Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
Persia

Dramatisation of 1961 alien abduction

355 posts in this topic

Scowl didn't look up Title 18, Section 792 etc of the US Code, but he should have. I posted this several times just in hopes that someone would say I wasn't telling the truth. That is the official title of the Espionage Act.

TheMcGuffen doesn't understand that reporting a UFO is not considered espionage under any US law.

No one has ever been convicted for reporting a UFO.

No one has ever been fired for reporting a UFO.

And yet TheMcGuffen continues to repeat this mantra because UFO believers must believe that pilots see flying saucers every day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TheMcGuffen doesn't understand that reporting a UFO is not considered espionage under any US law.

No one has ever been convicted for reporting a UFO.

No one has ever been fired for reporting a UFO.

And yet TheMcGuffen continues to repeat this mantra because UFO believers must believe that pilots see flying saucers every day.

This is very frustrating to me, because it's a deliberate twisting and distortion of what I posted. Scowl didn't even bother to look up the part of JANAP that specifically referred to the Espionage Act. I had to do that for him.

It says very clearly that military and civilian pilots who report UFOs outside of authorized channels can be prosecuted under the Espionage Act. All Scowl has to do is be able to read in order to understand that. It was even worse than being fired, and it certainly had an intimidating effect on anyone who wanted to reveal information about UFOs.

Once again, this should be obvious to the village idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only these "skeptics" could call me "evasive" when I go out of my way to answer their questions with post after post.

You go out of your way to supply incomplete or irrelevant information, you shrug when we explain exactly why the information is incomplete or irrelevant, then you wonder why we don't thank you!

It really is pointless to even try to deal with them because it's never good enough, no matter what.

That's because your criteria for evidence is far below what skeptics use. I think you would believe almost anything that supports your UFO cause without giving it a second thought. You still believe that airline pilots have been fired for reporting UFOs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It says very clearly that military and civilian pilots who report UFOs outside of authorized channels can be prosecuted under the Espionage Act.

It does not say that! It simply reminds the reader that the transmissions are subject to the Communications Act of 1934. That means that any third party that discloses this information can be prosecuted for espionage. That should come as no surprise since JANAP 146 covers a wide range of miliary activities that could be important to the security of the United States.

Do you understand the Communications Act of 1934? I do. I don't believe you know anything about it and that's why you're confused. It only applies to third party disclosure. In this case the pilot is the first party. The second party is the intended receiver of the transmission. The third party is the unintended receiver of the transmission. The law prevents the third party from releasing or acting on any information he or she received. The pilot is restricted by other laws from what he or she can do with the information, but the Communication Act of 1934 doesn't cover this.

There is nothing in JANAP 146 that requires anyone to report through your so-called "authorized channels" (they aren't even mentioned). The citation of the Communications Act of 1934 in paragraph 208 is nothing more than a reminder that the law exists and applies to the transmissions outlines in the document.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not say that! It simply reminds the reader that the transmissions are subject to the Communications Act of 1934. That means that any third party that discloses this information can be prosecuted for espionage. That should come as no surprise since JANAP 146 covers a wide range of miliary activities that could be important to the security of the United States.

Do you understand the Communications Act of 1934? I do. I don't believe you know anything about it and that's why you're confused. It only applies to third party disclosure. In this case the pilot is the first party. The second party is the intended receiver of the transmission. The third party is the unintended receiver of the transmission. The law prevents the third party from releasing or acting on any information he or she received. The pilot is restricted by other laws from what he or she can do with the information, but the Communication Act of 1934 doesn't cover this.

There is nothing in JANAP 146 that requires anyone to report through your so-called "authorized channels" (they aren't even mentioned). The citation of the Communications Act of 1934 in paragraph 208 is nothing more than a reminder that the law exists and applies to the transmissions outlines in the document.

