Who are the people who cannot believe in UFOs

[Sabbath]

I believe in UFO's (Unidentified Flying Objects), but not that they are aliens from other planets. They are after all, Unidentified, so no one knows.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Blacksabbath

[Mike 215]

What if the plasma seen and photographed is given off by the fusion or anti-matter engines? IF you look at the pool in a nuclear reactor storing those rods you can see a blue glow. I think that when nucler engines are working they give off colors which look like plasma.

OF course the US does not have any craft that are powered by nucler power. So they have to be ETs.

[Space Commander Travis]

The problem with this statement is, it's fairly common knowledge (at least I think so) that the military industrial complex is ahead in technology at least a few decades to what the public knows and accepts today.

Take the B2 for example. It was in development and in use for about 11 years before the government finally admitted its existence.

Actually, no. it was publicly revealed before it actually flew. You're probably thinking of the F-117; which was actually a pretty mediocre flying machine, certainly neither it nor the B-2 can do anything remotely like the kind of things attributed to UFOs. I'm afraid that all the speculation about extraordinary technology would need just as much a re-writing of the laws of physics as far as we know them as it would to say that they're extreterrestrials; there may be concepts floating around for things that can fly at extraordinary speeds, for instance, but getting them to also be able to hover silently and transition to extraordinary speeds in the winking of any eye is a quite different ballgame. There's really no more proof that this kind of technology exists than that extraterrestrials do, so really I think it's a level playing field.

[itsnotoutthere]

I have been personally shortchanged by a Pilot, I have seen military people on trial for unforgivable actions in the media, and I seem to remember two policemen a couple years back in Georgia that were not 100% trustworthy to say the least. I do not see anything wrong with questioning any personal interpretation. Yes it is science, only empirical evidence will do, and that is how it should be. This mess would be cleaned up whole lot faster if that was the general attitude toward the UFO phenomena. It is obviously made up of many different things, so looking in one place is wrong for a start.

Yes, very good point. Why is it always assumed by the ufo fraternity that because somebody has trained to be a pilot or policeman they've suddenly lost the ability to lie. Wonder how many pilots have affairs with cabin crew & keep the secret from their wives?

[Hazzard]

What if the plasma seen and photographed is given off by the fusion or anti-matter engines? IF you look at the pool in a nuclear reactor storing those rods you can see a blue glow. I think that when nucler engines are working they give off colors which look like plasma.

OF course the US does not have any craft that are powered by nucler power. So they have to be ETs.

Good lord,... With that kind of "logical reasoning" you can come to the conclusion thatanything is possible.

No, Mike, this is a logical fallacy.

[Belial]

I thought all 'UFOS' where/are phallic in reasoning

[JesseCuster]

Re the OP:

The President of a University was involved in covering up a scandal involving football coaches and child sex.

The President of a University is an academic.

Scientists and people with PhDs are academics.

Therefore scientists and people with PhDs are perverts.

The people who disagree with me about UFOs and Bigfoot are scientists and people with PhDs.

Therefore if someone disagrees with me about UFOs or Bigfoot, it's okay for me to imply that they like having sex with children.

Wow. That is probably the dumbest argument I've ever read on the Internet. And that includes the stuff YECs come out with.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Archimedes

[Hazzard]

Re the OP:

The President of a University was involved in covering up a scandal involving football coaches and child sex.

The President of a University is an academic.

Scientists and people with PhDs are academics.

Therefore scientists and people with PhDs are perverts.

The people who disagree with me about UFOs and Bigfoot are scientists and people with PhDs.

Therefore if someone disagrees with me about UFOs or Bigfoot, it's okay for me to imply that they like having sex with children.

Wow. That is probably the dumbest argument I've ever read on the Internet. And that includes the stuff YECs come out with.

Dumb doest even begin to describe this type of "logic".

[Space Commander Travis]

Oh no, another Acronym. What be a "YEC", pray?

[JesseCuster]

Oh no, another Acronym. What be a "YEC", pray?

Young Earth Creationism

[TheMcGuffin]

Did the Radio tower have a blinking light as well?

Possibly, but I don't really remember. I know that the UFO did.

[TheMcGuffin]

Re the OP:

The President of a University was involved in covering up a scandal involving football coaches and child sex.

The past president of Penn State, Dr. Eric Walker, knew a great deal about UFOs, including information about a crash out west and recovered bodies. People keep asking me who has all the evidence, and Walker admitted that he was one of those who did, along with Vannevar Bush and others. He was one of the last surviving members of the original UFO group.

Not that I'd ever say that he was involved in the latest Penn State scandal because he has been quite dead for a while now.

If you really want to know something about UFOs, I suggest you try to find out a lot more about Dr. Walker.

