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orangepeaceful79

The REAL reason we don't have BF photos.....

68 posts in this topic

Why does every other animal show up on trail cam photos?

To show bigfoot how it's done.

"See, you just step here, turn, and look surprised."

"Or, you just creep past and look sneaky."

Poor Foots. Just can't get the hang of it though.

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Update - Source of Brett Green's Yowie Photo revealed:

brettgreenyowiehoax.jpg

I am also tenuously linked to this hoax.

In 2009, while independently investigating the infamous “Yowie Attack” claim made by prominent a yowie researcher, I met with Gympie policeman and yowie researcher, Steve Carter, who was part of that particular “expedition”. As an aside, Carter stated that he knew of someone who had actual photographic evidence of the Yowie but would not give out further details. As a police officer, Carter came across as credible but I was also wary because of his close association and complicity with both the “Yowie Attack” hoaxer and local Gympie author, Brett Green, who has a long and well documented history of fabricating evidence to support his outlandish claims and theories. Such is the nature of cryptozoology, I suppose…

Anyhow, in subsequent online conversations Carter kept dropping teasers about these Yowie photographs and their significance but without providing anything that could be verified so it didn’t really interest me. After all, we’ve all seen the games of bait-and-switch employed on these forums by those with incredible claims, right? Finally, he offered to find out some information about a Yowie footprint cast that I was after in exchange for me suggesting a top-line place for photographic analysis. With nothing to lose I suggested http://www.kerrial.com/ and that was the last I ever heard about the alleged Yowie photographs (Carter never lived up to his end of the bargain either) until 2012 when a Yowie book was self-published and included those alleged Yowie photographs – one which can be seen on the cover (above).

Steve Carter: Luckily for Brett and the AYR team, we have had some help along the way as to where to take the photos to authenticate them. In fact, AYR's old friend, "Nightwalker", pointed us in the right direction some years ago now. From the entire AYR team, we say, "Thank-you, Nightwalker!".

http://www.yowiehunt...php?t=4112&f=45

"AYR's old friend" - I feel ill... This is my tenuous link to the hoax.

Green and Carter subsequently claimed that a government raid confiscated Green’s files and negatives but that an ongoing investigation of the original photographs and site was in place and that a third-party analysis by the group I had previously suggested was in the process of validating this amazing evidence. Then the video of Bigfoot figurine surfaced a few days ago. Except for the people actually involved, everything else – the Yowie, the details of the claims, the on-going investigation, the government raid, etc. was pure fiction/fantasy. They never happened...

Such shenanigans are not an aberration but rather are representative of the level and extent of storytelling and fakery which largely sustains the Yowie mythos. If the "experts" can do it on quite a large scale (often claiming multiple, dozens, or even hundreds of sightings) what is stopping others doing likewise on an individual or lesser basis? Could this not account for the vast majority of Yowie claims? (After all, most Yowie claims come from and via these "Yowie experts".) Have we not seen this repeated time and trime again on this forum alone (and across a wide selection of mysterious claims)? Are the people who promote such things and the shenanigans they engage in a big part of the reason why Yowie/Bigfoot claims are not really taken seriously?

Myths are an important part of our identities and social lives. They don’t invent themselves – people invent them and people reinvent them. People just like these “yowie researchers” and their associated circle of friends. This is what folklore is and always has been – the dynamic re-living of belief and tradition. The experience may seem real but any creature is imaginary, fictitious, and incidental to the act of storytelling, the performance of belief.

Aren’t the ongoing shenanigans of the self-proclaimed “experts” the best evidence of the real nature of the Bigfoot phenomenon?

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Aren’t the ongoing shenanigans of the self-proclaimed “experts” the best evidence of the real nature of the Bigfoot phenomenon?

Habituation sites do it for me. I find them the most disturbing of experts' stories. You mention them, your credibility, had you any, evaporates.

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Habituation sites do it for me. I find them the most disturbing of experts' stories. You mention them, your credibility, had you any, evaporates.

Alleged habituation sites have the potential to yield tremendous insights into the Bigfoot phenomenon. On one hand,if Bigfoot is real and clans of them are in regualr contact with select people then the objective evidence of their presence must be overwhelming. On the other, if Bigfoot is fictional/imaginary then this gives us an opportunity to observe exactly what is happening in these alleged habituation sites - how Bigfoot is imagined, fabricated, and experienced...

Bigfoot lives through the people that claim to experience Bigfoot. We can study that and learn from it...

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Alleged habituation sites have the potential to yield tremendous insights into the Bigfoot phenomenon. On one hand,if Bigfoot is real and clans of them are in regualr contact with select people then the objective evidence of their presence must be overwhelming. On the other, if Bigfoot is fictional/imaginary then this gives us an opportunity to observe exactly what is happening in these alleged habituation sites - how Bigfoot is imagined, fabricated, and experienced...

