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zoser

The Zimbabwe Incident 1994.

143 posts in this topic

I'm quite certain that quite a few people may not have heard of these cases and so I thought I would post one more today. From youtube:

On 14th September, 1994, a UFO streaked across the sky over Southern Africa. Two days later, something landed in a schoolyard in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, with three or four things beside it, according to journalist Cynthia Hind. This was witnessed by 62 schoolchildren, who had little or no exposure to TV or popular press accounts of UFOs. Cynthia Hind interviewed them the day after the encounter and made them draw pictures of what they had seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HScN3usfNoc

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I've read a bit about this case before, but I hadn't seen any of the interviews. The kids are a bit difficult to read. If there is any truth to lie detection with eye movements referenced by Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP), portions of the accounts appear to include genuine memories but the majority appear to be constructed.

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I've read a bit about this case before, but I hadn't seen any of the interviews. The kids are a bit difficult to read. If there is any truth to lie detection with eye movements referenced by Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP), portions of the accounts appear to include genuine memories but the majority appear to be constructed.

Why would so many pre-teen children want to stage a mass lie? To what end? Although the children's seprate accounts may I'm guessing vary in detail the general picture holds consistent.

Edited by zoser

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PS here is the link to the full documentary of which the above clip is a part; looks very interesting and I plan to watch it later with my wife.

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Why would so many pre-teen children want to stage a mass lie? To what end? Although the children's seprate accounts may I'm guessing vary in detail the general picture holds consistent.

I wouldn't possibly be able to answer as to why, but the story about the little boy who cried wolf comes to mind. I was just pointing out what I noticed. Plus, I don't know how accurate NLP actually is. Take it or leave it, it doesn't matter to me.

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I wouldn't possibly be able to answer as to why, but the story about the little boy who cried wolf comes to mind. I was just pointing out what I noticed. Plus, I don't know how accurate NLP actually is. Take it or leave it, it doesn't matter to me.

But you are interested in the truth of this phenomena surely! What better witnesses than a set of young children?

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But you are interested in the truth of this phenomena surely! What better witnesses than a set of young children?

The only witness I'm willing to rely on wholly at this point is me. And even that is sketchy at best because I'm just as prone as anyone else to misperceive something that is unexpected and unfamiliar.

I need something far more convincing than eye witness accounts.

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You mean you dont believe the children and the eye witness! Sad day when a UFO encounter isnt believed by the population on this planet !

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You mean you dont believe the children and the eye witness! Sad day when a UFO encounter isnt believed by the population on this planet !

Denial is nothing more than a place to hide. :rolleyes:

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OK just watched 'Experiencers'. Thoroughly recommended. Here's my current thinking on the abduction phenomena after the last few weeks of research:

I am well beyond the point of wavering between is it true or not true. If you are a hardened sceptic then read no further. All I can say is do more research.

It appears that some of the abductions, that is the type that usually occurs at night is to do with another universe or reality interacting with ours in that particular location; similar to a gateway. During the interaction there is paralysis and the usual bodily functions are impaired to the point that control is given over to something else. Also during the transition there is an intense feeling of electrical activity. A charge or energy accompanied by an intense light. This is the overlap between the two dimensions. During this phase, matter is dissembled and people report moving through walls while being engulfed by the light or energy. It's as though the bodies vibratory rate is speeded up to the point of no longer being subject to the laws here; indeed the laws of time itself are interfered with.

Then there is the transition to their dimension. Memory is very sketchy at this point but this is where the medical activities and telepathic communication occurs. The body is still subject to this energy and intense electrical field.

My questions now are as follows:

1) Did the human race cause the gateway to become possible through contamination of the ecology say through nuclear activity? Are we to blame for the fact that they can now enter our reality. Has the cessation of nuclear testing closed the gateway in recent years? The reason for saying this is that 1947 seemed to be the starting point for the modern wave of incidents.

or

2) Has our vibratory rate and energy level increased naturally as the planet takes a step closer to it's evolution? Has it now speeded up to the point beyond where the gateway can function; could this explain why the phenomena appears to have stopped or decreased?

