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Talon

Doubts Over Bush's Military Record

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MEMOS ROCK BUSH TEAM

Fresh questions have been raised over the service record of George Bush after it emerged he may have received favourable treatment during his time in the Texas Air National Guard because of his family connections.

Mr Bush's aides have always insisted the President was suspended honourably from the Guard simply because he decided to skip a medical.

However, new memos obtained by CBS news show Mr Bush was also stopped from flying planes because he did not meet standards.

Despite this, his commanding officer was "pressured from above" to give Mr Bush favourable reports, the memos reveal.

The memos also raise questions over whether the Bush family may have pulled strings to get him into the Air Guard so he could avoid going to Vietnam.

The four documents come from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr Bush's squadron commander.

The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" - a requirement for all pilots. Mr Bush missed the test.

Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says due to other commitments "he may not have time."

On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Mr Bush for failure to perform to US Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.

A year after Mr Bush's suspension from flying, Killian was asked to write another assessment.

Killian's memo said he was being pressured by his superiors to give the young pilot a favourable yearly evaluation and to "sugarcoat" his review. He refused, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."

The leak is bad news for the Bush campaign team, who have been critical of election opponent John Kerry's Vietnam war record.

White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett said: "The bottom line is that there is no truth to this."

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13217922,00.html

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Before the Bush bashing gets started, I'd just like to say, I don't give a rats ass about what happened so long ago. I wish they would just leave Bush and Kerry's military crap in the past where it belongs.

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i hope CBS come good with their sources etc otherwise i think its just an attempt to boost opinion polls of kerry:)

i do hope they realise that eventually people will get sick of being told how bad Bush supposedly is and this will lead to an increase in votes for Bush

Edited by bathory

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I wish they would just leave Bush and Kerry's military crap in the past where it belongs.

Yeah, I don't the American obssession with whether their leaders were good soldiers or not. In Scotland we vote people based on policies, not military records.

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I think it's silly to care weather or not they have good Military records. Why is it suddenly so important?

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We're a military country. Constant wars since the Civil War.

So whether or not you served your country with honor is very important.

Even for myself I don't support the war, I don't support the government but I still did my time in the military.

Edited by Velikovsky

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Velikovsky, I'm sure you did an admirable job, I didn't mean to diminish that. wink2.gif I am just getting tired of hearing about some things that, to me at this point seem irrelevant.

Twenty years ago I did some things that I'm not particularly proud of and I wouldn't want them thrown in my face every time I turned around. I'm a completely different person than I was then, and I want to hear more about who they are now.

Thank you for helping protect me when I was young and stupid. wink2.gif

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Michelle, you make a wonderful point. I could care less who did what when. Tell me what you are going to do now.

And don't change your mind every five minutes either!

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I agree with Michelle. This should be left in the past. As a former military person, I used to be very ashamed at former President Clinton for being a draft dodger, but my opinion on that has changed during his second term, and that act didn’t prevent him from being a capable leader.

Whether what is being reported is accurate or not, everyone does stupid things from time to time, and I don’t think someone trying to get out of fighting for a war almost nobody agreed with anyway-30 something years ago-disqualifies that person from the presidency.

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The problem with it is that he chose to send troops to war. If he used connections to avoid the draft and didn't bother to show up how does he have the moral right to send troops to war?

I couldn't stand Clinton either. He had no right to send troops to combat.

If you avoid service during a time of war you should have no right to send troops to war.

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I agree with Michelle also, I am tired of hearing about there military records.

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If you avoid service during a time of war you should have no right to send troops to war.

260805[/snapback]

Although you make a very good point, I think due to it being so long ago, it shouldn’t matter at this point. People change in time, and time changes people…or something like that

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You're so right Homer!!!! Does anybody think it would make any difference if either one of them said that they deeply regreted what they had done? tongue.gif

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Okay let me put it like this. IF Bush is a draft dodger, that means he avoided going to the war. Now the way the military works that means one extra name had to be pulled to replace Bush. That person had to face a situation that may have caused his death while Bush was sitting at home. What gives anybody the right to say that one life is more important than anothers. If Bush did, he basically said my life is more important than yours.

I would not send somebody else to do my duty. I have the honor to carry it out myself. If I die so be it, I'll do it with honor and integrity.

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If he used connections to avoid the draft and didn't bother to show up how does he have the moral right to send troops to war?

used his connections to avoid the draft?

he was in the National Guard...he also fullfilled above what his requirements were (he made up for the time he missed) but little facts like that aren't important

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WASHINGTON - Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam.

AP Photo

CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript — a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" — as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without showing up for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on Aug. 1, 1972.

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New Bush military memos released

New memos state President George W Bush was suspended from flying for the Texas air national guard in Vietnam because he failed to meet their standards.

The documents released by the White House show the suspension also resulted from his failure to take his annual medical test as required.

The memos add details to the row over Mr Bush's military service in the war.

Their release came as Democrats stepped up their criticism of the president for allegedly failing to meet his duties.

