened not only at ECHO Flight, but at OSCAR Flight. I know at least one case where one of the security guards lost control of himself and wandered off. They had to bring people out to pick him up and take him to the base hospital. He was just out of it!

HOW WERE THE SAT (Security Alert) TEAM DESCRIBING WHAT THEY WERE SEEING?

It was a reddish-orange, pulsating object. It was about 30 feet in diameter and it was just sitting there (in the air). It had all the guards out there with their weapons out and they were frightened. Very frightened!

YOU WERE GETTING THESE DESCRIPTIONS DOWN UNDERGROUND ABOUT HOW DEEP?

Yeah, I was sixty feet underground. We were locked in. We were obligated to stay there until we were relieved by another crew - obviously because we were in control of ten nuclear weapons."

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?articleId=988563&func=5&boardId=544978&inc_reply=1&is_ref=1

People can say "what they saw" until they are blue in the face. It does not change the fact that the wring paths did not exist, and the fault as has been described simply physically cannot happen. It is as simple as that.

Ever seen a person return something to a shop broken and said "I never touched it" Yet the tape on the box is ripped off, and all the seals broken? This is that very same mysterious force at work.

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where did 'outer space' come from?

hurr-durr-derp-face-i-dont-know-therefore-aliens.jpg

hilarious.jpg

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I don't think Figel's statements have been altered or edited in the way James Carlson claims.

Didn't Figel send an email himself stating what he was and was not willing to stand behind?

Although I think Figel has not had a dog in this race for a couple years now.

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possible correlations...

maybe it was an emf... :o

or perhaps ghosts... :huh:

http://www.sgha.net/articles/emp_pt2.html

To compliment further...

Harmonics (electrical power)

One of the major effects of power system harmonics is to increase the current in the system. This is particularly the case for the third harmonic, which causes a sharp increase in the zero sequence current, and therefore increases the current in the neutral conductor. This effect can require special consideration in the design of an electric system to serve non-linear loads.[1]

In addition to the increased line current, different pieces of electrical equipment can suffer effects from harmonics on the power system.

Cheers.

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People can say "what they saw" until they are blue in the face. It does not change the fact that the wring paths did not exist, and the fault as has been described simply physically cannot happen. It is as simple as that.

Ever seen a person return something to a shop broken and said "I never touched it" Yet the tape on the box is ripped off, and all the seals broken? This is that very same mysterious force at work.

That makes no sense either. Are you saying that nothing happened at all? Clearly something did happen, though, because we know that the missiles did shut down.

http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/us-air-force-fighters-chased-ufos-at-malmstrom-afb-in-the-1960s-and-70s

We know that UFOs were tracked on radar at Malmstron and jet interceptors were sent up against this evasive and high-speed targets, which were moving much faster than any jets known at the time, even the SR-71 Blackbirds.

There are probably a lot more documents about this that have never been declassified. I certainly did not believe James Carlson's assertion that he had the full declassified record of this incident--no way.

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In Leslie Kean's book, there are reports of UFOs opening the concrete doors on the missile silos, which weigh 20 tons. I don't know how this is possible but something is going on here. I know that I've read similar reports from other sources:

http://books.google.com/books?id=g2bqkPkPwA8C&pg=PA139&lpg=PA139&dq=new+malmstrom+ufo+records&source=bl&ots=VzdRL5zyEe&sig=wKP5dVbOqTEJZRjI-fvHFnWUq5Y&hl=en&ei=mZJMTsW1D4rogQf_iNnzBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

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That makes no sense either. Are you saying that nothing happened at all? Clearly something did happen, though, because we know that the missiles did shut down.

http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/us-air-force-fighters-chased-ufos-at-malmstrom-afb-in-the-1960s-and-70s

I did not say that, I said the fault cannot happen as described. Not sure how a man of your abilities did not pick that up!

Again with my descriptor, the fault could not be generated by a UFO hovering over a missile to have the effect as described by the Bobs. Just cannot happen.

We know that UFOs were tracked on radar at Malmstron and jet interceptors were sent up against this evasive and high-speed targets, which were moving much faster than any jets known at the time, even the SR-71 Blackbirds.

Perhaps, but this has naught to do with the fact the the wires this fault had to travel were never installed. And these instances remain UFO's. Which means they could really be anything, and not related to site faults in any way.

There are probably a lot more documents about this that have never been declassified. I certainly did not believe James Carlson's assertion that he had the full declassified record of this incident--no way.

Possible, although I do not see why they would remain classified to this day unless there is a communications protocol that has been kept under wraps.

