911: Professional experts says it was staged

[Scott G]

yes it is, but people like rafterman have to look for reasons to ignore what is being said, rather than look at what is being said. calling people "nut jobs" just shows the weakness of his argument.

http://www.youtube.c...ReallyGoingOnUS

all the above videos of the recent hearings are valuable,

i would recommend chandler's and harrits presentation for those who pretend and those that choose to ignore the evidence.

Thanks Little Fish; it's nice to have someone back you up. I thought that 6 minute video was quite good. It's nice to know that people in my country are doing such things. I think that those who ignore the evidence may just keep on going in that direction, but I'm also hoping there are some who are willing to take a look at what they have to say.

[Scott G]

Not really. It's an insult but it's not hate speech.

The difference between the two things can get pretty grey sometimes. In any case, it could definitely be billed as libel or slander.

[zenfahr]

Yes, it is a numbers game. If an insignificant number of people believe something, what does it matter.

As I said before, I can probably find 1,500 people who believe I can blow poodles out of my ass.

As for those who believe it, I would argue that if they're not in that 1,500, they do agree with the findings.

At least every architect I've spoken with about it have no issues at all with the official version of events.

Im sure you could find a bunch of idiots that would sign anything you put in front of them.... you are missing the point, and degrading to elementary tactics.

Credible educated people whom work in the field and are willing to stake their reputations are a much different situation.

Also just because you have spoken to every architect does not mean any of those people have really considered the possiblity or have done any research into the structure damage. Or they may seriously not give a rats A about the situation all together.

Tell me if 1500 doctors signed a petition saying that this or that vacination caused cancer, would you not at least consider what they are saying? Or would you with your considerable knowledge of blowing poodles out your bum ignore them in favor of the status quo?

I personally have no stance on this issue, as I dont have any degree in Architecture or Engineering.... But as an educated person, I will say there does seem to be something fishy going on. As a citizen it is my right, and duty to question my government. If they have nothing to hide.... well then open up the study and get a second opinion.

Edited September 14, 2011 by zenfahr

[jugoso]

He also thinks there was no holocaust, and that not cheating during elections ruins all the fun of having elections.

Well all that cheating sure has made some of the American elections more fun(ny).

[Saru]

The difference between the two things can get pretty grey sometimes. In any case, it could definitely be billed as libel or slander.

While referring to someone as a "nutjob" is inflammatory and unneccessary it isn't hate speech and it isn't libel, if anything i'd categorise it as flaming or namecalling. Either way i think we can agree that the use of the word should be avoided.

As such and as a general note to everyone here - please keep your comments civil and respectful.

Thank you.

[Ozner]

You can get anyone to sign a petition if you try hard enough. Just because you have 1,500 signatures doesn't mean that those people are right, or are even fully aware of what they are agreeing to.

[Little Fish]

You can get anyone to sign a petition if you try hard enough. Just because you have 1,500 signatures doesn't mean that those people are right, or are even fully aware of what they are agreeing to.

once again peolpe look for reasons to ignore the evidence rather than look at the evidence. you should check the statements made thoughtfully in their own comfort zone by the petitioners. an online petition is not something you get pressured to sign, an advocacy peer pressure environment like the example you showed is a different story. furthermore they are professionals in the field and have put their reputation on the line coupled with the fact the issue is a more serious nature. penn and teller would not have been able to get any signatures with a proper education in the sciences, that there are idiots out there does not demonstrate the a&e911 petitioners to be idiots.

[Scott G]

While referring to someone as a "nutjob" is inflammatory and unneccessary it isn't hate speech and it isn't libel, if anything i'd categorise it as flaming or namecalling. Either way i think we can agree that the use of the word should be avoided.

As such and as a general note to everyone here - please keep your comments civil and respectful.

Thank you.

In your house, you make the rules, laugh :-). Thanks for the heads up and I'm glad we agree that we should avoid talking about people like that.

[Scott G]

once again peolpe look for reasons to ignore the evidence rather than look at the evidence. you should check the statements made thoughtfully in their own comfort zone by the petitioners. an online petition is not something you get pressured to sign, an advocacy peer pressure environment like the example you showed is a different story. furthermore they are professionals in the field and have put their reputation on the line coupled with the fact the issue is a more serious nature. penn and teller would not have been able to get any signatures with a proper education in the sciences, that there are idiots out there does not demonstrate the a&e911 petitioners to be idiots.

