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regeneratia

The Oath-Keepers: 10 Orders We Won't Obey!

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Welcome to Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

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For years now, I have wondered why our US military has not taken a stand against the deliberate destruction of the US Bill of Rights and US Constitution by our current US Congressmen, Bush The Stupider and Obama. And I have found a group of US service members who are indeed taking a stand on this issue.

Are you ready to stand up and defend the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights?

Are you aware that there are police and soldiers that are unwilling to bypass the provisions in the US Constitution and will protect the US Bill of Rights?

Know your rights!

What are you going to do to take a stand against what is happening to our glorious US Constitution and our US Bill of Rights?

What do you think of this glorious group of brave service people?

Edited by regeneratia

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Same thing I think about any group with a political agenda.

I am less interested in what they do for a living and more in how well they support their arguments.

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Same thing I think about any group with a political agenda.

I am less interested in what they do for a living and more in how well they support their arguments.

Yes, we are well aware of your nature. Can you get on topic?

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My apologies. I was under the impression that you asked what we thought about this glorious group of brave service people.

Or is there is a different topic that you wish to discuss?

Edited by aquatus1

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My apologies. I was under the impression that you asked what we thought about this glorious group of brave service people.

Or is there is a different topic that you wish to discuss?

The Oath-Keepers agenda crosses political lines, while this issue is, despite it's bipartisan stance, by it's very nature a political issue. Did you not view the website? Did you not view how they support their arguments? No problem, take a little time for it. Go to you tube and see the interviews, ... if there are any. See just how they support their arguments.

"Don't be a tool of oppression to your own people." Stewart Rhodes

Edited by regeneratia

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I think about how poorly our Veterans have been treated. Can't seem to forget it.

Lords of War eat up, chew and spit out their own.

Time to fight back against those kind of people.

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I think about how poorly our Veterans have been treated. Can't seem to forget it.

Lords of War eat up, chew and spit out their own.

Time to fight back against those kind of people.

Wow, that's deep. And probably true up to a point. War never has been a very nice occupation. But we keep having them just the same and I think it's because human nature is just flawed in a very deep way. Some people think there are NO just wars. Nothing worth fighting for and anyone who does fight is evil. People who join the military don't often fall into such a category. I think the American military are the best trained and usually the most humane of war fighters. I don't see some dark cabal in the ether manipulating our forces against us but anything is possible I guess...

One thing I do know for certain is that when soldiers start planning in advance which orders they will or won't obey they stop being soldiers and start being rabble. Mutinous, traitorous rabble. And that would be EXTREMELY rare in America's history.

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The Oath-Keepers agenda crosses political lines, while this issue is, despite it's bipartisan stance, by it's very nature a political issue.

Don't they all? Never mind, though, I concede the point. It may be my cyncism showing.

Did you not view the website? Did you not view how they support their arguments? No problem, take a little time for it. ,**CUT**, See just how they support their arguments.

I have been aware of the Oathkeepers since before they were even a thing. I even had a chance to briefly meet and speak to Stewart Rhodes shortly after he founded the Oathkeepers. I was very impressed by the amount of thought he put into this. I had my questions about some of the orders he had listed a month ago, but he was able and willing to explain his reasons (unfortunately, we only spoke for about 15 minutes, as he had a radio show or something along those lines, to attend). Like many exceptional leaders, he is smart, approachable, and intelligent.

And then we have his followers...

**PASTE** Go to you tube and see the interviews, ... if there are any.

One of the things that Rhodes showed particular distaste for, and apparently still does, when one reads his recent articles, are the blind believers. Rhodes is not looking for blind followers. He does not want supporters who can only recite the 10 unlawful orders anymore than he wants opponents who can only cite the ten general orders. What he wants are people who are capable of reasoning and thinking through why an order is unlawful. In particular, he is eager to distance himself from people who are so biased in their views that in their eagerness they make rather unthinking statements like the above. It is those sorts of comments that make him cringe whenever they are associated with his group, because, frankly, they do far more harm to his mission than good.