Bigfoot lives through the people that claim to experience Bigfoot. We can study that and learn from it...

I do not believe there is a bigfoot anywhere out there to socialize with, so I'm afraid I don't share all of your optimism.

I've read some of their stories and listened to live audio recordings as they describe or experience their repeated interactions and communication with bigfoot.

It is interesting from a psychological perspective, I agree.

But it gives me the willies.

If they truly believe they are physically communing with bigfoot, they need help, imo. And there is no shame in that.

If they know they are liars, they should be ashamed.

--Some footers spend time out looking. Wondering if this or that could be a sign.

--Others make a profit because they know where the bigfoot are and for some bucks people can experience a sound or a tent rub or FLIR image, exactly like on Finding Bigfoot. Join us, we won't give you much, just a big ambiguous tease for you to define as you please.

--Others talk at length about their regular intimate (not sexual) interactions and communications with bigfoot. I can see believing a sound is a bigfoot reply or bigfoot song, but how do they "believe" they fed bigfoot, or touched bigfoot, or got him to paint a picture (all in their presence)? That can only be delusional or drug induced or a conscious lie, imo.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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And even habituation encounters that are milder in nature, that is with only brief sightings and more sight unseen "gift/food exchange" and "game playing" activity. Listening to them tell their stories is still too bizarre and weak to be taken seriously.

They can film after the fact but not during? Yet make it public?

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Well the reason we can't get a clear picture is simple, they don't exist. Can't take a pic of something that isn't there to begin with.

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Knowing humans, I believe there are plenty out there, all over the world, who if they really had any encounters would have cashed in on it by now.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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The heart of Man is not compound of lies,

but draws some wisdom from the only Wise,

and still recalls him. Though now long estranged,

Man is not wholly lost nor wholly changed.

Dis-graced he may be, yet is not dethroned,

and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned,

his world-dominion by creative act:

not his to worship the great Artefact,

Man, Sub-creator, the refracted light

through whom is splintered from a single White

to many hues, and endlessly combined

in living shapes that move from mind to mind.

Though all the crannies of the world we filled

with Elves and Goblins, though we dared to build

Gods and their houses out of dark and light,

and sowed the seed of dragons, 'twas our right

(used or misused). The right has not decayed.

We make still by the law in which we're made.

Yes! 'wish-fulfilment dreams' we spin to cheat

our timid hearts and ugly Fact defeat!

From JRR Tolkien’s Mythopoeia“To one who said that myths were lies and therefore worthless”

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From JRR Tolkien’s Mythopoeia“To one who said that myths were lies and therefore worthless”

I do not pretend to understand Tolkien and I do not pretend to understand mythology as you well as you do, NW.

What I question is:

While we may learn societal truths from mythological stories themselves or learn about ourselves from the background that surrounds humans and their love/use of myths…

how is this to be accepted or embraced or respected or worthy of anything when the myths come from the scientific realm and not the mythical/philosophical/spiritual one?

I don’t find bigfoot as “enlightening” as even most mythology. In this day and age, I find it disturbing and damaging and nothing more than a con when it comes from science in the form of what we are used to seeing with bigfoot. (Dr. Melba Ketchum admits to witnessing habituated bigfoot!)

Yes, one could say that about any time in man’s history when knowledge has outwitted gods and myths.

But even if social science truths may be there (in myths and philosophies and fiction) for all to see, to teach science through myth I find unacceptable. It is not just the myth of the creature but the mythical pseudo-science that is used as well. And that is what I so strongly object to from the scientists and the laymen in the field.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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When I was younger she was my Queen!

Still mine ;)

But then again, I have no plans to grow up anytime soon.

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Pretty much. The fact that the bfro and other organizations can claim to be experts on something that there is no evidence for to the point where they start xplaining the creatures in terms of their motives for their behavior goes a long way toward showing that they won't let a silly little thing like reality get in the way. But then again when you are just making $h1+ up its easy enough to wrap up every little detail in a nice lil package. no Bigfoot bodies? That's because they bury them. No good trail cam pics? That's because Bigfoot can spot them and is smart enough to avoid them. hard to find them? Well that's because they are solitary animals except for when they are tending to their pesky dead. No Bigfoot poo? That's because they eat it.

It us arrogant humans who keep making assumptions. I figure we keep setting the cams to high because of the bloody Patterson Film. Now everyone thinks Biff looks like that.