I think the most important thing to realize here is that the Penn and Teller petition and the AE911truth petition are 2 very different creatures. As Little Fish makes clear, there is certainly not the pressure to be signing it, but there's something else as well, and it's actually a very good point. The official 9/11 story has been sold to more people then the alternative stories. And by and large, they're sold in exactly the same way that Penn and Teller sold their petition; by confusing people. I might have signed that petition; Dihydrogen monoxide sounds pretty scary to me. This doesn't mean that I'm an idiot, just that humans in general want to trust people; the woman in the video looks trustable; so I might have said, sure, sounds good. Now if her proposal were to be discussed in a forum where there was atleast one person that knew what Dihydrogen monoxide actually was, I think it's safe to say that the cat would have been out of the bag pretty fast. The events of 9/11 have had 10 years to come out of the bag, and despite atleast one report that support for alternative views is waning, I think the opposite is true; I think that we may be getting to the point where the majority of people are finally beginning to realize that, like Penn and Teller's little petition, people are realizing that they've been had. As Little Fish's 6 minute video demonstrated, people are beginning to realize that we don't need to wait for the government to conduct a new investigation; we can conduct our own. And I think the results are beginning to get people to realize the truth of what happened that day.

[MID]

once again peolpe look for reasons to ignore the evidence rather than look at the evidence. you should check the statements made thoughtfully in their own comfort zone by the petitioners. an online petition is not something you get pressured to sign, an advocacy peer pressure environment like the example you showed is a different story. furthermore they are professionals in the field and have put their reputation on the line coupled with the fact the issue is a more serious nature. penn and teller would not have been able to get any signatures with a proper education in the sciences, that there are idiots out there does not demonstrate the a&e911 petitioners to be idiots.

I think that this entire 9-11 nonsense is simply the result of a generation of Americans who were among those in the post 1950s-1960s era, who were unfortunate victims of the profound decline in education that occurred subsequently.

The unbelievable occurrances of 9-11-01, the spectre of those towers coming down, ignited the lack of rational and critical thinking that are part-and-parcel of the mind of a generation lacking a disciplined scientific and mathematical education.

You just can't believe what you saw happen(if you even did see it happen)that day. It was inconceivable to so many people. Thus, I think that sparked the almost immediate CT, which has taken many forms, from controlled demolition, to a false flag operation or inside job. They're all idiocies, and all somewhat understandable, ignoring as they do, a competent professional investigation.

The problem is that so-called professional people of this geeration will defy the majority and join the uneducated in their silliness sometimes. We all hear about this architech and that engineer who thinks something's fishy. That's fine, of course, but none of these people have ever been vetted, nor have they provided anything of substance to prove their contentions. I would love to see some real, corroborated studies done by real professionals that show definitive proof that a CD was involved in anything on 9-11.

"Pilots for 9-11 Truth?"

Cut me (a pilot with engineering background) a break. What sort of clowns are going to state that the maneuvers of AA77 in the vicinity of the Pentagon were dangerous and too difficult, when they weren't either and aren't the mark of anyone highly skilled?

I'm telling you right now that if those pilots couldn't take a 757 in a 10-20 degree bank at 300 KTS and do a 360 in a descent,never exceeding +/- 0.2 g then I wouldn't be caught alive in one of their airplanes!

Any pilot could do that.

And if they're talking about that final maneuver, pointing the nose down at the side of the building at a -10 pitch and advancing the throttles so as to speed up to around 500 KTS?? Well, that's simple too. Insane, and no pilot would really think of doing it...ever.

maybe some professional investigation team can come up with a case to convict Bush of murdering 3,000 of those who he was sworn to protect (You know, a case for treason?)???

Huh?

Nah. Forget it.

It ain't happening, folks.

You want to believe?

OK, then believe. But I won't waste my time trying to make you prove yourselves. because you can't.

Edited September 14, 2011 by MID

[Little Fish]

I think that this entire 9-11 nonsense is simply the result of a generation of Americans who were among those in the post 1950s-1960s era, who were unfortunate victims of the profound decline in education that occurred subsequently....

once again you are speculating reasons to ignore the evidence.

[Little Fish]

The unbelievable occurrances of 9-11-01, the spectre of those towers coming down, ignited the lack of rational and critical thinking that are part-and-parcel of the mind of a generation lacking a disciplined scientific and mathematical education.

have you read Niel Harrit's paper?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13049

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.pdf

iron oxide and elemental aluminium intermixed at the nanoscale that produces molten iron on ignition.

that is exactly thermite.

what was thermite doing at ground zero?

the group of experienced firefighters have never seen what they describe as molten steel, like lava.

what was the lava?

You just can't believe...

because the story is contradicted by the evidence on so many different levels.

because the official story ignores evidence that doesn;t fit.

because NIST have lied on numerous occasions, and produced a fraudulent report.

are you sure you have it right as to who lacks critical thinking??

[MID]

Lord...

It simply never ends...