"Don't be a tool of oppression to your own people." Stewart Rhodes

"Don't be a tool."--Aquatus1

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Wow, that's deep. And probably true up to a point. War never has been a very nice occupation. But we keep having them just the same and I think it's because human nature is just flawed in a very deep way. Some people think there are NO just wars. Nothing worth fighting for and anyone who does fight is evil. People who join the military don't often fall into such a category. I think the American military are the best trained and usually the most humane of war fighters. I don't see some dark cabal in the ether manipulating our forces against us but anything is possible I guess...

One thing I do know for certain is that when soldiers start planning in advance which orders they will or won't obey they stop being soldiers and start being rabble. Mutinous, traitorous rabble. And that would be EXTREMELY rare in America's history.

I disagree with you totally. Since soldiers literally and functionally place oaths on protecting the US Constitution, those who refuse orders that go against the US Constitution are loterally doing their job.

Do you remember the gun confiscation following Katrina? It was totally against the Constitution. AND it took the strange NRA one full day to protest it. It was started by bored Blackwater employees down there without invitation. They starting shooting trash that was around them, and the use of THEIR firearms started the entire confiscation process. (The link to where you can find what I just related: http://www.amazon.com/Blackwater-Rise-Worlds-Powerful-Mercenary/dp/1560259795 LOL, you will have to buy, borrow or steal the book and read it to find the source. Hey fellas, I read real books. Do you?)

Of course, we know how extremely vacillating a soldiers' oath can be when it comes to obeying outrageous orders, if the defacement of the US Air Force pledge was any indication of how those oaths are honored, ... defaced at the time I was there, with a AF General (Star Star Star) that I personally know giving my little group a tour.

I think American freedoms are worth fighting for.

I don't think that fiber optic hubs (the new tower of Babel that we are not supposed to know about, and all the silly skits over communication contracts) or cheap oil is worth ... oh, ... say, ... four hundred thousand lives or the longest US involvement in a war the US has ever experienced as a nation.

I totally disagree with you. I support the Oath-Keepers and have placed info on them in many different places tonight. You don't think I would only deliver this news here? LOL!!

Edited by regeneratia

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Your cynicism is frequently showing, darling. I anticipated it. There were no surprises here. You jumped right on my post, shortly after it was posted. That was no surprise either.

I am that person who is one who might make him cringe, since I can never belong to his group. I don't qualify for it. However, my objectives for the post are to reach those who qualify who don't know about his group but have similar values. I want to get the word out.

For those of you who are reading my posts, do not misunderstand my motivations. I merely here to inform.

I do not belong to the Oath-keepers. I do not qualify for them.

But I am sympathetic to their cause, for much of the cause is directly addressing my long-time questioning on why the US armed forces did not take a stand against the Patriot Act and the NDAA and all other US Constitutional-diminishing domestic acts against our country. For so long, I have been questioning why, why, why did the members of the Armed Forces NOT DO SOMETHING to protect the US Constitutionn from the domestic enemies our current US Congress seems to be at this point in time.

For all you UM spies, know this:

I support the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. I would die to maintain them.

Add me to the list of terrorists because I love the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. Detain me without time limits, without the right to trial or legal support. Label this red-blooded American a terrorist because I love this country more than I love our present power-mongering government, a government founded by the People, For the People, Of the People.

Aquatus, I have no way of knowing if you lie. Frankly, I do not take you at your word, and probably never will. My UM history with you does not reassure me that you are on the up-and-up or truthful. I find You take your own meager power way too seriously.

Don't they all? Never mind, though, I concede the point. It may be my cyncism showing.

I have been aware of the Oathkeepers since before they were even a thing. I even had a chance to briefly meet and speak to Stewart Rhodes shortly after he founded the Oathkeepers. I was very impressed by the amount of thought he put into this. I had my questions about some of the orders he had listed a month ago, but he was able and willing to explain his reasons (unfortunately, we only spoke for about 15 minutes, as he had a radio show or something along those lines, to attend). Like many exceptional leaders, he is smart, approachable, and intelligent.

And then we have his followers...

