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Scott G

The 9/11 Planes and the Pentagon attack

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Skyeagle, we have had (and no doubt will continue to have) differences on some topics :alien:^_^ , but I have to heartily applaud your tenacity, patience, accuracy and logic here.

You are fighting the good, and correct, fight. :yes:

it is a logical fallacy to suggest that what one person says is what a group of people are saying, does that even need explaining?

I once saw a "debunker" claim that building 6 was the top of tower 1 thus proving bazant's crush down hypothesis.

so the anti-truth movement don't know the difference between building 6 and building 1?

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My mistake. I worded my thought incorrectly.

Babe Ruth, are you under the impression that the official explanation for the hole is that it was made by the fuselage?

Yessir, I am under the impression that it was made by Flight 77, and that it is refered to as an "exit" hole, though I can see that not much exited there.

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So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall.

Common sense would suggest that the big variable is the construction of the various walls.

How different are the walls at the Pentagon from the wall shown in the business jet photo?

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So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall.

So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle?

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So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall.

Common sense would suggest that the big variable is the construction of the various walls.

How different are the walls at the Pentagon from the wall shown in the business jet photo?

A difference of only a few inches, and when the nose of the small business jet penetrated the building, it was slowing down, unlike the larger B-757, which was screaming at full power as it slammed into the Pentagon.

Lets' compare the concrete wall that was struck by the F-4 in a test with the wall of the Pentagon that was struck by a B-757 for real, and note the differences in thickness between the two walls and remember, the F-4 is much smaller and lighter than a B-757.

f4-1.jpg

exit2.jpg

As you can see, the wall of the Pentagon is nowhere near the thickness of the concrete wall that was struck by the F-4.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Skyeagle, we have had (and no doubt will continue to have) differences on some topics :alien:^_^ , but I have to heartily applaud your tenacity, patience, accuracy and logic here.

You are fighting the good, and correct, fight. :yes:

Thanks!!:tu:

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So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle?

1 plane went through, broke wall, other plane didn't, broke plane. Any one got examples of in between?

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So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle?

I suspect that it does fall somewhere in the middle, Q. I think it was Sky that posted the approximate dimensions and composition of the Pentagon walls. I suppose a brilliant mathematician could construct a formula that might apply and give a good answer, but that is not in my skill set.

Back to common sense, and to the supposed exit hole, it was either the second or third "ring", and thus, assuming the rings were of identical construction, and that each ring had 2 walls, we are looking at about 6 times the thickness shown in the photo, no?

Thinking today, the picture of the business jet is, I think, a Challenger that went off the runway at Teterboro a few years back.

So if we could get some particulars, we might be able to approximate the cumulative thickness of concrete walls that 77 is supposed to have penetrated.

As for me, I still want to see where the engines and MLG entered and exited. I cannot fathom how the frangible nose section could penetrate and exit so cleanly through 2 or 3 rings, while the much stronger engines did not. And good grief, what about the wings?

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Parts of the fuselage, which is evident from the primer

punchout_circle.jpg

Note the thickness of the Pentagon wall vs this wall.

30514789ffcdca7d6.jpg

It seems you are forced into the position that the debris you have circled in red is responsible for that perfect circle exit hole?

If not, what did?

Are you really comfortable with that position?

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I suspect that it does fall somewhere in the middle, Q. I think it was Sky that posted the approximate dimensions and composition of the Pentagon walls. I suppose a brilliant mathematician could construct a formula that might apply and give a good answer, but that is not in my skill set.

Back to common sense, and to the supposed exit hole, it was either the second or third "ring", and thus, assuming the rings were of identical construction, and that each ring had 2 walls, we are looking at about 6 times the thickness shown in the photo, no?

Thinking today, the picture of the business jet is, I think, a Challenger that went off the runway at Teterboro a few years back.

So if we could get some particulars, we might be able to approximate the cumulative thickness of concrete walls that 77 is supposed to have penetrated.

As for me, I still want to see where the engines and MLG entered and exited. I cannot fathom how the frangible nose section could penetrate and exit so cleanly through 2 or 3 rings, while the much stronger engines did not. And good grief, what about the wings?

The engines were there at the Pentagon.

Damage9.jpg

planeparts-1.jpg

As for what was left of the wings.

2006-08-08-IO-Article-pic-1.jpg

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He might not like to give direct answers to direct questions, but Sky has a fantastic collection of photos! :rolleyes:

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It seems you are forced into the position that the debris you have circled in red is responsible for that perfect circle exit hole?

If not, what did?

The parts you see are from the fuselage of the B-757, most of which was still inside the Pentagon and what you see is the end-result from the impact.

That green primer you see on the parts was used on aircraft, but the Air Force no longer uses that green primer because of health issues. There are photos you have never seen before and in one photo, I saw low-density honeycomb core that are used on wing panels.

Are you really comfortable with that position?

Absolutely!!

