Ancient Aliens: Facts and Fiction

[kmt_sesh]

I guess no one knows for shur how slow time will go. Stephen Hawking has a much differnt opininon than you. ''20 days each way for a total of 40 days near the speed of light, 1 year 235 days would have passed on Earth.'' who did the math on this?

With respect to you and Dr. Hawking, who is one of the most brilliant men of our age, this has nothing to do with the biblical Exodus. Numbers 32:13 describes how Yahweh made the Hebrews "wander in the desert forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone." This has nothing to do with the speed of light, a concept that of course was not known to people living in the Late Bronze Age. Nowhere does Moses talk about going in a space ship, at no time does Moses equate his travel or the travels of his fellow Hebrews in terms of astrophysics. We are told that Moses was "a hundred and twenty years old when he died" (Deuteronomy 34:7), and nowhere is there even a suggestion that this number should be thought of allegorically or in terms of physics.

Did people live to be 120 years old in those days? Of course not. Almost no one does today. DId the Hebrews wander the wilderness for forty years? Quite unlikely, but then again there is no extra-biblical evidence that the events of Exodus even occurred in the first place. You're following the techniques of alien interventionists, who clearly twist historical evidence beyond its limits to invent uncorroborated scenarios.

[karmakazi]

john 18:36 Jesus stats ''My kingdom is not of this world.''

Jesus speaks of the kingdom being WITHIN not WITHOUT. He states you cannot specify where it is, it is not in the sky or the sea or some place you can go to, find or point to.

One thing I have always wondered is if aliens came and taught the ancients how to do amazing things like build the pyramids, blahdy, blahdy, blah - if they came and taught us so much, what happened to all that knowledge? I mean, they must not have done a very good job of instilling us with so much precious knowledge - because it took us quite a long freaking time to get where we are.

So whats up with that? Were the egyptians too stupid to retain and do anything with the knowledge they gained? Were they only interested in lunch and recess? Why didn't the aliens teach us something other than pyramid building? Kind of a narrow skill set don't you think?

Did the aliens get a pat on the back when they returned home? I'd have been p***ed if I were the underwriters of that little experiment, honestly. "What? You traveled across the universe, taking up untold resources, and you taught them to do what? Make pyramids?" Somebody's ass should have been in the grinder for that, I think. What about teaching us that war and pestilence and greed are crappy ways to run a planet? What about altering our DNA so we aren't so inherently screwed up and selfish as a species?

If aliens came and visited us, they did a crappy job of it. I want my money back.

One idea is that they gave us the keys to civilization - took humans from being nomadic wanderers to people who farmed and built homes, helped us develop language and writing, basically organized us and taught us. The later result (probably after they were gone) would have been humans having the capability to concieve the building of the pyramids but that would have happened much later. That's just a thought based on the gods of various mythologies being described as teaching or being "in charge of" aspects of civilization.

I tend to doubt that it is a question of luck. As all previous decimating of humanity has shown, shortly after an disaster there might be less but not less sapient humans. The level of technological achievement (unless limited to a certain geographical area) remains.

What I can't conceive is that there should be a civilization 20-30 kiloyears more advanced than ours. After all, the same physical, chemical and biological processes that apply for us apply for them (even if the optical end result is much different). No matter what part of human evolution you try to abridge: the result would not be a civilization.

Your post made me think of a couple of things - the first is, what would our development have been like had we not had religions? This obviously wouldn't leap us really far ahead or anything, but if the church had not spent so much time pushing ideas like the flat earth and that any practice like alchemy was evil, could we have advanced a little farther than where we are today?

The other thing is that in the theory, aliens supposedly came and advanced mankind, genetically, through gifts of knowledge or both. (and there are those who say they are still doing so, secretly, to our governments)

If it were true that they had unnaturally advanced us, then comparatively it would have taken their own development even longer than ours. In that, the AA theory trips itself up by making it more difficult for it to be plausible.

Edited March 20, 2012 by karmakazi

[kmt_sesh]

seems all of you have missed something.

Yes, I've missed most of the episodes of Ancient Aliens. This has helped me to prevent brain damage.

I do admit to watching some episodes, however. I just wanted to see what the fuss was about, so I suppose quite a few brain cells were sacrificed in the effort.

[karmakazi]

Yes, I've missed most of the episodes of Ancient Aliens. This has helped me to prevent brain damage.