Bigfoot.jpeg

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While we may learn societal truths from mythological stories themselves or learn about ourselves from the background that surrounds humans and their love/use of myths…

how is this to be accepted or embraced or respected or worthy of anything when the myths come from the scientific realm and not the mythical/philosophical/spiritual one?

Myth study is never disinterested, objective; perhaps Freud's main contribution is this insight. The analysis of myths ...is always in part self-analysis, and self-analysis is also self-creation...

Myths convince the believer of their relevance and lead one to participate in them, when they are seen as part of oneself, when one recognises how the personal mythostory or narrative is fused with the cultural or archetypal - or perhaps more acutely, when one discovers the presence of mythemes within one's own story or within the lives of those around us.

We are what we myth, and we are always in the process of becoming another realisation of our potential selves, another enactment of the deities within.

http://www.allmyartp...ssertation.html

For myths to be effective (beyond mundane fiction) they have to be perceived as "real" or at least possible and in today's modern society the best way to do that is via the scientific realm. It is no coincidence that Bigfoot- and ghost-hunters strive to appear "sciency". That some scientists actively engage with certain mythologies and attempt to validate certain mythologies should be expected (science is a means of understanding and scientists are human just like the rest of us). Whether the processes of science will validate the "reality" behind those myths (like Bigfoot) is something else altogether and which we will soon discover. We are fortunate that a truly independent scientific study (ie Dr. Sykes - with no preconceived biases as to what the DNA will reveal) will be available to compare and contrast with that of Melba.

I don’t find bigfoot as “enlightening” as even most mythology. In this day and age, I find it disturbing and damaging and nothing more than a con when it comes from science in the form of what we are used to seeing with bigfoot. (Dr. Melba Ketchum admits to witnessing habituated bigfoot!)

It is often easier to look back at some event in recent history and reflect upon what really happened than it is to be a part of something historic and understand what is going on while it is actually happening. What is scientific about talking up one's amazing claims without releasing any data for scrutiny? That pseudo-science strives to appear scientific is the whole point...

But even if social science truths may be there (in myths and philosophies and fiction) for all to see, to teach science through myth I find unacceptable. It is not just the myth of the creature but the mythical pseudo-science that is used as well. And that is what I so strongly object to from the scientists and the laymen in the field.

That used to bother me (and still does to some extent) but then I realised that if it has some effect on me (ie bothering me) then perhaps the problem is mine not theirs. After all, Bigfoot is not recognised as a species (undiscovered or otherwise), is not taught in schools or universities, has no evidence of its existence but has plenty of evidence of its true nature (ie fakes and misidentifications) so how else should Bigfoot be promoted other than pseudo-science and mythology (storytelling)?

That such mythology still has traction for a wide section of humanity is where the real mystery is and has great potential to reveal much about ourselves as an unique species. The Tolkien piece I posted above hints at a much older way of understanding, interacting with, and creating the world around us. It's not "wrong" (in fact, the processes of such magical thinking helped ensure our survival and growth as a species and even paved the way for science) just different with different emphases on what is "enlightenment" and "enchantment". Science and materialistic rationalism is really the new kid on the block in comparison and, as such, has much to learn about how myths and stories can affect and enhance our view of the world. To reach and benefit more people perhaps science needs to consciously develop its own myths and stories...

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If Bigfoots were all Blond and looked like Pam Anderson in her twenties then there would be no end to the pictures.

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Excellent post, as usual, NW. I guess I get confused because I look at it all at a much more superficial level. I still can't "connect" in my mind the likes of: Greek "where did we come from, etc" myths and Tolkien or Jonathan Swift social commentary through myth,

with bigfoot.

I admit I find many other myths and use of myth fascinating and witty and purposeful... yet it is no secret I'm jaded when it comes to bigfoot specifically and science and bigfoot totally.

To reach and benefit more people perhaps science needs to consciously develop its own myths and stories...

Could you explain your quote thx

I may be derailing orangepeaceful's thread though

This would make it's own interesting thread, but I don't know enough about it to run it.

I have not read your link yet, which I will do.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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To reach and benefit more people perhaps science needs to consciously develop its own myths and stories...

The world is an amazing place and science provides the best means of understanding it but how to communicate it so that it appeals to more people? Folklore (people's beliefs, stories, and practices) has great appeal because it is casual (anyone can contribute) and traditional and being immersed in it all the time we hardly are aware of it's influence. How can the processes of science become more accessible and appealing so as to make it an everyday part of people's lives (moreso than it is)?

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I stopped watching the show after 2 episodes, It was always a let down them just yelling in the woods saying these are the noises bigfoot makes. I dont know its like watching a porno and not sticking around for the money shot. Its just a let down

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Cryptozoologists will need to record there expeditions better. Possibly by using the newly created GO PRO.

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