One of the things that Rhodes showed particular distaste for, and apparently still does, when one reads his recent articles, are the blind believers. Rhodes is not looking for blind followers. He does not want supporters who can only recite the 10 unlawful orders anymore than he wants opponents who can only cite the ten general orders. What he wants are people who are capable of reasoning and thinking through why an order is unlawful. In particular, he is eager to distance himself from people who are so biased in their views that in their eagerness they make rather unthinking statements like the above. It is those sorts of comments that make him cringe whenever they are associated with his group, because, frankly, they do far more harm to his mission than good.

"Don't be a tool."--Aquatus1

Edited by regeneratia

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Perhaps if people like these, whose sincerity I do not doubt, would stop referring to the Nazis at every opportunity, people might not go :rolleyes: and might actually listen to them ...

"We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. ... Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boers, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, and to the Chechens, for example."

Oh no, not the FEMA Camps again. :rolleyes:

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Your cynicism is frequently showing, darling. I anticipated it. There were no surprises here. You jumped right on my post, shortly after it was posted. That was no surprise either.

I imagine not. I always post in the morning and in the afternoon.

I am that person who is one who might make him cringe, since I can never belong to his group. I don't qualify for it. However, my objectives for the post are to reach those who qualify who don't know about his group but have similar values. I want to get the word out.

My statement stands.

For those of you who are reading my posts, do not misunderstand my motivations. I merely here to inform.

I do not belong to the Oath-keepers. I do not qualify for them.

Unfortunately, you do. They don't have very strict entry requirements. Basically, you have to be able to pay whatever entry fee you choose.

But I am sympathetic to their cause, for much of the cause is directly addressing my long-time questioning on why the US armed forces did not take a stand against the Patriot Act and the NDAA and all other US Constitutional-diminishing domestic acts against our country. For so long, I have been questioning why, why, why did the members of the Armed Forces NOT DO SOMETHING to protect the US Constitutionn from the domestic enemies our current US Congress seems to be at this point in time.

Same reasons pretty much everyone else didn't. Most people understand them in context and don't see a danger. A smaller percentage grumble about it, but aren't motivated enough to actually do anything. A select view take action, in that they study, question, and join groups such as the above.

Basically, military people do the same thing that ordinary people do, except that it is a bit harder to accuse them of being cowards when they don't agree with a given viewpoint.

For all you UM spies, know this:

I support the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. I would die to maintain them.

Add me to the list of terrorists because I love the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights. Detain me without time limits, without the right to trial or legal support. Label this red-blooded American a terrorist because I love this country more than I love our present power-mongering government, a government founded by the People, For the People, Of the People.

Yeaaah...who is it, again, who is calling you all these things?

Anyone?

Aquatus, I have no way of knowing if you lie. Frankly, I do not take you at your word, and probably never will.

It matters very little. The things I claim are either quite easy to verify or, occasionally, point out directly the issue at hand. There is no need to trust me, nor should you. After all, even though you have absolutely no evidence, support, or logic, to decide that I am some sort of government spy, you could still be correct out of sheer coincidence.

Alternatively, you can simply assure yourself that I am not trustworthy (despite never asking for your trust), that I am inherently incorrect (instead of verifying correctness), and that I do not know anything about the topic at hand because...well, let's face it, you only discovered the topic recently, so how could anyone on the other side know about it?

Here is an interesting question: Are you capable of explaining the reasoning behind the Unlawful Orders? Not the actual orders themselves, but the reason why those specific ones are the most significant?

You don't have to answer here. It is a personal question. However, I am willing to bet that, even before getting to this sentence here, the first answer that popped in your head was "Of Course!".

My UM history with you does not reassure me that you are on the up-and-up or truthful. I find You take your own meager power way too seriously.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. :tu:

Notice that when I stated how unthinking claims hurt the mission more than help, I gave an actual example, as well as an explanation, and used neutral language rather than personal accusations?