Sorry for the conjecture; it is just that. Something has been happening and I am certain of that. I also appreciate that the phenomena is very diverse with a wide variety of strains of UFO's/ET's and related incidents.

Try that :wacko:

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OK just watched 'Experiencers'. Thoroughly recommended. Here's my current thinking on the abduction phenomena after the last few weeks of research:

I am well beyond the point of wavering between is it true or not true. If you are a hardened sceptic then read no further. All I can say is do more research.

It appears that some of the abductions, that is the type that usually occurs at night is to do with another universe or reality interacting with ours in that particular location; similar to a gateway. During the interaction there is paralysis and the usual bodily functions are impaired to the point that control is given over to something else. Also during the transition there is an intense feeling of electrical activity. A charge or energy accompanied by an intense light. This is the overlap between the two dimensions. During this phase, matter is dissembled and people report moving through walls while being engulfed by the light or energy. It's as though the bodies vibratory rate is speeded up to the point of no longer being subject to the laws here; indeed the laws of time itself are interfered with.

Then there is the transition to their dimension. Memory is very sketchy at this point but this is where the medical activities and telepathic communication occurs. The body is still subject to this energy and intense electrical field.

My questions now are as follows:

1) Did the human race cause the gateway to become possible through contamination of the ecology say through nuclear activity? Are we to blame for the fact that they can now enter our reality. Has the cessation of nuclear testing closed the gateway in recent years? The reason for saying this is that 1947 seemed to be the starting point for the modern wave of incidents.

or

2) Has our vibratory rate and energy level increased naturally as the planet takes a step closer to it's evolution? Has it now speeded up to the point beyond where the gateway can function; could this explain why the phenomena appears to have stopped or decreased?

Sorry for the conjecture; it is just that. Something has been happening and I am certain of that. I also appreciate that the phenomena is very diverse with a wide variety of strains of UFO's/ET's and related incidents.

Try that :wacko:

The Experiencers is some pseudo quackery by John Mack from Fire in the Sky Fame fame isn't it? That UFO just keeps on giving doesn't it :rolleyes:

How about you try to rationalise a dimension before you decide we are getting visitors from such a place? Do you know how dimensions work? I have to say it would seem not going by your post. Instead of thinking "worlds" try dropping back down to "axis".

If the children are such good witnesses, why do their recollections vary wildly? Some say the craft landed, some say it hovered, some say they got a message, others were frightened, it is what I term the MWS statement. It's all over the place. Not only that, but can you explain why Mz Cynthia only released about 12 "recollections" out of 62? She claims to have interviewed that many, but only 12 made the cut, no doubt due to content. I see you also avoid the possibility of some type of Mass hysteria. The Fatima event is proof that such is possible.

This story relies completely on emotional blackmail i.e. "why would 62 such innocent African children lie?" Really, people should look deeper than this.

Vibratory rate of energy? Gateways? Some sound advice. Leave the hippies and TV shows for a bit and try logging onto berkeley.edu You might surprise yourself.

Edited by psyche101

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Denial is nothing more than a place to hide. :rolleyes:

I could not agree more.

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I've read a bit about this case before, but I hadn't seen any of the interviews. The kids are a bit difficult to read. If there is any truth to lie detection with eye movements referenced by Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP), portions of the accounts appear to include genuine memories but the majority appear to be constructed.

Hey Boon,

interesting line of approach there with the NLP!

out of curiosity, the 'genuine memories' that you point to, what exactly do you think could be the explanation for these? I am assuming the genuine portions you allude to are those that are not in relation to either craft or beings?

:tu:

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:tu:

The Experiencers is some pseudo quackery by John Mack from Fire in the Sky Fame fame isn't it? That UFO just keeps on giving doesn't it :rolleyes:

How about you try to rationalise a dimension before you decide we are getting visitors from such a place? Do you know how dimensions work? I have to say it would seem not going by your post. Instead of thinking "worlds" try dropping back down to "axis".

If the children are such good witnesses, why do their recollections vary wildly? Some say the craft landed, some say it hovered, some say they got a message, others were frightened, it is what I term the MWS statement. It's all over the place. Not only that, but can you explain why Mz Cynthia only released about 12 "recollections" out of 62? She claims to have interviewed that many, but only 12 made the cut, no doubt due to content. I see you also avoid the possibility of some type of Mass hysteria. The Fatima event is proof that such is possible.

