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Persia

Hitler didn’t kill himself in Berlin

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I can see the allies not being sure it was him but wanting to move on from the war.

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It makes sense to me. It was the end of WW2 and the start of the cold war. The Nazi's were trying like hell to cut deals and the Americans were in a desperate race for German scientists and technologies, why wouldn't Eisenhower have made a deal for technologies that he believed would put the US in an advantage for the impending arms race?

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Hitler was in Berlin, which was completely closed off by the Russians. The Americans couldn't have made a deal with him even if they wanted to. And it would have been a much larger benefit to capture Hitler and put him on trial. After all why make a deal with someone to get technology when you're currently in the process of beating the hell out of him and taking all his stuff anyway?

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I have also heard this theory. A women working in a german hotel in Argintina claimed to see him after the war. He didn't have a mostashe and was under a false name obvisously, but the hotel staff and manager were aware that an important person was arriving. They were surprised to find that it was hitler. I believe that Israel actually sent spies to Argintina to try to find this guy, but the trail stopped in a town known for plastic surgery. Im sorry that i don't have all the details but it has been a while since i heard the story.

Also the skull with a bullet in it that the russians claimed was Hitlers turned out to be a female skull.

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Hitler was in Berlin, which was completely closed off by the Russians. The Americans couldn't have made a deal with him even if they wanted to. And it would have been a much larger benefit to capture Hitler and put him on trial. After all why make a deal with someone to get technology when you're currently in the process of beating the hell out of him and taking all his stuff anyway?

That makes sense, but my thinking is A) The Americans weren't the only ones beating the hell out of him and they didn't want to take the chance of the RUsskies getting ahold of the tech. B ) Beating the hell out of a nation can have unintended consequences , such as beating the hell out of the very tech (and technicians) you're trying to capture. C) Perhaps Hitler knew where something was that we didn't.

Not saying any of the above necessarily makes Hitler's escape true , just adds a little texture to the backdrop

Edited by bigtroutak

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I don't think a sword will do the trick...I think you have to "stake" them through the heart (a la Buffy style). :yes:

Darn I don't have a stake ... I wanted to pull a "Duncan McLeod".... and be able to say "There can be only one" :(

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Darn I don't have a stake ... I wanted to pull a "Duncan McLeod".... and be able to say "There can be only one" :(

That might just work as well...go for it. :yes:

(nothing like a man with a sword wearing a kilt!)

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Is there any evidence AT ALL that he died in the bunker?

What eyewitness reports exist?

I am curious because I don't believe any photos exist.

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That makes sense, but my thinking is A) The Americans weren't the only ones beating the hell out of him and they didn't want to take the chance of the RUsskies getting ahold of the tech. B ) Beating the hell out of a nation can have unintended consequences , such as beating the hell out of the very tech (and technicians) you're trying to capture. C) Perhaps Hitler knew where something was that we didn't.

Not saying any of the above necessarily makes Hitler's escape true , just adds a little texture to the backdrop

Well the Russians were already getting a hold of a fair bit of the technology anyway since the bulk of the German forces were always fighting on the Eastern Front. Plus before the Battle of Berlin even began the Allies had already agreed on how Germany was going to be divided post war. So the Americans knew that the Russians were going to take Berlin, and any toys that it might hold, and didn't seem that bugged about it otherwise they would have kept pushing the advance. And if Hitler had any tricks left he would have used them in an effort to turn things around.

All in all a secret deal is very unlikely given the context of the situation.

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Well the Russians were already getting a hold of a fair bit of the technology anyway since the bulk of the German forces were always fighting on the Eastern Front. Plus before the Battle of Berlin even began the Allies had already agreed on how Germany was going to be divided post war. So the Americans knew that the Russians were going to take Berlin, and any toys that it might hold, and didn't seem that bugged about it otherwise they would have kept pushing the advance. And if Hitler had any tricks left he would have used them in an effort to turn things around.

All in all a secret deal is very unlikely given the context of the situation.

I agree. Here are some of those animals that were found and brought to trial though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/8510291/John-Demjanjuk-found-guilty-most-wanted-Nazis.html

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Is there any evidence AT ALL that he died in the bunker?

What eyewitness reports exist?

I am curious because I don't believe any photos exist.

Well I'm not sure if anyone actually saw him off himself but several high ranking German officers (Goebbels and Bormann among others) were with him in the bunker and witnessed his last will and testament. Also since Hitler's body was reported to have been destroyed before the remaining Germans surrendered there wouldn't have been any pictures. But we know from German witnesses and orders being issued that Hitler was in the bulker when the Russians completely surrounded Berlin. With Soviet troops just a few blocks away and shooting anything that moved it's highly unlikely he would have been able to slip away.

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Well I'm not sure if anyone actually saw him off himself but several high ranking German officers (Goebbels and Bormann among others) were with him in the bunker and witnessed his last will and testament. Also since Hitler's body was reported to have been destroyed before the remaining Germans surrendered there wouldn't have been any pictures. But we know from German witnesses and orders being issued that Hitler was in the bulker when the Russians completely surrounded Berlin. With Soviet troops just a few blocks away and shooting anything that moved it's highly unlikely he would have been able to slip away.

Here is an interesting link about the Hitler suicide photo's. Right or wrong, I found it interesting with some very good points.

http://www.blackraiser.com/redoubt/

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I too find it disturbing to think that he might have got out alive. I think it is possible but in all likelihood not very probable. If that makes sense. I am sure we don't know the full story and more than likely never will. The fact that the allies won is the best part. It would be nice to finally know the truth, DNA or whatever but will we ever be satisfied? I mean, will we believe the Ruskies? The Americans? Anyone? I don't mind books like this, unless they claim that they have indisputable proof, when then they don't. I like reading theories and conspiracy theories but the second they claim it is true without the hard evidence I get bored.

