Have you seen or experienced God or Jesus?

[Cassea]

I started this to share stories when people have experienced God or Jesus. Not to debate whether it is possible. It certainly is possible. Yet people dismiss others experiences. They say we didn't really experience them. I am puzzled why, if a person has an experience. Others have similar experiences. It is disregarded as being crazy. Or imagining things. If several people reported smelling gas? Wouldn't that be evidence that there might be a gas leak? Would you also say "You are smelling what you want to smell." I have never understood why these experiences. Are not given. The same degree of respect as. Depression or joy? You wouldn't tell people they don't experience depression or joy. Just because you can't create empirical evidence? Never understood the reason. People want to dismiss the experiences of millions of people. For thousands of years. The same experiences. And we are all just imagining it. LOL

[ambelamba]

I started this to share stories when people have experienced God or Jesus. Not to debate whether it is possible. It certainly is possible. Yet people dismiss others experiences. They say we didn't really experience them. I am puzzled why, if a person has an experience. Others have similar experiences. It is disregarded as being crazy. Or imagining things. If several people reported smelling gas? Wouldn't that be evidence that there might be a gas leak? Would you also say "You are smelling what you want to smell." I have never understood why these experiences. Are not given. The same degree of respect as. Depression or joy? You wouldn't tell people they don't experience depression or joy. Just because you can't create empirical evidence? Never understood the reason. People want to dismiss the experiences of millions of people. For thousands of years. The same experiences. And we are all just imagining it. LOL

I think you skipped my "laser from idustrial grade glue" argument.

[JGirl]

I started this to share stories when people have experienced God or Jesus. Not to debate whether it is possible. It certainly is possible. Yet people dismiss others experiences. They say we didn't really experience them. I am puzzled why, if a person has an experience. Others have similar experiences. It is disregarded as being crazy. Or imagining things. If several people reported smelling gas? Wouldn't that be evidence that there might be a gas leak? Would you also say "You are smelling what you want to smell." I have never understood why these experiences. Are not given. The same degree of respect as. Depression or joy? You wouldn't tell people they don't experience depression or joy. Just because you can't create empirical evidence? Never understood the reason. People want to dismiss the experiences of millions of people. For thousands of years. The same experiences. And we are all just imagining it. LOL

the difference is that if several people smelled gas you could go and find evidence of that gas leak.

you cannot go and find evidence of god or jesus. not empirical evidence that is.

before you get your back up, understand that i do believe in god.

i just don't make the mistake in thinking that means it's a factual thing. it is real to me.

i would never argue with someone whether god exists. that's kind of a losing battle.

[J. K.]

People experience what they want to experience... simple as that.

A question about that...

I experienced a very traumatic occurrence in my life several years ago. Because of my faith in my belief, I had to stand up against another Christian whose actions were becoming detrimental to a group of people. It was one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do, and I never want to be placed in that type of situation again.

So, believe me, I didn't not want to experience that, but it did happen.

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

[Cassea]

the difference is that if several people smelled gas you could go and find evidence of that gas leak.

you cannot go and find evidence of god or jesus. not empirical evidence that is.

before you get your back up, understand that i do believe in god.

i just don't make the mistake in thinking that means it's a factual thing. it is real to me.

i would never argue with someone whether god exists. that's kind of a losing battle.

I don't have my back up. I am just curious why people would say that there is no proof. What would be "proof." Now I'm a simple person. But if I saw God and Jesus or experienced it. And others who I have shared my experience. Had almost identical experiences. It could mean something else. But it doesn't mean that the experiences. Are invalid. They may be misinterepreting. But they are real. Just because it is a personal experience. Doesn't make it not real. I bring up the example of color blindness. People ignore it. But it is a good example. If a person doesn't see green. It doesn't mean there is no green. People see green as a perception. Dogs can't tell the difference between. Green, Orange and Yellow. Does that mean there is not a difference? Does that mean we are imagining these colors? How would you prove scientifically that green can be perceived. Arguing the perception is flawed. Doesn't mean that the thing perceived. Doesn't exist. It just means people can't see it. How would you prove that green is different than yellow? It relies on perception.

