booNyzarC Posted May 12, 2012 #1526 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Boo How could they have already been answered here, when I just frigging composed them today? Click the link in the following quote. Let me know if it doesn't address any of your questions. During the initial impact a huge amount of materials, including shredded aluminum from the aircraft itself, was shoved into the north east corner of the building. It's not that big of a mystery Babe Ruth. You might want to watch the video that skyeagle posted which mentions this. (edit) . (/edit) And if you can muster the skill to ask a coherent question, and present it here, I will be happy to answer it. I'll rephrase the following quote into something you may be better able to understand as a question. While you're at it, you might want to watch the videos in the post directly above yours and let us know if you see any of the material rapidly turning into a silvery color. Watch full screen. Do you see any of the material rapidly turning into a silvery color as it is falling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Posted May 13, 2012 #1527 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I posted that aluminum temperature chart for a very good reason. The color of molten aluminum takes on different colors depending on its temperature. Molten Aluminum http://www.basicalum...e=manufacturing http://drjudywood.co...inum_Glows.html . Beautiful. Once again thank you for proving my point and showing how incompetent you are. Let's use your first picture for example. If you actually look at the molten material, not the pot the material in the cast is silver. The pot is iron, heated up so high it has turned orange (like what other items we are discussing?) The orange of the pot lends it's colour to the silver aluminium. You can see the molten aluminium around the the edge of the pot about to pour out is silver at the top and as it moves away from the orange iron, It is no longer orange and is silver. Good one chief. Another point in the CT column thanks to you. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1528 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Beautiful. Once again thank you for proving my point and showing how incompetent you are. Let's use your first picture for example. If you actually look at the molten material, not the pot the material in the cast is silver. The pot is iron, heated up so high it has turned orange (like what other items we are discussing?) The orange of the pot lends it's colour to the silver aluminium. You can see the molten aluminium around the the edge of the pot about to pour out is silver at the top and as it moves away from the orange iron, It is no longer orange and is silver. If you look at the molten aluminum as it flows out of the crucible you will notice the dark color. Using the aluminum temperature chart, what temperature range is that molten aluminum? The temperature chart will tell you that molten aluminum comes in a veriety of colors which is dependent upon its temperature range. Edited May 13, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 13, 2012 #1529 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Do you realize that this sounds like a purely defensive response to something which is potentially threatening to a belief? I don't see why it should be, whether it was aluminum or steel. Oficial story or conspirocy theory, both stories have had to be modified over the years to make some sort of sense as new facts are discovered. I don't see this particulary as a threat to either belief. Maybe a big deal for either one to incorperate, but not a deal breaker per say. I think we can both agree that there were fires going on in that corner. I'm not sure what else you are suggesting beyond that, but don't be too quick to assume that I agree with it unless I expressly communicate that agreement beforehand. Close enough for me to agree. I'm not fighting strongly, I'm merely expressing the opinion I have based on my examination of the available evidence. I do see some of the material rapidly changing to a silvery color. I'm not quite sure why you and others can't seem to see it. I do know that there was a wide variety of materials in the impact zones of the buildings. I do know that mixtures of materials exhibit different visual qualities than pure samples of materials. It seems quite obvious to me that the material pouring out is a mixture comprised of many things including molten aluminum. I'm willing to talk about what it might be. But molten aluminum will be our hangup. I saw another post with video were this was brought up and I'd rather address it there. I find it extremely unlikely that it could be molten steel or iron because of how long it was pouring out. If that were truly a structural element that was melting over all that time, the collapse should have happened right while it was going on don't you think? How long should it take for hypothetical thermite charges to cut through vertical supports? Why would such charges be placed in the corner? Why not just in the core? Surely removing the core would be enough wouldn't it? I'm not an expert on this. Skyeagle is of the opinion you have to preweaken (Cut lots of stuff) before you even attempt to drop a building. That it will stand until the Cu de gra. That may well be what we see. I only say it doesn't have the charecteristcs of molten aluminum. Let's suppose (as Q24 appears to believe if I'm not mistaken) that this was a thermite cutter charge attached to a piece of the core that was dislodged in the initial impact. How much molten steel or iron would be produced for such a charge? Does the amount of expelled material match with that? I don't think it does. How many charges would be needed to produce the observed molten materials? Several at least don't you think? I'm in agreement with Q4 that the core columns needed to be cut. I'm lost on the conversation of a displaced cutter charge. So... no comment on that. I could probably go on, but the point is that it just doesn't make sense. There is one thing does make sense though; A mixture of the many materials that were right there in the middle of the fires -- including aluminum. Mixture of what? Beside aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 13, 2012 #1530 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you look at the molten