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R.I.P. Gaddafi

180 posts in this topic

I wasn't sure where to put this thread but decided this was probably the best forum.

Something has felt wrong to me about this whole Gaddafi/Libya episode from the beginning.

I have been disgusted with the news coverage about Gaddafi's death and feel it has been

a cynical exercise of politically motivated propaganda.

Pictures of Gaddafi....blooded, abused and executed have been splashed all over the front pages...

And then we wonder why young people turn to violence and think it's ok!!!!

Anyway here's a video showing the other side of the story.

and....

Hillary, Hillary, Hillary !!!

With 6 words you have sealed your political future. You have blown it.

Could the points outlined in the first video above be the real reason Gaddafi was 'removed' ???

.

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Pictures of Gaddafi....blooded, abused and executed have been splashed all over the front pages...

And then we wonder why young people turn to violence and think it's ok!!!!

Can't watch the videos, but i agree with the above.

My first reaction was... Wow this is a good start for their democracy.

And then I started to think about how they treated his boody after death.

Why is this accepted? Didn't hear Obama or any other national leader say that is not the way to do it. Actually they went out and congratulated Libya. Shouldn't they have said, this is not how you treat a dead prisoner? If not, why didn't we do the same with Bin Larden?

Libya have shown that its okay to go agianst muslim customs if the person was a tyrant.

I want Bin Lardens body up from the deep sea and have my own litlle "tour" around his body, just like they did with Gadaffi.

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I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

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Thanks for your reply BFB

Can't watch the videos, but i agree with the above.

four quotes from the video...

"Before NATO invasion Libyans enjoyed the highest standard of living in Africa ahead of Russia, Brazil and Saudi Arabia"

"In Libya homes are considered a human right"

"Newly married couples received $50,000 to buy their own home"

Electricity is free to all people"

This was in Gaddafi's Libya.

My first reaction was... Wow this is a good start for their democracy.

And then I started to think about how they treated his boody after death.

Why is this accepted? Didn't hear Obama or any other national leader say that is not the way to do it. Actually they went out and congratulated Libya. Shouldn't they have said, this is not how you treat a dead prisoner? If not, why didn't we do the same with Bin Larden?

IMO...our 'leaders' have brought shame on us by what has happened in Libya and the way

they have accepted....encouraged... the unacceptable.

Libya have shown that its okay to go agianst muslim customs if the person was a tyrant.

good point

there was a piece in the Daily Mirror UK newspaper yesterday...the title of the article was

Chilling Day Out....Kids queue to see Mad Dog in Freezer (and a picture of the kids)

the last little paragraph said

"Libya's acting Prime Minister, Mahmoud Jibri announced yesterday that Islamic Sharia law

is to become the 'basic source' of the new legal system"

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I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D

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There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?

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I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

It looks like it was oil and GOLD and a new money system?

I saw this on YT

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There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?

There was clearly opposition alright, but with NATO airstrikes round the clock for months, they didn't need to be very strong to prevail.

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Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D

Syria's Assad is probably a very worried man right now.

The barbaric killing of Gaddafi and the West's complicity and approval...was probably

also designed to be a warning.

There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?

It's hard for us to get the facts about it all because of the propaganda...

but I expect rival tribes were encouraged...paid even! to turn on Gaddafi

they could not have done it without the NATO 'support'...which suggests

that NATO was backing a minority?

There would have been simmering power struggles within...?

note quote about Sharia Law in my previous post.

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Syria's Assad is probably a very worried man right now.

The barbaric killing of Gaddafi and the West's complicity and approval...was probably

also designed to be a warning.

No i don't think so. 3 reasons for that.

1. If NATO really wanted to help the civilians, they would allready have been in Syria. Assad have slaughtered more protesting men, women and children than Gaddafi ever did.

2. There is no oil they can gain from in Syria.

3. Iran have said if the US and NATO touch Syria, they would declare war.

What happened with the motto: We never negotiate with criminals?

Edited by Scepticus

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No i don't think so. 3 reasons for that.

1. If NATO really wanted to help the civilians, they would allready have been in Syria. Assad have slaughtered more protesting men, women and children than Gaddafi ever did.

