The frustration against GOD

[Spock_the_Future]

Hi All,

I want to state that we believe GOD should do something for the state we are in instead of having people quoting scriptures and the likes just to make us carry on believing what they want us to believe. If in fact S/HE exists, why make us do what was said in the movie "The Devil's Advocate". As far as I can remember it went on like GOD says to us "Feel but don't see, See but don't smell, Smell but don't touch, Touch but don't taste, Taste but don't Swallow" just to make the preachers feel good and in control of the world ? Is it every time about power and not GOD and the goodness that we are supposed to feel because of HER/HIS presence ?

My question is that Isn't because of this approach of religious evangelists that Atheism was born and became as much a Hardliner in their believes as the religious ones ?

How do we overcome that and become the Intelligent Sentient beings again ?

Spock the Future

Edited January 26, 2012 by Spock_the_Future

[J. K.]

As far as I can remember it went on like GOD says to us "Feel but don't see, See but don't smell, Smell but don't touch, Touch but don't taste, Taste but don't Swallow" just to make the preachers feel good and in control of the world ?

What is the source of that feel/see/smell quote?

[Spock_the_Future]

What is the source of that feel/see/smell quote?

Hi J.K.,

I goes like this as I already quoted

why make us do what was said in the movie "The Devil's Advocate". As far as I can remember it went on like GOD says to us "Feel but don't see, See but don't smell, Smell but don't touch, Touch but don't taste, Taste but don't Swallow" just to make the preachers feel good and in control of the world ?

It's the dialog spoken by Al Pacino towards the end of the movie, I don't remember the exact dialog.

Edit:

And I'll say it does have some significance as these things are there in one way or another in our scriptures too.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Spock_the_Future

[J. K.]

why make us do what was said in the movie "The Devil's Advocate". As far as I can remember it went on like GOD says to us "Feel but don't see, See but don't smell, Smell but don't touch, Touch but don't taste, Taste but don't Swallow" just to make the preachers feel good and in control of the world ?

The reason I ask is that there is nothing in the Christian New Testament like those words.

[Spock_the_Future]

The reason I ask is that there is nothing in the Christian New Testament like those words.

Well Testament is not the only thing that defines GOD or is it ? And isn't it something that is reflected and does happens in real life ?

[J. K.]

Well Testament is not the only thing that defines GOD or is it ? And isn't it something that is reflected and does happens in real life ?

Part of the problem defining Christianity is that there are many, many variations of belief. Some accept only the 66 books of the Old and New Testament. Others use a Bible that contains more books than that. Others use completely different literature as their scripture.

Speaking as a member of the first group (and there are many subdivisions of that group as well)...the reality of God as revealed in the Bible is verified by personal experience.

Yes, it is true that preachers can get carried away and let power go to their heads, but that behavior is not condoned in the Bible. Having the humble attitude of a servant, looking to meet others' needs...those are the activities and qualities that the Scripture expects us to emulate.

[Spock_the_Future]

Part of the problem defining Christianity is that there are many, many variations of belief. Some accept only the 66 books of the Old and New Testament. Others use a Bible that contains more books than that. Others use completely different literature as their scripture.

Speaking as a member of the first group (and there are many subdivisions of that group as well)...the reality of God as revealed in the Bible is verified by personal experience.

Yes, it is true that preachers can get carried away and let power go to their heads, but that behavior is not condoned in the Bible. Having the humble attitude of a servant, looking to meet others' needs...those are the activities and qualities that the Scripture expects us to emulate.

Hi J.K.,

Was Atheism created just because of these few people ? Or was it because we let these few people dictate the terms ? Is the Pope in these few people ? Why don't people believe GOD as good consider HER/HIM non-existent and become Atheist ?

Is this what we see in the news now days ? Do you think we are heading towards a future where people with open mind still believing in that existence ?

[bacca]

Speaking as a member of the first group (and there are many subdivisions of that group as well)...the reality of God as revealed in the Bible is verified by personal experience.

So you say it is verified by personal experience? I would like to know what that is...Is it that when things happen you attribute it to god? Because that is still your opinion, it is the believer putting their own personal faith and belief onto things that to another person would give no spiritual relevance to. I understand that people have faith but making a comment that you can verify the reality of god since to my knowledge no one has been able to prove or verify the existence of god.

[J. K.]

Hi J.K.,

Was Atheism created just because of these few people ? Or was it because we let these few people dictate the terms ? Is the Pope in these few people ? Why don't people believe GOD as good consider HER/HIM non-existent and become Atheist ?

Is this what we see in the news now days ? Do you think we are heading towards a future where people with open mind still believing in that existence ?

From my perspective, I would say that atheism was born centuries ago. Keep in mind that since I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, I accept as truth that at one time there were only eight humans on the earth: Noah and his family. Noah obviously followed God, and most likely, the rest of his family either followed God or knew about Him. At some point, someone decided to reject the notion of following God, and left God out of their life, and atheism was born.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're asking in the first paragraph. However, you might keep in mind that not all Christians accept the Pope as a spiritual leader.

