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quillius

Pascagoula case

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yes, and apparently they said that it is difficult to 'act' as scared as he showed signs of.

And Hynek said he believed they were telling the truth (at least as they perceived it to be).

That's right, Hynek thought they were telling the truth and had probably had some kind of ET experience.

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That's right, Hynek thought they were telling the truth and had probably had some kind of ET experience.

Hey McG, this from my initial link~;

The next day Pascagoula was swarming with reporters, and Within 36 hours two scientists had flown in separately. One was James A Harder, a professor of engineering at the University of California Berkeley. Harder was also a consultant for Aerial Phenomena Research Organisation (APRO). The other was J. Allen Hynek, Northwestern University astronomer for 20 years (until 1969) the principle scientific consultant to the Air Force's Project Blue Book. They first both interviewed the men, later Harder would try to hypnotize the two, who were to shaken and distracted for the procedure to work. They had to interrupt the seance with Hickson because he showed an unbearable terror. Harder, a highly experimenter hypnotist, stated "I believe their story because of the absolute panic they showed during hypnotic regression. It is impossible that they could fake such a terror during hypnosis." All who dealt with Hickson and Parker in the aftermath of the encounter believed that the two men were in fact telling what they believed to be the truth. Before J. Allen Hynek left the next day, he told the press that the men were "absolutely honest... They have had a fantastic experience." At a later date, Hynek stated; "There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial".

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McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:

Hickson and Parker both subsequently passed lie detector tests. Hynek and Harder believed the two men's story. And Hynek was later quoted as saying "There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial".

This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

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McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:

This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

This article also says that Parker passed a lie detector test, although I don't know when it was. Hickson really was like Betty Hill in that he became obsessed with aliens and UFOs for the rest of his life and thought that they were still in contact with him. I never heard much of anything about Parker, though, who was so upset about this that he had a breakdown. I'll look around some more to see what I can find.

http://www.cosmostv.org/2011/09/charles-hickson-famous-for-claimed.html

This was some of the dialogue the police recorded when they were sitting along in the room, not knowing that they were being taped. It is disturbing, just like the Hill case. I don't believe that the Hills were lying and I never thought that Hickson and Parker were either. They had a real experience that shook them very badly.

Parker: "I got to get home and get to bed or get some nerve pills or see the doctor or something. I can't stand it. I'm about to go half crazy."

Hickson: "I tell you, when we're through, I'll get you something to settle you down so you can get some damn sleep."

Parker: "I can't sleep yet like it is. I'm just damn near crazy."

Hickson: "Well, Calvin, when they brought you out, when they brought me out of that thing, damn it I like to never in hell got you straightened out."

His voice rising, Parker said, "My damn arms, my arms, I remember they just froze up and I couldn't move. Just like I stepped on a damn rattlesnake."

"They didn't do me that way", sighed Hickson.

Now both men were talking as if to themselves.

Parker: "I passed out. I expect I never passed out in my whole life."

Hickson: "I've never seen nothing like that before in my life. You can't make people believe.

Parker: I don't want to keep sitting here. I want to see a doctor."

Hickson: "They better wake up and start believing. They better start believing.

Parker: "You see how that damn door come right up?"

Hickson: "I don't know how it opened, son. I don't know."

Parker: "It just laid up and just like that those son-of-b****es, just like that they come out."

Hickson: "I know. You can't believe it. You can't make people believe it."

Parker: "I paralyzed right then. I couldn't move."

Hickson: "They won't believe it. They going to believe it one of these days. Might be too late. I knew all along they was people from other worlds up there. I knew all along. I never thought it would happen to me."

Parker: "You know yourself I don't drink."

Hickson: "I know that, son. When I get to the house I'm going to get me another drink, make me sleep. Look, what we sitting around for. I got to go tell Blanche. What we waiting for?"

Parker: "I got to go to the house. I'm getting sick. I got to get out of here."

Hickson left the room, and Parker was alone.

Parker: "It's hard to believe. Oh God, it's awful. I know there's a God up there.

Read more: http://www.cosmostv.org/2011/09/charles-hickson-famous-for-claimed.html#ixzz1cPE911Vw

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McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:

This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

This 1974 article stated that they both took polygraph tests, and the police concluded they were telling the truth.

"They weren't lying," said Howard Ellzy, chief investigator for the Jackson County sheriff's department. "Whatever it was, it was real to them."

Ellzy's evaluation was later backed up by a polygraph test given both men."

http://www.noufors.com/alien_abductions.html

It also said that Parker had to be treated at a hospital for a complete physical and emotional breakdown.

