The Philosophers God vs. the God of the Bible

[Mr Walker]

name='Sherapy' timestamp='1329342122' post='4205303']

The g-d you speak of fits the perimeters you have deemed 'g-d' like. With that being said I agree with you that there are models for various g-ds. It seems as if you have picked ethical monotheism as your standard based on the g-d that fits your experiences the closest. Correct?

Just as humans agree that a tree has certain characteristics we agree that a god has certain parameters or characteristics. So, when i see a tree i know it is a tree. When i see a god i know it is a god. Same taxonomic process. You are correct that I perceive "my" god as ethical, based on his words and actions, and also apparently singular, although this is an unknown. I have always been an ethical humanist and i have found 'my god to also be an ethical humanist. No suprise there.

IMO, in my interpretation, from inference, I think this is what Leo is suggesting.. (I could be wrong though.)

Maybe, but it seemed to me that he was advancing the old argument that, because we all percieve diferrent gods, they are individual constructs, and this is proof that no one singular entity exists. That is not so IMO. I maintain one individual, independent, real god exists, but that we all encounter and perceive it in differnt ways.

For you, IMU (in my understanding) the g-d you 'know' has certain attributes that you classify as g-d like, in other words according to you g-d is a certain way. IMO

In part, but it must also fit the universal human appelations of a god. There would be no point me claiming my dog was a god because it has no godly characteristics, and while my cat THINKS it is a god, it is not, either. I can't claim a cat is a dog either. We have linguistic /symbolic attachments to those labels which prevent me doing so.

IMO, this doesn't take away from your personal interpretation, or lessen it or discredit it for me what it does IMO is remind me to consider that for every person there can be a different interpretation of g-d or lack of for that matter just as Leo suggests.

Of course That is almos tinevitable But I am taling percetions of a real and physicla god. I believe Leo is talking about how/why humans construct individual concepts of god, and have no real entity on which to make a comparative analysis.

Jor el, very interesting thread.

I'd contribute by saying I think Leo brings in a great point, while yes, there are those that ascribe to one or the other and a great conversation can be harvested, (as outlined in your OP) again for me, I think it is personal preference on what sticks based on ones own understanding more then it is a matter of what religion says or what Philosophy says then concluding with picking the right one.

For me the point is the value that can be gleaned from the many perspectives and for me it's in the biggest picture possible I find the greatest value .

[me-wonders]

Original christianity was all about a personal relationship between christ/god and a person. It still should be, and can be, because christ/ god is in us, and al around us, and remains as accesible to a person today as to moses or paul. It was never intended that a church or authority should take to itself the exclusive understandings and authority of christ. It is natural, given human nature , that this happened, but a personal, real and physical god can only enhance individual resposnsiblity and ethics . One must do what god tells one to do if one is part of such a god, not what a church or priest or doctrine tells you to do. A person can find god in themselves, in the world around them, or in the words of wise men.

In christianity the word of god is distilled into the writings of the bible. But all one really needs to do to be a christian is listen to christ and live like him. And there are many other paths to god which work equally effectively.

God is the ultimate liberator of human beings, individually, and perhaps collectively.As the reformation discovered/demonstrated, no human authority can override the personal relationship between a person and god

I enjoy your explanation, but want to point a distinct difference in believing in the God of Abraham, or believing Cicero's understanding of God. Cicero's understanding of God, is that the consequences of our actions are what they are, and we can not change them by sacrificing to the gods, burning candles or saying prayers.

Incorporated in this concept of God, is if you want to help someone, you actually have to do something for them, rather than say a prayer for the person and leave it at that. The Christian practice of saying prayers for people, and acting as though that is equal to actually giving someone help, really annoys me. God stopped sending birds to feed people, a few years ago. I am concerned that Christianity interferes with some people's ability to deal with reality effectively.

I think the important question to ask is not, what is God, but rather, how does God work?

Edited February 21, 2012 by me-wonders

[+Sherapy]

I enjoy your explanation, but want to point a distinct difference in believing in the God of Abraham, or believing Cicero's understanding of God. Cicero's understanding of God, is that the consequences of our actions are what they are, and we can not change them by sacrificing to the gods, burning candles or saying prayers.