2. There is no oil they can gain from in Syria.

3. Iran have said if the US and NATO touch Syria, they would declare war.

What happened with the motto: We never negotiate with criminals?

I take all your points....

But would de-stabilizing the Middle East also be behind what's been going on?

Although how the power vacuums will be filled and how the ordinary poeople will fair remains to be seen.

Libya isn't in the Middle East...but destroying Gaddafi's Libya would have been a political move

connected to destabilizing the whole area? (while also tackling the oil/gold/economy question)

Former 4-star U.S General admits to America Foreign Policy Coup

?

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I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

You mean the oil that the West was already getting? Odd how everyone seems to forget that little fact.

Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D

Libya was begging for direct military intervention. Syria has not from what I can tell. The Arab League wanted a no fly zone in Libya. They're divided on Syria. The UN approved action in Libya. Russia and China are blocking any kind of action against Syria. Libya had no allies. Syria has Iran backing them up. The Libyan government vowed to butcher the protesters. The Syrian government is still pretending there's only a bit of violence. But no I'm sure it's all about oil. :rolleyes:

Given the all the 'imperialism' and 'war for oil' whining shouldn't people be thrilled that NATO is standing around letting Syrians be murdered? Judging from the reaction with Libya that's what people want.

Edited by Corp

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Libya was begging for direct military intervention. Syria has not from what I can tell. The Arab League wanted a no fly zone in Libya. They're divided on Syria. The UN approved action in Libya. Russia and China are blocking any kind of action against Syria. Libya had no allies. Syria has Iran backing them up. The Libyan government vowed to butcher the protesters. The Syrian government is still pretending there's only a bit of violence. But no I'm sure it's all about oil. :rolleyes:

Given the all the 'imperialism' and 'war for oil' whining shouldn't people be thrilled that NATO is standing around letting Syrians be murdered? Judging from the reaction with Libya that's what people want.

:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.

The people in Syria have done the same and they are quite depressed that the world won't help them.

Why do you think that China and Russia voted veto? I wouldn't start a war in my own backyard either and also cut off a money supply?.

I know for a fact that the Russians have an arms deal agreement with Syria. This deal generates 6 billion dollars a year.

Why do you think the US haven't allready attacked Iran? They had a quite good opportunity when they had most of their troops surrounding Iran. But again Russia and China said no go. They are affraid that Iran will go jihad and declear war against any country supporting the US. And at the moment they'll have to back the US due to, again, money supply.

The same goes for North Korea. You don't start wars with countries who have insane leaders and nuclear technology in your own backyard.

Why do you think the BRICS alliance have arraived? So they in the future don't need to rely on the US.

Trust me the US doesn't care about other people in other countries, they only care about countries that are assets to them.

:D

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:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.

What people? Not these people...

Pro Gaddafi Rally....

(In the video description it says the voice is not Gaddafi's...???)

Recorded from

http://onlystream.net/FMS/webroot/ljbc.htm

Translation of Gaddafi's speech:

Translation of Gaddafi speech today, translation by Karim Budabuss:

The leader is talking now. He is saying that this is a historical day, and he is challenging Sarkozy, Cameron and Obama to switch on their TVs and watch the crowds and he is saying that they will find out that they are delusional because they entered a war which they never win, he also says if you continue targeting our houses we can do the same coz Europe is not far away but he said lets not do this and watch the crowds , kids and women. They are not here because i ordered them to, it is they are free will. in this war you are not facing me you are facing these crowds. I am nothing, if you want peace with Libyans, it is up to the crowds. If you want any thing , negotiate with the crowds. The regime is not Gaddafi regime, it is a Libyan regime . Even if many got scared, defected and escaped, the Libyans will remain, and each coward will be replaced with a hero. Is it a democracy to bomb the civilans, we don't want a democracy which comes with bombs. The socialist Jamahyria will win, the real democracy which serves the people. I advice you to stop bombing, and stop becoming merecenaries for some rebels. The Libyans said their words, they marched, their tribes made it clear that the future is for Libyans, the oil is for Libya, Libya is ours. You are delusional, a group of traitors convinced you that Libya is easy to get, you hired mercenaries , propaganda, sychological war all that didn't allow you to make any progress on the ground. Turn on ur TVs and watch the longest Libyan flag 4.5 km, I didn't make this flag, people donated to make this flag. Those rebels are no different from who betrayed Libyan during the Italian invasion. Libyan people go in millions without weapons to liberate the regions under rebel control. You Libyan people are the only one who can finish this war with a victory. If they want to negotiate we welcome that, otherwise we are continuing and they are definitely losing no matter how many weapons they drop with parachute to the rebels. We will not betrayed our history nor our children and their future. The glory is for you brave Libyans, the struggle will continue.

