Realistic Zombie Survival

[MstrMsn]

This thread is to discuss many of the misconceptions and truths about surviving the aftermath of an initial Zombie outbreak.

We've all seen many, if not all of the Zombie movies out there. Romero's movies, the Resident Evil movies, etc. We've all read many of the Zombie threads on here, as well as other places. And the one thing that many people seem to be overlooking that is found in these movies is the most basic part of any survival plan.... Survival.

Many threads talk about going to, say, a farm. Fortifying it, and growing your own food, and keeping some animals. While it is a very good idea, it's based on the premise that there will be someone that knows about farming (or even someone that knows how to tend to a vegetable garden... on a larger scale). Also based on the assumption that the ground will be able to grow anything, or that there will be water to irrigate any crops (let alone, for drinking). They also don't take into consideration elements that are found in other post Apocolyptic movies... bad guys (or as I call them, land pirates).

While this is generally a good idea, it has too many unknown variables.

Next, we have threads that talk about going to the mountains. With this, we run into a supply issue. You can only take so much with you, that doesn't slow you down.

Others feel best thing to do, IF you can safely do so, is to get out of, or away from, major cities. Even if it means going to a suburb 20 miles away. The reason for this, less populated, less zombies. Well, this is based on the notion that that's true, and that zombies don't migrate to find food. Plus, if you were to find a suitable house, will you be certain that there isn't anyone already in it? Not everyone will be inviting to strangers, even if the world is ending. Plus, you have to consider supply issues. Will you be able to do a supply run? Will the nearest stores have already been looted of everything needed to keep you alive?

Again, good idea, but... too many unknown variables.

Let's talk about weapons.

Many people belive that melee weapons are a far better choice than firearms, and many feel the opposite is true. So, we break down the pros and cons of each. We'll start with firearms...

Pros:

1, medium to long range weapons

2, with proficiency, you'd be able to defend yourself from multiple enemies (both zombies AND land pirates), using very little ammo, and very little to no physical exertion.

Let's talk about this for a monet before moving on. Firearms proficiency isn't something you develope over a period of days, it can take weeks, even months to become a very good shot. Unless you are opposed to shooting for any reason, I suggest you go to a range that gives instructions, rent a handgun and rifle, and learn how to shoot them. Also, continue shooting, asking for help from the intructors as needed.

3, Ammo isn't as limited a resource as others may claim, you just have to know where to look (unless you know how to reload, and know where to get the needed supplies).

Cons:

1, to be effective, you must have a level of proficiency with them. So, before the Zombies even get here, you should learn how to shoot properly and well. I know a lot of people can't really justify spending the money on range time, a firearm and instructor, so it can be difficult. Easiest solution: find a friend or relative that shoots, and ask to go with them.

2, the "jam"... while it is true that firearms CAN jam, it is not an absolute that they WILL. There are many simple and easy measures to ensure this does not happen. First and foremost is something every member of the military knows: clean your firearms. This can be done daily, and it doesn't have to be that detailed. Just making sure that the carbon is removed from certain areas, and they are properly lubed will ensure that a jam doesn't happen. Next issue that causes jamming... the wrong ammunition. Take the .45 caliber. Many people seem to think that's the optimum choice, it's not bad, it's not good... it just depends on the shooter's likes. Now, ammo with the .45... most 1911s, and other semi-autos shoot .45 ACP. There are, however, some that shoot .45 Super. Those that are chambered for .45 Super, can also shoot .45 ACP, however, those that are chambered for .45ACP (also known as .45 auto) can't shoot .45 Super. Then, there is also .45 Colt. This is for .45 cal revolvers, only. This list can go on and on, so if you have any questions about a certain caliber you like, send me a PM.

3, ammo capacity... most handguns are sold with 10 round magazines (mags), and rifle mags typically vary in capacity, depending on the rifle itself (please, don't use the word "clip", unless you are talking about the M1, as they are not, nor have ever been called clips... only in movies..). Even if you have high capacity (hi-cap) mags, you still can only hold so many. Which means that you need to change mags quickly. Under stress, if you don't have the proficiency, you might not be able to swap mags before you are made into a snack.

Time for Melee

Pros:

1, ease of access.. pretty much anything can be used as a melee weapon (to include that rilfe that just ran out of ammo). All you need is a good imagination and the right supplies and you can make yourself plenty of weapons at a very low cost (prior to the outbreak).