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I fully support the oath keepers. I wish more took thier oaths to the constitution seriously. Out of all 3 branches there is only a small handful of folks who do stay within the confines of constitutional powers. Its good to know that there are men and women in our military and other forces, that understand ther is such a thing as domestic enemies. Between groups like the oath keepers, and seeing Ron Paul get more money from the military then the others combined gives me some hope if that day ever comes, many of them will have our backs.

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For years now, I have wondered why our US military has not taken a stand against the deliberate destruction of the US Bill of Rights and US Constitution by our current US Congressmen, Bush The Stupider and Obama. And I have found a group of US service members who are indeed taking a stand on this issue.

Are you ready to stand up and defend the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights?

Are you aware that there are police and soldiers that are unwilling to bypass the provisions in the US Constitution and will protect the US Bill of Rights?

Know your rights!

What are you going to do to take a stand against what is happening to our glorious US Constitution and our US Bill of Rights?

What do you think of this glorious group of brave service people?

Excellent post! :tu:

It is good to hear of this group. I think I saw the leader, a Sheriff from somewhere (Richard?) on TV.

It's good to know there are men and women like this in service.

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I disagree with you totally. Since soldiers literally and functionally place oaths on protecting the US Constitution, those who refuse orders that go against the US Constitution are loterally doing their job.

Do you remember the gun confiscation following Katrina? It was totally against the Constitution. AND it took the strange NRA one full day to protest it. It was started by bored Blackwater employees down there without invitation. They starting shooting trash that was around them, and the use of THEIR firearms started the entire confiscation process. (The link to where you can find what I just related: http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/1560259795 LOL, you will have to buy, borrow or steal the book and read it to find the source. Hey fellas, I read real books. Do you?)

Of course, we know how extremely vacillating a soldiers' oath can be when it comes to obeying outrageous orders, if the defacement of the US Air Force pledge was any indication of how those oaths are honored, ... defaced at the time I was there, with a AF General (Star Star Star) that I personally know giving my little group a tour.

I think American freedoms are worth fighting for.

I don't think that fiber optic hubs (the new tower of Babel that we are not supposed to know about, and all the silly skits over communication contracts) or cheap oil is worth ... oh, ... say, ... four hundred thousand lives or the longest US involvement in a war the US has ever experienced as a nation.

I totally disagree with you. I support the Oath-Keepers and have placed info on them in many different places tonight. You don't think I would only deliver this news here? LOL!!

Oh dear, were they going to confiscate your little guns?....bored, so they started shooting trash?.....and what would have happened if a child had got in the way of a stay bullet? IMO they should confiscate ALL your guns!

I am sure some from your organisation are genuine people wanting to preserve certain rights, but maybe you chose the wrong one to dipslay here' And no, i am not an american, just an outsider looking in. :wacko:

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I must say, I've never understood this sacred principal about Gun ownership. Is it supposed to make America a safer place? Isn't it really based on paranoia? It seems to be saying that the basic founding principle of America is lack of trust, which seems curious in a country that always insists that its system of government is one that the rest of the World should follow; saying that "we insist to be allowed to carry Arms because we don't really trust our Govt". If you believe in Democracy, then surely the Govt. that's been elected by the People must be right.

oh, and incidentally, George III really was not a Despotic tyrant. the poor fellow didn't know what year it was most of the time.

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I must say, I've never understood this sacred principal about Gun ownership. Is it supposed to make America a safer place? Isn't it really based on paranoia? It seems to be saying that the basic founding principle of America is lack of trust, which seems curious in a country that always insists that its system of government is one that the rest of the World should follow; saying that "we insist to be allowed to carry Arms because we don't really trust our Govt". If you believe in Democracy, then surely the Govt. that's been elected by the People must be right.

oh, and incidentally, George III really was not a Despotic tyrant. the poor fellow didn't know what year it was most of the time.

Funny, reading history books suggests that most colonists in 1770 disagreed with your analysis of George III/ :geek:

Back in the days before helicopter gunships and Predator drones, the armed citizenry was actually capable of overthrowing, violently, tyrants.

