Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3
Still Waters

New study claims Turin Shroud is authentic

76 posts in this topic

Italian government scientists have claimed to have discovered evidence that a supernatural event formed the image on the Turin Shroud, believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists.

However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax.

Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic.

"The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said.

And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date."

A statement by lead researcher, Dr Paolo Di Lazzaro, said: "If our results prompt a philosophical or theological debate, these conclusions we'll leave to the experts; to each person's own conscience," he said.

Luigi Garlaschelli, a professor of chemistry at Pavia University, told The Independent: "The implications are... that the image was formed by a burst of UV energy so intense it could only have been supernatural. But I don't think they've done anything of the sort."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shalom in Messiah Yahshua (Jesus). NO,...the holy and divinely-inspired Scriptures do NOT prove that the Shroud of Turin is "fake". How can I say this, when they specifically state that there were more than a single cloth, but at least two pieces?? Guess what, brothers and sisters,...there ARE two pieces of this set of burial linen clothes. One of them is the Shroud of Turin which we already discussed. The OTHER ONE is the face-cloth, called the "Sudarium of Oviedo". The linen fibers of this Sudarium cloth perfectly match the linen fibers of the Shroud. Also, the bloodstains, etc., match. This is adequately and sufficiently explained within the History Channel's "The Face of Jesus" documentary which I already posted for you all to watch. The information is THERE,....if only folks will seek, and THEN they shall find,...rather than making assumptions and keeping the eyes and mind closed to the Truth.

Also,...in case anyone thinks that the Shroud isn't old enough to be genuine, there is evidence indicating that coins were placed over the dead Man's eyes, and the markings are a match for Pontius Pilate's coins from A.D. 29, and this crucifixion is believed to have occurred in A.D. 30, which is right within the perfect time-period. Likewise, there are pollen grains, etc., which ONLY originate from one place, Jerusalem, Israel. Personally,...I believe that it takes MORE faith to believe that this Shroud of Turin and the matching face Sudarium cloth are fake,...than it does to believe that they are real genuine confirmations of the holy and inspired Word of Yahweh.

The coins over the Eyes on the Shroud

http://www.freechris...7#axzz1hNxIIiyA

יהוה bless you.

It's your choice believe what you wish

fullywired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I challenge ANYONE to watch this fact-based documentary (with an OPEN mind) which provides AMPLE evidence confirming that Messiah Yahshua (Christ Jesus) DID exist and rose from the dead.

Edited by JonnyBeGoode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be it discussions on the shroud, the star of Bethleham, NDE, or the light during meditation, I feel you would enjoy the 101 Light Verses page at my other website.

I always thought the mention of light was a symbolic gesture in the Christian faith. After all that I learned writing the book, I now feel most of the time it is meant to be literal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said.

I thought the shroud color was confirmed to be due to human blood? Is this no longer the case?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I challenge ANYONE to watch this fact-based documentary

Lee Strobel presents opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hypotheses oughtn't to be limited to "this is Jesus" and "this is fake."

Medieval Roman Catholic origin, a main reason for a Protestant culture to suspect fakery, is also consistent with the rise of interest in stigmata, which are medically real wounds on real life contemporary people that are similar to Jesus' injuries as described in the Gospels. The first surviving record of a spontaneous European stigmatic is Francis of Assissi,

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14294b.htm

His affliction appeared more than a century before the first undisputed display of the cloth, by Geoffrey de Charny in 1356.

There is no reason to think that Francis was the first Christian stigmatic. A reference to stigmata, and portrayal of them as indicators of spiritual authority or distinction, appears in the very earliest Christian literature, Galatians 6: 17,

Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.

Although stigmata have a religious interpretation, there is no reason to believe that they are of any origin other than natural. Psychological causes are possible for unexplained stigmata, and any nail will do the trick. It is not even necessarily the case that an early stigmatic was trying to mimic a miracle. It is a plausible act of devotion, a consciously chosen imitation of Christ, perhaps a penance or punishment.

So, it is entirely possible that this is the authentic shroud of a European stigmatic, "fake" only in being accepted as someone else's shroud. None of the owners since 1356 would have had much incentive to correct the mistake, assuming they even knew whose shroud it really was.

Crucially, it would not be fake in the sense of being a deliberate attempt to create a relic of a European Jesus for a quick profit in the European market. This seems shaky in light of the many failures to replicate the image in searches limited to methods that are economical in time and other resources, on the assumption that the image was made for economic reasons.