I do admit to watching some episodes, however. I just wanted to see what the fuss was about, so I suppose quite a few brain cells were sacrificed in the effort.

You know, I watch that show but it's for only one reason - it cracks me up when Giorgio says "ancient texts" with so much enthusiasm and spittle.

Also, the hair and spray tan.

[questionmark]

Your post made me think of a couple of things - the first is, what would our development have been like had we not had religions? This obviously wouldn't leap us really far ahead or anything, but if the church had not spent so much time pushing ideas like the flat earth and that any practice like alchemy was evil, could we have advanced a little farther than where we are today?

The other thing is that in the theory, aliens supposedly came and advanced mankind, genetically, through gifts of knowledge or both. (and there are those who say they are still doing so, secretly, to our governments)

If it were true that they had unnaturally advanced us, then comparatively it would have taken their own development even longer than ours. In that, the AA theory trips itself up by making it more difficult for it to be plausible.

The prohibition of the practice of whatever at max retarded the humans in certain geographic areas during a few centuries, in others science just continued as before. Most notably when it was relegated to the monasteries in Europe it was practiced freely in the Islamic world and India. The discoveries made there came back to Europe in the 12-13th centuries. Nothing was lost there... except some freedom in Europe.

If you wonder why scientist of the age are called Jabbir ibn Hallaban or Ali ibn Sina that is why. With Islam getting more rigorous( to not say closed minded fanatic) Christianism got more liberal and science came back. At the time it could advance neither in the Muslim nor in the Christian sphere of influence it went to India, where great advances in math and astronomy were made between the 4th and 11th century.

The Ancient Aliens BS is but a Ersatzreligion. Just as in religion the saints and angels advance humanity in the Daniken, Sitchin and younamewho drivel it is the aliens. And seemingly, as it is pretty difficult for the guild of quacks to hijack real religion, they prefer to create some superstition to establish themselves as the "spiritual guide".

[Abramelin]

seems all of you have missed something.

Yeah, but it wasn't you.

[Sensible Logic]

I guess no one knows for shur how slow time will go. Stephen Hawking has a much differnt opininon than you. ''20 days each way for a total of 40 days near the speed of light, 1 year 235 days would have passed on Earth.'' who did the math on this?

You're right, I erred in the math and I'm big enough to admit when I make mistakes. It should be 2 years 70 days. Still it shows the time to be far less than you believe.

Lets look at it in terms of distance in miles. Light moves at roughly 186,000 miles per second. Do the math and in 1 year, light travels over 6 trillion miles. An object 20 light years away would be more than 120 trillion miles from Earth. Now you get in your space ship and are just zooming along at the speed of light. Again do the math. In one day you would have traveled over 16 billion miles and in 20 days over 321 billion miles. Far short of the 120 trillion miles necessary to reach that object 20 light years from Earth.

It wasn't my opinion but what I found through research. Since you brought Hawking into this, here is an article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1269288/STEPHEN-HAWKING-How-build-time-machine.html

It is Hawking talking about time travel to the future with a ship that approaches the speed of light. Here is part of what he said:

If we want to travel into the future, we just need to go fast. Really fast. And I think the only way we're ever likely to do that is by going into space. The fastest manned vehicle in history was Apollo 10. It reached 25,000mph. But to travel in time we'll have to go more than 2,000 times faster. And to do that we'd need a much bigger ship, a truly enormous machine. The ship would have to be big enough to carry a huge amount of fuel, enough to accelerate it to nearly the speed of light. Getting to just beneath the cosmic speed limit would require six whole years at full power.

If you note the last part, you have to travel for 6 years just to get close to the speed of light. Based on that, you would not hop in your ship and travel for 20 days in each direction at the speed of light as you wouldn't even get close to that speed in that time.

[danydandan]

Sorry I said the human race was ignorant. But if there is an planet out there with intelligent life on it. Whats wrong with knowing where its at? I dont get it??

There is nothing wrong with knowing where it is , you were argueing that the human race is a young race (species ,rather)

But seeing as we know of no other highly intelligent forms of life how can one say we are a young self a ware inteligent species???

Please do not go around calling people ignorant its not nice... Even they are ignorant to the crap you seem to be posting

[Swede]

Yes, I've missed most of the episodes of Ancient Aliens. This has helped me to prevent brain damage.

I do admit to watching some episodes, however. I just wanted to see what the fuss was about, so I suppose quite a few brain cells were sacrificed in the effort.