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And I'm not a great believer in polygraph tests one way or the other, since they still cannot be used in most courts, although the police use them as an investigative tool rather than an actual "lie detector". They want to see how people react to the request that they be polygraphed, so basically it's a psychological thing, to see if the person is acting in a deceptive way. They didn't believe Hickson and Parker were lying.

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Hi SL,

the rest of that quote is here:

if you go back a page on this thread to post #13, there is some more info plus a link.

:tu:

HI Quillius

Can we double check this passage?

Subsequent investigation by Joe Eszterhas of Rolling Stone uncovered some additional information. The UFO landing site was in full view of two twenty-four hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, and the cameras showed nothing that night. But serious doubts can be cast on this late investigation: for example, it is also claimed that motorists from the nearby highway should have seen the blue light in the night and did not. This is plainly wrong, and Sherrif Diamond did respond to that, his office actually received three unnamed reports of motorists who did see the blue light where the two men were abducted, a few hundred yards from the highway.

Am I missing something here? What do motorists have to do with cameras? People watch the road, people look around, yes a person might have missed such a sighting, but a camera within range is constant surveillance. If it saw nothing, mate, nothing happened. I do not understand how the above pertains to CCTV, it does make sense, but it does with regards to other eyewitnesses though, I think it is entirely possible that this passage was deliberately written with just the right amount of ambiguity to make it appear more mysterious than it is.

Another major red flag I see is the continued contact. Were these men tested fro drugs? Several possibilities abound from a little fun through to a real time abduction but by nefarious people. I am really speculating wildly here, but maybe they saw something like NERVA and were drugged during the experience, such does not seem altogether beyond the realm of the craziness of the CIA. It might seem strange, but where abduction cases are concerned we see some more than strange surrounding circumstances pop up.

And yet again, money rears its ugly head:

Joe Eszterhas also exhumed a less than glorious episode in the career of Charles Hickson: he has been seemingly fired from his foreman position at Ingalls Shipyards, when colleagues revealed that on several occasions, when unable to give borrowed money back he offered promotions instead.

LINK

The 19 page evaluation by Phillip Klass is difficult to locate. I wonder if it is damaging.

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This is a map of Pascagoula, so I'm curious about whether the cameras from the shipyard or the highway really could have filmed the UFO. That depends on which highway they're talking about.

Charles-Hickson-and-Calvin-Parker-Pascagoula-Mississippi-map.gif

This Coast Guard station was also nearby and it did spot the UFO on radar, and also reported interference. This picture also shows the highway and the shipyard, although I'm not sure where the cameras were located in relation to the UFO.

aerial_river.jpg

Their sighting was on the west bank of the river, on a pier near an old industrial site.

"The Pascagoula alien abduction, also known as the Hickson/Parker alien abduction, allegedly occurred on the evening of October 11, 1973, when 42 year-old Charles Hickson and 19 year-old Calvin Parker, co-workers at Walker Shipyards, decided to go fishing at an abandoned industrial site, behind the old Schaupeter Shipyard building, on the west bank of the Pascagoula River."

http://www.factfictionandconjecture.ca/files/pascagoula.html

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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This is the site as it looks today:

Charles-Hickson-at-site.jpg

They were questioned at Keesler Air Force Base as well, despite denials by the Air Force that it no longer investigates UFOs. I think we know that's not really true.

Hickson-Keesler-Interrogation-doc.jpg

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HI Quillius

Am I missing something here? What do motorists have to do with cameras? People watch the road, people look around, yes a person might have missed such a sighting, but a camera within range is constant surveillance. If it saw nothing, mate, nothing happened. I do not understand how the above pertains to CCTV, it does make sense, but it does with regards to other eyewitnesses though, I think it is entirely possible that this passage was deliberately written with just the right amount of ambiguity to make it appear more mysterious than it is.

I think the tollbooths they are referring to must have been for the old draw bridge over the Pascagoula River, which has since been torn down and replaced with a new one.

http://www.pascagoula.net/Photo_Pages/Highrise/highrise.htm

This is a very small picture of the site as it looked in 1973.

pascagoula_pier.jpg

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Joe Eszterhas, who later became a Hollywood screenwriter for such films like Basic Instinct, admitted that he used to laugh at UFO reports until he saw one in 1997.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OToQSqrczyMC&pg=PT72&lpg=PT72&dq=Joe+Eszterhas+ufo&source=bl&ots=MWw7_5h2rg&sig=fOL9H8BGCjOQNchDE0SE7nYiL38&hl=en&ei=-32vTugKwoK2B-uiqJgC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

It seems he also got religion, too, at least as he got older.

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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Joe Eszterhas also exhumed a less than glorious episode in the career of Charles Hickson: he has been seemingly fired from his foreman position at Ingalls Shipyards, when colleagues revealed that on several occasions, when unable to give borrowed money back he offered promotions instead.