Early on, the hypothesis was reasonable enough, given the cloth's provenance, but it has been tested, and hasn't panned out. While it may yet be true, it's worthwhile to consider other alternative naturalistic explanations. Bodily decomposition is complicated and quirky, and interactions with whatever chemicals may ever have come in contact with the cloth, before or after its encounter with a dead European man, possibly for years in unknown conditions, makes a huge search space, one which has hardly been surveyed so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not disagree with your comment on there being many possible explanations for the Shroud, eb. However, the common claim is that it is the Shroud of Jesus. Given that is the claim generally associated with the word 'authentic', the dichotomy "this is Jesus" and "this is fake" is not a false one.

One point I would like to note regarding your claim it may be authentic, in the sense it is a burial shroud. The image on the shroud is not consistent with the notion it was formed when wrapped around a human body. The image on the shroud is a 2-D representation of how a human profile would appear from a frontal view.

As for there being signs of human blood/bodily fluids comprising part of the image, it is not unknown for artists to use bodily essences - their own, or those of others - in their art.

Edited by Leonardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So has it got Jesus blood on it, like DNA and stuff? Do you think it's long overdue a wash? I'd say 60°C wash with a non-bio.

Clone him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not disagree with your comment on there being many possible explanations for the Shroud, eb. However, the common claim is that it is the Shroud of Jesus. Given that is the claim generally associated with the word 'authentic', the dichotomy "this is Jesus" and "this is fake" is not a false one.

I won't insist on my phraseology. If we can agree what the phrases mean, then I'm comfortable with you calling them whatever you like.

One point I would like to note regarding your claim it may be authentic, in the sense it is a burial shroud. The image on the shroud is not consistent with the notion it was formed when wrapped around a human body. The image on the shroud is a 2-D representation of how a human profile would appear from a frontal view.

If it were European, rather than Palestinian, then it is unclear how the body would be disposed relative to the cloth (and even if Palestinian, how much different "wrapped" would be from "bagged" or even "tarped" under the hasty conditions of Jesus' supposed entombment).

Furthermore, what we have before us is an image now, but that could be epiphenomenal to whatever process is disclosed by the discoloration. This could be differential digestion of fibers by bacteria supported differently by seepage through the mass of the fabric over the course of decades, for all I know.

I'm just reluctant to leap from "It couldn't have been made instantly without a laser" to "It must have been made instantly by the light of Jesus resuming life."

Merry Christmas, Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Merry Christmas, Leo.

And to you, eb. :santa:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um,...(ahem),...I just shared within one of my posts earlier today that there ARE two separate pieces of cloth which MATCH perfectly in linen fibers, blood stains, etc. The Bible and Jewish tradition of burying the dead IS accurate portrayed,...and these two burial cloth pieces (Shroud of Turin AND the Sudarium face-cloth) ARE a confirmation of this Truth.

sorry. I did not notice you had made a post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um,...(ahem),...I just shared within one of my posts earlier today that there ARE two separate pieces of cloth which MATCH perfectly in linen fibers, blood stains, etc. The Bible and Jewish tradition of burying the dead IS accurate portrayed,...and these two burial cloth pieces (Shroud of Turin AND the Sudarium face-cloth) ARE a confirmation of this Truth.

Burial Rituals

In the day of Jesus, Jewish society was incredibly structured. Every aspect of life was precisely defined and controlled by religious beliefs. This organization of life included burial rituals. The Bible is even very clear on this matter. John 19:38-40 is very precise in indicating that Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus prepared Jesus' body in the manner of the Jews for proper burial. This procedure involves extensive wrapping of the body, while including a LOT of myrrh and aloes that would get placed between the various layers of cloth. Specifically, John 19:40 says that "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury."

The amount of myrrh and aloes used in this ritual was a sign of the respect for that individual. It was common to use great quantities of spices for embalming the dead. When Rabbi Gamaliel died around the same time, 80 pounds of spices were used in preparing his body. The same general situation is known regarding the death of Aristobulus. So the hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes mentioned in John 19:39 is generally in line with other highly respected people of the time.

Merrill Tenney describes the Jewish custom as follows: In preparing a body for burial according to Jewish custom, it was usually washed and straightened, and then bandaged tightly from the armpits to the ankles in strips of linen about a foot wide. Aromatic spices, often of a gummy consistency, were placed between the wrappings or folds. They served partially as a preservative and partially as a cement to glue the cloth wrappings into a solid covering. (from: The Reality of the Resurrection).

