Dramatisation of 1961 alien abduction

[psyche101]

Unless the Queen introduces you. Sounds like "Seeing is Believing" like when we talked about the Coelcanth. But you disagreed with that concept. I guess you mean to obtain concrete evidence you must see it and then believe it.

An introduction would be more than seeing. It would be presenting a living example whom I could question. The Coelacanth was also not a case of seeing is believing, a Museum Curator was called in, and she identified the find from fossil remains. Let me ask you this, what does the following picture depict?

What does your sight tell you?

[DONTEATUS]

An introduction would be more than seeing. It would be presenting a living example whom I could question. The Coelacanth was also not a case of seeing is believing, a Museum Curator was called in, and she identified the find from fossil remains. Let me ask you this, what does the following picture depict?

What does your sight tell you?

Oh ! OH ! me first ! me First !

I say its a Blue Meaniee`s ingrown pimple chin hair !

[psyche101]

It just amazes me how people like Penn Jillette say they believe in "freedom of speech" so they attack topics like ufology and the abduction phenomena but avoid Islam because of fear of retaliation. And yet it is islamic terrorist that attacked freedom. George Bush Jr. said so in his speech after 911 How freedom was attacked and freedom will be defended. Penn Jillette himself is a big pile of BULLS**T for not manning up for the freedoms that he values. He talks big, bad and bold on his show only if it's a safe subject. My respect for him is about as equal as your respect for Roger Lier. You might think I'm a UFO Nut. Maybe so, but I'm also Patriotic.

Making a smoke screen for Leir here? Sure looks like it. Islam has dangerous fundamentalists that will kill you if you say something negative about it. It is that simple. The Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy ended in over 100 deaths. That we know of. Would you personally take that sort of insanity on? Not quite the same as Leirs corner of the world is it, so you are comparing extremes, which is not a comparable situation, is it? I'd like to see you bellow your patriotic values on some street in the middle east!

Dr Roger Leir - Alien Implants [needs scientific refutation] LINK

The link provided is held on Youtube.

This video was hosted by X conference 2009 and has been put up online by UFO TV and is being pushed out by UFO believers as if a credible irrefutable fact.

I have a few major issues with this video, namely

1. Its making out Scientists are paid off and untrustworthy, then uses science and scientists to validate its claims.

2. The science it utilises is seemingly very vague and even down right nonsense.

3. Its pushing forward rumour and unnaccepted theories as if factual.

4. It commits multiple logical offenses in the name of appearing to be good research and credible.

This is what you value is it? These are the rights you are banging on about are they? All yours mate It amazes me to no end that people stand up for charlatans like this. All it takes is a modicum of research to expose these snake oil salesmen. Such people must have a real hatred for Scientific based skepticism. I don't get that.

Oh ! OH ! me first ! me First !

I say its a Blue Meaniee`s ingrown pimple chin hair !

Close..........

[psyche101]

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9ZGC9rV9-mU?rel=0

Believers turn into sceptics after conference

EVEN the true believers at a UFO conference in Rotorua were sceptical after a keynote speaker's presentation.

Delegates at the UFOCUS New Zealand conference were less than impressed with American podiatrist Dr Roger Leir, who claims to have surgically removed alien implants from humans.

Looks like he does need our help after all.

[scowl]

However there are many alleged abductees who want to keep their identity private for fear of ridicule and losing their jobs.

Has anyone lost their job after reporting a UFO?

Has anyone been ridiculed for simply making a credible UFO report?

I call B.S. on both of these. Most people are open to the possibility that we're being visited by aliens so a respectable person has nothing to fear when giving an accurate report of a UFO. Jimmy Carter saw a UFO (most likely Venus) and still became our president.

I think most "anonymous" witnesses fear something else: being proved wrong. It's difficult for many people to say exactly what they saw without embellishing their stories. If their sighting is explained then their embellishments are now lies and they are now liars. Even without embellishments, people don't want to be known as the person who thought a balloon was alien space craft even though no one would care.

But I'm the guy who thought a flock of geese was a boomerang-shaped UFO... for a minute anyway.

[Mike G]

So... how 'bout that Betty and Barney Hill movie?

