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Still Waters

Christian 'fired for refusing to wear '666'

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Excellent point Kratos... I feel there is more to this story than meets the eye... For all we know he could have had a few formal warnings for other rules he may have broken leading up to this 666 flip out OR he could have done more with this whole 666 malarkey then we know about...

A few people have made this look as if they fired him all because they are anti-Christians... Which to me is garbage talk..... The factory being situated in the bible belt is bound to have it's fair share of Christian employees and most likely Christians in management.... So to say it was all anti Christian is over the top and down right silly

I thought so. :P

So much in fact I just emailed the company telling them to forward the passage link to their lawyers. Teach him to annoy me while I'm enjoying an all nighter. With any luck, I'll get some free plastic goods from them. :lol:

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I thought so. :P

So much in fact I just emailed the company telling them to forward the passage link to their lawyers. Teach him to annoy me while I'm enjoying an all nighter. With any luck, I'll get some free plastic goods from them. :lol:

tongue.gifI wouldn't put it past you lol

In ref to the article, why this is even made news is beyond me...

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what an idiot

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Considering the mindset of most fundamentalists in the south, his refusal doesn't surprise me. One day, maybe they'll get past all of this mythology generated angst over a simple set of numbers.

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Considering the mindset of most fundamentalists in the south, his refusal doesn't surprise me. One day, maybe they'll get past all of this mythology generated angst over a simple set of numbers.

A Judge wont take that view.

Some people are deeply religious to the point where they would take offence to a 666 badge. Religious rights are protected under law. If you worked in a toy shop which was promoting Gollywog dolls, you were black and they wanted you to wear a Gollywog sticker would you take that?

I sure as hell wouldnt.

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So you work at an abbatoir and to promote the rights of animals they are going to make you wear a sticker of a lamb getting an electric shock to the head.

Only problem is you're Muslim and you faith demands it gets its throat slit while fully conscious.

Do you think your manager would make you go through with wearing the sticker?

Wait, why would a Muslim get a job that conflicts with their beliefs?

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Hmm, I wonder what would happen if this were a Muslim issue?

This is a big deal to Christians and there is no reason to force him to wear it. Something tells me that they didn't like it that he was a Christian. Maybe he was reading his terrible Bible at lunch and threatening to destroy the sanctity of all the nonbelievers.

They had it in for him.

JMO.

Note: 616 is a variant but the most widely accepted number is 666.

Some Christians understand the context of the number, clearly he wasn't one of them.

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Some people are deeply religious to the point where they would take offence to a 666 badge.

And those SOME you speak of have issues and take it too far... Any confident Christian would NOT take it that far... Looks to me like the guy you are trying desperately to defend is not that confident... Confident Christians KNOW they are protected regardless of a stupid sticker ....

Over reactors are two a penny lol

If you worked in a toy shop which was promoting Gollywog dolls, you were black and they wanted you to wear a Gollywog sticker would you take that?

Oh for petes sake this is just getting worse by the post lol They no longer make gollywog dolls ...... .. Here are more really silly examples --> Say you worked in your local KFC and your manager wanted you to wear a chicken burger badge. and you are a vegetarian.. would you wear it?? ...OR.......... You are working in a bar, the landlord suggests to wear a new larger sticker to promote it.. and you are T- total..would you wear it? OMG the horrors...w00t.gif

Each example you have given.. including the Muslim and lamb one are just silly examples... like the examples I made up just now... They are all silly...You have not made any valid or logical point....The reason why you have not made a point is.. Your statement or your attempt to defend this character is weaken by saying - But some are just overly religious.... Lots of Christians are really religious but those that freak out over a sticker is just beyond that.. that's mental ..not overly religious ...His fears of this number could use help from a professional IF he feels that bad....

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Wait, why would a Muslim get a job that conflicts with their beliefs?

laugh.gif I know, I read that and thought what??

I think this whole issue should be settled out of court and allow the man to receive $666 compensation tongue.gif

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ITT we discuss who should've cared less - should the man give a **** about the number? Or should the company have given a **** he was wearing it?

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This is a none story. We all have to deal with work issues that undermine 'religious' beliefs. As a Native American, we have to deal with many issues such as hair length, etc. What I hate the most is that I am FORCED to endure Christmas crap at work when that is NOT MY HOLIDAY.

This is a none story.