Edited September 14, 2011 by MID

[Scott G]

"Pilots for 9-11 Truth?"

Cut me (a pilot with engineering background) a break. What sort of clowns are going to state that the maneuvers of AA77 in the vicinity of the Pentagon were dangerous and too difficult, when they weren't either and aren't the mark of anyone highly skilled?

I'm telling you right now that if those pilots couldn't take a 757 in a 10-20 degree bank at 300 KTS and do a 360 in a descent,never exceeding +/- 0.2 g then I wouldn't be caught alive in one of their airplanes!

I've responded to your post here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=213916&st=15&p=4055761entry4055761

[Little Fish]

Lord...

It simply never ends...

so why do you insult those that have looked at the evidence, on a professional level, an intellectual level and a psychological level, yet you are not capable of articulating a sentence in reponse to the evidence. on other occasions I have queried your pronouncements other posters have bailed you out.

do you have an explanation for the lava?

what about the thermite that was found?

it is the official story that lacks credibilty.

[Scott G]

Lord...

It simply never ends...

Well, you're entitled to your beliefs, ofcourse. I personally believe that it will end when enough official story believers deign to take a serious look at the evidence that the OS is full of holes.

[Stundie]

I think that this entire 9-11 nonsense is simply the result of a generation of Americans who were among those in the post 1950s-1960s era, who were unfortunate victims of the profound decline in education that occurred subsequently.

Well that can't be true because 9/11 conspiracies are believed by people all over the world and by a large spectrum of the American demographic.

The unbelievable occurrances of 9-11-01, the spectre of those towers coming down, ignited the lack of rational and critical thinking that are part-and-parcel of the mind of a generation lacking a disciplined scientific and mathematical education.

I can partially agree with that, look at some of the irrational and poorly thought out ways that western nations have impacted the middle east.

You just can't believe what you saw happen(if you even did see it happen)that day. It was inconceivable to so many people.

That's the thing, I believed that the planes and fire brought down the buildings when I saw it. I thought it was conceivable, I didn't critically evaluate it or anything, I just except it without question. It wasn't til after the shock and awe wore off that I soon thought about it rationally and wondered if it was a magic trick. Just cause a plane hits a building, doesn't automatically mean it comes crashing down does it?

Thus, I think that sparked the almost immediate CT, which has taken many forms, from controlled demolition, to a false flag operation or inside job.

I think the fact the official story ignores so much evidence and doesn't paint a full picture of the events surrounding and leading up to it. The official story leaves so many questions unanswered, that it leaves people to try and work out those answers for themselves.

I think that was the spark.

A poor investigation that left as many questions unanswered than it answered.

They're all idiocies, and all somewhat understandable, ignoring as they do, a competent professional investigation.

This is interesting.... and I have 2 questions?

1, How do you propose that individual or groups of people do a competent investigation, when they don't have access to the all the evidence, data, measurements, limited time and budgets that the official investigator had.

2, Do you consider the 9/11 Commission and the NIST Reports a competent investigation, considering the budget for these investigations was smaller than the budgets on Clintons activities and the space shuttle crash investigations, and that some of the commission members are critical of the reports?

The problem is that so-called professional people of this geeration will defy the majority and join the uneducated in their silliness sometimes. We all hear about this architech and that engineer who thinks something's fishy. That's fine, of course, but none of these people have ever been vetted, nor have they provided anything of substance to prove their contentions. I would love to see some real, corroborated studies done by real professionals that show definitive proof that a CD was involved in anything on 9-11.

So you think that it's fine that these educated people think something is fishy, but none of them have been vetted? How do you want them vetted exactly? Did the people who wrote the commission and NIST reports get vetted by this litmus test you have created?

If you want to see some real studies as you claim, then why not support a new investigation?

You want to believe? OK, then believe. But I won't waste my time trying to make you prove yourselves. because you can't.

Why would someone want to believe their government would do this? It's a horrible thought! I certainly don't want to believe it and would be much happier if it wasn't true.

However, there is plenty of evidence which points to the possibility of a cover up/conspiracy whether they let it happen or made it happen, but I won't waste any more of your time trying to prove it to you because it appears you want to argue what you believe rather than what the evidence these experts have found might suggest.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Stundie

[MID]

Well, you're entitled to your beliefs, ofcourse. I personally believe that it will end when enough official story believers deign to take a serious look at the evidence that the OS is full of holes.

Can't wait for that!

[Little Fish]

Can't wait for that!

was it the passport coming out of the fireball that convinced you?

[Scott G]

was it the passport coming out of the fireball that convinced you?

Laugh :-)

[MID]

That's the thing, I believed that the planes and fire brought down the buildings when I saw it. I thought it was conceivable,

Really?

