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PuffDragon

Islam an offshoot of Christianity?

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I was watching a documentary on the dead sea scrolls, and it was talking about how the differant sects of judism spread. And how there were different offshoots of christianity. For example some followed the book of Paul, while others followed the book of joeseph. (forgive my spelling and butchery of english)

Anyways I could be wrong but I believe the man speaking about the scrolls mentioned that Islam was a christian sect in the begining. But that they followed the old testament.

If im totally wrong and way off feel free to educate me.. I'll link the video.

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Judaism predates Christianity by several thousand years and Christianity predates Islam by several hundred years(about 600 I think). I have never heard that Islam was an offshoot of a Christian sect. Muhammed was clear that the other two religions were "people of the book" (the OT)

Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods. Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe. I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

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Hi PD, I not so sure he saying Islam was a Christian sect. Iam reading his book 'James the brother of Jesus' and I can't hope to explain all his theories in a post but what I am getting from it is that after the death ofJesus his brother James took over in Jerusalem and was a strict Jew as was Jesus and the people that had stored the Dead sea scrolls, this fact is referred to in the 'Acts' where Paul writes that he has been called to Jerusalem to see James about Pauls converting of non-Jews,etc. He then shows that James' Christianity spread east and Pauline Christianity spread west. James religion was strict and required Ritual Bathing like the people at Qumran, also remember Jesus was baptised with 'water' by his teacher John the Baptist! James' Christianity spread right down into Arabia and Mohamed may have come across it and been influenced by it, there are bathing rituals in Islam. I highly recommend the book I am enjoying it, it covers so much, but I don't think Christians or Jews like him at all as he shows again and again faults in their religious texts. Don't forget to watch all 25 parts of Eisenman on the rocks!

Edited by sutemi

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Wow, thanks for your replies. I wasn't quite sure what he was explaining. I was very disappointed when he talked about how they were excavated. Their could have been something really wild in there.

I find it fascinating how all 3 religions share some of the same scriptures.

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I personally feel it did copy a lot from the Christian bible.. But that is just my own opinion ...Copy cat faiths have been going on for a long time

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Wow, thanks for your replies. I wasn't quite sure what he was explaining. I was very disappointed when he talked about how they were excavated. Their could have been something really wild in there.

I find it fascinating how all 3 religions share some of the same scriptures.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth before their last prophet the "Mahdi" He will descend bodily near the city of Damascus, Syria.

They also believe Jesus never died on the cross and that He never claimed to be God.

They say he will kill all swine and "break the crosses". He will also act as Mahdi's executioner of all who will not submit to Islam.

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Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods. Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe. I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

Allah means 'the god'.

By your logic Jews and Christians worship a pagan god, El, which means god or deity and used in both the Bible and ancient polytheist Semitic religions.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Allah means 'the god'.

By your logic Jews and Christians worship a pagan god, El, which means god or deity and used in both the Bible and ancient polytheist Semitic religions.

Allah is an Arabic boys name, it's not unusual to name a child after a deity but who would call their son God? Mohammed's father Abd Allāh (servant of Allah) worshipped in the pre Islamic Kaaba containing many deities, which "god" was he named after?

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Allah is an Arabic boys name, it's not unusual to name a child after a deity but who would call their son God?

Anyone naming them Allah...... Because Allah does mean God

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Anyone naming them Allah...... Because Allah does mean God

I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is" :) isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.

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There is no argument, as 'allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. And I don't need a site for my 'claim', any native speaker of any Arabic dialect can confirm this.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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There is no argument, as 'allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. And I don't need a site for my 'claim', any native speaker of any Arabic dialect can confirm this.

Yes it is now and all Muslims will claim this to be true, tell me who Mohammeds father Abd Allāh (servant of Allah) was named after in a pre monotheist mecca?

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I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is" :) isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.

Its Arabic romanized, Al- (the) Lah (god/deity) Edited by Rlyeh

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I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is"

Who said it was an argument? I saw no argument or any real point from yourself....It is FACT.. I do not need to link you to anything you wish to avoid.. facts are fact like it......................or not..

isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.

Iti s widely accepted as God by everyone else including Muslims ..I do not care what you feel the name comes from.. It serves of no interest to me..

Besides why derail a thread that is about Islam being an offshoot of Christianity?? You cannot refute that? That is IF you fully disagree with the OP...If not.. who cares? it's your choice.. But I do not want to hear anything more about a name that has nothing to do with this thread

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I do not care what you feel the name comes from.. It serves of no interest to me..