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Funny, reading history books suggests that most colonists in 1770 disagreed with your analysis of George III/ :geek:

Back in the days before helicopter gunships and Predator drones, the armed citizenry was actually capable of overthrowing, violently, tyrants.

yes, that's exactly my point. That was obvious rhetoric at the time, demonize your opponent as much as you possibly can, but people still seem to believe it now.

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It makes me sad to see dumb foriegn people thinking they have somehow evolved cause thier government has taken all means of protection from them. Then think we in America should be happy to follow. It was only 70 years ago the Nazi's marched down your streets in victory, and you really see no reason to own a gun? Sad.

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It makes me sad to see dumb foriegn people thinking they have somehow evolved cause thier government has taken all means of protection from them. Then think we in America should be happy to follow. It was only 70 years ago the Nazi's marched down your streets in victory, and you really see no reason to own a gun? Sad.

1. I am not a ''dumb foreigner''

2. The nazis didnt march down our streets

3. Yes, I see no reason to own a gun.

It is people like you who believe you have the right to carry guns, which makes the USA (maybe) one of the more dangerous places to live. As you say......Sad

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Worry about what goes on, on your side of the pond. The only dangerous places to live here are the places with the most gun restrictions. Criminals dont care about laws.

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It makes me sad to see dumb foriegn people thinking they have somehow evolved cause thier government has taken all means of protection from them.

At least this 'dumb foreign' person knows how to spell foreign!

Worry about what goes on, on your side of the pond. The only dangerous places to live here are the places with the most gun restrictions. Criminals dont care about laws.

Yeah, but due to those laws, it is a lot harder for criminals in the UK to get hold of guns... Obviously they are about, but I don't live in fear that any person on the street might be carrying one... Neither do we have the same issue with high school shootings, or children caught in crossfire deaths (although that is not entirely unknown here, it is not a common occurence)

The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.

The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/gun_violence/resources/the_u_s_compared_to_other_nations.html

Americans need to realise that the constitution is not sacred... Indeed, it grants a license for pro-gun nuts to excuse the periodic accidental death of children and innocents caught in crossfire in some vainglorious rhetoric about 'freedom,' (the other old American chestnut.)

Just because something is a founding document, does not mean it is sacred or might not need to occasionally be tweaked... Isn't that what 'amendments' are for anyway? It's all very well to talk about protecting yourself from mythical communists or the Queen of England or whatever, but how many high school kids still have to die before you perceive the problem?

Edited by Wyvernkeeper

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Yeah, but due to those laws, it is a lot harder for criminals in the UK to get hold of guns... Obviously they are about, but I don't live in fear that any person on the street might be carrying one... Neither do we have the same issue with high school shootings, or children caught in crossfire deaths (although that is not entirely unknown here, it is not a common occurence)

The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.

The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105

http://www.americanb...er_nations.html

Americans need to realise that the constitution is not sacred... Indeed, it grants a license for pro-gun nuts to excuse the periodic accidental death of children and innocents caught in crossfire in some vainglorious rhetoric about 'freedom,' (the other old American chestnut.)

Just because something is a founding document, does not mean it is sacred or might not need to occasionally be tweaked... Isn't that what 'amendments' are for anyway?

:tu: Nice statistics. But it wont deter the likes of preacherman :)

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It makes me sad to see dumb foriegn people thinking they have somehow evolved cause thier government has taken all means of protection from them. Then think we in America should be happy to follow. It was only 70 years ago the Nazi's marched down your streets in victory, and you really see no reason to own a gun? Sad.

Well, whether or not the population of, say, France did or didn't have the right own a gun (and i don't know whether they did or not) it wouldn't have made much difference against the Luftwaffe and the Panzer divisions, and the kind of thing that people who go on about 1776 all the time like to envisage, the population resisting Foreign oppressors, did actually happen in the form of the Resistance.

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:tu: Nice statistics. But it wont deter the likes of preacherman :)

Yup, the death of children is nothing to somebody with the certainty of knowing that they couldn't possibly have got this one wrong....

America's relationship with firearms should be regarded as a national embarassment, somehow however - it ended up as a source of pride....

Any psychologists in the house care to explain that one?

Edited by Wyvernkeeper

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