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I Generally keep my opinions on these matter's to myself, as my personal religious beliefs are difficult to understand for all and ascertain for most. However, this guy here took what he thought to be 'something' and turned into much much more than it is. However, on the flip side, we just had a post on here about muslims enrolling in Christian or Catholic schools then suing when they wont follow the predetermined rules of conduct on clothes. So, is it right for the courts to rule in favor of that and not this?

Those muslims knew full well the rules when they enrolled and were told the punishment for not following it, yet the maintained their position. I'm not going to say either is right or wrong, I'm just saying if Muslims and other religions can get rulings in favor of their religion then so should Christians.

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The number itself is in question, a quick internet search will show you that some say it was interpreted wrong and it should be 616. I think Christians should make a decision on what the number is first, then complain whether or not this story is an issue or not.

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The whole point of having Freedom of Religion guaranteed as a right in the Constitution is so that people do not have to justify their beliefs. The Founding Fathers rightly recognized that anyone's beliefs may be impossible to defend to non-believers. So it doesn't matter why the man believed this, or what the "true" number really is. What matters is that he believed it. Our laws give him that right. It is not right to suppose that he should have lied his way out of a confrontation by feigning illness since as a devout person that course would have also been against his beliefs. He sounds to me like a man of principle who was truthful about his beliefs and expected them to be respected. Not an unreasonable request. If the company was targeting him for termination for other reasons they picked the wrong issue to act upon.

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Emergency number for the UK and N.Ireland is - 999 <-- that's 666 if you turn it on it's head ... I wonder how many are reluctant to call for an ambulance or a fire truck?

Come on... You can do better than that. That line of reasoning's ridiculous and you know it. It's like saying we should never write the number 187 because it's 479 away from 666. There's no significance attached to these numbers. If anything 999 would be the opposite of 666 and therefore the best possible number :P

And those SOME you speak of have issues and take it too far... Any confident Christian would NOT take it that far... Looks to me like the guy you are trying desperately to defend is not that confident... Confident Christians KNOW they are protected regardless of a stupid sticker ....

Over reactors are two a penny lol

Sure some Christians believe they are protected regardless but this guy's chosen to interpret it differently. And, frankly, who are you to say that his beliefs aren't worth protecting as much as other people's because he believes God will act differently to the general opinion.

The number itself is in question, a quick internet search will show you that some say it was interpreted wrong and it should be 616. I think Christians should make a decision on what the number is first, then complain whether or not this story is an issue or not.

That'd be an individual decision even then. Why do so many people seem to think Christians are a single entity with some kind of hive-mind that will dictate every detail of what a Christian must believe?

If sme of you stop and think for a second, you might realise that this man's beliefs should carry just as much weight as the Pope's or any other person you care to name. To demand that he back it up with a book is moronic. And that's being charitable.

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Come on... You can do better than that. That line of reasoning's ridiculous

The 999 emergency line was a JOKE lol

And, frankly, who are you to say that his beliefs aren't worth protecting as much as other people's because he believes God will act differently to the general opinion.

Is this national over reaction week?..................I never said his beliefs are not worth protecting... I said Confident Christians will trust in Gods protection and not flip out over a number .........This is a fact....

If you are confident god will protect you, then flipping out over anything is just acting silly... There is NO need to cause a fuss just because you feel scared ....You need to ask yourself - Should I hold fear?? Isnt God protecting me.? Do I trust Gods protection?............... But come on it was a sticker, he could have dealt with it a lot easier without any fuss made

That factory is in the bible belt in Georgia ..It is likely to have many religious Christians working in it... even managers.... But this story to me is an over the top reaction to a single sticker.......I feel we are not hearing the FULL story.. There has to be more to it than just a sticker hissy fit

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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The whole point of having Freedom of Religion guaranteed as a right in the Constitution is so that people do not have to justify their beliefs. The Founding Fathers rightly recognized that anyone's beliefs may be impossible to defend to non-believers. So it doesn't matter why the man believed this, or what the "true" number really is. What matters is that he believed it. Our laws give him that right. It is not right to suppose that he should have lied his way out of a confrontation by feigning illness since as a devout person that course would have also been against his beliefs. He sounds to me like a man of principle who was truthful about his beliefs and expected them to be respected. Not an unreasonable request. If the company was targeting him for termination for other reasons they picked the wrong issue to act upon.

Exactly

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The 999 emergency line was a JOKE lol

I know. I'm merely pointing out that it was a completely nonsensicle one.

Is this national over reaction week?..................I never said his beliefs are not worth protecting... I said Confident Christians will trust in Gods protection and not flip out over a number .........This is a fact....

