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crystal sage

Dr. Michio Kaku about Future Civilizations

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Posted (edited)

There are 3 types of civilizations in the Universe.... No 4 types. The Type 1, 2, 3 are powerful civilations. Now what we are on the scale? Whe are type 0! Yeah! Type 0!

It seems Dr. Michio Kaku is a Theoretical Physicist. He has given a very interesting explanation on Type 0/1/2/3 Civilizations in this YouTube Video. Do see it. I have given a small teaser below from that video which will enable you to guess the direction of the discussion.

“When we physicists look in outer space for alien life, we don’t look for little green men. We look for Type-1/Type-2/Type-3 civilizations.

A Type-1 civilization has harnessed its planetary power. They control earthquakes, the weather, volcanoes, they have cities on the ocean, anything planetary – they control. That’s Type-1 civilization.

A Type-2 civilization is stellar. They have exhausted the power of the planet, and they get their energy directly from their mother star. They use the power of the sun itself to energize their huge machines.

Eventually they exhaust the power of a star and go galactic. They harness the power of billions of stars within a galaxy (Thats a Type-3 civilization).

Now what are we on this scale? We are Type-0. We don’t even rate on this scale. We get our energy from not stars and galaxies, but from dead plants – Oil and coal. But we can calculate when we will attain Type-1 status – In about a hundred years!

We are seeing the beginnings of a Type-1 economy. Huge planetary trading blocks are the beginnings of a planetary economy (Referring to European Union, NAFTA, etc). And what is the Internet? The Internet is the beginning of a Type-1 telephone/communications system.

The mathematics says that there should be thousands of Type-1, 2 and 3 civilizations in the galaxy. But we see no evidence of it anywhere. And why is that? Because, the transition from Type-0 to Type-1 is the most dangerous of all transitions. We may not make it. Its a race against time.

On one hand, we have the forces of Integration – the forces of tolerance and multi-cultural fabric emerging before our eyes, on the other hand, we have weapons of mass destruction, germ warfare, nuclear warfare, rise of international terrorism – They are obstacles to reaching a Type-1 civilization”

Some amazing ideas here !!!

Edited by crystal sage

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Dr. Michio Kaku: "The World in 2030 ... How Science will Affect Computers, Medicine, Jobs, Our Lifestyles and the Wealth of our Nations"

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Well, that is his opinion. I disagree on a number of points, among them the rating of anything. For example, how attractive is the prospect of a "Type-3 Civilization" if only a handful of people are there to enjoy the benefits of sucking gas from stars?

A Type-1 civilization has harnessed its planetary power. They control earthquakes, the weather, volcanoes, they have cities on the ocean, anything planetary – they control. That’s Type-1 civilization.

This sounds all well in theory - but can it be done in reality? I know there are chemicals for cloud disintegration and smaller scale operations, but stopping quakes? Volcanoes? Any intelligence that can stop quakes and volcanoes surely are powerful enough not to have to live on planets at all.

A Type-2 civilization is stellar. They have exhausted the power of the planet, and they get their energy directly from their mother star. They use the power of the sun itself to energize their huge machines.

So in other words, civilizations are parasites? They suck up all the power and move on? Sounds strange for a supposedly advanced civilization.

Eventually they exhaust the power of a star and go galactic. They harness the power of billions of stars within a galaxy (Thats a Type-3 civilization).

This is interesting, however if relativity is indeed the "RIP-stone of physics" it would't be possible because all that energy needs to be transported faster than the speed of light.

Now what are we on this scale? We are Type-0. We don’t even rate on this scale. We get our energy from not stars and galaxies, but from dead plants – Oil and coal. But we can calculate when we will attain Type-1 status – In about a hundred years!

Yes, if the rating of civilization is energy-harnessing and if there are other civilizations following these steps. But then again we don't know. Just maybe civilization is not that common, if attainable at all. And if civilizations are uncommon/rare "among the stars", but intelligent life are living there in what we would consider happy lives, would that also count as a "0-civilization"? Or if other intelligent life are living long healthy lives in a pre-industrial civilization?

We are seeing the beginnings of a Type-1 economy. Huge planetary trading blocks are the beginnings of a planetary economy (Referring to European Union, NAFTA, etc). And what is the Internet? The Internet is the beginning of a Type-1 telephone/communications system.

This all sounds good - as long as you can actually benefit from "huge trade blocks" and global communications. The EU? As far as I can see, the EU is slowly breaking down with protests everywhere - Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal. Now, I won't say it will break down, just that it hasn't stood the test of time. And how "global" are we really becoming with the rise of anti-immigrationism and nationalism in the West? And for that matter, who is really benefiting from trade agreements? I don't see my paycheck increased. But I see higher prices on food, oil, electricity, housing, etc. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I don't see us getting closer to Type 1.

The mathematics says that there should be thousands of Type-1, 2 and 3 civilizations in the galaxy. But we see no evidence of it anywhere. And why is that? Because, the transition from Type-0 to Type-1 is the most dangerous of all transitions. We may not make it. Its a race against time.

I disagree. What are the "numbers" in the equation? They could be anything from 0 to a billion. We know we and all the other living things are here, but are yet to find life anywhere else.