As for now...it's obvious that Christianity is not as acceptable as it once was. To declare yourself as a Bible-believing Christian is to open yourself to abuse, such as being labeled 'ignorant', etc. We don't win any popularity contests. And, the Bible predicted that would happen at some point.

[Spock_the_Future]

From my perspective, I would say that atheism was born centuries ago. Keep in mind that since I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, I accept as truth that at one time there were only eight humans on the earth: Noah and his family. Noah obviously followed God, and most likely, the rest of his family either followed God or knew about Him. At some point, someone decided to reject the notion of following God, and left God out of their life, and atheism was born.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're asking in the first paragraph. However, you might keep in mind that not all Christians accept the Pope as a spiritual leader.

As for now...it's obvious that Christianity is not as acceptable as it once was. To declare yourself as a Bible-believing Christian is to open yourself to abuse, such as being labeled 'ignorant', etc. We don't win any popularity contests. And, the Bible predicted that would happen at some point.

Well as you aptly put it " At some point, someone decided to reject the notion of following God, and left God out of their life, and atheism was born.", I want to know the reason for it. Is it because of belief in written word as you have and discrimination of those who question the written word or was it something else ? the slaying of the non-believers or was it the capturing and killing of scientists in the 1400-1899 who believed in science more and were not allowed to ?

[dalia]

Well as you aptly put it " At some point, someone decided to reject the notion of following God, and left God out of their life, and atheism was born.", I want to know the reason for it. Is it because of belief in written word as you have and discrimination of those who question the written word or was it something else ? the slaying of the non-believers or was it the capturing and killing of scientists in the 1400-1899 who believed in science more and were not allowed to ?

Atheism, defined as not believing there is a God, comes into being when a person has a rebelious heart and wants to live life according his/her own rules without reguard to laws adopted by society or prescribed by Diety. He/she justifies his/her rebellion by convincing him/her self there is no higher Authority to whom one is answerable. This person my stay within the confines of laws adopted by society so as not to suffer the immediate physical penalties that would insue, but seeing no evidence of a Diety, pursues Diety proscribed activities to the extent that civil law allows.

I have no idea how many atheist may claim they turned to atheism because of a preacher or a priest, but the bottom line is that they will not admit to themselves that they will eventually be accountable to a higher Authority. It soothes their own conscience.

[Spock_the_Future]

Atheism, defined as not believing there is a God, comes into being when a person has a rebelious heart and wants to live life according his/her own rules without reguard to laws adopted by society or prescribed by Diety. He/she justifies his/her rebellion by convincing him/her self there is no higher Authority to whom one is answerable. This person my stay within the confines of laws adopted by society so as not to suffer the immediate physical penalties that would insue, but seeing no evidence of a Diety, pursues Diety proscribed activities to the extent that civil law allows.

I have no idea how many atheist may claim they turned to atheism because of a preacher or a priest, but the bottom line is that they will not admit to themselves that they will eventually be accountable to a higher Authority. It soothes their own conscience.

Hi dalia,

Our conscience is with us irrespective of if we believe in GOD or not. the earlier society was based on notions of religion first and that was the time when the priests ruled first and the Queen or King came second, You will have instances where a Queen or a King was overthrown because they believed otherwise.

Where does this rebellious heart comes from ? I hope it doesn't come with the tattoo of "Born to be Wild".

It is there somewhere and I am not able to put the figure on it, Need your help on this gals and guys.

[J. K.]

Spock, are you looking for the original birth of atheism, or are you looking at the turn to atheism after the Dark Ages (1500s)?

For a period of time, the (European) Catholic Church withheld education from the masses. (Why they did so is another discussion entirely.) At some point, men of science began to make observations of the world around them The conclusions they reached challenged the Church's view of reality (such as, such as the sun revolving around the earth). In the push to spread scientific understanding, the men of science pushed away the faulty science of the Church, as well as the spiritual aspects of religion. At what exact point in time did the early scientists reject the concept of a deity? I do not know, but it was most likely during the Renaissance.

[Spock_the_Future]

Spock, are you looking for the original birth of atheism, or are you looking at the turn to atheism after the Dark Ages (1500s)?

For a period of time, the (European) Catholic Church withheld education from the masses. (Why they did so is another discussion entirely.) At some point, men of science began to make observations of the world around them The conclusions they reached challenged the Church's view of reality (such as, such as the sun revolving around the earth). In the push to spread scientific understanding, the men of science pushed away the faulty science of the Church, as well as the spiritual aspects of religion. At what exact point in time did the early scientists reject the concept of a deity? I do not know, but it was most likely during the Renaissance.

Well am looking at the turn to Atheism and the reasons for it, if you can point me to some links about that then I would be obliged.

[J. K.]

Well am looking at the turn to Atheism and the reasons for it, if you can point me to some links about that then I would be obliged.

It looks like you should be able to discover a lot of information here:

American Atheists: The Roots of Atheism

[Spock_the_Future]

It looks like you should be able to discover a lot of information here:

American Atheists: The Roots of Atheism

The copyright is from 2008, being Antagonistic is something else. I'll read through the claims and works anyhow. Bet that they are not much different than what the Religious ones claim.