Your link also mentions that:

"Hickson and Parker went to work the next day. While at work they got a phone call from the Sheriff's Office, telling them to come down to the station because the place was crawling with reporters. Hickson asked the sheriff about his promise not to leak the story. The sheriff replied he didn't leak the story but someone in his dept. must have. While on the phone with the sheriff, Hickson's foreman, Johnny Walker, overheard the phone conversation and told Hickson to get a lawyer because he may get some money for his story. Walker took the liberty of contacting the company lawyer who also was his brother in law an attorney by the name of Joe Colingo. Colingo arrived to accompany his new clients to the sheriffs office. Sheriff Diamond told Colingo that his department did not have a polygraph machine. Meanwhile Hickson was concerned that himself and Parker might have gotten radiation poisoning from the object. They were taken by Colingo and Detective Tom Huntley to the hospital, where they were informed that the hospital did not have the equipment to test for radiation exposure.

Detective Huntley then contacted Keesler, and the group headed off to the Air Base where a group of doctors under security conditions examined Hickson and Parker. Their medical report indicates that both men were in a severe state of mental stress, due to a traumatic experience, and that the men's report is probably correct, and that no radiation exposure was found. Then the two were interrogated by the entire Base Command about the encounter. Later on that same afternoon Hickson, Parker, and Parkers father met Colingo in his office and drew up a contract. Debunkers later claimed this fact is proof that the story was a hoax, but to the contrary Hickson soon after fired Colingo for the reason the lawyer was only in on this to win some money, and they both did not approved.

In 1976, three years later, Dr. Bast of the Harvard Hospital of Detroit conducted further psychological tests with both men. He concluded that neither of them suffers from any psychotic behaviour, hysteria or brain damage. He could not find any evidence of a twin-madness syndrome, a behaviour in which a subject of madness can exert some contamination on another person."

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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I think the tollbooths they are referring to must have been for the old draw bridge over the Pascagoula River, which has since been torn down and replaced with a new one.

http://www.pascagoula.net/Photo_Pages/Highrise/highrise.htm

This is a very small picture of the site as it looked in 1973.

pascagoula_pier.jpg

Hi McGuffin

Thank you for the informative links, they paint an excellent picture of the terrain. I am only going with the description (as posted from Wikipedia) that says the cameras were in range of the sighting, I was thinking along the lines that even if they were not, surely we should still something like the Nellis footage? Where Quillius posted the rest of the passage, I could understand the eyewitness argument, perhaps even the tollbooth missing the event, for all we know there might have been two teenagers snogging in one of them at the time of the sighting, but cameras are always on the alert, I find the description ousting cameras as somewhat puzzling.

Cheers.

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Joe Eszterhas, who later became a Hollywood screenwriter for such films like Basic Instinct, admitted that he used to laugh at UFO reports until he saw one in 1997.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OToQSqrczyMC&pg=PT72&lpg=PT72&dq=Joe+Eszterhas+ufo&source=bl&ots=MWw7_5h2rg&sig=fOL9H8BGCjOQNchDE0SE7nYiL38&hl=en&ei=-32vTugKwoK2B-uiqJgC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

It seems he also got religion, too, at least as he got older.

I am not aware of his religious stance, but I have to give him a thumbs up for Basic Instinct. That classic scene with Sharon Stone will live forever. He deserves some leniency for that alone.

:devil:

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Your link also mentions that:

"Hickson and Parker went to work the next day. While at work they got a phone call from the Sheriff's Office, telling them to come down to the station because the place was crawling with reporters. Hickson asked the sheriff about his promise not to leak the story. The sheriff replied he didn't leak the story but someone in his dept. must have. While on the phone with the sheriff, Hickson's foreman, Johnny Walker, overheard the phone conversation and told Hickson to get a lawyer because he may get some money for his story. Walker took the liberty of contacting the company lawyer who also was his brother in law an attorney by the name of Joe Colingo. Colingo arrived to accompany his new clients to the sheriffs office. Sheriff Diamond told Colingo that his department did not have a polygraph machine. Meanwhile Hickson was concerned that himself and Parker might have gotten radiation poisoning from the object. They were taken by Colingo and Detective Tom Huntley to the hospital, where they were informed that the hospital did not have the equipment to test for radiation exposure.

Detective Huntley then contacted Keesler, and the group headed off to the Air Base where a group of doctors under security conditions examined Hickson and Parker. Their medical report indicates that both men were in a severe state of mental stress, due to a traumatic experience, and that the men's report is probably correct, and that no radiation exposure was found. Then the two were interrogated by the entire Base Command about the encounter. Later on that same afternoon Hickson, Parker, and Parkers father met Colingo in his office and drew up a contract. Debunkers later claimed this fact is proof that the story was a hoax, but to the contrary Hickson soon after fired Colingo for the reason the lawyer was only in on this to win some money, and they both did not approved.