When you saw it? Now I don't believe that. Are you telling me that on 9-11-01 you thought those building could come down, like I did, when I actually watched it happen???

I have been ridiculed for saying that countless times, despite the fact that it was completely plausible noting the damage, and realizing the energy of those impacts, and I turned out to be tragically, horribly right...and you're essentially saying the same thing?

I didn't critically evaluate it or anything, I just except it without question.

Oh, OK. Well, I did critically evaluate, so you can't be agreeing with me...

It wasn't til after the shock and awe wore off that I soon thought about it rationally and wondered if it was a magic trick.

OK, I'm just going to say it:

What you're saying here is not that you thought about it rationally, but rather that you thought about it emotionally and irrationally. It was unbelieveable to you and so, there has to be something else but what we clearly saw involved.

Just cause a plane hits a building, doesn't automatically mean it comes crashing down does it?

No, it doesn't. It did on 9-11. How many case studies have you read (and understood) where 250,000 pound aircraft traveling at roughly 450-500 KTS, and loaded with in excess of 20,000 gallons of jet fuel struck a building...OR ANYTHING?!?!

If you say "none," at least I'll consider you honest, as no one else has.

I think the fact the official story ignores so much evidence and doesn't paint a full picture of the events surrounding and leading up to it. The official story leaves so many questions unanswered, that it leaves people to try and work out those answers for themselves.

I know this is what you think. I have maintained that working out answers that have already been given and which you don't understand requires educating oneself in the particulars of those solutions arrived at. It doesn't involve creating alternative realities to the one that actually occurred.

This is interesting.... and I have 2 questions?

1, How do you propose that individual or groups of people do a competent investigation, when they don't have access to the all the evidence, data, measurements, limited time and budgets that the official investigator had.

I don't propose it at all.

What I porose is educating ones self in the sciences and technologies involved, or at least admitting that such a course of study is daunting and too time consuming, and ceasing the nonsense CT theorizing, because that is far too much energy to expend, while the opportunity for learning goes right out the window.

Why would someone want to believe their government would do this? It's a horrible thought! I certainly don't want to believe it and would be much happier if it wasn't true

I think you can be happy, although I realize that most people who support your type of thinking decidedly aren't.

.

However, there is plenty of evidence which points to the possibility of a cover up/conspiracy whether they let it happen or made it happen, but I won't waste any more of your time trying to prove it to you because it appears you want to argue what you believe rather than what the evidence these experts have found might suggest.

I comment on what I know and understand.

I don't believe anything.

You don't understand that, I fully realize, and you don't have to prove anything to me. You can't

Thus, I'm not interested.

I would be interested if you came back after 5 years of archetectural engineeering school, and years of expwerience in high rise structures and showed me something that would make me think about the possibility of this conspiracy.

But that's not gonna happen here.

See ya.

[MID]

was it the passport coming out of the fireball that convinced you?

Actually, it was the paper shreds, other completely intact pieces from inside the aircraft, the fingers, the limbs, the blood in the street, the bone fragments, the thudding bangs of bodies striking the structure as they dropped 800 feet to a more preferable death than burning. Pieces of airplane scattered for blocks, the toxic pulverized cloud filled with vaporized lead and mercury, etc....

That was sort of convincing, genius. I guess you wouldn't know unless you were there.

You want to say something valuable?

Nah, forget it.

Edited September 15, 2011 by MID

[Little Fish]

I would be interested if you came back after 5 years of archetectural engineeering school, and years of expwerience in high rise structures

are you sure that's the truth? what about those that have signed the petition? they have those qualifications and experience.

what about the Torronto hearings? did you take a look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNPeMvsSbl4&feature=related

and showed me something that would make me think about the possibility of this conspiracy

what about the thermite was found?

what was thermite doing in the wtc?

why isn't that something to think about?

[booNyzarC]

are you sure that's the truth? what about those that have signed the petition? they have those qualifications and experience.

what about the Torronto hearings? did you take a look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNPeMvsSbl4&feature=related

what about the thermite was found?

what was thermite doing in the wtc?

why isn't that something to think about?

I'll watch the vid at some point, probably not tonight though.

But thermite? You really think that thermite played a role? I'd be curious about your thoughts on this link I found after a quick and easy Google search of "thermite debunked"... Is this site valid? Or is it maybe part of the conspiracy?

Probably full of disinformation huh?

[booNyzarC]

Lord...

It simply never ends...

No MID, it probably won't ever end. There will always be people willing to believe nonsense. There will always be people who want to think that the "gumment" is out to do evil things at the expense of the little people.

But hey, look at the bright side.

Not everyone is deluded by this crap.