ETA To be more clear. Lack of proof of a gas leak. Does not prove that people did not smell it. Like I said. It may be mistaken. But that doesn't mean the people didn't experience something.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Cassea

[keven3]

I am just curious why people would say that there is no proof. ...It relies on perception.

I think your point expressed earlier and here is valid but it seems that most people don't see things that way.

Keven

[JGirl]

I don't have my back up. I am just curious why people would say that there is no proof. What would be "proof."

the best way i can explain it (the way i understand it) is that there is a difference between evidence and proof. i have evidence of god as far as i'm concerned. i have always had a strong spiritual nature, and i have a very deep sense of 'knowing' that god exists. so, i guess i'm saying i believe in god because i experience god.

evidence is something that is suggestive of fact, proof is the fact shown beyond doubt. not reasonable doubt, but all doubt.

Now I'm a simple person. But if I saw God and Jesus or experienced it. And others who I have shared my experience. Had almost identical experiences. It could mean something else. But it doesn't mean that the experiences. Are invalid. They may be misinterepreting. But they are real. Just because it is a personal experience. Doesn't make it not real.

that's very true, it does not make it not real. but because it is a personal experience, it will not be everyone's reality.

I bring up the example of color blindness. People ignore it. But it is a good example. If a person doesn't see green. It doesn't mean there is no green.

People see green as a perception.

Dogs can't tell the difference between. Green, Orange and Yellow. Does that mean there is not a difference?

Does that mean we are imagining these colors? How would you prove scientifically that green can be perceived.

Arguing the perception is flawed. Doesn't mean that the thing perceived. Doesn't exist. It just means people can't see it. How would you prove that green is different than yellow? It relies on perception.

check this link

ETA To be more clear. Lack of proof of a gas leak. Does not prove that people did not smell it. Like I said. It may be mistaken. But that doesn't mean the people didn't experience something.

i'm not suggesting they didn't experience something. i'm saying that it (gas) is something tangible that can be investigated.

god is not tangible. the very idea of god defies explanation. god is faith based and to look for fact in faith is a never ending circle.

just look at every religion thread in every forum on the internet. believers vs nonbelievers vs skeptics. we all have our position, and very rarely will one ever change.

Edited January 30, 2012 by JGirl

[Cassea]

Not in my experience. Not in the experience of people I am close to. Not in the experience of many people I do not know. God is tangible. He is real. He is present. Perhaps not to everyone. I understand. But if I have experienced God and Jesus. How is it that it is not real. Because you can't see it. That is like saying Green is not real. Because you can't see it. Green will not be real to a color blind person. But Green is real. I can experience it and see it. Green is real to me.

[JGirl]

Not in my experience. Not in the experience of people I am close to. Not in the experience of many people I do not know. God is tangible. He is real. He is present. Perhaps not to everyone. I understand. But if I have experienced God and Jesus. How is it that it is not real. Because you can't see it. That is like saying Green is not real. Because you can't see it. Green will not be real to a color blind person. But Green is real. I can experience it and see it. Green is real to me.

i dont know what you're referencing in the bolded part.

when i say tangible i mean something that exists without question. something that cannot be refuted.

the rest you have already said.

[Cassea]

Tangible meaning a thing that can be perceived by touch. My experience with God has been this.

[JGirl]

Tangible meaning a thing that can be perceived by touch. My experience with God has been this.

tangible means any way of perceiving the material, especially by touch but not exclusively.

[Cassea]

I expressed my meaning. You are debating it? You asked me to clarify. In my experience. God has been a tangible experience. Meaning that definition. That is my experience.

[4u2no]

I keep seeing many skeptics saying that God is an imaginary friend. Or that there is no evidence or empirical evidence for God or Jesus. And I'm wondering. Without sounding like a testimony. Without getting into it too much. Would people share if they have seen or experienced God or Jesus. I will try to add a poll. I will say that. When you see Jesus day after day sitting next to you in a light. Everyone telling you that you imagined it. Get's very hard to accept. If you have seen Jesus. You will know it's not just a visual experience. It is huge. It overwhelms you. You aren't not sure. It's not like thinking you saw a Ghost. And getting spooked. It is 100 percent.