In 1976, three years later, Dr. Bast of the Harvard Hospital of Detroit conducted further psychological tests with both men. He concluded that neither of them suffers from any psychotic behaviour, hysteria or brain damage. He could not find any evidence of a twin-madness syndrome, a behaviour in which a subject of madness can exert some contamination on another person."

Johnny Walker! Must be a great guy indeed! :D

With regards to the radiation poisoning, if they had it, I doubt very much the Government would admit it, as with the Cash Landrum case. I do feel that there were probably quite a few unsuspecting test subjects inadvertently involved with projects like NERVA. But on that very same flip side, these men do not seem to have many official people advising them that they really should take their case to the courts as with that precedent. So I think I just told myself I am barking up the wrong tree here.

And Psychological tests were done, but I still wonder of some drug might be involved. Perhaps some sort of chemical reaction from something at the shipyard, maybe an uncataloged to science as yet fungus, or spore that releases a Hallucinogen that makes people see things like Aliens and Bigfoot. Maybe just a fun boys night out. Probably not, and absolutely nothing to indicate that is the case here, but I do wonder if such is possible.

Interesting to say the least, it seems a shame that so many of these cases seem to have a possible shady scenario. I feel some may not be evaluated as well as they should be due to surrounding circumstances, but all in all, with this case I find the CCTV hard to resolve.

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This is the site as it looks today:

Charles-Hickson-at-site.jpg

They were questioned at Keesler Air Force Base as well, despite denials by the Air Force that it no longer investigates UFOs. I think we know that's not really true.

Hickson-Keesler-Interrogation-doc.jpg

Indeed it is not really true, if they get a call, and it could be a threat, they have to act. But I do not know that they are the forefront of modern ongoing investigation. Science has a sizable presence on that front regardless of the USAF stance. The Global situation demands it.

Great pic of the place! Quite an industry going on there.

Edited by psyche101

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And Psychological tests were done, but I still wonder of some drug might be involved. Perhaps some sort of chemical reaction from something at the shipyard, maybe an uncataloged to science as yet fungus, or spore that releases a Hallucinogen that makes people see things like Aliens and Bigfoot. Maybe just a fun boys night out. Probably not, and absolutely nothing to indicate that is the case here, but I do wonder if such is possible.

Interesting to say the least, it seems a shame that so many of these cases seem to have a possible shady scenario. I feel some may not be evaluated as well as they should be due to surrounding circumstances, but all in all, with this case I find the CCTV hard to resolve.

If these cases are real, and I think some of them are, then one possibility is as you say--that some branch of the government was behind it. We have definite indications of military interest in this case and in the Hill case, and a number of odd circumstances. I think something "real" did happen here, although we may never know what. It has different effects on people, too. I think it took years off the life of Barney Hill, for example, and caused Calvin Parker to have a breakdown.

Yet the same experiences turned Charles Hickson and Betty Hill into UFO enthusiasts and true believers in...well, something.

I wouldn't be able to explain either one of these cases as simply lying, hoaxing or fabrication.

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Posted (edited)

In response to the following from Psyche on another thread....

(going back over the thread it makes me miss McG)

Probably best to revive the old thread, but the camera in the shipyard is a massive hole to me. Also, Hickson was drunk when picked up, Parker admitted to fabricating at least part of the tale, and he refused to sit the polygraph.

There is no proof that a camera existed, let alone was operational or recording at the time, and most importantly that it was checked after the event.

I dont remember him refusing a polygraph? where did you see this mate?

and what part did Parker fabricate????

The cctv I had heard of when we discussed previously but the polygraph and fabrication are news to me.

going back over the thread...I really do find this case very compelling indeed. I also find the depiction of the being quite unique and fascinating when viewed in context of some of our previous conversations

edit to add: just remembered the 'fabrication' part you refer to is when he said he didnt really feint, yes?

Edited by quillius

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Please dont get me wrong here as I dont wish to detract from the OP's original post and I am not suggesting there is no evidence to support abductions, but I find it rather strange that this whole 'adbuction' thing seems to be an American phenonemon. Does anybody have any statistics as to how many adbuctions there are worldwide and not just in the USA?

Almost 4 million, this number for USA alone. This means that EVERY night, for the last 20 years, there were 548 abductions taking place, 11 average per US state.

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Almost 4 million, this number for USA alone. This means that EVERY night, for the last 20 years, there were 548 abductions taking place, 11 average per US state.