2, while they do require some cleaning, it's a very simply, cleaning it with bleach or amonia (never use them at the same time). Though, if you have a bladed weapon as a melee, you need to sharpen if every so often, the frequency depends on the useage.

3, very little training is needed, just swing

Cons:

1, this is the most important: YOU EXERT MORE PHYSICAL ENERGY THAN YOU SHOULD HAVE TO!!!! That said, keep in mind, that you may have to run away from an area, and if you just bashed 10 zombies, you may not be able to make it far.

2, it is a very close range weapon... one slip and you can be lunch

3, Swords and machettes: you do need a level of proficiency with these. Not saying you need to know how to sword fight, but you do need to know some basics. Grip, stances, strikes and blocks. Grip: you need to know how to hold it, so you don't swing, miss, and cut into your leg. I've seen it, it's ugly. Stances: you need to know how to stand while striking, so that if you do miss, agin.. so you don't cut into your leg. Strikes (more than blocks), same reason, not cutting into your leg. This is for both swords and machettes.

4, depending on the type of zombie, any fluids left inside could possibly hold a contagion that, when coming in contact with you (eyes, mouth, open cut, heck.. even skin - depends on how it spreads), melee weapons will cause splatter, and if not wearing proper protective gear, you risk infecting yourself and others.

Summary of which weapons to use: Very simple, both!

I can go on and on, but I'll stop it with this passing wisdom:

There are too many unknown variables to come up with an all encompassing plan, and the key is to survive. That means avoid the zombies every chance you get, and only fight when there is no choice (or, you really want to stay in a really nice mansion... just make sure you don't accidentally kill Bill Murray).

All comments are welcome, and will be responded to in time. If for some reason, you want something responded to and I haven't been online in a bit, send me a PM.

Also, one of the mods suggested I post here, if there is a more appropriate place for this, by all means, move it. And thank you.

-Erik

[maca02]

Erm......you do Know that zombies arent actually real dont you ?.

Edited September 22, 2011 by maca02

[MstrMsn]

Erm......you do Know that zombies arent actually real dont you ?.

Hmmm... you haven't met the people I work with.

But yes, I do know this.

[H.H. Holmes]

You will run into the same problem with ammo availability as you would with food and supplies availability.

Who is to say that every gun store nearby isn't already ransacked of all ammo and weaponry? Raiding a local gun store would be one of my top priorities in case of an attack. Really, conserving ammo as much as possible is the best way to deal with the problem. Constructing barricades or other obstacles to keep the undead or infected out would take precedent over the amount of ammo at hand, in my opinion.

[Habitat]

Zombie Survival Procedure (for those in fear of a zombie attack):

1. Place a brown-paper over your head. Breathe in and out steadily.

2. When feeler calmer, make a nice cup of tea.

3. Take an aspirin, and have a good lie down.

Repeat procedure as required.

[MstrMsn]

You will run into the same problem with ammo availability as you would with food and supplies availability.

Who is to say that every gun store nearby isn't already ransacked of all ammo and weaponry? Raiding a local gun store would be one of my top priorities in case of an attack. Really, conserving ammo as much as possible is the best way to deal with the problem. Constructing barricades or other obstacles to keep the undead or infected out would take precedent over the amount of ammo at hand, in my opinion.

That's just it. I said you just have to know where to look. Everyone always automatically jumps to gun stores, or other retail places that also sell guns. People often overlook police stations (which they should try to get to, anyway, there might be someone there that can help them).

You also have dead bodies and weapons on the ground. Just an FYI.

But yes, fortifying a location, and making sure you have enough supplies so that you don't need to make supply runs ever week is a top priority. But, you also need the ability to defend yourself, too. Can't build barricades and obstacles if you keep having to deal with Zombies.

That's also why location is essential.

[MstrMsn]

Zombie Survival Procedure (for those in fear of a zombie attack):

1. Place a brown-paper over your head. Breathe in and out steadily.

2. When feeler calmer, make a nice cup of tea.

3. Take an aspirin, and have a good lie down.

Repeat procedure as required.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of stop doing shrooms, but that might work.

I started this thread to point out the falacies of "plans" that others have posted. Also, if you saw my previous comment, you would have known that I don't really think we'll be attacked by zombies.