You joined in the argument on my post? Women!:devil:

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There is no argument, as 'allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. And I don't need a site for my 'claim', any native speaker of any Arabic dialect can confirm this.

http://servantofthelight.com/content/view/7/27/

check this out as to some meanings and insights.

Also this http://www.ahmedhulusi.org/en/

This is also a very very interesting read http://servantofthelight.com/content/view/92/44/

Please do read those links. La Illa Ha Ill Allah means, There is no God, Only Allah.

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You are missing the point of singular and plural, of the different endings of male, female, of a singular or plural meanig directing to someone. It is not realy present in the english language but it is present in other languages. Allah means god, illahi is gods or also from god. The misconception of the difference in meaning has its roots in the meaning of a translation. Thats all.

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Judaism predates Christianity by several thousand years and Christianity predates Islam by several hundred years(about 600 I think). I have never heard that Islam was an offshoot of a Christian sect. Muhammed was clear that the other two religions were "people of the book" (the OT)

Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods. Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe. I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Muhammed got the Quran from the Angel Gabriel in a cave and that Allah was the god of Adam, Abraham and Moses. I'm pretty sure that makes him the same God.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Muhammed got the Quran from the Angel Gabriel in a cave and that Allah was the god of Adam, Abraham and Moses. I'm pretty sure that makes him the same God.

Allah is what the peoples of Islam called the God of Christians and Jews. Archaeology gives evidence that this god of the crescent moon predates Islam. Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon, married to the sun god and the stars were his daughters...hence the symbol of Islam.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Edited for spelling

Edited by and then

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Allah is what the peoples of Islam called the God of Christians and Jews. Archaeology gives evidence that this god of the crescent moon predates Islam. Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon, married to the sun god and the stars were his daughters...hence the symbol of Islam.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Edited for spelling

Or not...

Allah

The word "Allah" is the perfect description of the "One God" of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims!

Is "Allah" only for Islam and Muslims?

[No! It is for All Three Abrahamic Faiths.]

"Allah" is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came.

On page one [1] of Genesis in the Old Testament, we find the word "Allah" seventeen [17] times.

Every hotel and motel has a Bible. Next time you see one look in the introduction, you will find samples of the different languages they have translated. For Arabic they have translated the verse in the New Testament in Arabic from the famous verse in the Gospel John 3:16 -

More

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

And that old stand by

Allah (English pronunciation: /ˈælə/ or /ˈɑːlə/; Arabic: الله‎ Allāh, IPA: [ʔɑlˈlɑː] ( listen), [ʔalˤˈlˤɑː]) is a word for God used in the context of Islam and other monotheistic religions of Arabic-speaking communities.[1] In Arabic, the word means simply "the God".[2][3][4] It is used primarily by Muslims and Bahá'ís, and often, albeit not exclusively, used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Mizrahi Jews and Sikhs.[5][6][7] It is related to ʼĔlāhā in Aramaic.

Nibs

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Good post Nibs. I do wonder then if the slavic god BOG or the german GOTT is the same like the english GOD? How about the french or spanic or....

I guess people do not undestand that there are other languages besides english.

Btw. The sign for Islam, the moon crescent, was introduced by the ottoman empire.

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Nope. Source it however you choose, the "god" of Islam is as different from the God of the bible as hatred is from love. Their doctrine is ALL about subjugation, submission and spreading their control by force. Any honest reading of the Qur'an will show this quickly to a person with an open mind.

Poor Nibs

;)

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Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe. I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

To the OP I would disagree that Islam is an 'offshoot' of Christianity, in the sense that it stands on its own. But the reality is many of the early Islamic and Sufi philosophers and leaders were influenced by both Judaism and Christianity, as well as having contact with eastern religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. For example, when you study the Sufi path (which I love) there are numerous classical teachings on detachment, meditation; things that you find in the eastern religion, but then are centered on faith in God. Early Islamic teachers DREW FROM these other faiths, but much of their doctrine is unique to Islam, and is in no way borrowing from the other Abrahamic religions.

To the above quote, I ask, how do we KNOW they are not praying to the same God as Jews and Christians? Are we in a pipeline '3 way call' with God, able to hear whether God responds or not to the prayers of others who do not believe in exactly the same way as we do, like Muslims?