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In Leslie Kean's book, there are reports of UFOs opening the concrete doors on the missile silos, which weigh 20 tons. I don't know how this is possible but something is going on here. I know that I've read similar reports from other sources:

http://books.google.com/books?id=g2bqkPkPwA8C&pg=PA139&lpg=PA139&dq=new+malmstrom+ufo+records&source=bl&ots=VzdRL5zyEe&sig=wKP5dVbOqTEJZRjI-fvHFnWUq5Y&hl=en&ei=mZJMTsW1D4rogQf_iNnzBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

I honestly do not know what to think of Leslie Kean. She tries to make out that she is distanced from the ET argument, but it is plainly obvious that this is not the case. I find this confuses me into a skeptical viewpoint of her work.

Concrete doors! Well I suppose a very very strong magnet would be an idea, and I would bet rags to riches that the concrete is steel reinforced, however, I would be more looking for a hack. Such big doors I think would likely have motors opening them. I do not think such monstrosities would be handled manually. Where we have tech, we have glitches, which for some reason reminds me of the older term "gremlins" in the machines.

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I honestly do not know what to think of Leslie Kean. She tries to make out that she is distanced from the ET argument, but it is plainly obvious that this is not the case. I find this confuses me into a skeptical viewpoint of her work.

Concrete doors! Well I suppose a very very strong magnet would be an idea, and I would bet rags to riches that the concrete is steel reinforced, however, I would be more looking for a hack. Such big doors I think would likely have motors opening them. I do not think such monstrosities would be handled manually. Where we have tech, we have glitches, which for some reason reminds me of the older term "gremlins" in the machines.

Keep in mind that this snippet from Chapter 14 of her book, titled France and the UFO Question, was actually written by Jean-Jacques Velasco. I haven't been able to find corroboration for this tale anywhere yet either. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, just that I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate it so far.

One of the parts that I find curiously dubious is that the fence was open... why would an ET piloted UFO open the fence? It doesn't really make sense. But then, that is part and parcel for this business isn't it?

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Keep in mind that this snippet from Chapter 14 of her book, titled France and the UFO Question, was actually written by Jean-Jacques Velasco. I haven't been able to find corroboration for this tale anywhere yet either. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, just that I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate it so far.

One of the parts that I find curiously dubious is that the fence was open... why would an ET piloted UFO open the fence? It doesn't really make sense. But then, that is part and parcel for this business isn't it?

Have you seen her facebook page?

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According to this history of the construction of Minuteman 1 silos in South Dakota, the Hardened Intersite Cable System (HICS) that connected the whole system was 4-8 feet underground, while the launch control facilities were 40-80 feet underground:

"Army Corps representatives negotiated with several hundred more property owners for easements for the underground HICS connecting the LFs and LCFs. These cables, installed four to eight feet below ground and used to transmit data between missile sites, required a temporary construction easement of thirty-five feet in width for approximately 1,732 miles between all 165 sites. After construction was complete, the government obtained a permanent easement for a path sixteen and one-half feet wide.xii Following installation of the HICS, landowners could return to using the land above the cable for normal ranching or agricultural activities."

http://www.nps.gov/mimi/historyculture/upload/The%20Missile%20Plains%20Section%20II%20Chapter%203.pdf

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There is some discussion of this HICS underground cable system on the Missile Forums, although they never allow any mention of UFOs there:

"What did hardened underground cable system mean? Did they replace/upgrade all the cables between LCCs and LFs? I seem to remember when the wings were built the cables were simply buried wire cables and sometimes farmers would cut them. When I left Minot in 1972 CDB was something that was going to be the next upgrade after the Mod. We understood it would let the crews change targeting info from the LCC.

"All the cable systems were not just buried wires. The actual wiring was encased in a tube that was kept pressurized with air from compressors at the LCFs. If a cable was cut or something intruded into the casing there would be a cable pressure alarm.

Also, the A systems used redundant cables that ran to the LFs so if one was cut or destroyed there were others to keep connectivity."

http://www.missileforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=912

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According to this history of the construction of Minuteman 1 silos in South Dakota, the Hardened Intersite Cable System (HICS) that connected the whole system was 4-8 feet underground, while the launch control facilities were 40-80 feet underground:

"Army Corps representatives negotiated with several hundred more property owners for easements for the underground HICS connecting the LFs and LCFs. These cables, installed four to eight feet below ground and used to transmit data between missile sites, required a temporary construction easement of thirty-five feet in width for approximately 1,732 miles between all 165 sites. After construction was complete, the government obtained a permanent easement for a path sixteen and one-half feet wide.xii Following installation of the HICS, landowners could return to using the land above the cable for normal ranching or agricultural activities."

http://www.nps.gov/mimi/historyculture/upload/The%20Missile%20Plains%20Section%20II%20Chapter%203.pdf

That sounds a lot more like a real installation. I perhaps did not have the full story earlier when a claim was made that cables were underground 60 feet. They might drop vertically to such a location, but I cannot imagine a cable run being buried 60 feet deep. It would have to be extraordinary circumstances.

Now that I think of it, one recent post said the cables were triple shielded didn't it? Wasn't cable shielding a recommendation from the final report?