Ok you said skeptics! In order to feel or see god you need to believe for he is the invisible god that reveals himself to the ones that believe, so do you see the wind? Look at electric power you see the effect because there are laws you need to follow to get the power, connect a negative with positive to cause the effect of electric to bring that invisible source to be you need a wire or a point to connect the both! and there you go light or whatever, so there are laws spiritual ones you need to follow to turn the switch on that’s the belief or faith that the law so your mind and body are the access of the connection you turn the switch when you expect gods presents and there you go god will show up! and yes I have felt god one day in my room for a brief moment I felt the room my body and mind consumed with love nothing else so un real I will never forget it never.. IF YOU OPEN YOUR MIND TO GOD AND JESUS AND EVEN ANGELS EXSPECT SOME WONDERFUL THINGS TO HAPPEN .

PS IT CAN WORK FOR EVIL TO SO NO NEGATIVE THOUGHTS PLEASE FOR THIS IS THE LAW OF THE UNIVERSE OF GOD !

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

I noticed I was called out for expressing my opinion and my beliefs. I didnt realize this was a fluffy feel good pat your neighbor on the back type of thread. Had I realized that I would have known my opinion was not welcome nor was I. So with that I will leave. I am here for discussion not fluffy pat on the back feel good because we are all the same discussions. I wont post on this topic anymore and I apologize for trying to discuss.I felt I was not being disruptive but again the op decided to show me I was. Good day and I'm sorry for not agreeing.

[Cassea]

You seem to want a pat on the back. For not being fluffy. And when you didn't get it. You left.

[JGirl]

I expressed my meaning. You are debating it? You asked me to clarify. In my experience. God has been a tangible experience. Meaning that definition. That is my experience.

why are you always coming out fighting?

no i'm not debating it. we were discussing the meaning of the word tangible.

you expressed yourself and i understood completely. i understand when you say you have been touched by god. i cannot say you actually did or not. it was not my experience and i was not there.

what is the problem

[Sevastiel]

Really please do give me one example where someones experience doesn't coincide with their belief system or their answer to their lack of a belief system.

Ill give you an example using a phrase I personally use "everything happens for a reason" I know this isslightly off track but it explains human nature to rationalize. You see in my life I'm a hopeless optimist I use that phrase often. I can justify its meaning as I look back to my experiences and everything does look like it happens for a reason. It just exemplifies my current life as being created from my previous choices or experiences. Those that follow the word of God say its gods plan and Hindu cultures call it kismet. Three different belief systems coming separately to the same conclusion. I am self aware enough to know I am simply being optimistic about some of the bad things that have happened in my life. I don't like the idea of telling someone no you did not see God or Jesus. That is simply not right. Especially if those moments are needed for oneself. So because of that I would just like to end this as a correction to my first statement " people see what they may need to see."

And to those that HAVE seen God or Jesus you very well might have. If so it was a gift you needed to see. I'm glad it happened to you.

I already did. I had the experiences. I had not been to, nor had experienced any adulterants of my "images" prior to.

Nor was I concerned with, interested in or contemplating such things anywhere near that time. Now, the Jesus thing can be sloughed off - society is inundated with it. But the foreign religious figures, which were foreign in every sense of the word to me, cannot be explained away with the "want to" line of thinking. Believe me, I'd like it to so I can stop trying to figure out how it's possible (plenty of psychosocial studies here, amongst others).

That rational process you describe is why I have more than half a decade's worth of journals and records; because the experience was - irrational.

"need to see" will just have to be it for now. But the prior was, despite being correct in a substantial number of cases, not all-inclusive.

That was what I was getting at (without explaining).

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

I already did. I had the experiences. I had not been to, nor had experienced any adulterants of my "images" prior to.

Nor was I concerned with, interested in or contemplating such things anywhere near that time. Now, the Jesus thing can be sloughed off - society is inundated with it. But the foreign religious figures, which were foreign in every sense of the word to me, cannot be explained away with the "want to" line of thinking. Believe me, I'd like it to so I can stop trying to figure out how it's possible (plenty of psychosocial studies here, amongst others).

That rational process you describe is why I have more than half a decade's worth of journals and records; because the experience was - irrational.

"need to see" will just have to be it for now. But the prior was, despite being correct in a substantial number of cases, not all-inclusive.

That was what I was getting at (without explaining).