In some parts of Syria, this burial custom is still observed. In both the ancient and modern procedure, and in the description of the custom, the head was never wrapped in such a way and the face would remain uncovered. It is very likely that the neck and upper shoulders were also not wrapped in the linen strips.

The spices, the myrrh and the aloes, may have been placed dry or in the gummy consistency mentioned above. If they were placed dry between the various layers and folds of the linen, in the case of Jesus, it would not seem that we would still have the 'glue' effect mentioned above. However, in addition, a semi-liquid unguent such as nard was initially used to anoint the body. The effect of this would be to cause the powdered myrrh and aloes near the body to strongly adhere to the body and to the layers of linen. Outer layers of myrrh and the aloes might have remained as a dry powder.

The point being made here is that in either case, this complex and involved wrapping of many narrow strips of cloth would naturally have stuck together so strongly as to effectively make a relatively rigid 'cocoon' around the body.

The head and hair were anointed with the nard unguent, but the powdered spices do not appear to have been applied to the head or face. A small separate 'face cloth' or 'napkin' was generally placed on the face or around the head. John 20:7 refers to this separate cloth, so this aspect of the custom was definitely used regarding Jesus. Rather than ONE piece of cloth, certainly at least two separate pieces are described here.

Several points should be noted. A HUNDRED POUNDS of myrrh and aloes were applied during the burial preparation. If a single sheet, such as the Shroud of Turin was used as the burial cloth, how could they have applied such a great amount of spices? Jewish custom did not involve using a single cloth, but rather a number of long strips of linen that were tightly wrapped many times around the body. The presence of the myrrh and the nard would have made the burial clothes become extremely rigid. The burial clothes were never extended to cover the head or face but only wrapped the body.

The Shroud of Turin contradicts each of these known facts. It purports to show both the body and head and face of Jesus. It purports to be a single loose layer of cloth under and over the body, which is very different from the Jewish custom that was actually followed. Actually, such a burial would have been extremely disrespectful of Jesus, something that Joseph of Arimathaea would certainly not have done or allowed. No matter how carefully strips were wrapped around the body, it would be impossible to get a full body image, even if the face was not included. The Shroud of Turin is apparently not as physically rigid as the burial clothes of Jesus had to have been. It is not saturated with great amounts of myrrh and aloes, although it could be argued that such materials may have evaporated over the centuries (but precise chemical analysis should still show their presence, considering the original amount of 100 pounds, almost comparable to the body weight of Jesus Himself!).

http://mb-soft.com/public/shroud.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not too new on this planet, meaning I've traveled and seen a whole lot. I've seldom seen his love mercy and grace... on the other end I've encounter much of his nemesis.

Oh yes me too!! Hate & hopelessness to the core! Either in sleep paralysis or just in reality no tricks... but CHRIST's Love grace & mercy always pulls me out just in time and it over shadows it so far.... His peace is amazing!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Turin Shroud could not have been faked, say scientists

http://www.montrealgazette.com/story_print.html?id=5883796&sponsor=

A new study suggests that one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics - the Turin Shroud - is not a medieval forgery and could be the burial robe of Christ. Pictured, Father Vince Gulikers examines a replica of the Shroud of Turin that was on display in Windsor.

Photograph by: Dan Janisse, The Windsor StarA new study suggests that one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics - the Turin Shroud - is not a medieval forgery and could be the burial robe of Christ.

Italian scientists conducted a series of experiments that they said showed that the marks on the shroud - purportedly left by the imprint of Christ's body - could not have been faked with technology that was available in medieval times.

Although they stopped short of offering a non-scientific explanation for the phenomenon, their findings will be embraced by those who believe that the marks on the shroud were miraculously created at the moment of Christ's Resurrection.

Edited by Still Waters
Copied text shortened

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Burial Rituals

In the day of Jesus, Jewish society was incredibly structured. Every aspect of life was precisely defined and controlled by religious beliefs. This organization of life included burial rituals. The Bible is even very clear on this matter. John 19:38-40 is very precise in indicating that Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus prepared Jesus' body in the manner of the Jews for proper burial. This procedure involves extensive wrapping of the body, while including a LOT of myrrh and aloes that would get placed between the various layers of cloth. Specifically, John 19:40 says that "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury."

The amount of myrrh and aloes used in this ritual was a sign of the respect for that individual. It was common to use great quantities of spices for embalming the dead. When Rabbi Gamaliel died around the same time, 80 pounds of spices were used in preparing his body. The same general situation is known regarding the death of Aristobulus. So the hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes mentioned in John 19:39 is generally in line with other highly respected people of the time.