Here again, I question your honesty or your basic literacy. JANAP 146C of 1954 states very plainly in Section 308:

"a. All persons aware of the contents or existence of a MERINT Report are governed by the Communications Act of 1934 and amendments Thereto, and Espionage Laws. MERINT reports contain information affecting the National Defense of the United States within the meaning of the Espionage Laws, 18 U.S. Code, 793 and 794. The unauthorized transmission Or revelation of the contents of MERINT reports in any manner is prohibited."

http://www.cufon.org/cufon/janp146c.htm

Edited by TheMcGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JANAP 146, from 1950 onward, has been been part of the UFO cover up. Air Defense Command gets all these UFO reports and they have never been subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0NKMouMSM

Edited by TheMcGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under the Espionage Act, the U.S. government can hand out any penalty it feels like, up to and including 30 days in the electric chair.

web5_a%5B4%5D.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it Safe? "Is it Safe"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scowl would be well-advised to amend these comments, because he must know this is not an accurate picture of what really happened, either in this case or many others.

For example, does Scowl know the history of Joint Chiefs regulation JANAP-146 of 1954 and how airline pilots reacted to it? If he doesn't, I'd suggest that he look it up.

Hi McGuffin

Problem is we still do not have the name of a single pilot who has been officially fired for speaking out about witnessing a UFO, and I m having a real hard time finding an official case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under the Espionage Act, the U.S. government can hand out any penalty it feels like, up to and including 30 days in the electric chair.

Not under chapter 37! Did you read chapter 37?

This is a typical over exaggeration on your part. Those sections of chapter 37 that relate to CIRVIS and MERINT define punishment of fines or imprisonment not exceeding 10 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not under chapter 37! Did you read chapter 37?

This is a typical over exaggeration on your part. Those sections of chapter 37 that relate to CIRVIS and MERINT define punishment of fines or imprisonment not exceeding 10 years.

Where have you been all this time? You knew this information about JANAP and said nothing? I'm the one who posted all this in the first place and you probably knew perfectly well that I was right about it, but that's not what's really important to you people, is it?

Edited by TheMcGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi McGuffin

Problem is we still do not have the name of a single pilot who has been officially fired for speaking out about witnessing a UFO, and I m having a real hard time finding an official case.

Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS. They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth. It's downright sick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS. They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth. It's downright sick.

Hey McGuffin

I am not trying to attack you, but was hoping you could help. I cannot find a straight up case where a Pilot was fired for speaking out about a UFO. Has this actually happened? I cannot remember a case, and am struggling to find a precedent, but have heard the claim many times. I just want to find out if there is any truth to it at all, as it does seem to be somewhat embellished. If cases exist, they most certainly are not common, but if these are the people seeing them as regularly as is claimed, surely it should not be so hard a task?

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even when I'm right about something I still get attacked by people like Scowl and LS. They'd rather choke than admit that I was telling the truth. It's downright sick.

Nobody is attacking you McGuffin. Scowl and LS are engaging you in debate because your interpretation of JANAP 146 doesn't appear to be consistent with the actual content of JANAP 146 and as psyche is respectfully pointing out, we haven't seen any examples of this punishment you claim pilots would be subject to for reporting UFOs. Can you provide some examples?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where have you been all this time? You knew this information about JANAP and said nothing? I'm the one who posted all this in the first place and you probably knew perfectly well that I was right about it, but that's not what's really important to you people, is it?

Err... You are not right about it. What you've posted is incorrect. Again read Title 18, chapter 37, § 793. A person must have "intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation,".Clearly that would not apply to someone talking about a UFO sighting days or weeks after the fact.

ETA: Also look at JANAP 146 itself. It's left up to the "opinion of the observer" to determine whether a sighting is of "vital importance to the security of the United States of America and Canada and their armed forces" and "requires prompt defensive and/or investigative action by

the US and/or Canadian Armed Forces.". Bold emphasis mine, underline emphasis original to text.

Edited by lost_shaman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

imo you guys are missing a very crucial point here i.e. whilst all those cirvis reports were being collected, there were claims that...

8b906f2ae2bb.jpg

:unsure2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Err... You are not right about it. What you've posted is incorrect. Again read Title 18, chapter 37, § 793. A person must have "intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation,".Clearly that would not apply to someone talking about a UFO sighting days or weeks after the fact.

that + the unavailability of any such reports indicates that simply none were ever made...

B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us. Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc. Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System. He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article. To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die. He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us. Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc. Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System. He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article. To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die. He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.