Edited by skyeagle409

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Who gives a hoot about what primer the USAF uses?

So a few pieces of aluminum made a perfectly round hole in that brick wall, making soot in the process? :no:

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Who gives a hoot about what primer the USAF uses?

Apparently, you do not know the significance of zince chromate appearing on those aircraft parts found at the Pentagon. Those parts are from a B-757.

So a few pieces of aluminum made a perfectly round hole in that brick wall, making soot in the process? :no:

Of course!! The pieces you see are just part of the airframe that smashed into the wall from inside the Pentagon, most of whch are still inside.

Did you really think that workers were going to take their time and meticulously cut a circle through the wall from inside the Pentagon that is filled iwth smoke from a raging fire?

Edited by skyeagle409

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Sky

I worked in aircraft production long enough to know that Boeing is not the only company that uses zinc chromate primer.

Are you really making the claim that Boeing is the only one to use primer??? :wacko:

As for the exit hole, no I don't think workers meticulously cut the hole, I suspect that explosives of some sort were used, thus the sooty residue seen in your picture.

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Sky

I worked in aircraft production long enough to know that Boeing is not the only company that uses zinc chromate primer.

I never said that the Boeing company was the only company that used that primer, because I said that the Air Force no longer uses that primer due to health issues.

As for the exit hole, no I don't think workers meticulously cut the hole, I suspect that explosives of some sort were used, thus the sooty residue seen in your picture.

You have to remember that the Pentagon was on fire at that time and the soot you see in the photo was not indicative of an explosion.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I have been actively involved in aviation over the years and have led the Tuskegee Airmen chapter at Travis AFB, which includes air force officers and enlisted personnel, air force civilians, and military retirees, and some members of my chapter are original Tuskegee Airmen, one of whom flew our first POW's out of North Vietnam on the 'Hanoi Taxi," and was a crewmember on the aircraft that flew the Apollo 14 astronauts back to Houston after their moon flight. That was Colonel James C. Warren, and we still fly together.

Lt. Colonel James Warren, was the person who nominated me for president of the Lee A. Archer, Jr. chapter, Travis AFB, where afterward, its members voted me in as president, a position I held until I took on a government contract in Corpus Christi, TX.

Lt. Colonel James Warren is also the honorary commander of the 477th Fighter Group that flies the F-22 Raptor, which was his unit during World War II.

090806-F-3208M-005.jpg

Lt. Colonel James Warren and F-22 pilots of the 477th Fighter Group

In addition, I once gave a lecture on the hazards of mountain flying to the Experimental Aircraft Association, (EAA) in Vacaville, CA. a few years ago. Look for the Tuskegee Airmen movie; "Red Tails," which is a George Lucas film and due for release on Januarty 20, 2012.

$(KGrHqIOKpcE5k7N7jBDBOgrOuQdPw~~60_1.JPG?set_id=880000500F

Sky:

Please give a salute to the Colonel when you see him.

It must be something to fly with a genuine American hero and aviation pioneer!

Did you get to see the movie?

It was ffantastic!

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Sky:

Please give a salute to the Colonel when you see him.

It must be something to fly with a genuine American hero and aviation pioneer!

Did you get to see the movie?

It was ffantastic!

I will see Colonel Warren tomorrow and pass on your salute to him. I saw the movie with Colonel Warren and afterward, he spoke to the audience in Fairfield, CA. If you look at the credits at the end of the movie, you will see Colonel Warren's name. He assisted George Lucas the making of the movie.

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Good to See the Col.doing well Sky ! We just got back from D.C on a trip of a week and saw Lots of Real Proof of 9/11 in the museums Like the United Airlines pcs,and AA parts. quite extreem to see what actual proof there is ! WHen you go there dont Miss the Newseum Really a great Museum a must see !

Cheer`sjustDONTEATUS :tu: on your Six.

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I will see Colonel Warren tomorrow and pass on your salute to him. I saw the movie with Colonel Warren and afterward, he spoke to the audience in Fairfield, CA. If you look at the credits at the end of the movie, you will see Colonel Warren's name. He assisted George Lucas the making of the movie.

Roger that...and thank you, Sir!

:tu: :tu:

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http://www.redicecre.../RIR-121014.php

Richard Grove - Hour 1 - 9/11 Insider Trading Whistleblower & Voluntary Servitude

October 14, 2012

===================

Mark H. Gaffney - Hour 1 - Black 9/11: Money, Motive and Technology

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/10/RIR-121014.php

Edited by regeneratia

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Man ! can you say Round peg in a Square hole ? THis thread gets stranger by the tick ! :tu:

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Man ! can you say Round peg in a Square hole ? THis thread gets stranger by the tick ! :tu:

Or...a triangular peg in a round hole, D!

Yep, I see what you're sayin!

:no::td::cry::td:

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You know what they say about all this Peg problem`s ?

GET a Bigger HAMMER ! :tu:

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