Hey buddy good post and well written. I have pretty much removed myself from this conversation so not to dilute its contents as this is more a sharing topic. I don't have anything personal I feel I should share but I did want to comment since you addressed me. Thank you for your post. And best wishes.

[Omnaka]

You tell me, I don't know.

I was stationed in the UK in the early 80's. I had been studying meditation for only a few years. I turned to this due to very strange occurrences in my youth. One day I was off from work so I stayed in my dorm room to meditate. As I relaxed and did my breathing exercises I felt very different. I felt a burning, tingling sensation starting at my feet and slowly working up my body. I tried to open my eyes but I couldn't. Suddenly my entire body was engulfed in this sleeping limb burning feeling. I was trying very hard to sit up or roll out of my bunk but I couldn't. I had the sensation of falling forward even though I was laying down. Suddenly I found myself floating up through the ceiling and above my dorm.

I could see the sky, the clouds and though I couldn't turn to look at what was below me, I could feel it. It was a party cloudy day but I could see the stars. I found myself passing the moon and as I tried to look around I found that I didn't have to look directly at something, I just knew what it looked like but on a deeper level. I could somehow feel it, become it, whatever it was. I saw the planetary plane. I felt the sun and I could feel the forward motion even though I could not reference it.

It occurred to me that I knew everything I was experiencing. I could feel, not alone but life all around me. I could feel other life forces. Not so much their thoughts or worlds but I could feel their life. I was so happy. A joy without end. There was no end to my knowledge. Then I thought something very stupid. I asked myself. What about God? Is there a God and if there is, where is He? Am I God? Big Mistake!

Suddenly all the motion stopped. All the beautiful stars, galaxies, nebulae....everything started to condense into one tiny ball of light right in front of me. Then I started falling into it. All there was was this little point of light slowly getting bigger and bigger while surrounded by the darkest void. A total absence of light. I found myself thinking, "You died and this is that tunnel they talk about." Then I was in the light.

I couldn't see anything just this pure white light. I tried to reach out but realized I didn't have a body, I was a ball of light. I don't know how I knew this but I just knew. So now I don't know if I'm looking up, down or sideways. Then this thunderous sound invaded me, my entire whatever body I had, was in this sound. I had no thought. Then I heard it again but this time I understood it. It said, Do you still want to know? Before I could form a thought to say who is this or what are you talking about I said YES! If I had hands I would have covered my mouth immediately.

Then this sound filled me again but this time it was a harmonic sound. Like voices in song. Angels I thought? But instead of feeling happy to be here, I was sad. I had wasted so much time, said so very little to those I loved. In the meager, insignificant 20 years I had lived I had accomplished nothing worth mentioning. I saw hair. The light was so bright I couldn't tell what color it was. It flowed like there was a warm soft breeze but I felt nothing. Then I started to see the top of the forehead. And when I saw the eye brows I screamed "I don't want to know yet!"

I felt myself falling...falling forever. But I did not experience the view I had getting here, just swirling light. Then with a crunch I was back in my body and falling out of my bunk. I was soaked. It felt as if I has just had a bucket of water poured on me. I crawled to my feet totally exhausted. I made it to the showers and washed off.

I told no one for 2 weeks. Finally I went to a Chaplin for answers. Another big mistake. After he listened and we read some bible passages he asked me to meet him after services on Sunday. So I did and waiting for me in his office was my First Sergeant and a Staff Sergeant from Mental Health. My First Sergeant asked for my badge and weapons card (I was a cop) and I was escorted to Mental Health and placed on suicide watch. For the next 2 weeks I was asked if I hated my mother and if I drank grape soda, smoked cools and ever parted my hair down the middle??? So after this circus I was deemed fit for duty and returned to my unit. I never spoke to another Chaplain the rest of my active duty period.

I still don't know what I experienced. It has never happened again and I've tried. I did however become more vocal with my family. I still make mistakes but there's never a dull moment. Sometimes at night I'll lay on the hood of my car and look at the stars. I still feel a connection. I can still feel what I felt and it is good.

Hi Sierra Seven, your post reminds me of the first time I was knocked flat and taken up to The spirit world. Just want to thank you for sharing, Had you actually seen Father, he still would offer you the way back.

Good post bro!