Incorporated in this concept of God, is if you want to help someone, you actually have to do something for them, rather than say a prayer for the person and leave it at that. The Christian practice of saying prayers for people, and acting as though that is equal to actually giving someone help, really annoys me. God stopped sending birds to feed people, a few years ago. I am concerned that Christianity interferes with some people's ability to deal with reality effectively.

I think the important question to ask is not, what is God, but rather, how does God work?

Until recently I would of agreed with your post. In fact, I used to say prayer is the equivalent of doing nothing. All I was saying was for me it was not my preferred method of help.

Nota bene:Not to say I don't have any concerns,but just that my concerns would be alerted if one had to be indoctrinated into a specified belief system in order to receive help or else couldn't get it.

A very good friend of mine who just lost her beloved sister to cancer told me after I asked her if she was okay, i.e. If I could be of help in any way with the grieving process.She told me she was fine she had her faith to get her through. It was as sincere as when I said many years ago, after losing my sister, that 'grief' therapy( in the form of psychoanalysis) was helping me. I literally discussed my dreams and learned to interpret them in a way that helped me with the grieving process. Go figure.

I think we have to use great care when we dismiss the idea that for some people prayer may be their way of helping or being helped. Just as keeping a dream journal and exploring it with an analyst helped me.. Just my 2 cents. Of course I could be wrong.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

name='me-wonders' timestamp='1329858840' post='4210846']

I enjoy your explanation, but want to point a distinct difference in believing in the God of Abraham, or believing Cicero's understanding of God. Cicero's understanding of God, is that the consequences of our actions are what they are, and we can not change them by sacrificing to the gods, burning candles or saying prayers.

Thank you. But i tend to differ with cicero, perhaps because of my own relationship with god. God IS an interventionist deity. If we can get him to change his mind, he can change his actions . Yalking with god is all it requires He works the same way with us By talking to us he helps us make wider choices and do/live better.

Incorporated in this concept of God, is if you want to help someone, you actually have to do something for them, rather than say a prayer for the person and leave it at that. The Christian practice of saying prayers for people, and acting as though that is equal to actually giving someone help, really annoys me.

While I absolutely agree with the first part of this and see it as a part of modrn christianity to BE a christian; to give, to help, to share etc., I know it can also be very helpful and beneficial for a person to be prayed for.

When I had my heart tripleby pass, I was helped by three things. The excellence of my physicians and nursing staff, the intercession of god in angelic form, and the prayers of many people. The latter comforted me as I lay in a hospital ward hundreds of miles form anyone I knew.

One should never pray for anyone without their permission, because the power of prayer is so great and powerful. I have had it completely remove excruciating pain from my body, and heal damaged muscle tissue, for example. And it may not be emoguh JUST to pray. But prayer is a powerful physical and psychological force for many people on the recieving end of it.

God stopped sending birds to feed people, a few years ago. I am concerned that Christianity interferes with some people's ability to deal with reality effectively.

My reality ncludes a real physicla and powerful intercessionary god , so I must beg to differ with you. In my life god contines to provide power manna money and indeed life force. Nonetheless you have a point. I help peole practically as a first priority ,although with their permision I may pray for them also. That may be a prayer for them to have courage or peace. It might be for them to get well

God, existing in me and in others, and in the world around us, is linked; and so my 'life force' and prayers can work on others. (I must admit i dont pray much myself because its power does scare me) I do prefer tp help physiclaly, but it amazes me how knowing i care for another personn and love them as I love myself can heal them and help them .

I think the important question to ask is not, what is God, but rather, how does God work?

To me those questions are inseperable because, to me, god works as all real things do. Its function and its form are inseperable. Form follows function and function follows form.

[Mr Walker]

name='me-wonders' timestamp='1329858840' post='4210846']

I enjoy your explanation, but want to point a distinct difference in believing in the God of Abraham, or believing Cicero's understanding of God. Cicero's understanding of God, is that the consequences of our actions are what they are, and we can not change them by sacrificing to the gods, burning candles or saying prayers.

Thank you. But i tend to differ with cicero, perhaps because of my own relationship with god. God IS an interventionist deity. If we can get him to change his mind, he can change his actions . Yalking with god is all it requires He works the same way with us By talking to us he helps us make wider choices and do/live better.