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Is there any evidence AT ALL that he died in the bunker?

What eyewitness reports exist?

I am curious because I don't believe any photos exist.

The Wiki entry on the death of Hitler names the witnesses...

Suicide

Hitler and Braun lived together as husband and wife in the bunker for fewer than 40 hours. Late in the morning of 30 April, with the Soviets less than 500 metres from the bunker, Hitler had a meeting with General Helmuth Weidling, commander of the Berlin Defence Area, who informed Hitler that the Berlin garrison would probably run out of ammunition that night. Weidling asked Hitler for permission to break out, a request he had made unsuccessfully before. Hitler did not answer at first, and Weidling went back to his headquarters in the Bendlerblock, where at about 13:00 he got Hitler's permission to try a breakout that night.[44] Hitler, two secretaries, and his personal cook then had lunch after which Hitler and Eva Braun said their personal farewells to members of the Führerbunker staff and fellow occupants, including the Goebbels family, Martin Bormann, the secretaries, and several military officers. At around 14:30 Adolf and Eva Hitler went into Hitler's personal study.

The remains of the above-ground portion of the Führerbunker in the garden of the Reich Chancellery. Entrance is to the left and circular structure was for generators and ventilation.Several witnesses later reported hearing a loud gunshot at around 15:30. After waiting a few minutes, Hitler's valet, Heinz Linge, with Bormann at his side, opened the door to the small study. Linge later stated he immediately noted a scent of burnt almonds, a common observation made in the presence of prussic acid, the aqueous form of hydrogen cyanide.[45] Hitler's SS adjutant, Sturmbannführer Otto Günsche, entered the study and found the lifeless bodies seated on a small sofa. Eva, with her legs drawn up together, was to Hitler's left and slumped away from him. Günsche stated that Hitler "...sat...sunken over, with blood dripping out of his right temple. He had shot himself with his own pistol, a PPK 7.65".[46][45][47] The Walther PPK 7.65 mm pistol lay at his feet.[45] According to Oberscharführer Rochus Misch, however, Hitler's head was lying on the table in front of him.[48] Blood dripping from Hitler's right temple and chin had made a large stain on the right arm of the sofa and was pooling on the floor/carpet. Eva's body had no visible physical wounds and according to Linge, her face showed how she had died; cyanide poisoning. Günsche and Mohnke also stated "unequivocally" that all outsiders and those performing duties and work in the bunker "did not have any access" to Hitler's private living quarters during the "decisive" time of death between 15:00 and 16:00 hours.

Günsche exited the study and announced that the Führer was dead. The two bodies were carried up the stairs to ground level and through the bunker's emergency exit to the bombed-out garden behind the Reich Chancellery where they were doused with petrol.[

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They are just milking a tired old conspiracy theory that never made sense. Not news. Bah.

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I too find it disturbing to think that he might have got out alive. I think it is possible but in all likelihood not very probable. If that makes sense. I am sure we don't know the full story and more than likely never will. The fact that the allies won is the best part.

Assuming he did live, I think he would be living in his own personal Hell on Earth knowing his empire was a failure, and all the unclean beasts were free to roam the land. His dreams in life were destroyed.

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So high ranking nazi officials are the only witnesses?

If you were a high ranking nazi official, wouldn't you say that your leader killed himself instead of saying "Yea, he escaped go ahead and find him."

Nazis are not the best witnesses for this.

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Assuming he did live, I think he would be living in his own personal Hell on Earth knowing his empire was a failure, and all the unclean beasts were free to roam the land. His dreams in life were destroyed.

That is true. I wonder if he actuall realised in his last days this was what was happening. I hope he did!

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why would hitler be hiding in a bunker of course he would have fled ..ediots

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So high ranking nazi officials are the only witnesses?

If you were a high ranking nazi official, wouldn't you say that your leader killed himself instead of saying "Yea, he escaped go ahead and find him."

Nazis are not the best witnesses for this.

Agreed.

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Assuming he did live, I think he would be living in his own personal Hell on Earth knowing his empire was a failure, and all the unclean beasts were free to roam the land. His dreams in life were destroyed.

That is true. I wonder if he actuall realised in his last days this was what was happening. I hope he did!

his dreams probly did become reality when he probly started helping with the new world order domination so no he didnt loose at all Edited by reggie2011

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why would hitler be hiding in a bunker of course he would have fled ..ediots

I used to think this too, and whilst it is still a possibility, but really hitler made a lot of bizarre decisions, so it is just as likely he would have stayed.

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I believe this is what i watched a few years ago, with the eye witness account of seeing hitler in Argentina

Channel Premiere: History’s Secrets: The Hunt For Hitler

National Geographic – Saturday 4 August, 10.30pm

The history books tell us that Adolf Hitler and his bride killed themselves in a Berlin bunker. Yet some say Hitler faked his suicide and fled to Argentina. Russian soldiers claimed to have incinerated his body and dumped the remains. Can we really be sure what became of Hitler?

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I believe this is what i watched a few years ago, with the eye witness account of seeing hitler in Argentina

Ah yes I have watched that before. The airplane taking off is very interesting.

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why would hitler be hiding in a bunker of course he would have fled ..ediots

No, you are the ediot <sic>. His mental state at the time and his situation has been amply documented. Read up on it.

It takes a extraordinariy amount of ignorance to swallow this conspiracy theory.

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