No. It isn't a fact. It is merely what you believe a confident Christian should think. That's not your decision to make.

If you are confident god will protect you, then flipping out over anything is just acting silly... There is NO need to cause a fuss just because you feel scared ....You need to ask yourself - Should I hold fear?? Isnt God protecting me.? Do I trust Gods protection?............... But come on it was a sticker, he could have dealt with it a lot easier without any fuss made

Who says he's confident God will protect him. Again, you're expecting people to match their religious beliefs to your preconceived notions of them.

Personally, I'd have no problem wearing a sticker that says 666. These days I'm not sure I do trust God to protect me. But it's only a number. If anything came of it, I'd deal with as and when necessary.

This man doesn't share my beliefs. He thinks God will remove His protection if he wears this sticker and I respect that belief. I might think it's ridiculous but I wouldn't try and force him to go against it.

Ask yourself this: what's the worst consequence (in each party's opinion)

if he wears the sticker (worker's opinion),

- He's doomed to eternal damnation and torment.

He doesn't wear the sticker (employer's opinion),

- One of their employees isn't wearing a pointless sticker

I think I know which I'd rather risk.

That factory is in the bible belt in Georgia ..It is likely to have many religious Christians working in it... even managers.... But this story to me is an over the top reaction to a single sticker.......I feel we are not hearing the FULL story.. There has to be more to it than just a sticker hissy fit

I agree there may be more to this story. But until that comes to light (if it exists), we can only go on what has been presented. To guess at other possible things is pointless and won't get us anywhere.

To you, the reaction might seem over the top but that is just your opinion and counts for nothing in the legality of what his employer did. If there were other reasons for firing him, they should have picked one of those.

Also, just because it is likely to have many Christians working there, it doesn't mean they all share exactly the same opinions. As I've already said, it's down to individual interpretation.

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I Generally keep my opinions on these matter's to myself, as my personal religious beliefs are difficult to understand for all and ascertain for most. However, this guy here took what he thought to be 'something' and turned into much much more than it is. However, on the flip side, we just had a post on here about muslims enrolling in Christian or Catholic schools then suing when they wont follow the predetermined rules of conduct on clothes. So, is it right for the courts to rule in favor of that and not this?

Those muslims knew full well the rules when they enrolled and were told the punishment for not following it, yet the maintained their position. I'm not going to say either is right or wrong, I'm just saying if Muslims and other religions can get rulings in favor of their religion then so should Christians.

That is why I am a non believer in organized religions of ANY kind. I am a spiritual person who believes in a creator but not in any form of religious dogmas. Instead of focusing on differences in beliefs and hating and killing each other because of them, we have to realize we are on this planet together as the human race and stop bickering among ourselves on whose religion is right or wrong.

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I know. I'm merely pointing out that it was a completely nonsensicle one.

Sigh

No. It isn't a fact.

If you are not confident... you allow fears to settle this is FACT like it or not... Actually it is a fact of life in general..

Who says he's confident God will protect him

No one, he sure doesn't show any confidence flipping out over a number either...........What is your point with this anyway?

Personally, I'd have no problem wearing a sticker that says 666. These days I'm not sure I do trust God to protect me. But it's only a number. If anything came of it, I'd deal with as and when necessary.

Are you religious and a firm believer in God?

This man doesn't share my beliefs.

Obviously lol

He thinks God will remove His protection if he wears this sticker and I respect that belief

Lack of trust and paranoia springs to mind....All he had to do was say a prayer asking God to protect him if he felt that bad...Or at least help him over come his fear

I might think it's ridiculous but I wouldn't try and force him to go against it.

You do not know the full story...so you are relying on your own assumptions.. he was NOT forced He was given a choice ..wear it or take a 3 day suspension.. you did read the article?

if he wears the sticker (worker's opinion),

He doesn't wear the sticker (employer's opinion),- One of their employees isn't wearing a pointless sticker

Both of those are not carefully thought out... This is a simple way and more logical way to explain it - If he wears the sticker.. will god protect him regardless? Or will he not get protected and go to hell ? <-- where is the logic in the boded part?

I feel you are over doing this .. I know you will go all out to defend a Christian but this is getting too much of a joke... The truth is we have not heard the FULL story... I fail to believe he was fired over a sticker...there has to be more to it.. Any intelligent being will agree..

To you, the reaction might seem over the top but that is just your opinion and counts for nothing in the legality of what his employer did

And how would you know for sure what his employers really did?