aluminum as it flows out of the crucible you will notice the dark color. Using the aluminum temperature chart, what temperature range is that molten aluminum? The temperature chart will tell you that molten aluminum comes in a veriety of colors which is dependent upon its temperature range. You do realize that aluminum is like a mirror in that state. Are you absolutly sure you actualy see a color diferention? Or just a reflection? Another thing. If it's red hot, it turns silver after a matter of inches. As has already been pointed out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 13, 2012 #1531 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Watch this full screen. Are you telling me that you can't see a lot of this material rapidly turning into a silvery color after beginning to fall? Edit to add this video: What color is this material? It's as grainy and faint as a bigfoot video! It's something. But it's paltry to the mass of red/yellow material that flows stories down that building. AS little of it that I could see, if it was aluminum, it was probably the clading on the building.(just a guess) It could of been small pieces of rubble pushed out by the flow. But I don't see how this explains the majority of that yellow/red fluid that fell stories along the building holding it's color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1532 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) You do realize that aluminum is like a mirror in that state. Are you absolutly sure you actualy see a color diferention? Yes. Or just a reflection? Another thing. If it's red hot, it turns silver after a matter of inches. As has already been pointed out. It is not a reflection. The aluminum temperature chart lays it out. Molten aluminum comes in a variety of colors, which depends upon its temperature, but those who are not familiar with molten aluminum think that molten aluminum is silver only, which is not the case. Using the aluminum temperature chart, what is the color of molten aluminum at 600 degrees C.? The area of the building where you see the flow is where much of the aircraft came to rest, including the wings and fuselage, which add up to thousands of pounds of aluminum at temperatures beyond the melting point of aluminum. Some people think that what they are seeing is thermite cutting structural columns and that is what caused the collapse, but that isn't true at all. You can cut the columns all day and the building will remain standing and that is where explosives come in. After all, how many of the columns were destroyed or seriously damaged by the impact of the airliners? Did the buildings immediately collapse even though much of the structural integrity of each building was compromised? Of course not and as I have said before, you demolish multiple buildings at the same time, and you don't use thermite. There was no way that anyone could have transported truckloads of thermite and explosves up beyond the 70th floors and not draw attention. As shown before, 1000 pounds of thermite was unable to cut a vehicle in two sections, and over 1000 pounds of explosives were unable to bring down the WTC Tower in 1993. People get the wrong idea that you can simply plant explosives in a steel-framed building and it will collapse, but that isn't true at all. The explosives will knock out the walls and windows, but if explosives are not physically attached to the steel columns and there is no pre-weakening of the structure, explosives are not going to do much of anything else. People need to get out of that Hollywood kind of thinking when it comes to thermite and explosives in regards to the collapse of the WTC buildings. Edited May 13, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1533 Share Posted May 13, 2012 How explosive demoliton is done in the real world, not in Hollywood studios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Posted May 13, 2012 #1534 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You do realize that aluminum is like a mirror in that state. Are you absolutly sure you actualy see a color diferention? Or just a reflection? Another thing. If it's red hot, it turns silver after a matter of inches. As has already been pointed out. That's exactly right, but some people prefer to disregard reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted May 13, 2012 #1535 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Disregarding reality is what it is. Delusional thinking or cognitive dissonance describe the same phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booNyzarC Posted May 13, 2012 #1536 Share Posted May 13, 2012 That's exactly right, but some people prefer to disregard reality. Disregarding reality is what it is. Delusional thinking or cognitive dissonance describe the same phenomenon. Is that what you call your apparent inability to see molten silvery material in that previously referenced ?Is that the name of the problem which describes your apparent inability to recognize that molten steel and molten iron cannot give that silvery appearance? Is that the label which should be applied to people who can't recognize that molten aluminum at the right temperatures is actually orange in color? Is that the description for people who can't seem to see that some of the material coming out in that flow may just be burning or extremely hot and not even molten at all? Is this the same phenomenon that applies to people who ignore the simple fact that there were a whole host of different materials in there which could have contributed to a wide variety of molten mixtures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted May 13, 2012 #1537 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No Boo, those are the terms used to describe the mindset that asks no questions. That consistently gives a presumption of veracity to any and all government stories. That holds an illogical belief in the occurence of the improbable, and denies the existence of certain unpleasant facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czero 101 Posted May 13, 2012 #1538 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No Boo, those are the terms used to describe the mindset that asks no questions. That consistently gives a presumption of veracity to any and all government stories. That holds an illogical belief in the occurence of the improbable, and denies the