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Why the Anti-Science Creationist Movement Is


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There is a very vocal minority that keep insisting on teaching creationism, but they are constantly being shot down.

As well they should be. It's tantamount to teaching that the earth is flat.

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As well they should be. It's tantamount to teaching that the earth is flat.

That is why I'm not sure what all the ranting and raving is about. Every time they try to have it put on the curriculum it gets outvoted. I haven't been to public school since the seventies and even then creationism wasn't taught. If a student had a question about how God fit into evolution the teacher had to tell them they weren't allowed to discuss it. They would've been fired for discussing God...and I grew up in Georgia.

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That is why I'm not sure what all the ranting and raving is about. Every time they try to have it put on the curriculum it gets outvoted. I haven't been to public school since the seventies and even then creationism wasn't taught. If a student had a question about how God fit into evolution the teacher had to tell them they weren't allowed to discuss it. They would've been fired for discussing God...and I grew up in Georgia.

It shouldn't even be tried to put on a science curriculum. That's the problem.Too few people understand what science is and isn't.

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I don't think you noticed that Beckys_Mom is from Ireland. She also sends Becky to a Christian school.

Public schools in the US don't teach creationism in lieu of evolution. Even the Christian schools, that I am aware of, teach evolution. There is a very vocal minority that keep insisting on teaching creationism, but they are constantly being shot down.

Hi Michelle,

I know Beckys'mom is from Ireland and although the discussion is really about the influence of this vocal minority in the USA, some religious schools and academy schools in the Uk are now giving undue influence to religous dogma instead of the factual science. If memory serves Dawkins explored it in one of his documentaries last year.

I seem to remember it was titled 'Faith School Menace'.

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Hi Michelle,

I know Beckys'mom is from Ireland and although the discussion is really about the influence of this vocal minority in the USA, some religious schools and academy schools in the Uk are now giving undue influence to religous dogma instead of the factual science. If memory serves Dawkins explored it in one of his documentaries last year.

I seem to remember it was titled 'Faith School Menace'.

Sorry if I misunderstood. :)

I've heard that more schools in the UK are succumbing to religion lately and it surprises me. I was under the impression, for many years, they were moving farther away from it and now they seem to be backpedaling. I don't entirely trust what I hear in the news though. :P

I haven't heard of that documentary, but I'm sure it would be interesting.

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That is why I'm not sure what all the ranting and raving is about. Every time they try to have it put on the curriculum it gets outvoted. I haven't been to public school since the seventies and even then creationism wasn't taught. If a student had a question about how God fit into evolution the teacher had to tell them they weren't allowed to discuss it. They would've been fired for discussing God...and I grew up in Georgia.

Hmmm ... that's a weird thing to say. Granted I never taught below the college level, but when I taught bio 101 at community college we were instructed to say that science deals with the natural world and god by convention is not part of the natural world so is outside of what science deals with or something along those lines, if someone asked. I actually think I might have gotten fired for saying what your teachers said.

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Everything has a purpose in life. There's always something to get out of everything.

I've "discussed" with some of these people. I was accused to be a satanist that wants to prove God dosen't exist. They also said the CERN and it's scientists were on a mission to scientifically prove God dosen't exists etc. etc. bla bla. Never heard something so funny and irritating at the same time. :lol:

But you know, deeply inside of me I just find this sad. Why so much hate over science? These people may not realise that science made everything they use daily.

I don't think science can't ever prove or disprove the existence of a "creator" (at least so far). Some scientists are atheists but some of them are theists. They just don't all brag about it for obvious reasons. The whole question of connection between the mind, consciousness and the physical universe in often brought up by quantum physicists.

I think some deep creationists could simply be scared that some of their beleifs were proven wrong by science (well, already has at some point). Perhaps because they know deeply that science is right. They can't avoid it and they need it. But then deniying it? How can you ever live that way? My brain would fry up.

Edited by JayMark
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Everything has a purpose in life. There's always something to get out of everything.

I've "discussed" with some of these people. I was accused to be a satanist that wants to prove God dosen't exist. They also said the CERN and it's scientists were on a mission to scientifically prove God dosen't exists etc. etc. bla bla. Never heard something so funny and irritating at the same time. :lol:

But you know, deeply inside of me I just find this sad. Why so much hate over science? These people may not realise that science made everything they use daily.

I don't think science can't ever prove or disprove the existence of a "creator" (at least so far). Some scientists are atheists but some of them are theists. They just don't all brag about it for obvious reasons. The whole question of connection between the mind, consciousness and the physical universe in often brought up by quantum physicists.

I think some deep creationists could simply be scared that some of their beleifs were proven wrong by science (well, already has at some point). Perhaps because they know deeply that science is right. They can't avoid it and they need it. But then deniying it? How can you ever live that way? My brain would fry up.