[Yogigizmo]

Well as you aptly put it " At some point, someone decided to reject the notion of following God, and left God out of their life, and atheism was born.", I want to know the reason for it. Is it because of belief in written word as you have and discrimination of those who question the written word or was it something else ? the slaying of the non-believers or was it the capturing and killing of scientists in the 1400-1899 who believed in science more and were not allowed to ?

Wasn't atheism before religion?

[JGirl]

Atheism, defined as not believing there is a God, comes into being when a person has a rebelious heart and wants to live life according his/her own rules without reguard to laws adopted by society or prescribed by Diety. He/she justifies his/her rebellion by convincing him/her self there is no higher Authority to whom one is answerable. This person my stay within the confines of laws adopted by society so as not to suffer the immediate physical penalties that would insue, but seeing no evidence of a Diety, pursues Diety proscribed activities to the extent that civil law allows.

I have no idea how many atheist may claim they turned to atheism because of a preacher or a priest, but the bottom line is that they will not admit to themselves that they will eventually be accountable to a higher Authority. It soothes their own conscience.

this is a very narrow idea of atheism i'd say

seems to me atheists are just going about their lives. if there was no idea of god atheism wouldn't exist at all.

the part i bolded in your comment is a pretty big assumption on your part.

Edited January 27, 2012 by JGirl

[Spock_the_Future]

this is a very narrow idea of atheism i'd say

seems to me atheists are just going about their lives. if there was no idea of god atheism wouldn't exist at all.

the part i bolded in your comment is a pretty big assumption on your part.

Well the marked comment in your suggestion is what I am interested about. Where does it all start ?

[J. K.]

The copyright is from 2008, being Antagonistic is something else. I'll read through the claims and works anyhow. Bet that they are not much different than what the Religious ones claim.

Granted, the writings there show as much zeal as some Gospel evangelists I've heard, but their message is quite different. Also, I didn't mean to offend you; I was not trying to be antagonistic toward you.

[J. K.]

Wasn't atheism before religion?

From the Christian viewpoint, religion came first.

[FurthurBB]

Atheism, defined as not believing there is a God, comes into being when a person has a rebelious heart and wants to live life according his/her own rules without reguard to laws adopted by society or prescribed by Diety. He/she justifies his/her rebellion by convincing him/her self there is no higher Authority to whom one is answerable. This person my stay within the confines of laws adopted by society so as not to suffer the immediate physical penalties that would insue, but seeing no evidence of a Diety, pursues Diety proscribed activities to the extent that civil law allows.

I have no idea how many atheist may claim they turned to atheism because of a preacher or a priest, but the bottom line is that they will not admit to themselves that they will eventually be accountable to a higher Authority. It soothes their own conscience.

This is just completely untrue on every level and actually quite insulting.

[Bluefinger]

Hi All,

I want to state that we believe GOD should do something for the state we are in instead of having people quoting scriptures and the likes just to make us carry on believing what they want us to believe. If in fact S/HE exists, why make us do what was said in the movie "The Devil's Advocate". As far as I can remember it went on like GOD says to us "Feel but don't see, See but don't smell, Smell but don't touch, Touch but don't taste, Taste but don't Swallow" just to make the preachers feel good and in control of the world ? Is it every time about power and not GOD and the goodness that we are supposed to feel because of HER/HIS presence ?

My question is that Isn't because of this approach of religious evangelists that Atheism was born and became as much a Hardliner in their believes as the religious ones ?

How do we overcome that and become the Intelligent Sentient beings again ?

Spock the Future

As a Christian, I'd say trust Jesus. I think He can fix humanity. I don't think the Church can and I don't think religion can. But Jesus can, I believe.

When Jesus resurrected, it was presented as a fact, not as a religion. The word on Sunday was, "Jesus rose from the dead and we have over 500 eye witnesses."

It seems like you are angry with church leaders who tell you things that you can't help but feel are not true. My wife just cried after seeing the chiropracter because he told her that her rib had popped out. She cried because her other chiropracter told her nothing was wrong when she knew there was something wrong...

[redhen]

Atheism, has been around for thousands of years, it did not start as a protest against Christianity.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3162184064060187674&q=church+history&ei=dWqQSIF-jOr4Af2p-YQI&hl=en#docid=2250104590805018608

the first Greek atheists are presented in the last 10 min of this video (first in a series on atheism).

Epicurus is claimed as the first outspoken atheist and includes his famous quote on the problem of evil, which still has the same force today as it did 2400 years ago.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?"

Of course he was not talking about the Christian God, rather it was Zeus he was objecting to.

Edited January 27, 2012 by redhen

[The Silver Thong]

Atheism, has been around for thousands of years, it did not start as a protest against Christianity.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3162184064060187674&q=church+history&ei=dWqQSIF-jOr4Af2p-YQI&hl=en

To be truthfull every human being ever born was an atheist before they were ummm trained in some form or another to be otherwise.