existence of certain unpleasant facts. Like the "unpleasant facts" that prove your "no plane at Shanksville" claim opinion and the rest of your ludicrous and willfully ignorant claims opinions that ignore reality incorrect...? Disregarding reality is what it is. Delusional thinking or cognitive dissonance describe the same phenomenon. Thank you for perfectly describing your condition. Cz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booNyzarC Posted May 13, 2012 #1539 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No Boo, those are the terms used to describe the mindset that asks no questions. That consistently gives a presumption of veracity to any and all government stories. That holds an illogical belief in the occurence of the improbable, and denies the existence of certain unpleasant facts. Oh, I see. So those terms apply to anyone who disagrees with your version of events. Considering that you didn't directly address any of the specific questions, does that mean that you acknowledge the points embedded in those questions? Here, I'll bulletize™ them for you. There is molten silvery material evident in this . Molten steel and molten iron cannot give that silvery appearance. Molten aluminum at the right temperatures is actually orange in color. Some of the material coming out in that flow may just be burning or extremely hot and not even molten at all. There were a whole host of different materials in there which could have contributed to a wide variety of molten mixtures. Are these valid points or are they irrelevant and/or incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted May 13, 2012 #1540 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No Boo, those are the terms used to describe the mindset that asks no questions. You can ask questions BR, fine, we already know your stance on what happened that day. Also knowing your stance on the government. Ask all the questions you want, problem is most of your questions have already been provided an answer whether you accept the answer or not. That consistently gives a presumption of veracity to any and all government stories. You assume that no plane crashed at Shanksville. You assume no plane hit the pentagon (yet still cannot explain how the light poles where knocked down, OH WAIT, you stated they were knocked down by explosives) Nobody here has stated that we believe the government 100%. That is YOUR assumption. Evidence shows more in favor of the OCT rather than your "fantasy situation". Until you start providing any evidence (which, so far you havent), your smart little posts really show nothing of interest in the discussion. That holds an illogical belief in the occurence of the improbable, and denies the existence of certain unpleasant facts. Improbable to you. Facts state otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1541 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) That's exactly right, but some people prefer to disregard reality. Reality is, that color had nothing to do with reflection and the aluminum temperature color chart summed it up, but I guess you missed the boat on that one.. Pouring molten aluminum http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinnolte/1001900902/ Based on the color of molten aluminum in the above photos, what is the temperature range of the molten aluminum in each photo? Refer to the following color chart. http://www.dongruncasting.com/Capabilities/Pouring_melt_aluminum-1583.htm Edited May 13, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1542 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) No Boo, those are the terms used to describe the mindset that asks no questions. That consistently gives a presumption of veracity to any and all government stories. That holds an illogical belief in the occurence of the improbable, and denies the existence of certain unpleasant facts. Have you ever considered why you have been unable to provide any evidence that refutes the official story? Disregarding reality is what it is. Delusional thinking or cognitive dissonance describe the same phenomenon. That reminds me of when you brought forth a coroner to support your claim that no aircraft crashed at Shanksville. I am very sure you saw the video where he slams the 9/11 CT folks for taking his comments out of context. In case you haven't seen the video, here it is. Would you care to repeat what the coroner, the same person you used as a reference, has said about the 9/11 Bloggers? Edited May 13, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted May 13, 2012 #1543 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Boo For the sake of argument and discussion, I'm happy to stipulate that the metal on the video is whatever metal(s) you want it to be. Suits me fine. Call it gold if you wish. Now, we have the rest of the proverbial BP to consider, and the word 'improbable' looms bigger every paragraph. Common Sense is required to understand 'improbable'. As in, an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted May 13, 2012 #1544 Share Posted May 13, 2012 That reminds me of when you brought forth a coroner to support your claim that no aircraft crashed at Shanksville. I am very sure you saw the video where he slams the 9/11 CT folks for taking his comments out of context. In case you haven't seen the video, here it is. Would you care to repeat what the coroner, the same person you used as a reference, has said about the 9/11 Bloggers? Of course he has seen it......did you not remember his response to it? I would like to spend the time digging it up, however, he did state that "First impression was generally the correct impression" then stated "probably was paid off to change story". I remember the quote being something to that nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booNyzarC Posted May 13, 2012 #1545 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Boo For the sake of argument and discussion, I'm happy to stipulate that the metal on the video is whatever metal(s) you want it to be. Suits me fine. Call it gold if you wish. Now, we have the rest of the proverbial BP to consider, and the word 'improbable' looms bigger every paragraph. Common Sense is required to understand 'improbable'. As in, an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. I'm sure you think that is all very clever, but really it is pretty meaningless. All that