Have you a source for that figure please itsnotoutthere

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Posted (edited)

In response to the following from Psyche on another thread....

(going back over the thread it makes me miss McG)

Yeah, I had a soft spot for McG.

There is no proof that a camera existed, let alone was operational or recording at the time, and most importantly that it was checked after the event.

I find a few sources state that a Rolling Stone journalist uncovered the discrepancies, not only the cams, but 2 x 24 hour toll booths nearby. He did the checking according to several websites.

Subsequent investigation by Joe Esterhas of Rolling Stone uncovered some additional information. The UFO landing site was in full view of two twenty-four hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, and the cameras showed nothing that night.

LINK

2 sources that saw nothing that should have.

I dont remember him refusing a polygraph? where did you see this mate?

Where else :D Good old Uncle Phil!

Aviation journalist and UFO skeptic Philip J. Klass argued that there was reason to question the reliability of Hickson's lie detector exam, writing, The polygraph test was given to Hickson by a young operator, just out of school, who had not completed his formal training, who had not been certified by his own school and who had not taken a state licensing examination. Furthermore, that the lawyer for Hickson and Parker - who also was acting as their "booking agent" - had turned down the chance to have his clients tested WITHOUT CHARGE by the very experienced Capt. Charles Wimberly, chief polygraph operator from the nearby Mobile Police Dept. Also, that the lawyer did not contact other experienced polygraph operators close to Pascagoula. Instead, the lawyer had imported from New Orleans - more than 100 miles away - the young, inexperienced, uncertified, unlicensed operator who, by a curious coincidence, worked for a friend of the lawyer!

OK you got me it was his lawyer that made the announcement on his behalf. Which I see as the same thing though.

and what part did Parker fabricate????

The cctv I had heard of when we discussed previously but the polygraph and fabrication are news to me.

going back over the thread...I really do find this case very compelling indeed. I also find the depiction of the being quite unique and fascinating when viewed in context of some of our previous conversations

edit to add: just remembered the 'fabrication' part you refer to is when he said he didnt really feint, yes?

:tu:

In a later interview over 20 years after the initial incident, Parker's story became much more elaborate. Here Parker confessed to lying about fainting in sight of the creatures. He claimed that he was in fact conscious when the creatures took him on board the craft and led him into a room at the other end of a hallway to the left of the craft's entrance. He claims he was laid down on a sloped table and examined by a 'petite,' evidently female, being. Though he was paralyzed, he was able to observe the being inject a needle into the base of the underside of his penis. The being later communicated with him telepathically, suggesting that he had been taken for a reason

LINK

Which I have to say is starting to sounds more like a "wet dream" Abductee. I think that the abductee phenomena has more to do with sexual deviance than aliens.

The aliens seem rather strange to me, such a physiology would not be very stable under normal conditions, they seem top heavy, but if you can levitate people around the shop I guess that is probably not a real problem.

Edited by psyche101

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I find a few sources state that a Rolling Stone journalist uncovered the discrepancies, not only the cams, but 2 x 24 hour toll booths nearby. He did the checking according to several websites.

Subsequent investigation by Joe Esterhas of Rolling Stone uncovered some additional information. The UFO landing site was in full view of two twenty-four hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, and the cameras showed nothing that night.

LINK

2 sources that saw nothing that should have.

Gidday Psyche,

I have seen this in many places. I have not however seen this confirmed by Joe himself. We do not know when and if he even spoke to the booths operators, maybe he is basing it on the fact they never reported anything? If not where and when did he speak to them, did he confirm they were facing the right direction at the time (or were they possibly dealing with 'customers'???)..?

Also three seperate UFO reports came in from vehicles on that toll booth road...

The camera, when did he check it?> it also states within range....this doesnt mean it was pointing in that direction, or that it was recording at all or more importantly that he even checked it.

And all this befiore we even discuss Joe's future jobs and overall charachter and biases.

Where else :D Good old Uncle Phil!

Aviation journalist and UFO skeptic Philip J. Klass argued that there was reason to question the reliability of Hickson's lie detector exam, writing, The polygraph test was given to Hickson by a young operator, just out of school, who had not completed his formal training, who had not been certified by his own school and who had not taken a state licensing examination. Furthermore, that the lawyer for Hickson and Parker - who also was acting as their "booking agent" - had turned down the chance to have his clients tested WITHOUT CHARGE by the very experienced Capt. Charles Wimberly, chief polygraph operator from the nearby Mobile Police Dept. Also, that the lawyer did not contact other experienced polygraph operators close to Pascagoula. Instead, the lawyer had imported from New Orleans - more than 100 miles away - the young, inexperienced, uncertified, unlicensed operator who, by a curious coincidence, worked for a friend of the lawyer!