I don't know if you are a Christian or not, but I mean no offense. However, as a Christian myself I begin to wonder about labeling a religion that exalts Jesus as a prophet and blesses the Virgin Mary as 'pagan.' The fact that in another post, you mention that they believe in a literal return of Jesus in the end days TELLS ME that God, the God of Isaac, Abraham, and Jacob is dealing with the Islamic people as much as He is Jews and Christians.

In fact, our 'Judeo-Christian' western mindset has been detrimental to establishing a sound inter-religious dialogue with the Muslim community. In our 'evangelical' mindset we are quick to say things like "Muslims don't pray to the same God Jews and Christians do" when in reality, if you study their sacred texts closely, as Christians in many cases we have more in common with Islam than Judaism. A solid case could be made that the Talmudic laws they follow originate not from the Old Testament as evangelicals mistakenly perceive, but from their Babylonian captivity and pagan Persian religions. All one has to do is point to the Kabbalah (while I do like some of tha Kabbahlistic teachings, however) to see evidence of this fact. And why do evangelicals ignore or gloss over the fact the Talmud says Jesus was a false prophet, is roasting in hell, and that Mary was a prostitute. While many rabbis disavow such teachings, it cannot be disputed that these things are in the Talmud. And yet, we have Muslims who regard Jesus as one of the highest prophets, and Mary as the most blessed woman in the entire Quran. Now just looking at that, who does the Christian have more in common with?

It saddens me as a Christian that we have erected these barriers against Islam; because when I was in Indonesia, a Muslim country, I saw a profound beauty in their faith; and I think we have much that we could learn from one another, as it was in the days before the Turks and the Crusades; where these two great faiths learned side by side from one another, and Christians and Muslims often worshipped in the same building.

Speaking for myself, I have learned much spiritually from studying Islam, and in particular, Sufism.

Their doctrine is ALL about subjugation, submission and spreading their control by force. Any honest reading of the Qur'an will show this quickly to a person with an open mind.

No, I don't think this is an 'honest' reading of the Quran at all; you are approaching it with your western cultural bias. A Muslim would not call living their faith the way they do as 'subjugation' but DEVOTION, devotion of which the majority of us western Christians are incapable of doing because we have become spiritually lazy. This is reading the Quran not with an open mind, but a closed one. You are comparing it to something else rather than trying to approach it with an open mind, and perhaps get something from it. Furthermore; don't the Jews have the same 'rituals' and 'legalistic' approach to a holy life? Why judge one, then, and not the other? Are the two of them actually not similar in this sense?

And finally, you talk about them spreading control by force. Again, I feel this shows them disrespect...on two levels. First, if we are going back to the time of the Prophet himself; yes the Muslims used the sword...but this was to ultimately unify all the pagan tribes, who were already fighting amongst themselves. They had no choice. By Christian definition, it would have been a just war. In addition, did this not happen in the Old Testament? Don't forget that the Jews had to conqueor the promised land. The Ark of the Covenant was used as a WEAPON. So to say that war isn't sometimes necessary is to discredit your own roots of faith. King David fought in many battles and wars.

In current events, I think we are looking at extremism, not the true way of Muslims. Yes, certain Islamic governments use violence and force to control the people....but this is the problem when ANY religion wields absolute temporal power. Christians were just as guilty of barbarism in the middle ages. It is the sin of power that corrupts, not the religion itself. People of all faith would do well to remember that.

Edited by Marcus Aurelius

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Nope. Source it however you choose, the "god" of Islam is as different from the God of the bible as hatred is from love. Their doctrine is ALL about subjugation, submission and spreading their control by force. Any honest reading of the Qur'an will show this quickly to a person with an open mind.

Poor Nibs

;)

I've read the Qu'ran, Bible and Torah, heck, even Dianetics.

ANY religious text can be used to subjugate and abuse by force. Doesn't change the fact that the Muslim, Jews, Christians are all speaking of the same god.

To make my point -

flds-child-brides.jpg

medium_prophet-women-children-slide.jpg

:) Nibs

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I recenty asked a Muslim associate of mine what his biggest beef with Christianity was. Why he chose Islam over Christianity. He stated that his beef was that Christians turned away from the worship of God and started Jesus worship. That the ten commandments warned of the worship of false idols and that god wouldn't have put it as one of the ten commandments if it wasn't going to happen.

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