Kmt - Based upon Tom's own (rare) sourcing, this would appear to be one the bases for his "position". Do not mean to stress your tolerance level (!).

http://www.piney.com/RMPiney.html

A brief follow-up on Sublett is rather telling.

.

[The optimist Mr. Nickell]

You're right, I erred in the math and I'm big enough to admit when I make mistakes. It should be 2 years 70 days. Still it shows the time to be far less than you believe.

Lets look at it in terms of distance in miles. Light moves at roughly 186,000 miles per second. Do the math and in 1 year, light travels over 6 trillion miles. An object 20 light years away would be more than 120 trillion miles from Earth. Now you get in your space ship and are just zooming along at the speed of light. Again do the math. In one day you would have traveled over 16 billion miles and in 20 days over 321 billion miles. Far short of the 120 trillion miles necessary to reach that object 20 light years from Earth.

It wasn't my opinion but what I found through research. Since you brought Hawking into this, here is an article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1269288/STEPHEN-HAWKING-How-build-time-machine.html

It is Hawking talking about time travel to the future with a ship that approaches the speed of light. Here is part of what he said:

If you note the last part, you have to travel for 6 years just to get close to the speed of light. Based on that, you would not hop in your ship and travel for 20 days in each direction at the speed of light as you wouldn't even get close to that speed in that time.

I know what im talking about bro and yes he goes on to say that when you are at light speed a year will pass on earth for every day........ Don't make me repeat my self please. If you don't know your facts don't reply. And were not talking about us. Yes would take six years. Now this is the real question for you. How long before were capable of building a vessel capable of reaching light speed?..... By the time we figure out a way to travel at light speed there won't be fossil fuels left on this plant. Were talking about a civilization that have burned through there rocket fuel WAY!!! Before we even came outta the ice age. There using some natural gas or a perpetual energy of some kind. Which is what we need to be working on. This is engineering that we can't wrap are minds around. Zero to light speed in seconds. this is for any else reading this. If your in your car taveling at the speed of light and you turn your headlights on what happens? you have to think fourth dimensional Edited March 21, 2012 by The optimist Mr. Nickell

[Abramelin]

I know what im talking about bro and yes he goes on to say that when you are at light speed a year will pass on earth for every day........ Don't make me repeat my self please. If you don't know your facts don't reply. And were not talking about us. Yes would take six years. Now this is the real question for you. How long before were capable of building a vessel capable of reaching light speed?..... By the time we figure out a way to travel at light speed there won't be fossil fuels left on this plant. Were talking about a civilization that have burned through there rocket fuel WAY!!! Before we even came outta the ice age. There using some natural gas or a perpetual energy of some kind. Which is what we need to be working on. This is engineering that we can't wrap are minds around. Zero to light speed in seconds. this is for any else reading this. If your in your car taveling at the speed of light and you turn your headlights on what happens? you have to think fourth dimensional

You don't know what you are talking about, you just had a captivating daydream.

We all have those, sometimes, but we don't use them as 'proof'.

But I like this English guy, "John Searl".

He had crazy dreams when he was a young boy, later on he invented engines based on his dreams, and now people are fighting his dreams and ideas.... and inventions. The fckg BBC even showed his 'flying saucer' flying at 3500 miles per hour though the British skies.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Tell me guys, what would you consider to be a proof of ancient aliens?

1. Art

2. Historic notes

3. Out of place artifact

4. Something else (mention what)

Just curious.

[questionmark]

Tell me guys, what would you consider to be a proof of ancient aliens?

1. Art

2. Historic notes

3. Out of place artifact

4. Something else (mention what)

Just curious.

I guess bringing one by the hand who shows a film of the building of the pyramids would suffice...

[Harte]

First let me say that research should be your best friend. From what I have found it seems that the speed of light has 1:20 ratio. That means that 1 year traveling near the speed of light would equal 20 years on Earth.

Sorry, sensible, but if your reached the speed of light, an infinite number of years would pass on Earth (assuming time is infinite.)

If time's not infinite, then all of ther years (however many there are) would pass on Earth while the barest instant would pass for you.

Harte

[kmt_sesh]

Tell me guys, what would you consider to be a proof of ancient aliens?

1. Art

2. Historic notes

3. Out of place artifact

4. Something else (mention what)

Just curious.