[Mike 215]

So fusion engines do not exist? That is what we are told. But, there are always exceptons to the rule. Look up the following patent on google: METHOD AND ARPATUS FOR GENERATING AND UTILIZINE A COMPOUND P L A S M A CLNFIGURATION #4,023,065 dated May 10 1877. Here is the article from the NY Times May 14, 1977 concerning this patent:

"An apparatus where the inventor expects it to be capable of producing twice today's electrical power, and at the same time provide the energy necessary to manufacture adequate supplies of synthetic gasoline... Until now the world's nuclear fusion scientists have been working on an althernative Russian engine for future commercial use.

"Patent number4,023,065 granted to Paul M. Koloc of College Park, Md., a retired navy research physicis.,t for what he called A COMPACT THERMONUCLEAR REACTOR. The patent desscribes how to make and use a compound ionized gas, trademarked PMK, The PMK magnetically multiples the pressure to an incredible level and heats the deuterium fuel to 100 million degrees.

"Future energy applications predicted fo the reactor include the prodcution of fertilizer, the drying of grain, the metling and refining of metals AND POWER FOR THE PROPULSION OF SPACE SHIPS.

And so ladies and gentlement when you look up in the night sky and see those plasma glowing ships, you are seeing Mr. Koloc's thermonuclear reactor at work. I forgot to mention that his reactor is the size of an egg.

[lost_shaman]

Possibly, but I don't really remember. I know that the UFO did.

That's a very simple detail. You said the UFO was near the Radio Tower for 10 - 15 mins. I can't scientifically say you are full of it but my own sighting was 9 years ago and roughly the same duration and I still vividly remember many small details. For you to say you don't remember the Tower is a BIG GIANT RED FLAG to me.

[mcrom901]

The one I saw hovered in place for 15-20 minutes and didn't change shape.

It wasn't exactly Saturn-shaped, though, not in the pictures I saw. At times, it looked almost diamond-shaped.

how did you conclude that the visual distortions were not physical attributes?

[Mike 215]

Look up the following on google: President CLinton UFOs. He gave a series of speeches after he left office which are quite interesting. In one of them he admits he tried to find out about Roswell but the people in charge refused to give him the necessary documents. He admitted that the this is not unusual that presdients are denied information.

So if the president cannot get those documents, then who is running the country (hint: Wall Street).

[zoser]

Who are the people who cannot believe in UFO's?

An unorthodox conjecture without judgement:

It's to do with possession. That is exercising possession on the formal and classic education that we are given at school and then later at University. This education gives strict cleavage to certain assumed axioms or laws that were the life's work of those who excelled in their given fields. To a certain extent this is understandable because the majority of our modern existence is constructed from this produce. Einstein, Newton, et al. For many, these laws represent security , a source of identity and have a sacredness attached to them. Now the UFO phenomena sits directly outside of these boundaries. Many people however due to their background, aspirations and general attitude whilst acknowledging the brilliance of those great discoveries are not bound by them; in my case this is almost certainly due to the mundane nature (in application terms not intellectual) of that classic and formal learning.

Hope I didn't bore you.

Z

Edited November 13, 2011 by zoser

[TheMcGuffin]

That's a very simple detail. You said the UFO was near the Radio Tower for 10 - 15 mins. I can't scientifically say you are full of it but my own sighting was 9 years ago and roughly the same duration and I still vividly remember many small details. For you to say you don't remember the Tower is a BIG GIANT RED FLAG to me.

You would say that. I'd expect nothing else from you. A lot of what you say is a red flag to me, since you simply push this plasma theory regardless of the evidence.

And I'm well aware that much of what you say to me is based on personal and political dislike, which is mutual.

Edited November 13, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[lost_shaman]

You would say that. I'd expect nothing else from you. A lot of what you say is a red flag to me, since you simply push this plasma theory regardless of the evidence.

And I'm well aware that much of what you say to me is based on personal and political dislike, which is mutual.

I discuss plasmas simply because what we know of them fits the evidence. It's that simple. I'm not alone in taking this position.

As for things being personal or political, you did that on purpose not me. I was just offended by it.

ETA: Also I want to add that I think it's a cheap trick for you to even bring it up when you started this out of the blue and the way you are phrasing it makes it look like I'm the one with the grudge which is absolutely not the case! I'm just here to talk about UFO's and the evidence, not to make either Friends or Enemies and that's always been the case since I started discussing the Phenomena after my own Close encounter in '02.

Edited November 14, 2011 by lost_shaman

[psyche101]

Well, sir, that's your privilege. This is a Billy Meir "UFO", by the way, but it's not what I saw. If you can find a plasma that even remotely resembles what I saw, then post it. I have never seen one that looked like it.