[MstrMsn]

Using my original post, these are things that need to be considered for ANY survival plan.

You will need weapons.

You will need food, water and other supplies.

You will need a suitable living area, that is fortified.

You will need people that know how to do things that you don't.

Above all, you need to understand that there is not one all eccompassing survival plan. Just look in the SAS and US Military's survival guides, and you will see that. That's why they have jungle survival, forrest (woodland) survival, desert and water survival. Because the experts that wrote these knew that not every situation requires (nor can use) the same tactics.

[omerta]

Hold up.

Do land-pirates exist?

If so, how do I join?

[MstrMsn]

Hold up.

Do land-pirates exist?

If so, how do I join?

Get a few criminals, a few scary looking off road vehicles, and weapons. Next, go around and kill everyone on the highway, and steal their stuff. Then, move into neighborhoods, and do the same thing.

Basically, go watch the Mad Max movies.

(Not really telling you to do this, but you asked how).

[Mike G]

Did you by any chance ever read World War Z?

I thought it was terrible.

[MstrMsn]

Did you by any chance ever read World War Z?

I thought it was terrible.

I did read it. I thought it was ok, but not as good as other people were making it out to be. If it was more story form, and less "personal" recounts, it could have been better.

[Mike G]

I did read it. I thought it was ok, but not as good as other people were making it out to be. If it was more story form, and less "personal" recounts, it could have been better.

Agreed. I don't get the hype over it either. A lot of the recounts were corny and poorly written.

[H.H. Holmes]

There are too many variable, especially when it comes to the type of zombie. To construct any successful battle plan, you have to know your enemy, both their strengths and weaknesses. We need a more detailed scenario to really have enough information to write up a more detailed strategy.

[MstrMsn]

There are too many variable, especially when it comes to the type of zombie. To construct any successful battle plan, you have to know your enemy, both their strengths and weaknesses. We need a more detailed scenario to really have enough information to write up a more detailed strategy.

Mr. Holmes, that is exactly my point.

Sure, you can have a generic plan. One that covers many of the disaster scenerios out there. But, for a truly effect plan, there can be only 1 unknown variable that is allowed - when.

One of the way the US Military comes up with specific battle plans, is by having a generic plan and then adding to it when all if the intel they'll be able to get comes in, and then fine tuning it. Unfortunately, that really won't work for zombies.

Plus, having a plan that covers all aspects of what is "known" about zombies isn't going to help. What we know about them comes from movies, games and books (fiction books, at that). So, with what we know, having a plan that covers this will be too extensive. Not to mention survival kits. You'll more than likely end up with things that you don't need, and be missing items you do need. And by the time we have all the answers, it will be too late to get the stuff we need.

Basically, when (more like "if") the Zombies get here, most of this world will be screwed.

[sam12six]

I've always had this philosophy with regards to the major, major disaster scenarios:

If 99% of the Earth's population wants to eat you, if a nuke detonates close to you, if the government turns its entire weight to exterminating you - you're dead. Yes, theoretically you could live through freakish good luck, but there's no way to be prepared enough to actually fight your way to survival.

Don't get me wrong. Skills and supplies will increase your miniscule, tiny, microscopic odds of survival, so they're good things to learn and amass.

Unless you have the money to create a military level fortress with guards, stockpiled food, weapons, and fuel (including the ability to manufacture or farm more of these things), there's no long term surviving based on your own preparedness.

In the case of zombies, think about how many people you see on a busy sidewalk (about a thousand times what they show in movies). Imagine all those people rushing you with the intent to eat you - one scratch and you're as good as dead. I don't care what kind of gun you're carrying or how good you are with it, there's no fighting your way out of that unscathed (unless you were visiting a museum and jack a suit of medieval armor or visiting a military base and jack a tank - but that's that luck thing again).

[asc.rudeboy]

save the .45s and other high caliber rounds for the land pirates in a zombie apocalypse i believe the .22 caliber would be king.small enough to carry 1000s of rounds easily and can be used in rifle and pistol,giving you a wide range of defense. easily handled by even the smallest member of your family/party and is a great for hunting small game..just my .02$ on ammo choice for walking dead.

[Fluffybunny]

I have to agree with .22 for that kind of situation. A .22 headshot is pretty amazing in that it has tons of speed going in, but not enough to pass back out of the skull(usually) and so that small bullet ends up spinning around inside the skull like a marble in a can; doing lots of damage along the way.