Love Omnaka

[White Crane Feather]

Jesus? Yes, in a few rare and pivotal dreams. As well as other spiritual/religious figures, some that I didn't even know had names/existed until after these images motivated me to investigate and study further, subsequently finding out that these figures were significant in other religions I'd never bothered or concerned myself with before (Shiva, Heva, Sariel, and others I've yet to place a name to). Also right around the time when I began having minor prescient experiences. But despite all my logical efforts to find suitable answers or evidence for why or how, I still have to just accept it as is. Don't like that particularly, but it is what it is. Just having the connection is ... reassuring.

I knew you would be comeing around to that surrender sev. sometimes things are not what they apear to be, but sometimes they are exactly what they apear to be. When logic is totally exahusted then explanation must be that the elephant in the room is really an elephant.

[Omnaka]

I knew you would be comeing around to that surrender sev. sometimes things are not what they apear to be, but sometimes they are exactly what they apear to be. When logic is totally exahusted then explanation must be that the elephant in the room is really an elephant.

Just gotta say , I love all the Elephant parables in this thread, An elephant played a part in my first spiritual encounter Ha Ha.

Good night Seeker79, Bro Walker and Um.

Love Omnaka

[Mr Walker]

i dont know what you're referencing in the bolded part.

when i say tangible i mean something that exists without question. something that cannot be refuted.

the rest you have already said.

To me and I assume to cassea God exists without question. It is something that can be refuted. Like my wife or my dog. How can anyone refute their existence other than philosophically. And god, on occasions, manifests to me in my life, and observably to others around me, as real, as solid as physical and as interactive as my wife and dog do. Just differntly

Inmy experience the physical existence of an independent, sapient, interactive, and very physical god, is ireffutable and unquestionable..

It is only the difficulty in transferrabiltiy of evidences which is diferrent The rest is down to commonality of belief.

If my wife was invisible and didn't want to be known, how could I prove her existence to others?

And yet my wife lived on our farm for 20 years, where she saw perhaps one or two other people a month. She did not leave the farm for 10 years. I knew she existed. She was real physical andd tangible to me. But as far as others knew she might just have been a figment of my imagination.

Of course no one questioned the reality of her existence. Wives fall into the realm of common knowledge, and agreed reality. If, in fact, i HAD created her existence, no one would have challenged her reality.

[Mr Walker]

In my last post the first line should have read, "it is something which can NOT be refuted " Wouldnt let me edit it .

[JGirl]

And yet my wife lived on our farm for 20 years, where she saw perhaps one or two other people a month. She did not leave the farm for 10 years. I knew she existed. She was real physical andd tangible to me. But as far as others knew she might just have been a figment of my imagination.

the problem with your statement is that, whether others saw her or not, your wife is in fact real and physical and tangible . i get your point but it's a weak one.

i am not disputing whether someone has seen or experienced god, so i don't see the point of your post.

Edited February 3, 2012 by JGirl

[Cassea]

To me and I assume to cassea God exists without question. It is something that can be refuted. Like my wife or my dog. How can anyone refute their existence other than philosophically. And god, on occasions, manifests to me in my life, and observably to others around me, as real, as solid as physical and as interactive as my wife and dog do. Just differntly

Inmy experience the physical existence of an independent, sapient, interactive, and very physical god, is ireffutable and unquestionable..

It is only the difficulty in transferrabiltiy of evidences which is diferrent The rest is down to commonality of belief.

If my wife was invisible and didn't want to be known, how could I prove her existence to others?

And yet my wife lived on our farm for 20 years, where she saw perhaps one or two other people a month. She did not leave the farm for 10 years. I knew she existed. She was real physical andd tangible to me. But as far as others knew she might just have been a figment of my imagination.

Of course no one questioned the reality of her existence. Wives fall into the realm of common knowledge, and agreed reality. If, in fact, i HAD created her existence, no one would have challenged her reality.

This is an excellent post. I have not heard it put this way before. But yes. I agree. To reject God, must be a philosophical rejection. Because I have known and seen God and Jesus. I don't believe. I know. And others try to say it is. An imagination. An hallucination. A side effect of brain injury. Yet the consistency is there. And yes. Just like your example. Of your wife at the farm. Anyone could philosophically debate her existence. But she is there.