And the bogeyman is in your closet too. Either there or under your bed. And if not there... well, I'm sure he's hiding somewhere and I'd bet the government is behind the whole damn thing! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hard facts are out there but are being kept from us. Many members of government entities such as the military,etc. are not at liberty to discuss their experiences, scope of their duties, places they have been,etc. Not to mention compartmentalization of the classified which gives need to know only what you need to know to do your job.

I do not know, we also hear Pilots get fired for speaking out about UFO's, I have to say I am having a hard time finding a single soul that has been subject to such though. Can you prove this is the case?

My father came unglued when I began to talk about the HARP System. He almost physically attacked me until I told him that it was in a "Popular Science" article. To him this was if you don't need to know and you do you must die. He was a Load Master in the 70's and 80's, crossed trained from being a Physician's Assistant.

And he did not know it was in Popular Science? Do you think some of these guys might have been fed stories of over importance by their superiors?

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not know, we also hear Pilots get fired for speaking out about UFO's, I have to say I am having a hard time finding a single soul that has been subject to such though. Can you prove this is the case?

And he did not know it was in Popular Science? Do you think some of these guys might have been fed stories of over importance by their superiors?

He, my father, as well as many others in the military, special forces group anyway, explained this protocol.

No. He didn't pursue science. Wasn't interested only history. After that blow up, much later, he told me he had components of that system as his cargo and flew them into Alaska.

As far as the pilots I don't know. He and my uncle were flyers but they were held up in the cargo area and they never told me stories about sightings.

Edited by DENNISSTARR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the bogeyman is in your closet too. Either there or under your bed. And if not there... well, I'm sure he's hiding somewhere and I'd bet the government is behind the whole damn thing! :rolleyes:

Why not? Is it not plausible that they have had contact with beings who have imparted some knowledge that the government has exploited? Perhaps it is a power thing to hold this stuff back. Knowledge is power. That is what you need knowledge of the existence of UFOs and aliens in order for them to be real to you. So what if these things are actually ours or at least some. You purported that what highly advanced being would need to do these things. Perhaps it isn't them but us who need to do these things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He, my father, as well as many others in the military, special forces group anyway, explained this protocol.

No. He didn't pursue science. Wasn't interested only history. After that blow up, much later, he told me he had components of that system as his cargo and flew them into Alaska.

As far as the pilots I don't know. He and my uncle were flyers but they were held up in the cargo area and they never told me stories about sightings.

My sister served with the RAAF as CISCOM. She never heard anything UFO/ET related either. Perhaps he just might not have realised his cargo was declassified I guess, great job Loadmaster. Must be quite a well respected man. Sounds like he took his position very seriously. I urged my stepson to try out for loadmaster, he got some young girl pregnant instead. On the dole now. Ohh well. Their kid is cute.

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My sister served with the RAAF as CISCOM. She never heard anything UFO/ET related either. Perhaps he just might not have realised his cargo was declassified I guess, great job Loadmaster. Must be quite a well respected man. Sounds like he took his position very seriously. I urged my stepson to try out for loadmaster, he got some young girl pregnant instead. On the dole now. Ohh well. Their kid is cute.

Thanks. He is. He told me some of his experiences but I'm sure not a lot. Some of the tests they conducted with parachuting equipment out of the plane such as tanks. They tried to figure out how they could drop the equipment out with the crew inside, high extraction and low. They couldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. He is. He told me some of his experiences but I'm sure not a lot. Some of the tests they conducted with parachuting equipment out of the plane such as tanks. They tried to figure out how they could drop the equipment out with the crew inside, high extraction and low. They couldn't.

I cannot help but think of the A Team movie where they come down in a tank!

Rhythm_0110.jpg

No disrespect intended, it just happened to be the very first thing that popped into my head. I know this is not possible, but little in that movie is I think. Awesome to watch though.

I agree that there are many things we do not know, but I think for national security it needs to be this way. It sounds like your father got to see some things the average person did not. An accomplishment in it's own right. But as his own words seem to indicate from the brief snippets that you have shared, his, and the militaries real concern is other men. War is what we fear I feel, and that alone makes the global/alien situation rather questionable. The US has many enemies that simply would not put up with Interstellar traffic on the sly.

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.