Merrill Tenney describes the Jewish custom as follows: In preparing a body for burial according to Jewish custom, it was usually washed and straightened, and then bandaged tightly from the armpits to the ankles in strips of linen about a foot wide. Aromatic spices, often of a gummy consistency, were placed between the wrappings or folds. They served partially as a preservative and partially as a cement to glue the cloth wrappings into a solid covering. (from: The Reality of the Resurrection).

In some parts of Syria, this burial custom is still observed. In both the ancient and modern procedure, and in the description of the custom, the head was never wrapped in such a way and the face would remain uncovered. It is very likely that the neck and upper shoulders were also not wrapped in the linen strips.

The spices, the myrrh and the aloes, may have been placed dry or in the gummy consistency mentioned above. If they were placed dry between the various layers and folds of the linen, in the case of Jesus, it would not seem that we would still have the 'glue' effect mentioned above. However, in addition, a semi-liquid unguent such as nard was initially used to anoint the body. The effect of this would be to cause the powdered myrrh and aloes near the body to strongly adhere to the body and to the layers of linen. Outer layers of myrrh and the aloes might have remained as a dry powder.

The point being made here is that in either case, this complex and involved wrapping of many narrow strips of cloth would naturally have stuck together so strongly as to effectively make a relatively rigid 'cocoon' around the body.

The head and hair were anointed with the nard unguent, but the powdered spices do not appear to have been applied to the head or face. A small separate 'face cloth' or 'napkin' was generally placed on the face or around the head. John 20:7 refers to this separate cloth, so this aspect of the custom was definitely used regarding Jesus. Rather than ONE piece of cloth, certainly at least two separate pieces are described here.

Several points should be noted. A HUNDRED POUNDS of myrrh and aloes were applied during the burial preparation. If a single sheet, such as the Shroud of Turin was used as the burial cloth, how could they have applied such a great amount of spices? Jewish custom did not involve using a single cloth, but rather a number of long strips of linen that were tightly wrapped many times around the body. The presence of the myrrh and the nard would have made the burial clothes become extremely rigid. The burial clothes were never extended to cover the head or face but only wrapped the body.

The Shroud of Turin contradicts each of these known facts. It purports to show both the body and head and face of Jesus. It purports to be a single loose layer of cloth under and over the body, which is very different from the Jewish custom that was actually followed. Actually, such a burial would have been extremely disrespectful of Jesus, something that Joseph of Arimathaea would certainly not have done or allowed. No matter how carefully strips were wrapped around the body, it would be impossible to get a full body image, even if the face was not included. The Shroud of Turin is apparently not as physically rigid as the burial clothes of Jesus had to have been. It is not saturated with great amounts of myrrh and aloes, although it could be argued that such materials may have evaporated over the centuries (but precise chemical analysis should still show their presence, considering the original amount of 100 pounds, almost comparable to the body weight of Jesus Himself!).

http://mb-soft.com/public/shroud.html

I just watched a documentary and it may well be old and wrong....but would christ have had his burial shroud put on the Jewish way or the Roman prisoner way....?....a Roman prisoner allegedly was wrapped naked after a crucifiction...as is the shroud....a Jewish burial is not.....that still doesn't make it Christ but maybe of the period...?..or has this been shown to be untrue....

Edited by BrianPotter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just watched a documentary and it may well be old and wrong....but would christ have had his burial shroud put on the Jewish way or the Roman prisoner way....?....a Roman prisoner allegedly was wrapped naked after a crucifiction...as is the shroud....a Jewish burial is not.....that still doesn't make it Christ but maybe of the period...?..or has this been shown to be untrue....

The bible tells us of the method

fullywired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bible tells us of the method

fullywired

Is the method Jewish or Roman that the bible mentions.....?...does the Bible state Roman burial techniques...?...im not being rude Wired...i have no interest in religion....i do have an interest in history though....i would like to know if there was any truth in the burial techniques....i e Roman prisoners were buried naked...?....seriously i would like to know your view as you seem knowledgeable..im being genuine..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the method Jewish or Roman that the bible mentions.....?...does the Bible state Roman burial techniques...?...im not being rude Wired...i have no interest in religion....i do have an interest in history though....i would like to know if there was any truth in the burial techniques....i e Roman prisoners were buried naked...?....seriously i would like to know your view as you seem knowledgeable..im being genuine..