Translation from: http://www.facebook.com/VivaGaddafi

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:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.

The people in Syria have done the same and they are quite depressed that the world won't help them.

Why do you think that China and Russia voted veto? I wouldn't start a war in my own backyard either and also cut off a money supply?.

I know for a fact that the Russians have an arms deal agreement with Syria. This deal generates 6 billion dollars a year.

Why do you think the US haven't allready attacked Iran? They had a quite good opportunity when they had most of their troops surrounding Iran. But again Russia and China said no go. They are affraid that Iran will go jihad and declear war against any country supporting the US. And at the moment they'll have to back the US due to, again, money supply.

The same goes for North Korea. You don't start wars with countries who have insane leaders and nuclear technology in your own backyard.

Why do you think the BRICS alliance have arraived? So they in the future don't need to rely on the US.

Trust me the US doesn't care about other people in other countries, they only care about countries that are assets to them.

:D

The Syrian opposition group is just starting to get organized, in part with Turkey's help. Before that they were very divided. And based on opinions expressed by our own Syrian members they don't want any kind of Western help. The protesters want aid to make the Syrian government halt their attacks but I'm not sure they've formally asked for direct military intervention, at least not from NATO as a whole. I imagine they've been focusing their efforts on Turkey and members of the Arab League.

And you're right that business concerns do have Russia and China protecting the Syrian government. However do they get the blame for the continued violence? Nope. It's all the West's fault for not stepping in. China and Russia get a free ride but the West must be condemned for "only caring about oil". Of course if the West did get involved in Syria you'd have people screaming about how this is a crusade, a plan to set up an invasion of Iran, wanting to build an oil pipeline or something, ordered to do it by Israel, etc etc.

Yes the US only do things that is of benefit to them, just like every single country in the world. However it's only the US, and by extention the West, that gets condemned no matter what they do. It's a rather tiring double standard.

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Something has felt wrong to me about this whole Gaddafi/Libya episode from the beginning.

I feel the same.

I cant word it very well but I chose not to watch any footage of his death because I feel it would sadden me. And the news I have seen I found disturbing. I guess because I imagine his fear at being caught and about to be killed(and asking not to be killed), which made me feel sad for him.

Edited by Kazahel

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The Syrian opposition group is just starting to get organized, in part with Turkey's help. Before that they were very divided. And based on opinions expressed by our own Syrian members they don't want any kind of Western help. The protesters want aid to make the Syrian government halt their attacks but I'm not sure they've formally asked for direct military intervention, at least not from NATO as a whole. I imagine they've been focusing their efforts on Turkey and members of the Arab League.

And you're right that business concerns do have Russia and China protecting the Syrian government. However do they get the blame for the continued violence? Nope. It's all the West's fault for not stepping in. China and Russia get a free ride but the West must be condemned for "only caring about oil". Of course if the West did get involved in Syria you'd have people screaming about how this is a crusade, a plan to set up an invasion of Iran, wanting to build an oil pipeline or something, ordered to do it by Israel, etc etc.

Yes the US only do things that is of benefit to them, just like every single country in the world. However it's only the US, and by extention the West, that gets condemned no matter what they do. It's a rather tiring double standard.

The Syrian opposition group have tried and tried to organise, but gets killed before they can really do anything. Yes indeed they want the Arab league to help. The same thing did the Libyan people, but nothing happened. The only thing the Arab league will do is tell the Syrian government, just like they have done, that they should sit down with the oppostion group and figure things out. That's not going to happen, also Assad have criticised the Arab league for interfering.