This story relies completely on emotional blackmail i.e. "why would 62 such innocent African children lie?" Really, people should look deeper than this.

Vibratory rate of energy? Gateways? Some sound advice. Leave the hippies and TV shows for a bit and try logging onto berkeley.edu You might surprise yourself.

Hey Psyche...been a while :)

finally managed to grab a couple of hours to catch up properly with some threads. I find this case very interesting, we nearly delved into it once before. I am half-up for doing so, my only concern is we will end up with nothing conclusive due to lack of 'evidence' that is not eye witness accounts..

I would be interested in understanding why you said only 12 made the cut? do you have a link or further info to ellaborate on this point.

:tu:

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Hey Boon,

interesting line of approach there with the NLP!

out of curiosity, the 'genuine memories' that you point to, what exactly do you think could be the explanation for these? I am assuming the genuine portions you allude to are those that are not in relation to either craft or beings?

:tu:

Heya quillius. Actually, some of the apparently genuine memories were related to the craft and beings. The seeming inconsistency between the apparently constructed memories, which are likewise about the craft and beings, and the actual apparent recollections are somewhat baffling. Unless, of course, the students were coached with certain aspects before hand.

The moments of genuine recollection could be an effort to remember the details of the coaching, and the constructed portions could be them filling in the blanks where the coached back story hadn't been fully fleshed out.

Alternatively, the moments of genuine recollection could classify as evidence that the students truly witnessed something, and in an effort to please the interviewers when asked questions that they didn't know the answers to, they tried to fill in the blanks with what they thought would be plausible.

It is very hard to say, which is why I stated that the kids are a bit difficult to read.

I'm curious though. What is your take on the interviews? Have you had a chance to watch them?

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Heya quillius. Actually, some of the apparently genuine memories were related to the craft and beings. The seeming inconsistency between the apparently constructed memories, which are likewise about the craft and beings, and the actual apparent recollections are somewhat baffling. Unless, of course, the students were coached with certain aspects before hand.

The moments of genuine recollection could be an effort to remember the details of the coaching, and the constructed portions could be them filling in the blanks where the coached back story hadn't been fully fleshed out.

Alternatively, the moments of genuine recollection could classify as evidence that the students truly witnessed something, and in an effort to please the interviewers when asked questions that they didn't know the answers to, they tried to fill in the blanks with what they thought would be plausible.

It is very hard to say, which is why I stated that the kids are a bit difficult to read.

I'm curious though. What is your take on the interviews? Have you had a chance to watch them?

Hey buddy, ok I see your angles. If we look at the two options you described above (underlined) I feel the first instance of genuine recollection of 'coaching' would be usually accompanied by what I term 'voluntary tells', these would be more apparent in children....basically they would almost try and disguise this effort, which in itself is a good indicator.

The second option seems plausible, however I would expect elements of micro expressions to be visible, especially when filling in blanks.

I am trying to avoid watching the videos/interviews yet until I have done more research into various aspects...this may at first seem bizarre and would seemingly open me up to a 'bias' when viewing the videos, however I find this works better for me, very long story in explaining why this is so. I will gladly share my take on the interviews as soon as I have watched them and will even point out a few of the key parts, well key parts in my humble opinion... :tu:

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Well, when you have the time I look forward to your thoughts. Cheers quillius.

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Have any of you ever been to Africa?

In 2002 I went to Botswana, and trust me, you can make the kids say anything you want. They look so much up to you, especially if your are white and have a video camera.

:D

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Have any of you ever been to Africa?

In 2002 I went to Botswana, and trust me, you can make the kids say anything you want. They look so much up to you, especially if your are white and have a video camera.

:D

yes although you wouldnt be able to make somebody fake micro expressions, granted its not 100% impossible, however we are dealing with an expression that lasts anywhere between 1/5th - 1/15th of a second.

to be honest if we are talking about them 'blatantly lying' as opposed to 'misidentification' then this will be easy to spot...especially over such numbers.

oh and Boon, I will do mate, hopefully it will be tonight!

