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orangepeaceful79

brainstorm with me, UM friends

31 posts in this topic

Ok, let us think hypotheically here for a moment. If there is any hope of validating claims of BF's existence I think that the best chance of it lies in the slim chance that a dead BF could be discovered and studied. Let us presume - as the BF experts do, that Bigfoots bury their dead. If one wanted to organize an expedition to find once and for all a dead Bigfoot, what kind of equipment/outfitting would one need? Lets play pretend, since at this point that's all BF is, and organize an expedition. Consider it a thought exercise. As you all know, I'm a skeptic, but perhaps an expedition like this would be best undertaken by a group of skeptics.

-what kind of cost would be incurred?

-what kind of equipment/outfitting/personnel/expertise would be needed?

-where the hell would the expedition search?

-what kind of protocols would be followed?

Lets pretend that we are going to do this right and cost is no object.

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Inferred camera's might be helpful, wouldn't hurt to have a gun, tent's, plan to camp. Should be at least four people. I would start searching in the last known location and I would start around the water supply and available food. I wouldn't take dogs they might make them avoid you then you.

Someone about 20 miles away from where I live claim they saw one. A couple of times I've heard some strange things at night.

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Inferred camera's might be helpful, wouldn't hurt to have a gun, tent's, plan to camp. Should be at least four people. I would start searching in the last known location and I would start around the water supply and available food. I wouldn't take dogs they might make them avoid you then you.

Someone about 20 miles away from where I live claim they saw one. A couple of times I've heard some strange things at night.

I would be looking for Dead Bigfoots only. I don't care a rip about the live ones. I'm thinking cadaver sniffing dogs might be helpful.

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cadaver sniffing dogs yes. and how about ground penetrating radar too.

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and a helicopter!

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I would get the expertise of an archaeologist or paleontologist for an insight into how early man buried their dead as it might help give an idea of what to look out for. Although I would guess that looking to areas with fairly soft soil, away from too many tree roots, etc might be a start. I would also keep an eye out for mounds of earth as the bodies would most likely not be buried too deeply.

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I would be looking for Dead Bigfoots only. I don't care a rip about the live ones. I'm thinking cadaver sniffing dogs might be helpful.

Ummmmmm I'm pretty sure a life 'Bigfoot' would be pretty good validation of their existence...

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Ummmmmm I'm pretty sure a life 'Bigfoot' would be pretty good validation of their existence...

yeah but lets be honest - that isn't really working now is it? and IF the things ever existed, there are way, way more dead ones out there somewhere than live ones...and the live ones are so smart blah blah blah...insert excuse why we can't find them etc....the dead ones can't run and can only hide as well as something supposedly hid them.

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yeah but lets be honest - that isn't really working now is it? and IF the things ever existed, there are way, way more dead ones out there somewhere than live ones...and the live ones are so smart blah blah blah...insert excuse why we can't find them etc....the dead ones can't run and can only hide as well as something supposedly hid them.

*live.

I know what you mean. If they did exist and do bury their dead for any kind of intelligent reason, then they would probably be buried in close proximity to each other at Bigfoot cemeteries and not spread out. Also they would have to be buried deep enough to not be dug up by scavengers, or in fenced/protected areas.

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It's a shame humans don't disturb the ground in any way or we would probably have found biff remains.

If we only dug (or even better invented machines to dig for us), we'd be rolling in squatch bones...

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The first question is where would a BF bury their dead? Would they want the bodies close to them and risk discovery or would they take them away into further and deeper territory that they don't use for any other purpose, thus making people think there must be live ones around there?

I'd be looking also for soft ground but with a cairn on top, with age the rocks would probably be knocked around a bit or maybe they just mark out the area with some rocks on top or around the burial spot.

I suppose cadaver dogs may help but aren't they trained only to smell out humans?

Apart from that all the usual camping gear and lots of deep heat for your sore backs after a day of hard digging.

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Looking for a buried dead Bigfoot?

The infrared camera would still be useful, as it can find areas of ground that vary in heat exchange, maybe due to the earth being moved about.