Actually, the one that your description reminds me of mostly is the Trindade Island claim. We actually have a picture.

Not this:

But this:

And acknowledging that your sighting exhibited properties as described by yourself as far beyond the capabilities of an aircraft like this.

Edited November 15, 2011 by psyche101

[psyche101]

What if the plasma seen and photographed is given off by the fusion or anti-matter engines? IF you look at the pool in a nuclear reactor storing those rods you can see a blue glow. I think that when nucler engines are working they give off colors which look like plasma.

Mike, plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. Heat does this. Yes, you are most likely describing a Plasma. They also occur in nature, a project has been running for years at Hessdalen Valley studying natural Plasmas.

OF course the US does not have any craft that are powered by nucler power. So they have to be ETs.

Google NERVA. No, they do not have to be ET at all.

[psyche101]

Yes, very good point. Why is it always assumed by the ufo fraternity that because somebody has trained to be a pilot or policeman they've suddenly lost the ability to lie. Wonder how many pilots have affairs with cabin crew & keep the secret from their wives?

WOW

Indeed you are right! I had not figured about those tempting hosties, but I did a quick Google on your suggestion, and got back many results! More than I expected.

Trustworthy hrrmzzz .........

[psyche101]

Actually, no. it was publicly revealed before it actually flew. You're probably thinking of the F-117; which was actually a pretty mediocre flying machine, certainly neither it nor the B-2 can do anything remotely like the kind of things attributed to UFOs. I'm afraid that all the speculation about extraordinary technology would need just as much a re-writing of the laws of physics as far as we know them as it would to say that they're extreterrestrials; there may be concepts floating around for things that can fly at extraordinary speeds, for instance, but getting them to also be able to hover silently and transition to extraordinary speeds in the winking of any eye is a quite different ballgame. There's really no more proof that this kind of technology exists than that extraterrestrials do, so really I think it's a level playing field.

Nature can provide a precedent for such maneuvers though. Plasmas. With such little mass, it is pretty easy to get around inertia.

Edited November 15, 2011 by psyche101

[TheMcGuffin]

WOW

Indeed you are right! I had not figured about those tempting hosties, but I did a quick Google on your suggestion, and got back many results! More than I expected.

Trustworthy hrrmzzz .........

No one who lived through Vietnam and Watergate, as I did, would ever assume that people in authority always tell the truth--far from it.

I do tend to believe reports that were classified and never intended for public consumption. That's also why I don't believe Blue Book, since it was intended for public consumption.

In the U.S. government at least, what goes on behind the scenes is almost always very different from its public statements. Modern history proves that.

[psyche101]

So fusion engines do not exist? That is what we are told. But, there are always exceptons to the rule. Look up the following patent on google: METHOD AND ARPATUS FOR GENERATING AND UTILIZINE A COMPOUND P L A S M A CLNFIGURATION #4,023,065 dated May 10 1877. Here is the article from the NY Times May 14, 1977 concerning this patent:

"An apparatus where the inventor expects it to be capable of producing twice today's electrical power, and at the same time provide the energy necessary to manufacture adequate supplies of synthetic gasoline... Until now the world's nuclear fusion scientists have been working on an althernative Russian engine for future commercial use.

"Patent number4,023,065 granted to Paul M. Koloc of College Park, Md., a retired navy research physicis.,t for what he called A COMPACT THERMONUCLEAR REACTOR. The patent desscribes how to make and use a compound ionized gas, trademarked PMK, The PMK magnetically multiples the pressure to an incredible level and heats the deuterium fuel to 100 million degrees.

"Future energy applications predicted fo the reactor include the prodcution of fertilizer, the drying of grain, the metling and refining of metals AND POWER FOR THE PROPULSION OF SPACE SHIPS.

And so ladies and gentlement when you look up in the night sky and see those plasma glowing ships, you are seeing Mr. Koloc's thermonuclear reactor at work. I forgot to mention that his reactor is the size of an egg.

Also, you can look up fusion power on WIkipedia.

Around the same time, an expatriate German Ronald Richter proposed the Huemul Project in Argentina, announcing positive results in 1951. Although these results turned out to be false, it sparked off intense interest around the world. The UK pinch programs were greatly expanded, culminating in the ZETA and Sceptre devices. In the US, pinch experiments like those in the UK started at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. Similar devices were built in the USSR after data on the UK program was passed to them by Klaus Fuchs. At Princeton University a new approach developed as the stellarator, and the research establishment formed there continues to this day as the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory. Not to be outdone, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory entered the field with their own variation, the magnetic mirror. These three groups have remained the primary developers of fusion research in the US to this day.

LINK

ZETA (Fusion Reactor)

Sceptre (fusion reactor)

Stellarator