With national security a key issue in the US presidential elections on 2 November, supporters of Mr Bush and Democratic nominee John Kerry are attacking each candidate's Vietnam records.

The BBC's Justin Webb in Washington says the Vietnam obsession is tiresome to many Americans, but it does matter, because both campaigns are using it to highlight what they believe are character defects in their opponents.

Republicans have attacked Mr Kerry's war service and Democrats have accused the president of ducking the draft call in favour of less dangerous duties.

We know John Kerry was in Vietnam," Democratic Party chief Terry McAuliffe said after reports that Mr Bush failed to complete required training, but was never disciplined.

"My question to you, Mr President, is, where were you, sir?

The White House has previously released some records to try to refute the charges.

Questions

Mr Bush trained as a pilot while a member of the Texas and Alabama air national guard but never flew in combat.

His suspension came as he was trying to arrange a transfer to a unit in Alabama to work on a political campaign in the state, the Associated Press reported.

Documents already released by the White House show that Mr Bush was suspended from flight status in 1972 for not having a medical test - but do not mention his alleged failure to comply with national guard standards.

CBS TV station reported on Wednesday night that it had obtained documents from Mr Bush's late Texas commander, saying Mr Bush discussed with him how to avoid drills during 1972.

In a memo, Lt Col Jerry Killian also said he was being pressured from his superior to give Mr Bush a positive evaluation.

Mr McAuliffe said Mr Bush's "cover story" is "rapidly unravelling".

But the White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett told CBS that President Bush had met his requirements "at every step of the way".

The White House later released the documents cited in the programme.

The new documents surfaced as the Bush administration released for the first time the president's personal flight logs.

Mr Bush left the national guard in 1973 with an honourable discharge to attend Harvard Business School.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3641192.stm

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if these are found to be forgeries, i wonder what the voter backlash against the dems will be?

hehe letterman is good

Today, John Kerry said that the W in George W Bush stood for wrong

He however is yet to tell us what John Kerry stands for

(not a quote:P but close to it)

hehe

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We all know what Kerry stands for.

Whatever will get him elected. grin2.gif

And there's a big difference between the US Air Force flying combat missions in Vietnam and practice flights for the National Guard(I like to call them Nasty Girls) in the US. The Lt. Governor of Texas from that time has already come out and said that he helped Bush go into the Guard to avoid the draft.

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The Lt. Governor of Texas from that time has already come out and said that he helped Bush go into the Guard to avoid the draft.

261811[/snapback]

The Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes' recollections over how he helped President Bush get into the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War have evolved over the years from fuzzy to distinct.

Barnes, who once claimed he did not help Bush enter the National Guard, reversed his story and told CBS News 60 Minutes that he in fact did help Bush.

Mr. Barnes daughter, Amy Barnes called the Mark Davis Show and spoke with guest host Monica Crowley on WBAP September 9th dismissing Barnes' claims as political and opportunistic.

Excerpt of Call:

BARNES: I love my father very much, but he's doing this for purely political reasons. He is a big Kerry fund-raiser and he is writing a book also. And [the Bush story] is what he's leading the book off with. ... He denied this to me in 2000 that he did get Bush out [of Vietnam service]. Now he's saying he did.

CROWLEY: Did he tell you, Amy – and I'm glad I have you on the line with me – did your father tell you that he was prepared to do this on behalf of John Kerry – go after President Bush like this?

BARNES: He told me he was going to do it. In fact, I talked to him a couple of months ago. He told me he was writing the book. He told me that he was going to be talking about this. And he knows that I – we have very diverse political opinions. He knows my opinions and we get into this debate every time I see him. But, you know, he said that he was going to be talking about it.

CROWLEY: Now you're saying, Amy, that he has had two separate stories on President Bush's Guard duty during the Vietnam era?

BARNES: Yes, yes. This came out in 2000 and I asked him then, at the time, if he [helped get Bush into the Guard]. He said: "No, absolutely not. I did not do that." -

CROWLEY: So, I hate to put you in this position, but I will ask you, do you think your father, Ben Barnes who was on "60 Minutes II" with Dan Rather last night – do you believe that he lied on the air to the American people last night about President Bush?

BARNES; Yes, I do. I absolutely do. And I think he's doing he's doing it for purely political, opportunistic reasons – trying to get John Kerry elected and trying to make Bush look like the bad person. ... Like I said, he's going to be trying to promote his book that he's got coming out.

Link

Also, Barnes was not even Lt Governor at the time he claims he did this. rolleyes.gif

Also - http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=21851

Edited by Kellalor

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It's so sad when kids lie about their parents.

just because daddy didn't love her she has to go out and spread slander about a good upstanding man like her father. laugh.gif

Actually I have no idea on this one. I'll have to read some foreign papers to ever find out the truth.

Damn left-wing right-wing media conspiracy.

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Who gives a rat's ass American ppl are so in the dark ages it is scary!

do you'alll...... know about the typhoon i n asia?

do you'alll...... know about the bomb it indonesia?

All I can say is get a grip on life and research the world's events.

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