[Hawken]

I think that there are those that like to argue for the sake of argument no matter what the topic is. I bet alot of you have a profile on a recipe website and argue in that forum on what ingredients to put in Mincemeat pie. I've seen both sides on this forum present links to videos or articles trying to prove there claims and yet each party refuses to give it consideration. It all boils down to this. Human pride and stubborness. No matter what evidence is provided, Our egos won't bend because of the human nature of not wanting to be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'll Man Up and admit to it. On Youtube I've debated with Conspiracey Theorist that man has landed on the moon and 911 wasn't staged by the US government but they are so dead set in there ways that nothing is changing there minds no matter what evidence is brought to them. I debated with one Youtube member about the moon landings and told him if the landings were a fraud, the Soviet Union would have made it public. His reply, That NASA and the Soviet Union were in on the conspiracy together.

[Hazzard]

Ryegrog... Why dont you try and find some good evidence to back your claim/belief instead. This song and dance routine is getting old really fast.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Hazzard

[Hawken]

Ryegrog... Why dont you try and find some good evidence to back your claim/belief instead. This song and dance routine is getting old really fast.

I have posted links to give some substantial evidence but you debunkers are going to disregard it no matter what. If I did have an alien in my pocket and introduced you, you would think it's a guy in a halloween costume.

[psyche101]

I think that there are those that like to argue for the sake of argument no matter what the topic is. I bet alot of you have a profile on a recipe website and argue in that forum on what ingredients to put in Mincemeat pie. I've seen both sides on this forum present links to videos or articles trying to prove there claims and yet each party refuses to give it consideration. It all boils down to this. Human pride and stubborness. No matter what evidence is provided, Our egos won't bend because of the human nature of not wanting to be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'll Man Up and admit to it. On Youtube I've debated with Conspiracey Theorist that man has landed on the moon and 911 wasn't staged by the US government but they are so dead set in there ways that nothing is changing there minds no matter what evidence is brought to them. I debated with one Youtube member about the moon landings and told him if the landings were a fraud, the Soviet Union would have made it public. His reply, That NASA and the Soviet Union were in on the conspiracy together.

You are a sore loser in debates aren't you? Debunking and opinion matters not, only empirical evidence does. It is not refutable. See my sig. Things are what they are. Only those with no respect, nor understanding of the Apollo missions will argue the moon landings. It is that simple. Why you would waste your time with such dunderheads is beyond me. I cannot validate deliberate ignorance on any level. That fellow you spoke to obviously cannot fathom the Cold War. In it together, LOL, yeah right! He must be a kid, or lived that period out in a cave. Proof is 100%. We can "ping" the moon from retroreflective mirrors. The longest running Lunar experiment. Another method is rather tricky, but I have been told although the landers cannot be resolved, one can find their shadows at the right time of day with some extreme patience.

Astounding how that shadow happens to be just where we have been saying the Lunar Landers were all along.

Isn't it ironic how Moon Hoaxers say it is impossible for us to have gone to the moon, but most of them will tell you Aliens land there all the time.

[psyche101]

I have posted links to give some substantial evidence but you debunkers are going to disregard it no matter what. If I did have an alien in my pocket and introduced you, you would think it's a guy in a halloween costume.

Absolute codswallop. Every link or "proof" you have posted has been met with rebuttal that shows they are not evidence at all. That is what you do in a discussion forum, you post evidence, and people discuss it, and it's validity. Nothing you have posted has been valid, just some snake oil salesmen. Honestly, I am nothing short of surprised at your reaction. I would have expected you would be pleased to find real information that is backed by sources and fact as opposed to conspiracy theories. Do you want to find out the real truth, or do you want to hide with the covers over your head pretending that Ghost stories are real? If that is the case, there is nothing wrong with that, you will just receive heavy opposition if you make out that such wild claims are valid.

[TheMcGuffin]

I have posted links to give some substantial evidence but you debunkers are going to disregard it no matter what. If I did have an alien in my pocket and introduced you, you would think it's a guy in a halloween costume.

That's about right.

[TheMcGuffin]

Has anyone lost their job after reporting a UFO?