A 500 round brick of 22's are cheap and light enough to carry in a cargo pocket. You can easily carry a few thousand rounds of ammo on your person and in your pack, not so for larger calibers.

Cheap rifles like a 10/22 Ruger are incredibly accurate within a 100 meters, easy to clean, dependable, light and easy to get parts for. They are fun to shoot as well, but that is beside the point.

I agree with many of the other posts, there are too many factors for having a plan that you could bet your life on. When it comes to planning for disasters(tornadoes, earthquakes, zombies, plagues, whatever), you can have a lot of things planned out to increase your chance while you are at home, when something happens while you are on vacation, all your planning is not going to help you out.

I do the best I can as a Medic and Firefighter to have enough equipment with me that I can handle most medical issues until help arrives, even in my truck, and in a bag that I take with me on vacation.

My experience as a firefighter and working on an ambulance has taught me really important issues. The biggest thing is that in every city I have ever worked, the EMS system is ALWAYS close to being overwhelmed on any given day; not even on a day that has had a disaster. Hospitals have figured out what the average flow of people are through the doors of the ER on a given day and they staff accordingly so that there is no wasted money on extra staff. That ends up meaning that if there are one or two more car crashes than normal, a hospital will be overwhelmed and shut its doors and divert to the nearest hospital

So considering the fact that on any normal Tuesday the local ER can be overwhelmed by the bad luck of several cars crashing into each other, how well will they all handle a regional disaster with thousands of sick or injured? Not well in my experience.

I tell all of my friends to take a really good first aid and CPR class that is taught by people who have experience; fire stations usually do them for free and have experience in the things they are showing you. If there is some major problem, there could be a delay of several hours in order to get any kind of care, so you need to learn how to take care of yourself and your loved ones until that help can come. That means that if there is an earthquake and Uncle Fred has a hand that gets cut off by falling shelving in the garage, then you should be able to at least keep him alive and not bleeding to death until help can arrive. That is going to be more than just a bandaid from under the sink.

Bad things happen to all of us sooner or later...it may not always be a zombie infestation, but it makes for a good mental exercise to work about all of the issues that come up in life that you may need to take care of while the people that normally help you are overwhelmed or hurt themselves.

[SilverCougar]

jfc...

When can we get a damned zombie section from the forums... just to get the umpteen million "OMFGS ZOMBIES!!" threads that litter then other parts like this one... please?

*grumps*

[MstrMsn]

jfc...

When can we get a damned zombie section from the forums... just to get the umpteen million "OMFGS ZOMBIES!!" threads that litter then other parts like this one... please?

*grumps*

My idea behind this wasn't to have anther zombie thread. The basis for this thread is to show what parts of actual survival scenerios will work, and which won't, and why they will or will not work.

Preparing for ANY survival situation, you will always run into variables, and in ALL situations, you run into only 3 unknown variables. Those being: When will it happen, will I actually be able to survive this, and when will it be over? The reason why I chose Zombies as the basis for this is because (IF it were to ever happen) there are dozens of unknown variables, added on top of the many known variables. Everyone uses various movies/games/books as their base for what they would do in an event like this. I'm trying to show them that limiting themselves that way can be very dangerous.

[MstrMsn]

save the .45s and other high caliber rounds for the land pirates in a zombie apocalypse i believe the .22 caliber would be king.small enough to carry 1000s of rounds easily and can be used in rifle and pistol,giving you a wide range of defense. easily handled by even the smallest member of your family/party and is a great for hunting small game..just my .02$ on ammo choice for walking dead.

I agree for the most part about the .22, with one exception. In order to penetrate the skull (or even chest bones covering the heart, depending on how they can be killed), you would need a more powerful round. You could go through the eye, temple or back of the ear behind the lobe. But that means that you have to be either a very good shot, or very close. That's why I recommend the higher calibers.

[MstrMsn]

I've always had this philosophy with regards to the major, major disaster scenarios:

If 99% of the Earth's population wants to eat you, if a nuke detonates close to you, if the government turns its entire weight to exterminating you - you're dead. Yes, theoretically you could live through freakish good luck, but there's no way to be prepared enough to actually fight your way to survival.

Don't get me wrong. Skills and supplies will increase your miniscule, tiny, microscopic odds of survival, so they're good things to learn and amass.