OK you got me it was his lawyer that made the announcement on his behalf. Which I see as the same thing though.

not only was it the lawyer, but it was the same Lawyer who was more interested in the money than the truth and was swiftly fired by the men, (note both the men asked for polygraphs soon after the event.) As for the experience of the 'young operator' this is irrelevant, I say this because polygraphs are always deemed as non-evidence so whether they pass or fail it doesnt give us much. It ceratinly doesnt work against the men, it only dismisses the results as a form of corroborating evidence...which would be shot down in minutes anyway.

In a later interview over 20 years after the initial incident, Parker's story became much more elaborate. Here Parker confessed to lying about fainting in sight of the creatures. He claimed that he was in fact conscious when the creatures took him on board the craft and led him into a room at the other end of a hallway to the left of the craft's entrance. He claims he was laid down on a sloped table and examined by a 'petite,' evidently female, being. Though he was paralyzed, he was able to observe the being inject a needle into the base of the underside of his penis. The being later communicated with him telepathically, suggesting that he had been taken for a reason

LINK

I think this one element of the story changing is easily accounted for when ego is brought into the equation, and whilst all other parts remain consistent it has no bearing IMO.

Which I have to say is starting to sounds more like a "wet dream" Abductee. I think that the abductee phenomena has more to do with sexual deviance than aliens.

The aliens seem rather strange to me, such a physiology would not be very stable under normal conditions, they seem top heavy, but if you can levitate people around the shop I guess that is probably not a real problem.

no comment :whistle::tu:

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Gidday Psyche,

I have seen this in many places. I have not however seen this confirmed by Joe himself. We do not know when and if he even spoke to the booths operators, maybe he is basing it on the fact they never reported anything? If not where and when did he speak to them, did he confirm they were facing the right direction at the time (or were they possibly dealing with 'customers'???)..?

Gidday Mate

I do not believe he is just saying "I heard nothing so nothing must have happened" He specifically states two sites, and the cameras hours of operation and how many were employed. That indicates investigation did happen. With toll booths, I do not see how a customer would make two people unable to observe an object, in fact the driver should also notice the object, how long does one stop at a toll booth? 5 seconds? 10? and it was at night, I do not know the area, but hard to imagine two toll booths very busy at night, and if they had people stopped, the cars also noticed nothing.

Honestly, I see it as a massive hole, two cameras and two people, nobody recorded a thing. That is 4 sources that come up empty that should not. If the cameras were not operational or not pointing in the right direction, this would have come up earlier when the Rolling Stone article was readily available. I find it impossible to believe that nobody would have thought of such until just now. Cameras are for security and run 24/7 if there was a problem with them, it would have been recorded, and because we have two toll booth operators that doubles the chances that the light would be seen.

Also three seperate UFO reports came in from vehicles on that toll booth road...

One of those is from 28 years later isn't it? And in that one, the craft description is different. And out of the fifteen witnesses, does a one of them mention a blue light? And did't they all report a saucer or dome shape when the men reported a cigar or fish shape? The craft could not be misidentified by the man because the corroborating witnesses all say dome or oval, and them men had a close up view and claimed it a cigar. If anyone had misidentified it it should be the witnesses who saw the object for moments and at distance as opposed to the men who were on the craft, as such, I find the recollections do not match up.

The camera, when did he check it?> it also states within range....this doesnt mean it was pointing in that direction, or that it was recording at all or more importantly that he even checked it.

If he was able to state:

"On the night of the abduction" he had to have viewed captured footage pertaining to the time frame. I do not know of any claims of missing footage or of distortions.

And all this befiore we even discuss Joe's future jobs and overall charachter and biases.

I find it to be a mixed story. Many people indicate him as having been in the film industry, but he was a screen writer, and in addition, he was a successful non-fiction novelist. To be perfectly honest, I do not really understand the sweatshirt thing at all, and I have wondered why it is brought up. He grossed about a billion dollars from his role in about 16 films, so he was hardly a struggling reporter in need of a fancy headline.

not only was it the lawyer, but it was the same Lawyer who was more interested in the money than the truth and was swiftly fired by the men, (note both the men asked for polygraphs soon after the event.) As for the experience of the 'young operator' this is irrelevant, I say this because polygraphs are always deemed as non-evidence so whether they pass or fail it doesnt give us much. It ceratinly doesnt work against the men, it only dismisses the results as a form of corroborating evidence...which would be shot down in minutes anyway.

But that does not explain why only one man initially took the polygraph, and why they never took Klass up on his offer. Nor does it explain why they used someone who was not qualified for the test. Polygraphs have only in the last ten years or so been deemed unreliable, at the time when it was new technology, many feared the lie detector. I feel it does work against the men as they never did rectify the situation, but promoted that it happened, - a deliberate half truth. If it had been re-run by Klass recommended operator, and remember there was no bill involved, then I think it would have been very hard to shoot down if the outcomes corroborated.