1. Irrefutable proof of alien-craft wreckage.

2. Irrefutable proof of alien physical remains (i.e., dead alien body).

3. Remains or evidence of technology irrefutably not terrestrial in origin.

In other words, it would have to be so painfully obvious that everyone could agree on it. Not just half-baked loons like the folks on Ancient Aliens or their fawning acolytes and fans, but scientists and historians and other pragmatically skeptical people, too.

But of course, nothing even close to this has ever happened.

[kmt_sesh]

I guess bringing one by the hand who shows a film of the building of the pyramids would suffice...

Aliens built them with levitating geysers, did they not?

Hmm, sounds like a future episode of Ancient Aliens.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I guess bringing one by the hand who shows a film of the building of the pyramids would suffice...

[Big Bad Voodoo]

1. Irrefutable proof of alien-craft wreckage.

2. Irrefutable proof of alien physical remains (i.e., dead alien body).

3. Remains or evidence of technology irrefutably not terrestrial in origin.

In other words, it would have to be so painfully obvious that everyone could agree on it. Not just half-baked loons like the folks on Ancient Aliens or their fawning acolytes and fans, but scientists and historians and other pragmatically skeptical people, too.

But of course, nothing even close to this has ever happened.

So lets say that aliens did visit earth in the past. And that they evolve before us and tech before us. So they are advanced.

Do you realy think that they will leave broken craft or dead buddy. Who said that their craft needs to be repair, and why would one alien been dead? Lets say that they didnt leave their tech.I mean I hardly beleive if some have tech for inter galaxy travel or dimensional travel that their craft will be broken or that they will be killed on our planet.

So teoreticaly that could be possible. Right? So...what would humans do if they saw them aand they dont have camera, mobiles, photo.

Or draw them or wrote about them. But who cares about few art and historical record. I understand that peeps dont believe in that kind of "things". Its psychology. I have few situation in my life which are normal and quite possible to happen to everyone. Yet when you talk about them people dont want to belive you. Its redicule. Few people do believe but thats a realy minority. So you stop talking those kinds of story because you dont want that people think you are wierd or something.

You have criteria that if they ever visted earth you wouldnt believe if you saw them with own eyes.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I highly doubt that arrow could destory MIG29 or Suhoi.

[kmt_sesh]

So lets say that aliens did visit earth in the past. And that they evolve before us and tech before us. So they are advanced.

Do you realy think that they will leave broken craft or dead buddy. Who said that their craft needs to be repair, and why would one alien been dead? Lets say that they didnt leave their tech.I mean I hardly beleive if some have tech for inter galaxy travel or dimensional travel that their craft will be broken or that they will be killed on our planet.

So teoreticaly that could be possible. Right? So...what would humans do if they saw them aand they dont have camera, mobiles, photo.

Or draw them or wrote about them. But who cares about few art and historical record. I understand that peeps dont believe in that kind of "things". Its psychology. I have few situation in my life which are normal and quite possible to happen to everyone. Yet when you talk about them people dont want to belive you. Its redicule. Few people do believe but thats a realy minority. So you stop talking those kinds of story because you dont want that people think you are wierd or something.

You have criteria that if they ever visted earth you wouldnt believe if you saw them with own eyes.

These kinds of debates are always prefaced by "what if" or "let's say" or "theoretically." To me that's not a realistic historical possibility--it's only a mind game. It's really no more historically valid than saying, "What if the Minoans had never fallen and the Mycenaeans never took over" or "What if the Persians won at Marathon or Salamis?" At least that latter two are reasonable and realistic questions to consider, but aliens? I don't mean any disrespect and it's obvious where I sit on this issue, but I don't consider alien visitation the least but realistic. There is simply no evidence whatsoever to consider it valid.

Is alien visitation even theoretically possible? If we're using the proper usage of the term "theoretical," then no, it's not. Properly put, a theory is a line of inquiry that's founded on at least some probative, evidentiary criteria. Alien visitation lacks this, so it's not a theory. It's not really even hypothetical. It's merely a mind game.

To be frank, I genuinely do believe that an alien race so advanced that it can travel the cosmos, come to earth, live here long enough to influence mankind and the course of civilization, would indeed have to leave some presence of itself behind. In my mind it would be impossible for aliens not to have done so. Perhaps my example of the wreckage of alien spacecraft is an exaggeration. I'll concede that. And perhaps even an alien who died would be taken back by it's alien kin. Again, this is merely science-fiction mind games, but I concede it. But we should think all traces of a super-advanced alien race vanished from the face of the earth? No, it's neither logical nor possible. Look at the history of prehistoric humans. Mankind left behind everything from midden heaps to coprolites in caves, only to be found by present-day archaeologists. This is how reality works.