Unless you have the money to create a military level fortress with guards, stockpiled food, weapons, and fuel (including the ability to manufacture or farm more of these things), there's no long term surviving based on your own preparedness.

In the case of zombies, think about how many people you see on a busy sidewalk (about a thousand times what they show in movies). Imagine all those people rushing you with the intent to eat you - one scratch and you're as good as dead. I don't care what kind of gun you're carrying or how good you are with it, there's no fighting your way out of that unscathed (unless you were visiting a museum and jack a suit of medieval armor or visiting a military base and jack a tank - but that's that luck thing again).

Think of it as it you were hiking with a friend and came across a hungry bear.

[SilverCougar]

My idea behind this wasn't to have anther zombie thread. The basis for this thread is to show what parts of actual survival scenerios will work, and which won't, and why they will or will not work.

Preparing for ANY survival situation, you will always run into variables, and in ALL situations, you run into only 3 unknown variables. Those being: When will it happen, will I actually be able to survive this, and when will it be over? The reason why I chose Zombies as the basis for this is because (IF it were to ever happen) there are dozens of unknown variables, added on top of the many known variables. Everyone uses various movies/games/books as their base for what they would do in an event like this. I'm trying to show them that limiting themselves that way can be very dangerous.

Unless a mass of people were given pufferfish toxin to be placed in the "sleeping death" state and then given the antidote by a voodoun priest/ess to be "brought back to life" as a zombie... I think we'll be safe.

good lords sometimes I hate movie makers so damned much...

[sam12six]

Think of it as it you were hiking with a friend and came across a hungry bear.

Note to self - If surrounded by thousands of zombies, play dead.

Seriously, imagine a thousand tireless humans who feel no pain and no fear. Even if they're the slow zombies, unless you're lucky enough to get to a spot that they physically cannot enter (that also happens to be stocked with a gun and over a thousand rounds of ammo), they're going to catch you. Look at a football game: the running back may be the fastest guy on the field, but 9 times out of 10, he's caught within 10 yards (I know, you might not start out 6 feet from the closest zombie, but then again you might).

The movies do not use logic because they would be an unstoppable force. If the zombification allows rotting flesh to walk around attacking people, why does it need an intact brain? If they defy all the other biological rules (like eating and sleeping), the only reason a headshot kills them is because the movie would suck if they had to literally chop the zombies into little pieces to stop them.

The other problem with choosing fictional creatures as your opponent in your survival scenario is they can have whatever attribute you want them to have. In writing zombie mythology, novelists and screenwriters assign arbitrary weaknesses to zombies because they want the heroes of the story to have a chance. In some movies, zombies can think and talk. If it remember language, it's not a stretch to think it can remember to hop into a truck and drive it through the wall of your hideout.

The variables with fictional creatures are so numerous you may as well say, "What preparations should you make to survive a mystery disaster?"

You'd need to define "zombie" - what they can and can't do and precisely how the infection is spread - before you can even start to think about what preparations would save you.

[MstrMsn]

Note to self - If surrounded by thousands of zombies, play dead.

*SNIP*

The variables with fictional creatures are so numerous you may as well say, "What preparations should you make to survive a mystery disaster?"

You'd need to define "zombie" - what they can and can't do and precisely how the infection is spread - before you can even start to think about what preparations would save you.

No, not play dead. Trip the person closest to you, that way you have better odds.

Can't define "zombie" for the simple fact that they are not definable. What caused them, what they can and can't do, how the infection is spread, and so on, and so on.... those are unknown variables that will remain unknown until the outbreak has been around for a bit. This isn't a situation that can be realistically prepared for; not totally, anyway. What we know about zombies, we know from books and movies. We don't know if something like that ever happened in real life would be like in the movies. Heck, depending on the movie, depends on what kind of zombie as well as their attributes, weaknesses, and how the infection spreads.

With the original Romero zombies, if you got scratched or bit, you didn't turn, unless you died. And a bite or scratch didn't kill you unless the bite was an artery or something and you bled out. It wasn't until the remakes and the cheesy Romero rip offs and newer movies that a scratch or bite would infect and turn you.

Basically, it comes down to many unknown variables that won't get answered until the sh** already hit the fan. So, if you want to prep, prep for the basics that can get you through even the worst case scenario, and keep building upon that (without causing any hardships).