I think this one element of the story changing is easily accounted for when ego is brought into the equation, and whilst all other parts remain consistent it has no bearing IMO.

I find it proves he fabricated part of the story, which he did not like, and re-wrote later. If the men were scared as is portrayed, then one wonders what promoted him to lie at the time, his ego had already been shattered by a supposed higher intelligence. Also by admission, Hickson was drunk. Hickson was also in financial trouble, co-workers who had lent Hickson money and received a promotion as repayment can attest to this, and the place was swarming with reporters the next day, so what motivation would a scared man have for calling all this attention to himself if not money?

no comment :whistle::tu:

I think this case is a possible. An old man and a young man, old man gets drunk, perhaps spikes the young mans drink. Men are embarrassed, strange behaviour ensues. One man has a breakdown. I firmly believe that a decent percentage of abduction tales are centered around creepy uncles and unfulfilled people who have vivid dreams. It certainly would be one way of dealing with the violation of rape.

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Gidday Mate

I do not believe he is just saying "I heard nothing so nothing must have happened" He specifically states two sites, and the cameras hours of operation and how many were employed. That indicates investigation did happen. With toll booths, I do not see how a customer would make two people unable to observe an object, in fact the driver should also notice the object, how long does one stop at a toll booth? 5 seconds? 10? and it was at night, I do not know the area, but hard to imagine two toll booths very busy at night, and if they had people stopped, the cars also noticed nothing.

Honestly, I see it as a massive hole, two cameras and two people, nobody recorded a thing. That is 4 sources that come up empty that should not. If the cameras were not operational or not pointing in the right direction, this would have come up earlier when the Rolling Stone article was readily available. I find it impossible to believe that nobody would have thought of such until just now. Cameras are for security and run 24/7 if there was a problem with them, it would have been recorded, and because we have two toll booth operators that doubles the chances that the light would be seen.

Morning buddy,

Ok firstly the toll booths, he states that neither operator ‘reported’ anything not that they stated ‘they saw nothing’. We have nothing showing the line of site and whether any trees or other obstructions where there. We would have to draw the lines form the booths to exact spot of landing to confirm that the exact spot was actually clearly visible. If we do this we then have the problem of the operators may have their backs to the landing site making a visual very unlikely unless something made them look that way...and seeing as it was a silent hum I am not sure why they would have turned around to be able to see object...that is of course assuming they didn’t see anything.

As for the cameras, again there is nothing to indicate if they were pointing in that direction or if they were on and recording. Also how long are the recordings held for? When did Joe investigate? Did they allow him access to view the tapes? Would Klass really have missed this prime ‘debunk’ opportunity? Doubtful, Klass seemed far better than that IMO.

One thing to note I have seen time lines which indicate that Joes investigation happened long after the event itself (possibly a couple of years) but I will need to confirm this.

All I have seen is the same paragraph regarding ‘Joes subsequent investigation’ (also note the word ‘subsequent’) they are all from one source as the wording is always the same....I would like proof of how and when he carried out this investigation...otherwise it is a worthless attempt at a fancy headline (more about this in a while)

One of those is from 28 years later isn't it? And in that one, the craft description is different. And out of the fifteen witnesses, does a one of them mention a blue light? And did't they all report a saucer or dome shape when the men reported a cigar or fish shape? The craft could not be misidentified by the man because the corroborating witnesses all say dome or oval, and them men had a close up view and claimed it a cigar. If anyone had misidentified it it should be the witnesses who saw the object for moments and at distance as opposed to the men who were on the craft, as such, I find the recollections do not match up.

it isn’t 15 witnesses, the 15 number is derived form previous days sightings and not on the actual day. And yes as per the below text a ‘blue’ light was spoken about by witnesses.

Also note the few hundred yards from the interstate comment, how far were the toll booths?

As the men were still in the Sheriff's office, a former pilot called and stated he saw a UFO at about 08:00pm near the Pascagoula River. A city former city counsellor and several other people also reported later to report their sighting.

Three different people have phoned the Sheriff's office to report their observation of a strange blue light in the area where the two men were abducted. These people remained anonymous, they were driving on the Interstate 90 a few hundred yards from the abduction's location that night.

28 years later a witness comes forward, according to the newspaper "Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal" of October 21, 2001. It even seems reasonable to think that this witness is one of the three people in the car on Route 90 as mentioned above, this time the witness gave his name.

If he was able to state:

"On the night of the abduction" he had to have viewed captured footage pertaining to the time frame. I do not know of any claims of missing footage or of distortions.