you can cling to is this supposed amorphous "bigger picture" which you can't fully define or even begin to substantiate. Each little piece that you think contributes gets chipped away and yet you continue to believe it regardless of the counter evidence. You are the very embodiment of the words that you vainly attempted to ascribe to the people who disagree with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted May 13, 2012 #1546 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Common Sense is required to understand 'improbable'. Common Sense is required Common Sense Sorry I had to break it down like that BR. That was pretty hilarious if you ask me. Again, improbable to you, facts state otherwise. You stated that the passengers from shanksville and the pentagon were paid off by the government to keep quiet. Imagine that? Using what you call "Common Sense is required to understand improbable" , do you really find it probable that hundreds of "missing" passengers can keep quiet this long? You be the judge. Edited May 13, 2012 by RaptorBites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted May 13, 2012 #1547 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Of course he has seen it......did you not remember his response to it? He needs a bit of ribbing from time to time. Edited May 13, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 13, 2012 #1548 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Reality is, that color had nothing to do with reflection and the aluminum temperature color chart summed it up, but I guess you missed the boat on that one.. Pouring molten aluminum http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinnolte/1001900902/ Based on the color of molten aluminum in the above photos, what is the temperature range of the molten aluminum in each photo? Refer to the following color chart. http://www.dongruncasting.com/Capabilities/Pouring_melt_aluminum-1583.htm First picture is of a molten metal being poured, but we can't see into what. It has all of the charecteristics of steel at this moment. This pic is useless. Second picture I'll say looks like aluminum. Look at the sides of the container and it looks like aluminum. The temp on the aluminum is probably around 800 degrees. But you still haven't ever said how fast it cools. Third picture is definitly aluminum. Look at it in the container where it's being poured. Notice how quickly it's cooled to original color. Also notice, it's getting a skin on it in the bucket that resembles aluminum before it's even poured. It's having trouble keeping it's temp. Fourth picture I can't decifer what it is. I find it useless too. Do you just google for pics of molten aluminum and then just post the pics willy nilly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 13, 2012 #1549 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) How explosive demoliton is done in the real world, not in Hollywood studios. Most people that are even halfway interested in this subject, on either side, have probably watched a video or two, mayebe three or four, on how buildings are demolished. Your kinda preaching to the choir on this. The argument is, wether it was done by "controled demolition, or if the towers fell because of the damage done to them. (edited to say I see where you are talking about your opinion, which is what I was asking for, I'll responde to that instead of making you repeat yourself.) Edited May 13, 2012 by W Tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Tell Posted May 14, 2012 #1550 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) It is not a reflection. The aluminum temperature chart lays it out. Molten aluminum comes in a variety of colors, which depends upon its temperature, but those who are not familiar with molten aluminum think that molten aluminum is silver only, which is not the case. Using the aluminum temperature chart, what is the color of molten aluminum at 600 degrees C.?Once again, how fast does it cool?The area of the building where you see the flow is where much of the aircraft came to rest, including the wings and fuselage, which add up to thousands of pounds of aluminum at temperatures beyond the melting point of aluminum. How do you know this? Who told you the majority of the plane came to rest there? Where's the evidence for this?Some people think that what they are seeing is thermite cutting structural columns and that is what caused the collapse, but that isn't true at all. You can cut the columns all day and the building will remain standing and that is where explosives come in. After all, how many of the columns were destroyed or seriously damaged by the impact of the airliners? Did the buildings immediately collapse even though much of the structural integrity of each building was compromised? Of course not and as I have said before, you demolish multiple buildings at the same time, and you don't use thermite.As you said, with all the damage done by the planes the buildings did not fall. It had to be the fires then that collapsed the buildings. There was no way that anyone could have transported truckloads of thermite and explosves up beyond the 70th floors and not draw attention. As shown before, 1000 pounds of thermite was unable to cut a vehicle in two sections, and over 1000 pounds of explosives were unable to bring down the WTC Tower in 1993. Incredible scenarios of "what can't happen" happen all of the time. And that seems to be your whole argument.... that it just couldn't happen. No way some other covert agentcy could be good enough at their jobs to pull off a major job like this. People get the wrong idea that you can simply plant explosives in a steel-framed building and it will collapse, but that isn't true at all. The explosives will knock out the walls and windows, but if explosives are not physically attached to the steel columns and there is no pre-weakening of the structure, explosives are not going to do much of anything else. Here I agree with you. That has to happen for a collapse. No argument. People need to get out of that Hollywood kind of thinking when it comes to thermite and explosives in regards to the collapse of the WTC buildings. Or that fire could cause it's collapse. Straite down and with little resistence. Edited May 14, 2012 by W Tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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