Has anyone been ridiculed for simply making a credible UFO report?

Yes and yes, including airline pilots, just for starters. As for ridicule, it's standard operating procedure for "skeptics" and is done constantly, even automatically.

[psyche101]

That's about right.

Not in this thread it is not. Dr Leir as evidence? New Zealand took a dim view of his fantastical claims as well in the link I provided. Presenting such a person as evidence is always going to attract strong rebuttal. Rye just does not stand up as well as you do to opposing views.

Edited November 15, 2011 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Yes and yes, including airline pilots, just for starters. As for ridicule, it's standard operating procedure for "skeptics" and is done constantly, even automatically.

I am not sure about losing jobs, but I know that a certain Captain Terauchi was delegated to a desk job for exactly that. Might have been a good reason for that or not, but either way, you are correct in that corrective action for reporting a UFO is not unheard of.

Edited November 15, 2011 by psyche101

[scowl]

Yes and yes, including airline pilots, just for starters. As for ridicule, it's standard operating procedure for "skeptics" and is done constantly, even automatically.

NO and NO.

Give me names. Give me airlines. Give me stories. Give me sources. Give me dates. Prove me wrong.

The only people who have been ridiculed are liars and hoaxers like Ed Walters whose stories and doctored photos have earned them ridicule.

[scowl]

I am not sure about losing jobs, but I know that a certain Captain Terauchi was delegated to a desk job for exactly that. Might have been a good reason for that or not, but either way, you are correct in that corrective action for reporting a UFO is not unheard of.

Kenju Terauchi was moved to a desk job not because he reported a UFO but because he gave interviews to the Japanese press about it while the incident was being investigated. JAL has a very strict policy of not commenting on incidents that are under investigation. Terauchi was aware of that policy and blatantly violated it. He was free to speak to the press after the the FAA investigation was completed.

He was back flying aircraft two years later after the investigation. He never lost his job and received full pilot's pay the entire time he was grounded.

[psyche101]

Kenju Terauchi was moved to a desk job not because he reported a UFO but because he gave interviews to the Japanese press about it while the incident was being investigated. JAL has a very strict policy of not commenting on incidents that are under investigation. Terauchi was aware of that policy and blatantly violated it. He was free to speak to the press after the the FAA investigation was completed.

He was back flying aircraft two years later after the investigation. He never lost his job and received full pilot's pay the entire time he was grounded.

Indeed, but as a result of reporting the UFO, which as you say contravened company guidelines. There was good reason for the action, but it did happen, and Terauchi seems to have deliberately put himself in this position. Still, I cannot think of another instance, and this one is validated, you ask a good question, who are these Pilots sacked for speaking out? I am struggling to find a case.

[scowl]

Indeed, but as a result of reporting the UFO, which as you say contravened company guidelines.

No. He was not punished for reporting the UFO to air traffic control or participating in the the FAA investigation that resulted from his report. He was punished for giving interviews to the media that were not authorized by JAL. That isn't a company guideline. That's a company rule. He knew it and he admitted that he broke it. He may have thought the rule only applied to air accident investigations but it clearly meant any kind of investigation. If his report hadn't resulted in an investigation, he could have freely talked to the media.

JAL could have fired Terauchi but instead he was just grounded for a couple of years with pay, then he was back flying planes for JAL until he retired. None of the other aircrew who reported the UFO were punished because they didn't talk to the media.

There was good reason for the action, but it did happen, and Terauchi seems to have deliberately put himself in this position. Still, I cannot think of another instance, and this one is validated, you ask a good question, who are these Pilots sacked for speaking out? I am struggling to find a case.

UFOlogists say pilots are forbidden to report any of the UFOs they see all the time or they'll get fired, implying that they see them all the time. It's just not true. They can't point to a single pilot who has been fired because none have been. Even in Terauchi's case we have a pilot reporting an incredible UFO (the size of two aircraft carriers!) that resulted in an FAA investigation. If he had followed his employer's rules after reporting the UFO, he would have continued to fly 747s until he retired.

Unionized pilots are not easily fired in any case.