On one hand, we have the forces of Integration – the forces of tolerance and multi-cultural fabric emerging before our eyes, on the other hand, we have weapons of mass destruction, germ warfare, nuclear warfare, rise of international terrorism – They are obstacles to reaching a Type-1 civilization”

In that case, I would suggest taking a look on Europe where integration is falling apart with the rise of populist parties everywhere. Terrorism isn't anything new, it's been "around" since the stone age, it's just that it has gotten more attention in later times, and it certainly isn't a threat for civilization as long as the people support that civilization. (For example, how has terrorism destroyed the internet or NAFTA? It hasn't.) While nuclear, biological and chemical warfare is dangerous, even reactors, these types of "hazards" can be controlled. Actual nuclear war is unlikely because it would mean the end of the attacker as well - but nukes are indeed a safeguard against invasion.

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Posted (edited)

Do only physicists look for "Type" civilisations, and do all physicist only accept this philosophy?

All civilisations end up dependent on solar power? What??? No planet ever finds another source of power, none ever use geothermal energy, chemical energies are impossible, Hydrogen fuel is just a waste of time?

We are a type 0? What abut civilizations 2,000 years behind us? What are they? Typer -1?

Dr. Kaku seems to be making some rather grandiose statements there. I would love to see proof that backs them. Wouldn't it be grand of he could find the time to pop in and help enlighten those of us with questions from his answers. Can't say this is one of my favorite Kaku presentations. A brilliant man, no doubt, but I feel at times he bites of more than he can chew.

Edited by psyche101

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Posted (edited)

Or what about this Helium 3 power that NASA and other space agencies are talking about? They think that there's a lot of it on the moon, millions of tons, and one shuttle full of it would be enough to power the United States for a year. No more coal, no more air pollution. China, India, Russia and every other major power is looking seriously at all these new alternatives types of energy.

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276

It it could also be used to power future spaceships, to obtain other exotic resources on various planets. I often wonder why people don't see the possibilities, since there are things out in space more valuable than gold or diamonds.

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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Or what about this Helium 3 power that NASA and other space agencies are talking about? They think that there's a lot of it on the moon, millions of tons, and one shuttle full of it would be enough to power the United States for a year. No more coal, no more air pollution. China, India, Russia and every other major power is looking seriously at all these new alternatives types of energy.

http://www.wired.com...s/2006/12/72276

It it could also be used to power future spaceships, to obtain other exotic resources on various planets. I often wonder why people don't see the possibilities, since there are things out in space more valuable than gold or diamonds.

Which is actually correct from a theoretical point of view. But nobody has the technological means to mine it from the moon...or bring it back for that matter. But even if some did, we don't have the technology for fusion either to use the fuel. We are still some 30 years away from being able to use nuclear fusion and until then He3 will be nothing but an interesting research topic. many people see the vast possibilities, but also realize the practical obstacles that have to be overcome first.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Or what about this Helium 3 power that NASA and other space agencies are talking about? They think that there's a lot of it on the moon, millions of tons, and one shuttle full of it would be enough to power the United States for a year. No more coal, no more air pollution. China, India, Russia and every other major power is looking seriously at all these new alternatives types of energy.

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276

It it could also be used to power future spaceships, to obtain other exotic resources on various planets. I often wonder why people don't see the possibilities, since there are things out in space more valuable than gold or diamonds.

Exactly, if we are to consider the recollections of claims as a type of evidence, and I am sure that Dr Kaku does, how is he discounting the reports of - for instance - a cigar shaped object with a plume of exhaust?

Collective witness descriptions were generally of a cigar-shaped object, luminous or shooting red flames out the rear, leaving a large, highly luminous, twisted vapor trail (spiral, '3' or 'E'-shaped), and traveling at high speed and altitude.

LINK

Type 0 civilizations "breaking the rules" maybe?

Rather a large call there on the good doctors behalf I thought.

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Political scientists and historians would understand a Type 1 civilization as a planet unified under one government with a common currency, global bank, some type of representative institutions, a common security policy and legal system. From our point of view, obviously, that could only be theoretical, although I can see that things have at least been moving in that general direction over the last 50 years.

Then we have to have a name or a type for a civilization that expands out into its own solar system, and so on.

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Exactly, if we are to consider the recollections of claims as a type of evidence, and I am sure that Dr Kaku does, how is he discounting the reports of - for instance - a cigar shaped object with a plume of exhaust?

I don't understand what that reference has to do with anything Kaku said, but I don't find the progression or evolution he describes illogical by historical standards.

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I don't understand what that reference has to do with anything Kaku said, but I don't find the progression or evolution he describes illogical by historical standards.

Sorry, I did cut that a bit short, he says that we will not be burning fuels, but ultimately end up all using solar power, yet if if he takes into account the very descriptions that put us all on this possible path to begin with, the very sightings that some do feel depict possible visitors do indeed appear to be burning fuels. i.e as would be required to create an exhaust plume. If we already do have visitors, he must be wrong according to the very people that fuel the ideal. One wonders if he is listening to those that listen to him. That is but one example I picked with no effort whatsoever to express that if these people are seeing aliens, Dr Kaku would appear to be very wrong. I have to say I am surprised he would offer such a ridiculous absolute when we saw so many pick Professor Hawking to pieces for a mere speculation, yet strangely enough, nobody seems to be calling this fellow an idiot as the many who were happy to deride Professor Hawking for far less.

This is certainly a good place to find a mystery!

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Political scientists and historians would understand a Type 1 civilization as a planet unified under one government with a common currency, global bank, some type of representative institutions, a common security policy and legal system. From our point of view, obviously, that could only be theoretical, although I can see that things have at least been moving in that general direction over the last 50 years.

Then we have to have a name or a type for a civilization that expands out into its own solar system, and so on.

That would make much more sense to me. If we go by our pool of one, we know that hunter/gathering will eventuate into farming, which requires accounting practices, and this propagates into civilisation as we know it.

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