I dont know if you are under the impression that Turkey is a member of the Arab league, but if that's the case i can tell that they are not. (Please don't bite my head of if i am wrong)

I have friends, which have family in Syria. I'm under the impression they want the UN to help get rid of Assad. If the UN decides to help, which they aren't, it would be NATO that will have the operating control. Just like in Libya, they didn't ask NATO but the UN.

Can you please divert me into the topic were Syrian members have expressed their beliefs, cant find it myself.

:D

Edited by Scepticus

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Turkey isn't part of the Arab League, that's why I mentioned them by name. They seem to be the main supporters of the opposition group though. And because the Arab League is divided about how to handle Syria they're never going to give the green light for military operations, which was one of the key factors for kicking off the Libyan campaign. Same with getting UN support. NATO did its very best to be open about going into Libya and getting not only local permission but also regional and world support. Even so there are many who condemn NATO for stepping in, saying they only wanted the oil they were already getting. Then these same people condemn NATO for not stepping in to deal with Syria. So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Given the UN track record they're not going to do much of anything to stop Assad. The only military group that seems able and willing to step in on matters like this is NATO and Russia, China, and Iran aren't going to let that happen. I think the best hope for the Syrian opposition group is for Turkey to get sick of what's going on and step in. They're not Arab but they'd be more welcome than a Western power.

Here's some topics where the Syrian protests have been talked about:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=208086

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=202937

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CNN,FOX,NBC announced yesterday that he had a stick and a knife stuck up his 3rd eye before he was executed by the rebels.

there is video of it somewhere which i don't want to see. :lol:

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CNN,FOX,NBC announced yesterday that he had a stick and a knife stuck up his 3rd eye before he was executed by the rebels.

there is video of it somewhere which i don't want to see. :lol:

I wonder if Obama will claim responsibility for that too? :P

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I don't know some Americans and Eastern European countries like Gaddafi?

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Oh right, so now the People actually loved gadaffi and it was all a Conspiracy by the U.S. to, oh, all the usual stuff I suppose.

yeah, i think I've seen enough here.

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Yesterday, I heard on TV people joking how Gaddafi was bald and how he wore a wig. They made jokes how his wig was probably glued onto his hat, like a 'halloween costume'. I really wanted to tell these people to their faces: "How high and mighty you are, making jokes about a dead man. How proper and regal you are, making fun of a man who was brutally murdered without a trial. No matter what he did, or the lives he had ruined, destroyed, and left in shambles, he was still a human being. Worthy of a trial just as you or I. How proud of yourself you must be. How witty you must think of yourselves."

I held no love and shed no tears for Gaddafi, but I also don't condone the mutilation or slander of the dead.

If you must kill your enemy, show some respect. They wouldn't be worth killing, otherwise.

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I feel the same.

I cant word it very well but I chose not to watch any footage of his death because I feel it would sadden me. And the news I have seen I found disturbing. I guess because I imagine his fear at being caught and about to be killed(and asking not to be killed), which made me feel sad for him.

Thanks.

I feel sad for the whole of Lybia. Their country has been wrecked.

Not by Gaddafi...he built it up...but by NATO and his internal rivals for power.

Who were used as willing puppets, IMO...and what a delightful bunch THEY turned

out to be !!!

Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama might not have been the ones to actually beat, abuse, sodomize and kill him.

But THEY are responsible.

In a court of law it's not just the Hit Man that gets prosecuted, it's the one who arranged and payed for it.

I expect it will all go pretty quiet on the MSM news front now...apart from the propaganda to keep 'reminding'

the tax paying public, who payed for it all.....how BAD Gaddafi was and how RIGHT we were.

Jeeeeezus...what a world we live in !

edit to add.......well said DeltaEcho

.

Edited by bee

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Yes the US only do things that is of benefit to them, just like every single country in the world. However it's only the US, and by extention the West, that gets condemned no matter what they do. It's a rather tiring double standard.

So the "benefit" from this military action was what, if not oil-related ?

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