Incorporated in this concept of God, is if you want to help someone, you actually have to do something for them, rather than say a prayer for the person and leave it at that. The Christian practice of saying prayers for people, and acting as though that is equal to actually giving someone help, really annoys me.

While I absolutely agree with the first part of this and see it as a part of modrn christianity to BE a christian; to give, to help, to share etc., I know it can also be very helpful and beneficial for a person to be prayed for.

When I had my heart tripleby pass, I was helped by three things. The excellence of my physicians and nursing staff, the intercession of god in angelic form, and the prayers of many people. The latter comforted me as I lay in a hospital ward hundreds of miles form anyone I knew.

One should never pray for anyone without their permission, because the power of prayer is so great and powerful. I have had it completely remove excruciating pain from my body, and heal damaged muscle tissue, for example. And it may not be emoguh JUST to pray. But prayer is a powerful physical and psychological force for many people on the recieving end of it.

God stopped sending birds to feed people, a few years ago. I am concerned that Christianity interferes with some people's ability to deal with reality effectively.

My reality ncludes a real physicla and powerful intercessionary god , so I must beg to differ with you. In my life god contines to provide power manna money and indeed life force. Nonetheless you have a point. I help peole practically as a first priority ,although with their permision I may pray for them also. That may be a prayer for them to have courage or peace. It might be for them to get well

God, existing in me and in others, and in the world around us, is linked; and so my 'life force' and prayers can work on others. (I must admit i dont pray much myself because its power does scare me) I do prefer tp help physiclaly, but it amazes me how knowing i care for another personn and love them as I love myself can heal them and help them .

I think the important question to ask is not, what is God, but rather, how does God work?

To me those questions are inseperable because, to me, god works as all real things do. Its function and its form are inseperable. Form follows function and function follows form.

[Mr Walker]

name='me-wonders' timestamp='1329858840' post='4210846']

I enjoy your explanation, but want to point a distinct difference in believing in the God of Abraham, or believing Cicero's understanding of God. Cicero's understanding of God, is that the consequences of our actions are what they are, and we can not change them by sacrificing to the gods, burning candles or saying prayers.

Thank you. But i tend to differ with cicero, perhaps because of my own relationship with god. God IS an interventionist deity. If we can get him to change his mind, he can change his actions . Yalking with god is all it requires He works the same way with us By talking to us he helps us make wider choices and do/live better.

Incorporated in this concept of God, is if you want to help someone, you actually have to do something for them, rather than say a prayer for the person and leave it at that. The Christian practice of saying prayers for people, and acting as though that is equal to actually giving someone help, really annoys me.

While I absolutely agree with the first part of this and see it as a part of modrn christianity to BE a christian; to give, to help, to share etc., I know it can also be very helpful and beneficial for a person to be prayed for.

When I had my heart tripleby pass, I was helped by three things. The excellence of my physicians and nursing staff, the intercession of god in angelic form, and the prayers of many people. The latter comforted me as I lay in a hospital ward hundreds of miles form anyone I knew.

One should never pray for anyone without their permission, because the power of prayer is so great and powerful. I have had it completely remove excruciating pain from my body, and heal damaged muscle tissue, for example. And it may not be emoguh JUST to pray. But prayer is a powerful physical and psychological force for many people on the recieving end of it.

God stopped sending birds to feed people, a few years ago. I am concerned that Christianity interferes with some people's ability to deal with reality effectively.

My reality ncludes a real physicla and powerful intercessionary god , so I must beg to differ with you. In my life god contines to provide power manna money and indeed life force. Nonetheless you have a point. I help peole practically as a first priority ,although with their permision I may pray for them also. That may be a prayer for them to have courage or peace. It might be for them to get well

God, existing in me and in others, and in the world around us, is linked; and so my 'life force' and prayers can work on others. (I must admit i dont pray much myself because its power does scare me) I do prefer tp help physiclaly, but it amazes me how knowing i care for another personn and love them as I love myself can heal them and help them .

I think the important question to ask is not, what is God, but rather, how does God work?

To me those questions are inseperable because, to me, god works as all real things do. Its function and its form are inseperable. Form follows function and function follows form.

[ZaraKitty]

Maybe more than one God exists? And everyone's right and can stop killing each other ^__^