Edited by psyche101

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There is some discussion of this HICS underground cable system on the Missile Forums, although they never allow any mention of UFOs there:

"What did hardened underground cable system mean? Did they replace/upgrade all the cables between LCCs and LFs? I seem to remember when the wings were built the cables were simply buried wire cables and sometimes farmers would cut them. When I left Minot in 1972 CDB was something that was going to be the next upgrade after the Mod. We understood it would let the crews change targeting info from the LCC.

"All the cable systems were not just buried wires. The actual wiring was encased in a tube that was kept pressurized with air from compressors at the LCFs. If a cable was cut or something intruded into the casing there would be a cable pressure alarm.

Also, the A systems used redundant cables that ran to the LFs so if one was cut or destroyed there were others to keep connectivity."

http://www.missileforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=912

hardened underground cable system translated to Oz speak is direct buried cabling system

I am not entirely sure of installation practices in general back in the 50's but I do know that for the last 3 decades few totally rely on "direct bury"cabling. Underground conduits not only provide mechanical protection, but they are a massive assistance where maintenance and installation is concerned. You cannot pull a cable say 500 feet (Not used to US terms, but this should explain my point) so you have a series of pits, these have lockable lids, so if the installation was pressurized (which is very unusual) they would have to be lockable GATIC pit lids. Contractors would have to be careful about sealing the conduits into the pits. Today we still "direct bury" it is quite common for cabling on the national grid and where it is an advantage to your installation - for instance ambient ground temperature lowers the cable temperature which gives the copper better current carrying properties. And of course, the cost saving as you are not buying kilometers of conduit, if your cable is not coming out again, it makes sense to direct bury in this situation. But in general, particularly control cables that will be upgraded/replaced/maintained at some point for sure will always be in a conduit. Same with buildings, you run conduits through the concrete slabs to get wires around the building so they can be withdrawn when upgrading/adding/maintenance. Redundant cabling is quite common as well, most installations will ask for as much as 40% redundancy. If a core in your cable fails, you just pick a redundant one and make downtime as little as possible.

Methods that are still in practice today, I guess if something isn't broken you do not fix it.

They do not allow UFO talk at missile forums at all? That's funny. I understand why, it is quite off topic, but it is still funny.

Edited by psyche101

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The cables were indeed pressurized and monitored. Any loss or significant drop in pressure alerted the launch crews that either a cable was cut or punctured. Cut cables did occur due to ranchers using a backhoe or heavy trenching tool. One of the main issues was to detect the possibility of someone tapping into the communication lines and generating false commands. A totally cut line could mean a sabotage attempt. In cases of loss of pressure in the cable system, there was a specific flight security protocol that was put in place which required the security personnel to patrol the flight area. In my day, all commands were sent encrypted through the lines, though we could also send clear text commands if the need occurred.

The HICS cables would have been buried at a depth that would have been fairly easy to expose for repair purposes, yet deep enough to discourage those digging for what ever reasons...more than likely this was one of the reasons for pressurizing the lines as a monitoring defense.

The depth of the LCCs depended upon the geological conditions of the area. Sites SW of Great Falls were buried at a depth of around 40 feet. This was due to the low water tables of the area as I do recall issues of hydrostatic pressure forcing water to drip into the sump pump area underneath the capsule. Most of the sites that I pulled my alerts in were at far deeper depths: Lima was 120 feet deep! and the rest of the 490th SMS LCCs were around 90 feet in depth.

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Thanks Tim, that would make sense, although I think these days you would just run a wire trace to see if something was broken, but in the interests of security, I can see now why they would be pressurized. Not common down here at least, I have been heavily involved in Military installations and perimeter security seems more paramount these days.

Digging cables up is still a problem, here in Australia we now have a service called "Dial before you dig" and they have good maps of cable routes, but it still happens from time to time. Major fibre to the Gold Coast was cut a few years back by accident. Took half the businesses on the Northern costal front out.

Always good to learn new things, thanks again.

Geology certainly can be a problem, sometimes you hit hard rock and you have no option but to scrape down as far as you can and encase the conduit in concrete.

One big reason people dig up cable is to sell the copper. Worth quite a bit at a scrap metal yard. Quite a few have died trying to retrieve live copper.

Edited by psyche101

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One big reason people dig up cable is to sell the copper. Worth quite a bit at a scrap metal yard. Quite a few have died trying to retrieve live copper.

From what I've read, that's also being done here since the Cold War ended and many of these older silos have been deactivated and demolished. They still left quite a bit of cable in the ground but people are digging it up and selling it for scrap.

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I also read that the concrete doors over the silos weighed as much as 90-100 tons, so it would be no simple matter to open them. Far from it.

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Have you seen her facebook page?

I hadn't before, but I looked it up this morning. She does seem to be full on with promotion still. Many interviews and such. I can't really blame her for that though. The better her book does the better it is for her career overall. And she has been into this subject for over a decade now. She strikes me as someone genuinely interested in what she believes to be true.

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