From what I have read Roman crucifixion bodies were not buried at all ,they were left to rot on the cross as a warning to others

Remember Jesus was a Jew and it was Jews who buried him not Romans and according to the bible they used the Jewish method.

fullywired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I have read Roman crucifixion bodies were not buried at all ,they were left to rot on the cross as a warning to others

Remember Jesus was a Jew and it was Jews who buried him not Romans and according to the bible they used the Jewish method.

fullywired

Thank you for that Wired....i thought that they left them but the documentary claimed that Roman prisoners were wrapped naked like the shroud....ah well...never believe what you watch...thanks again..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope this is helpful...

Other old transcripts that were not included in the Western Christian Canon nor the Coptic Canon reveal the respect the Romans had for local religions* as long as the people of that religion acknowledged the emperor as a god. (I realize that we all already know the respect part of that statement).

Thus, we are told the oral tradition up until the writings, that at noon it had gotten so dark that the soldiers in charge of the crucifixion of the three men were in fear that they would have a situation on their hands--of not removing the crucified dead prior to sunset, as the local religious law stated must be done, "'...the sun must not set on one who has been killed.'** "***

So, the guards gave "...him gall mixed with vinegar to drink."*** to hasten his death. "Then they pulled the nails from the Lord's hands and placed him on the ground. All the ground shook and everyone was terrified. Then the sun shown and it was found to be three in the afternoon."***

The Jews "gave his body to Joseph that he might bury him... He took the Lord, washed him, wrapped him in linen cloth, and brought him into his own tomb, called then Garden of Joseph."*** It goes on to say that the authorities were in fear of a riot and harm to themselves because they heard the population murmuring against them. So they went to Pilot to request that guards be placed to stand guard of the contents of the tomb and that its entrance be sealed to, "...keep his disciples from coming to steal him. Otherwise the people may assume he has been raised from the dead and then harm us."***

So the centurion Petroius and soldiers went with the elders and scribes to the crypt. everyone who was there rolled the stone in front of the entrance and "seven seals" were "smeared" on it.***

Then it says, Mary Magdalene, for fear of the crowds "...had not done at the Lord's crypt the things that women customarily do for loved ones who die. ... 'Even though we were not able to weep and beat our breasts on the day he was crucified, we [the ladies she gathered] should do these things now at his crypt. But who will roll away the stone...["we are afraid someone will see us trying to do so"]...We will leave everything at the stone "as a memorial. When they arrived they found the tomb opened."

Likewise, that Gospel says Jesus's followers were just as paranoid in that they, "were grieving and went into hiding, wounded in heart. For we were being sought out by them as if we were evil doers who wanted to burn the Temple. Because of these things we fasted and sat mourning and weeping, night and day, until the Sabbath."***

---------

I understand the crucifixions were held next to the garbage dump/tip of the city. So that they could easily dispose of the bodies covering them with local garbage and also not cause any worse of a smell.

---------

Thus, the exception of leaving the bodies on the crosses for a warning and for the ravens to consume, in the case of crucifixions in this local region. Perhaps that is why there was uprising after uprising, the public did not have the emanate threat of crucifixion reminding them.

As I am currently reading Ehrman's book I probably should note other portions that may be of interest to those discussing this OP:

Concerning the Gospel According to the Hebrews a quote found in Jerome's Illustrious Men [[Jerome says and the gospel says,]] "...records the following after the Savior's resurrection: 'But when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, he went and appeared to James.' "

Anyway, so I hope this helps us better understand the shroud discussion.

_________

* Lost Scriptures by Bart D. Ehrman [containing some 40 books of the Apocrypha.

** Deut. 21:22-23

*** Quotes and facts from The Gospel of Peter as translated by Bart D. Ehrman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look good enough it's like you see two horns coming from his head, lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look good enough it's like you see two horns coming from his head, lol

I have remained silent, as I will from now on but this, well, enough please. I ask some respect. Your statement is way overboard. Mods, just delete this reply. I would just as soon remain silent from now on. I enjoy this site but things like this are getting out of hand for me. Thanks, Robbie333

Edited by Robbie333

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope this is helpful...

Other old transcripts that were not included in the Western Christian Canon nor the Coptic Canon reveal the respect the Romans had for local religions* as long as the people of that religion acknowledged the emperor as a god. (I realize that we all already know the respect part of that statement).