Answer me this truthful and no messing for the sake of arguing the toss... - Do you feel he was over reacting and could have found better ways to handle the situation without using fear and causing a fuss?..........I mean there are always better ways to handle situations we face... You should know this.. But all this jumping on my opinions because you want to desperately defend some Christian mans weird behaviour is pointless... You know fine well that if you are meant to be deeply religious you should at least trust in god.. Why you would try and deny that is beyond me blink.gif

You say my opinion counts for nothing.. as does your own..

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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If you are not confident... you allow fears to settle this is FACT like it or not... Actually it is a fact of life in general..

But you're making the assumption that Christians must believe God will protect them. Hence, you are attaching your idea of what a confident Christian is to someone else's beliefs which doesn't lead anywhere but misunderstandings.

No one, he sure doesn't show any confidence flipping out over a number either...........What is your point with this anyway?

That, as I've already said, you are expecting his beliefs to conform to your notion of what a Christian is.

Are you religious and a firm believer in God?

Yes.

Lack of trust and paranoia springs to mind....All he had to do was say a prayer asking God to protect him if he felt that bad...Or at least help him over come his fear

Again, why do you assume he believes this???

You do not know the full story...so you are relying on your own assumptions.. he was NOT forced He was given a choice ..wear it or take a 3 day suspension.. you did read the article?

Only briefly, I must admit. But that is still 'go against your beliefs or be punished for it'. That's still wrong in my opinion and according to most countries' laws.

Both of those are not carefully thought out... This is a simple way and more logical way to explain it - If he wears the sticker.. will god protect him regardless? Or will he not get protected and go to hell ? <-- where is the logic in the boded part

Obviously he believes he will have forgone God's protection by wearing the number. That's his belief. If you can prove he believes in an all loving, all powerful God, you have a point here. If not, I would ask how it is not logical.

I feel you are over doing this ..

And I feel you are out of line by imposing your notions of belief onto someone else.

I know you will go all out to defend a Christian but this is getting too much of a joke...

I'll go all out for anyone who is punished for their beliefs and I'm rather proud of it. So thank you for pointing that out.

The truth is we have not heard the FULL story... I fail to believe he was fired over a sticker...there has to be more to it..

As I said, if and when more of the story comes to light, it may be that you are correct. Until then, it is pointless to speculate.

Any intelligent being will agree..

Thinly veiled insults? That's what you're resorting to? You usually do better than that.

And how would you know for sure what his employers really did?

Answer me this truthful and no messing for the sake of arguing the toss... - Do you feel he was over reacting and could have found better ways to handle the situation without using fear and causing a fuss?..........I mean there are always better ways to handle situations we face... You should know this..

No. I don't feel he was overreacting. If he truly believes he shouldn't wear it, then he should have that choice. If anyone is overreacting, it's his employers. It's a sticker for God's sake! What do they lose by him not wearing it? Unless their beliefs are that all employees must wear a sticker showing how long they have been without an accident or they will go to hell, the answer is - nothing.

As for the bolded part, I hope you're not referring to what I think you are. If so, I'm disgusted. How someone reacts is an individual thing adn no-one, no-one at all, can tell you whether you're reacting in the 'right' way. I would have thought you would appreciate that of all people...

But all this jumping on my opinions because you want to desperately defend some Christian mans weird behaviour is pointless... You know fine well that if you are meant to be deeply religious you should at least trust in god.. Why you would try and deny that is beyond me blink.gif

I'm 'jumping on your opinions' as you put it because I feel you are out of order by assuming that everyone must conform to your idea of what it is to have a faith.

I don't think you have to trust in God to be religious. I acknowledge His existence and might call on Him if I need to but that doesn't mean I trust Him.

Just because it is beyond you, does not make it wrong...

You say my opinion counts for nothing.. as does your own..

I know. That's why I'm not the one assuming he believes particular things.

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Excellent responses Setton. Saved me a lot of time. The thing that it boils down to me is that his decision not to wear it has absolutely no bearing on his ability to perform his job. We shall see how this pans out. I really doubt they would have fired him for this alone. There must be more to the story.

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And how would you know for sure what his employers really did?

Answer me this truthful and no messing for the sake of arguing the toss... - Do you feel he was over reacting and could have found better ways to handle the situation without using fear and causing a fuss?..........I mean there are always better ways to handle situations we face... You should know this.. But all this jumping on my opinions because you want to desperately defend some Christian mans weird behaviour is pointless... You know fine well that if you are meant to be deeply religious you should at least trust in god.. Why you would try and deny that is beyond me blink.gif

The issue is one of religious freedom.