I find it to be a mixed story. Many people indicate him as having been in the film industry, but he was a screen writer, and in addition, he was a successful non-fiction novelist. To be perfectly honest, I do not really understand the sweatshirt thing at all, and I have wondered why it is brought up. He grossed about a billion dollars from his role in about 16 films, so he was hardly a struggling reporter in need of a fancy headline.

He was struggling at the time. He was fired in 1971 by his previous journalistic employment because of an article written and then went to work for rolling stone magazine...obviously over eager to impress with a big headline, the Pascagoula case became big news soon after the event...a perfect candidate for a big scoop. Also note he was quite upfront about his disbelief in UFO’s and the ridicule he would approach the subject with...any bias present?

But that does not explain why only one man initially took the polygraph, and why they never took Klass up on his offer. Nor does it explain why they used someone who was not qualified for the test. Polygraphs have only in the last ten years or so been deemed unreliable, at the time when it was new technology, many feared the lie detector. I feel it does work against the men as they never did rectify the situation, but promoted that it happened, - a deliberate half truth. If it had been re-run by Klass recommended operator, and remember there was no bill involved, then I think it would have been very hard to shoot down if the outcomes corroborated.

Again the Lawyer was the driving force behind the test and the circus act that followed. The pair turned down lucrative offers and promptly fired the Lawyer. They avoided fame and any debt that Hickson had could not be motive as no money was made until over 10 years later when writing his book. I have seen nowhere that proves tests were ever refused by the individuals, all I have seen is a willingness to have the tests so they could prove they were telling the truth

I find it proves he fabricated part of the story, which he did not like, and re-wrote later. If the men were scared as is portrayed, then one wonders what promoted him to lie at the time, his ego had already been shattered by a supposed higher intelligence. Also by admission, Hickson was drunk. Hickson was also in financial trouble, co-workers who had lent Hickson money and received a promotion as repayment can attest to this, and the place was swarming with reporters the next day, so what motivation would a scared man have for calling all this attention to himself if not money?

Many sites fail to mention Hicksons 20 months of hand to hand combat in Korea, so ego definitely played a part IMO. What other discrepencies have been found in the story? None that I am aware of, and this one little snippet is accounted for and has no major impact on the other more significant parts that have remained consistent. The part about motive and money was covered above

I think this case is a possible. An old man and a young man, old man gets drunk, perhaps spikes the young mans drink. Men are embarrassed, strange behaviour ensues. One man has a breakdown. I firmly believe that a decent percentage of abduction tales are centered around creepy uncles and unfulfilled people who have vivid dreams. It certainly would be one way of dealing with the violation of rape.

I don’t think this is the case myself as too many pointers say otherwise.

My personal opinion or should I say the one possible that doesn’t involve ET would be that there was a UFO (plasma) the EMF enduced hallucinations occurred. The time in-between reporting it meant that false memories could be created and the stories ended up similar hence the same ‘beings’ reported.

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Hickson's foreman overheard the Hickson's side of the conversation, and asked what had occurred. Hickson related his story to the foreman and to shipyard owner Johnny Walker. After hearing the tale, Walker suggested that Hickson and Parker contact Joe Colingo, a locally prominent attorney (who was Walker's brother-in-law and also represented the shipyard).

lens2206170_1229463839Charles-Hickson-and-Calvin-Parker-TV-1973.jpgColingo met the men, and, during their conversation, Hickson expressed fears about having been exposed to radiation. Colingo and detective Tom Huntley then took Parker and Hickson to a local hospital, which lacked the facilities for a radiation test. (Clark's book does not make clear if Huntley is a police detective or a private detective.) From the hospital, the men went to Keesler Air Force Base, where they were examined extensively by several doctors. Afterward, reported Huntley, Parker and Hickson were interviewed by the military intelligence chief of the base, with the "whole base command" observing the proceedings. (Clark, 448)

Colingo drew up a contract to represent Hickson and Parker. However, nothing came of this, and Hickson would later have nothing to do with Colingo, charging the lawyer with base financial motivations: Colingo, said Hickson, "just wanted to make a buck." (Clark, 449)

this is also quite interesting:

So Calingo was the brother inlaw of the shipyards owner. If Joe had investigated soon after and it really did become apparent that the cameras were pointing towards the site (not just within range) then why would the owner suggest his brother inlaw represent them? If he knew it was a lie why not conceal the evidence that proves they were lying? instead he shows it to Joe? unlikely....what is likely though is once they fired Colingo the shipyard owner had a bone to pick with them and could easily have said to Joe when he sniffed around that the videos showed nothing so the men were lying.

highly possible, yes?

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