Edited by quillius

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The Experiencers is some pseudo quackery by John Mack from Fire in the Sky Fame fame isn't it? That UFO just keeps on giving doesn't it :rolleyes:

How about you try to rationalise a dimension before you decide we are getting visitors from such a place? Do you know how dimensions work? I have to say it would seem not going by your post. Instead of thinking "worlds" try dropping back down to "axis".

If the children are such good witnesses, why do their recollections vary wildly? Some say the craft landed, some say it hovered, some say they got a message, others were frightened, it is what I term the MWS statement. It's all over the place. Not only that, but can you explain why Mz Cynthia only released about 12 "recollections" out of 62? She claims to have interviewed that many, but only 12 made the cut, no doubt due to content. I see you also avoid the possibility of some type of Mass hysteria. The Fatima event is proof that such is possible.

This story relies completely on emotional blackmail i.e. "why would 62 such innocent African children lie?" Really, people should look deeper than this.

Vibratory rate of energy? Gateways? Some sound advice. Leave the hippies and TV shows for a bit and try logging onto berkeley.edu You might surprise yourself.

OK ; I'll write that down

Edited by zoser

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:tu:

Hey Psyche...been a while :)

finally managed to grab a couple of hours to catch up properly with some threads. I find this case very interesting, we nearly delved into it once before. I am half-up for doing so, my only concern is we will end up with nothing conclusive due to lack of 'evidence' that is not eye witness accounts..

I would be interested in understanding why you said only 12 made the cut? do you have a link or further info to ellaborate on this point.

:tu:

Hi Quillius

I know what you mean mate. And Xmas just around the corner.

Yes, 62 children were at the school, and supposedly witnessed this event. Cynthia Hind only offered up 12 interviews, yet she claims she spoke to all students and supposedly had 35 drawings of the sighting. All this seems to be squirreled away somewhere, but what is even more interesting about that number is that Dr John Mack, and a colleague visited the same people shortly thereafter and spent 2 days interviewing only 12 witnesses.

I am pretty sure every single website on the net lists 62 witnesses, see if you can find more than 12 recollections. I somehow doubt that you will, from what I have read, and what I could find, these 12 are the only ones that made the cut, Cynthia decided the rest were "similar enough" that this sampling would be what would be sufficient, I disagree and feel this is selective information gathering.

In my Opinion, the Westhall Australian sighting is far better corroborated, I do not know why some consider Ruwa a better case. The african incident has much inconsistency, some children say the craft landed some say it hovered, and some say the spoke to occupants, some say the occupant ran immediately, and then we have the Hind selective evidence of 12 special witnesses. One thing Cynthia could not resolve was the claims fo the craft landing. She admitted no evidence supported that claim, and the Bamboo stumps she felt would have been a deterrent for any machine.

Cheers.

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Have any of you ever been to Africa?

In 2002 I went to Botswana, and trust me, you can make the kids say anything you want. They look so much up to you, especially if your are white and have a video camera.

:D

I have not been to Africa, but I have travelled the Solomon's and I found the situation quite similar.

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OK ; I'll write that down

That is awesome zoser, I hope you do. Get back to me if you need any help with wrapping your head around dimensions. I am no expert, but I will do what I can, and I am sure many other will help as well.

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That is awesome zoser, I hope you do. Get back to me if you need any help with wrapping your head around dimensions. I am no expert, but I will do what I can, and I am sure many other will help as well.

Yes I particularly like your carefully crafted hypotheses earlier. The way you set out in a totally neutral fashion the salient points of the phenomena taking care not to leave out important information from the witnesses and the investigators. You are unbiased in your analysis, and your thoughts show a certain depth of insight that this challenging subject undoubtedly demands. It's also good that you show respect for those who have investigated the subject passionately over decades.

Thank you for your post.

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Have a look at this. These are the released pictures drawn by the kids.

ArielSchoolSketches.jpg

To me, there is honestly very little similarity other than the kids are all drawing Sci Fi Flying Saucers. And these are the ones that we get to see. Imagine if we had the entire spread. I feel the claims of similarity would drop further.

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