A creationist called me a 'mindless meat putppet of Satan' for pointing out the evolution is a proven fact.

The thing I've noticed is that as the 'creationist arguments' have now all been comprehensively deconstructed and discredited thier attitude has changed to something almost akin to hysteria.

They don't want to debate, because all the arguments are now so well known that the answers are always there clearly available for all to see, so they instantly go on the attack instead and often as you've seen, rapidly start claiming conspiracies and Satanic influence. Or they try and claim that atheism and a belief in science is a Religion in itself! LOL, what a load! Like 'Not collecting coins' is a hobby, and 'Not Smoking' is a vice!

It discredits religion in general and reflects on the vast majority of people of faith including many of the major faiths/churches who accept science and evolution without problem.

If even the Catholic Church and The Church of England can accept that Evolution is proven fact and work it into their interpretation of scripture, you have to wonder if thos few fundamentalists in the USA (mostly, but elsewhere too) aren't simply fighting the wrong battle and damaging the cause of religion in general?

Edited by Atlantia
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Sorry if I misunderstood. :)

I've heard that more schools in the UK are succumbing to religion lately and it surprises me. I was under the impression, for many years, they were moving farther away from it and now they seem to be backpedaling. I don't entirely trust what I hear in the news though. :P

I haven't heard of that documentary, but I'm sure it would be interesting.

Not at all Michelle.

It's not a big issue in the UK because it's still confined to some extremist faith based schools. Not like in the USA where the money exists to try and push it on the mainstream.

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Hmmm ... that's a weird thing to say. Granted I never taught below the college level, but when I taught bio 101 at community college we were instructed to say that science deals with the natural world and god by convention is not part of the natural world so is outside of what science deals with or something along those lines, if someone asked. I actually think I might have gotten fired for saying what your teachers said.

Maybe I wasn't clear...I wasn't quoting anyone, I was giving the gist of the situation. Each teacher had their own unique way of expressing it, usually ending in "That is something you will have to speak to your parents or clergy about." They didn't openly say in class that they would be fired. I was given this information by a teacher in a private conversation after class.

Edited by Michelle
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  • 4 weeks later...

Regarding the phrase "anti-science": can we say that our knowledge about science is 100% accurate? Can we say that we know all that can ever be known? Have we learned all that is learnable? (Spell-check says 'learnable' is not a word, but you know what I mean).

Science once thought leeching was a good way to rid humans of disease.

Even though science doesn't have a method for observing/analyzing the spiritual dimension, does the lack of a method imply the lack of the spiritual dimension? Isn't it possible that science just hasn't progressed to that point yet?

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Regarding the phrase "anti-science": can we say that our knowledge about science is 100% accurate? Can we say that we know all that can ever be known? Have we learned all that is learnable?

Science, of course, can't anwser everything. But beleifs can't prove anything either.

Science once thought leeching was a good way to rid humans of disease.

Humans did. Not science.

Even though science doesn't have a method for observing/analyzing the spiritual dimension, does the lack of a method imply the lack of the spiritual dimension? Isn't it possible that science just hasn't progressed to that point yet?

Some scientists do have spiritual beleifs even considering the lack of matter to "study" it. They rarely talk about it for evident reasons. But sure thing is that for instance some of them think that perhaps our consciousness could be part physical and part non-physical. Just a thought.

I also have very deep spiritual beleifs that are beyond actual science. But I concur that they are only beleifs. If science proves me wrong one day, I'll accept it. Because my beleifs are based on a unification of science and spirituality.

Peace.

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Regarding the phrase "anti-science": can we say that our knowledge about science is 100% accurate? Can we say that we know all that can ever be known? Have we learned all that is learnable? (Spell-check says 'learnable' is not a word, but you know what I mean).

No we can't say that we know everything. That doesn't mean however, we disregard what we do know.

Science once thought leeching was a good way to rid humans of disease.

I beg to differ that science ever claimed this. In fact, I think it was human beliefs of how disease occurred (bad humors and all) that led to the practice. It was when we actually got around to doing science that we found that the belief was incorrect.

Thankfully there were and are still people who are willing to assimilate new information that science offers and use that in place of unfounded beliefs.....

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can we say that our knowledge about science is 100% accurate?

Yes we can because science is a tool mankind created to learn about the world. We ought to have 100% knowledge about something we invented!

Edited by Cybele
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Yes we can because science is a tool mankind created to learn about the world. We ought to have 100% knowledge about something we invented!

First off they poorly worded that...They clearly meant "can we know that our theories in science are 100% accurate?"

Also I would argue that many scientists do not understand science...even though man created it...

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Also I would argue that many scientists do not understand science...even though man created it...

By this would you mean the scientific method or scientific theories? I meant the former. Clearly no scientist understands everything about every scientific theory (especially those outside their field of expertise), nor should they.

Edited by Cybele
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