[psyche101]

No. He was not punished for reporting the UFO to air traffic control or participating in the the FAA investigation that resulted from his report. He was punished for giving interviews to the media that were not authorized by JAL. That isn't a company guideline. That's a company rule. He knew it and he admitted that he broke it. He may have thought the rule only applied to air accident investigations but it clearly meant any kind of investigation. If his report hadn't resulted in an investigation, he could have freely talked to the media.

JAL could have fired Terauchi but instead he was just grounded for a couple of years with pay, then he was back flying planes for JAL until he retired. None of the other aircrew who reported the UFO were punished because they didn't talk to the media.

So from what you are saying, JAL were lenient if anything on the captain. I do not kno the case all that well, I have looked at the UFO description a few times, it always stikes me as natural phenomena to be quite honest.

Quite blown out of proportion this case isn't it?

UFOlogists say pilots are forbidden to report any of the UFOs they see all the time or they'll get fired, implying that they see them all the time. It's just not true. They can't point to a single pilot who has been fired because none have been. Even in Terauchi's case we have a pilot reporting an incredible UFO (the size of two aircraft carriers!) that resulted in an FAA investigation. If he had followed his employer's rules after reporting the UFO, he would have continued to fly 747s until he retired.

Yes, I have heard it many ties as well, sounds a bit like the Roswell death threats, it dos not even make sense to begin with considering your next line:

Unionized pilots are not easily fired in any case.

And there lies the rub. The unions are a formidable adversary. Thanks scowl, I had not looked into the claim before, it seems to be pretty darn baseless.

[TheMcGuffin]

NO and NO.

Give me names. Give me airlines. Give me stories. Give me sources. Give me dates. Prove me wrong.

The only people who have been ridiculed are liars and hoaxers like Ed Walters whose stories and doctored photos have earned them ridicule.

Oh, I forgot about this thread, but now I'll have to think about it again because of one of your dim little comments. You don't know much about UFO history at all, do you?

You might want to look up Richard Haines for starters and find out why most airline pilots never report their sightings at all.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc731.htm

Edited November 18, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[TheMcGuffin]

No. He was not punished for reporting the UFO to air traffic control or participating in the the FAA investigation that resulted from his report. He was punished for giving interviews to the media that were not authorized by JAL. That isn't a company guideline. That's a company rule. He knew it and he admitted that he broke it. He may have thought the rule only applied to air accident investigations but it clearly meant any kind of investigation. If his report hadn't resulted in an investigation, he could have freely talked to the media.

Unionized pilots are not easily fired in any case.

You forgot to mention that someone had to write a letter to JAL on his behalf. You may even know who I'm talking about, too. I bet you do. Richard Haines. I bet you know exactly why JAL grounded him, too, and it wasn't because he gave an interview. They tried to say that he was mentally unstable until Haines intervened on his behalf.

That was a charge airline pilots always feared when it came to reporting UFOs, because they could lose their jobs and their licenses.

Anything else you'd like to add here, because I know all about this case--and many others. Think it over carefully.

Edited November 18, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[TheMcGuffin]

So from what you are saying, JAL were lenient if anything on the captain. I do not kno the case all that well, I have looked at the UFO description a few times, it always stikes me as natural phenomena to be quite honest.

Quite blown out of proportion this case isn't it?

Yes, I have heard it many ties as well, sounds a bit like the Roswell death threats, it dos not even make sense to begin with considering your next line:

And there lies the rub. The unions are a formidable adversary. Thanks scowl, I had not looked into the claim before, it seems to be pretty darn baseless.

Scowl would be well-advised to amend these comments, because he must know this is not an accurate picture of what really happened, either in this case or many others.

For example, does Scowl know the history of Joint Chiefs regulation JANAP-146 of 1954 and how airline pilots reacted to it? If he doesn't, I'd suggest that he look it up.

[mcrom901]

For example, does Scowl know the history of Joint Chiefs regulation JANAP-146 of 1954 and how airline pilots reacted to it?

how would that apply to jal?

[TheMcGuffin]

how would that apply to jal?

I didn't know that I was restricted to discussing only that one case and no others. I do have your permission to mention other things, don't I?