I realize I'm pretty "militant" when it comes to the whole alien thing, but I do find it fairly ridiculous. I guess that's why I tend to be reactionary. I see no reason to reinvent history or to take away ancient man's great achievements and ascribe them to aliens. I am not aware of any proof for aliens, but at the same time I am quite aware of the ample evidence for mankind's achievements and history. I've said it many times: pretty much anything I've seen the Ancient Alien crowd ascribe to aliens already has a perfectly terrestrial and logical explanation, when examined and researched properly. Be it a megalithic construct or a depiction on an ancient temple or tomb wall, aliens had nothing to do with it.

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

ahh you ppl are talking to much . but aint saying anything..

who said u have to travel with lightspeed? from milky way to milky way or from planet to planet to reach our world?

what if those aliens comes from another dimension? blink and boOom they are here !!! SAY hello to my little grey friend, with big eyesss. HELLLOOOOOOOOOOO ..

Nobody believes in democratie( democracy) anymore =(.

if u do ..

let us vote ..

1 = believe in aliens

2 = u dont believe in aliens

so stop wasting your time arguing .. democracy (votes) (time) will tell us who is right or wrong.

i am sure that, that day will come .. HELLLLLLOOOOOOO ....my little grey friend.. i have always believed that the truth is out there .. so please dont hurt mee !

i vote ( 1 ).. i believe in aliens .

dont ask me why and wheres the proooof. .. i dont wanna go in circles..just vote

[kmt_sesh]

ahh you ppl are talking to much . but aint saying anything..

who said u have to travel with lightspeed? from milky way to milky way or from planet to planet to reach our world?

what if those aliens comes from another dimension? blink and boOom they are here !!! SAY hello to my little grey friend, with big eyesss. HELLLOOOOOOOOOOO ..

Nobody believes in democratie( democracy) anymore =(.

if u do ..

let us vote ..

1 = believe in aliens

2 = u dont believe in aliens

so stop wasting your time arguing .. democracy (votes) (time) will tell us who is right or wrong.

i am sure that, that day will come .. HELLLLLLOOOOOOO ....my little grey friend.. i have always believed that the truth is out there .. so please dont hurt mee !

i vote ( 1 ).. i believe in aliens .

dont ask me why and wheres the proooof. .. i dont wanna go in circles..just vote

Voting doesn't determine facts, it only demonstrates personal opinions. But for the record I decidedly vote #2.

However, I didn't begin this thread so that it could become a personal opinion poll. Those don't really accomplish much.

Editing to add: Rude of me to have missed this, but welcome to UM, WhyDontYouBeliEveMe.

Edited March 21, 2012 by kmt_sesh

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

ahh you ppl are talking to much . but aint saying anything..

who said u have to travel with lightspeed? from milky way to milky way or from planet to planet to reach our world?

what if those aliens comes from another dimension? blink and boOom they are here !!! SAY hello to my little grey friend, with big eyesss. HELLLOOOOOOOOOOO ..

Nobody believes in democratie( democracy) anymore =(.

if u do ..

let us vote ..

1 = believe in aliens

2 = u dont believe in aliens

so stop wasting your time arguing .. democracy (votes) (time) will tell us who is right or wrong.

i am sure that, that day will come .. HELLLLLLOOOOOOO ....my little grey friend.. i have always believed that the truth is out there .. so please dont hurt mee !

i vote ( 1 ).. i believe in aliens .

dont ask me why and wheres the proooof. .. i dont wanna go in circles..just vote

I vote number two,and for the record i don't believe in travel between dimensions either.I just don't think it's possible,if i stepped into another dimension i would die straight away...

Just my personal belief.

[cormac mac airt]

I vote for #3: NOT to hi-jack someone elses thread to make it about what you want to talk about.

cormac

[kmt_sesh]

I vote for #3: NOT to hi-jack someone elses thread to make it about what you want to talk about.

cormac

Yes, that's a suitable option. We should add that to the list.

I don't like opinion polls because invariably you get a whole lot of people popping in to vote, but almost no useful or productive discussion.

I for one prefer substance.