Thus, we are told the oral tradition up until the writings, that at noon it had gotten so dark that the soldiers in charge of the crucifixion of the three men were in fear that they would have a situation on their hands--of not removing the crucified dead prior to sunset, as the local religious law stated must be done, "'...the sun must not set on one who has been killed.'** "***

So, the guards gave "...him gall mixed with vinegar to drink."*** to hasten his death. "Then they pulled the nails from the Lord's hands and placed him on the ground. All the ground shook and everyone was terrified. Then the sun shown and it was found to be three in the afternoon."***

The Jews "gave his body to Joseph that he might bury him... He took the Lord, washed him, wrapped him in linen cloth, and brought him into his own tomb, called then Garden of Joseph."*** It goes on to say that the authorities were in fear of a riot and harm to themselves because they heard the population murmuring against them. So they went to Pilot to request that guards be placed to stand guard of the contents of the tomb and that its entrance be sealed to, "...keep his disciples from coming to steal him. Otherwise the people may assume he has been raised from the dead and then harm us."***

So the centurion Petroius and soldiers went with the elders and scribes to the crypt. everyone who was there rolled the stone in front of the entrance and "seven seals" were "smeared" on it.***

Then it says, Mary Magdalene, for fear of the crowds "...had not done at the Lord's crypt the things that women customarily do for loved ones who die. ... 'Even though we were not able to weep and beat our breasts on the day he was crucified, we [the ladies she gathered] should do these things now at his crypt. But who will roll away the stone...["we are afraid someone will see us trying to do so"]...We will leave everything at the stone "as a memorial. When they arrived they found the tomb opened."

Likewise, that Gospel says Jesus's followers were just as paranoid in that they, "were grieving and went into hiding, wounded in heart. For we were being sought out by them as if we were evil doers who wanted to burn the Temple. Because of these things we fasted and sat mourning and weeping, night and day, until the Sabbath."***

---------

I understand the crucifixions were held next to the garbage dump/tip of the city. So that they could easily dispose of the bodies covering them with local garbage and also not cause any worse of a smell.

---------

Thus, the exception of leaving the bodies on the crosses for a warning and for the ravens to consume, in the case of crucifixions in this local region. Perhaps that is why there was uprising after uprising, the public did not have the emanate threat of crucifixion reminding them.

As I am currently reading Ehrman's book I probably should note other portions that may be of interest to those discussing this OP:

Concerning the Gospel According to the Hebrews a quote found in Jerome's Illustrious Men [[Jerome says and the gospel says,]] "...records the following after the Savior's resurrection: 'But when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, he went and appeared to James.' "

Anyway, so I hope this helps us better understand the shroud discussion.

_________

* Lost Scriptures by Bart D. Ehrman [containing some 40 books of the Apocrypha.

** Deut. 21:22-23

*** Quotes and facts from The Gospel of Peter as translated by Bart D. Ehrman

Thank you for that Encouraged...that explains a lot...could i ask you...would Joseph have wrapped him in the Jewish way or the Roman way...?...i ask this because under a dictatorship...you follow the dictator..

im probably wrong in my thoughts...,,btw...i do not think the shroud is christ...just of the time..

Edited by BrianPotter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

would Joseph have wrapped him in the Jewish way or the Roman way...?...i ask this because under a dictatorship...you follow the dictator..

im probably wrong in my thoughts...,,btw...i do not think the shroud is Christ...just of the time..

In what seems to be the small portion of the Gospel of Peter that we have remaining, the narrative starts of with Herod saying that they could take Jesus and do as they wish to him. Then it says that when Joseph, who was a friend of both Pilot and of Jesus, when Joseph heard they were going to crucify him, he asked if he could have the body when they was done, so that he could bury him.

Thus, it seems he could have done either as easily as the other. The respect for the religious practices would give permission for the Jewish way. The status of the people governing a land would tend to influence the governing's way of doing things. (In our translation work, we have found out the hard way about the influence of status through village surveys. It is linked directly to acceptance. We do the work first with those of the highest status.) However, the occupying force was not appreciated.

Nothing says what kind of wrapping was done. However, saying that Joseph wrapped the body inclines me to think he did not merely cover the body, although the linen wrapping around the end is also a wrap.

Although the crucifixion was done in a hurry when they thought time had gotten away from them, there was plenty of time during the crucifixion to have his servants or for he himself to gather the goods needed for burial. And then three to sunset to prepare the body.

All of that to say, I have no idea! But I will continue to watch for clues as I continue to read the book.

One can not help but wonder what effect there was on him as a child living close to a village that was wiped out by the Romans because the village kept repeatedly rebelling against Rome. How many of those people did he see or know got crucified? Did he feel that would be his fate if he did or even if he did not obey his God? Or were they in Egypt at the time of that event?

Edited by encouraged

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.