People dont have the right to impose their views on another individual and thereby violate their religious rights. Also refusing to wear it had no bearing on his ability to do his job.

This is religious discrimination and violation of employment practices.

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But you're making the assumption that Christians must believe God will protect them..

Christians DO in fact believe Jesus will protect them.... They believe Jesus saves and protect.. It is a fact

you are expecting his beliefs to conform to your notion of what a Christian is.

Again Christians believe God / Jesus protects them...it is a fact like it or not..

Yes.

......And yet earlier you said this..

These days I'm not sure I do trust God to protect me

Well then why would you feel unsure if you would receive any of gods protection? Better still to add - Why would you lack trust in God to protect you?...That sure doesn't sound like someone who is a firm true believer in God... With doubts like that .. not a chance

But that is still 'go against your beliefs or be punished for it'. That's still wrong in my opinion and according to most countries' laws.

Look no company is simply going to fire you for not wanting to wear a lousey sticker..Not when they made him wait 3 days and had to reach a decision from HR.. Human resources are there to see an employee is treated fairly and by the book.

It is not as if they were asking him to wear some health and safety clothing or something that is part of their uniform... It was a sticky peace of paper to note how many days they were accident free... There has to be a lot more to this story... Like How the man truly handled it...?

When a company gives you a 3 day suspension, that means they are waiting from higher authority and HR to decide what steps to take next . .this is a fact.. I have worked in management myself and had to do this..... So a case it put forward and depending on how an employee handles a situation, then they look at your past records ... If they feel you have over stepped the mark again.. they can fire you.... They are NOT going to fire you over a sticker.. there is always more to it...

And I feel you are out of line by imposing your notions of belief onto someone else.

You chose to pull up my posts to start an argument... So tell me why I am not entitled to give MY views like everyone else has... Please do explain that to me? And who was I imposing my views on to.. Way I see it is - We are all giving our own views and debating it.. Its how it goes..

I'll go all out for anyone who is punished for their beliefs and I'm rather proud of it.

I wouldn't feel proud of making a bigger deal out of something I do not know the full story of... If we got to read what the employers had to say. .then It would make it more clearer.. All we have read is a ONE sided story...

As I said, if and when more of the story comes to light, it may be that you are correct. Until then, it is pointless to speculate

Yes because if someone feels there has to be more to a story than being fired over a sticker.. is too logical.. that is a NO NO lol

Thinly veiled insults? That's what you're resorting to? You usually do better than that.

Why would you say this? You obviously cut out the tip end of my post.. to twist it to look as though I was insulting.. My FULL sentence was....see below

The truth is we have not heard the FULL story... I fail to believe he was fired over a sticker...there has to be more to it.. Any intelligent being will agree..

It means anyone intelligent will agree that a one sided story is not the full story.. there has to be more to it. We cannot see anything from the employers to that story so it is one sided.... Now please enough with cutting tip bits of a post to twist it.. What I said is true.. And you noted yourself that you only briefly know the story... I was speaking in general.. anyone who understand a one sided story has to have more to it..

No. I don't feel he was overreacting. If he truly believes he shouldn't wear it, then he should have that choice. If anyone is overreacting, it's his employers. It's a sticker for God's sake! What do they lose by him not wearing it? Unless their beliefs are that all employees must wear a sticker showing how long they have been without an accident or they will go to hell, the answer is - nothing.

You are basing all of this on a one sided story.. You do not know what really went on between him and his employers... You do not know all of what what said ect...

As for the bolded part, I hope you're not referring to what I think you are. If so, I'm disgusted.

What do you mean if so you are disgusted... What would disgust you? I said - ..I mean there are always better ways to handle situations we face... You should know this.. <-- what is so disgusting in believing there are always better ways to handle situations in life we face? If we come up and face a problem, there are ways, better ways for us to handle these problems and it doesn't matter what the problem may be.. we should seek better ways to handle them............ explain to me how saying this is so disgusting?

That's why I'm not the one assuming he believes particular things.

Really? and yet you post this...

Obviously he believes he will have forgone God's protection by wearing the number. That's his belief.

I call that an assumption .. one that you gladly posted

Here's another..

He thinks God will remove His protection if he wears this sticker and I respect that belief

Another one of your own assumptions to what you think he believes

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I really doubt they would have fired him for this alone. There must be more to the story.

That is exactly what I have been telling Setton ...There has to be more to it.. We have not read anything from the other side of the fence ( from employers) ...

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