I'd also look for shallow depressions, as the buried bigfoot molds away the earth above it will subside.

Vegetation would probably have been removed, so dirt patches would be a good place to check.

They would bury their dead in secret hidden places. So old growth or places far from human habitations.

I think looking for one that just fell over dead would be much easier. Probably going along creeks and valley floor would be the quickest thing to do, as bones wash downhill. Especially the bigger bones.

How do the police and investigators find human remains when they look for them? Cadaver dogs is a good idea. Other then that I think it usually invovles Luck. Maybe a chemical detector waved over a suspected BF grave would detect Decomosition??

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I think it would be mostly dumb luck. If you think about how many humans are scattered around in unmarked graves, and we know darn well we exist... Bigfoot would be just as hard to find a grave for.

For more useful advice... How would you go about finding unmarked graves of fallen soldiers from the Civil war, or mob dumping, or serial killers that are no longer alive to tell you where the graves are?

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Wow! talk about a task more difficult than finding a needle in a haystack. At least a we know there is a needle in the haystack, we know where the haystack is, and the haystack occupies a relatively small finite area.

Perhaps we would need to identify the most likely area to search first. Or the easiest (and probably least inexpensive) way to find a dead bigfoot would be to pay the individuals whom say they have killed a bigfoot few million to lead us to a body.

They would bury their dead in secret hidden places. So old growth or places far from human habitations.

That would account for modern times (lets say...less than 25 years ago).

But what about further back in time? Lets say...100 years and further back when not so many people where around. The PNW west of the cascades and the Rockies from California to Alaska was pretty much one contiguous old growth forest (Portland and Seattle where old growth forests). Everything east of the Mississippi was solid old growth. Hell the majority of the North American continent was sparsely populated only 100 to 200 years ago.

Since then we have plowed most of the great plains built millions of miles of roads and parking lots, dug millions of tunnels, basements, mines, parking structures, canals, and reservoirs, dredged rivers, and lakes, drained swamps, marshes and lakes, built millions of miles of dikes, and rail lines, strip mined, open pit mined, leveled whole mountains, leveled millions of acres of land for housing developments, and clear cut entire forests. All of these activities have produce millions of fossils, and in many cases ancient human remains and burial sights.

So why haven't we stumbled across a bigfoot burial site?

I think it would be mostly dumb luck. If you think about how many humans are scattered around in unmarked graves, and we know darn well we exist... Bigfoot would be just as hard to find a grave for.

I agree rashore. The interesting thing is that we do blindly stumble upon ancient human burials, hidden murder victims, and missing persons remains relativity often. I would think that would be true for bigoot as well.

For more useful advice... How would you go about finding unmarked graves of fallen soldiers from the Civil war, or mob dumping, or serial killers that are no longer alive to tell you where the graves are?

We have historical records and accounts to help narrow down the search for fallen civil war burials, and tipsters, or snitches to give us an idea where mobsters bury their victims. So far none of that info has come to light for buried bigfoot.

Edited by evancj

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I agree rashore. The interesting thing is that we do blindly stumble upon ancient human burials, hidden murder victims, and missing persons remains relativity often. I would think that would be true for bigoot as well.

We have historical records and accounts to help narrow down the search for fallen civil war burials, and tipsters, or snitches to give us an idea where mobsters bury their victims. So far none of that info has come to light for buried bigfoot.

Those same historical records include a lot of eyewitness stories, news reports, journals and diaries. The same kinds of things that are dismissed if they refer to anything unexplained. "Well in those days they made a lot of stuff up. But not the reports, news and stories I'm using, because I think they are real." How is a personnal recollection of some guy from Wisconsin about the battle of Gettysburg any more relable then a newspaper article claiming large skeletons were found in an Indian mound?

According to reports, news articles and various other sources, bones of large peoples had been found all over North America in the 18th and 19th centuries. Generally they are dismissed, but claiming no one ever found any bones is a bit overzealous. That nothing from that time still exists and is varifiable is more like what can be stated.

I've read of several people who claim to have found a dead bigfoot or shot one and then buried them, only to go back years later and be unable to find the remains. The assumption they are liars is an assumption, as we have no idea how the land might have changed and what mental condition the various people were in at the time, or at the much later time.

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I've read of several people who claim to have found a dead bigfoot or shot one and then buried them, only to go back years later and be unable to find the remains. The assumption they are liars is an assumption, as we have no idea how the land might have changed and what mental condition the various people were in at the time, or at the much later time.

I have read that too. But I find it hard to believe. I remember finding tadpoles as a child in puddles under school buildings. I have not been in the area for a good 30 years. I reckon I could take you back to within one meter from where I used to hunt tadpoles, or for that matter, fishing spots at the Nepean river or show anyone the weirs that small fish used to climb when I used to swim as a child. If one was to bury a body, I would think that would pretty much be a significant event, and something you would not easily forget.

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How is a personnal recollection of some guy from Wisconsin about the battle of Gettysburg any more relable then a newspaper article claiming large skeletons were found in an Indian mound?

If some guy from Wisconsin can lead you to a lost battleground or grave, I think that would be pretty convincing. In many cases, construction excavation leads to an important discovery. Some claimed we have even found the bones os Jesus, and put up a decent case, but we all got to see them. Even rocks from Mars. Nobody has ever confirmed one of these extraordinary Giant tales, and I do believe that such an extraordinary circumstance would lead to a crowd, which means many witnesses and usually some proof, and that is something we do not have. But for humans, we have much historical record, particularly over the last 2,000 years. As others have pointed out, the prime lands where man lives now, is lived in because it is the choice land. If this species existed for 10,000 years, they would surely have also taken residence in the more fruitful parts of the country. As such, one would expect that construction, as outlined earlier, would have turned up something by now. Surely Biff has not spent his entire existence in hiding?

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I wouldnt spend a dime on finding bigfoot or giants.... To spend money on anything like that I would have to have the slightest belief that it could be real.

I dont.

Edited by DBunker

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Those same historical records include a lot of eyewitness stories, news reports, journals and diaries. The same kinds of things that are dismissed if they refer to anything unexplained. "Well in those days they made a lot of stuff up. But not the reports, news and stories I'm using, because I think they are real." How is a personnal recollection of some guy from Wisconsin about the battle of Gettysburg any more relable then a newspaper article claiming large skeletons were found in an Indian mound?

According to reports, news articles and various other sources, bones of large peoples had been found all over North America in the 18th and 19th centuries. Generally they are dismissed, but claiming no one ever found any bones is a bit overzealous. That nothing from that time still exists and is varifiable is more like what can be stated.

I've read of several people who claim to have found a dead bigfoot or shot one and then buried them, only to go back years later and be unable to find the remains. The assumption they are liars is an assumption, as we have no idea how the land might have changed and what mental condition the various people were in at the time, or at the much later time.

I don't want to debate whether the bones are there or not, or whether BF is real. I don't personally think it is. I just want to think about what it would take to mount a large scale operation to find the earthly remains of such a critter, if hypothetically, one were real and leaving behind dead somewhere. thanks for those of you who have contributed thus far.

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I have read that too. But I find it hard to believe. I remember finding tadpoles as a child in puddles under school buildings. I have not been in the area for a good 30 years. I reckon I could take you back to within one meter from where I used to hunt tadpoles, or for that matter, fishing spots at the Nepean river or show anyone the weirs that small fish used to climb when I used to swim as a child. If one was to bury a body, I would think that would pretty much be a significant event, and something you would not easily forget.

Not everyone has that ability I'm afraid. That is why GPSs sell bigtime, people get lost even in their own neighborhoods.

I met a 70+ year old lady at the local 30+ acre park and she was wandering around the trails looking confused. She'd played in that area as a child, she said, but every single tree, the ponds and even the hills/mounds had changed since then. In 50+ years an entire forest can be composed of completely different trees. In places where the land is flat, with no landmarks, even 20 years could be enough that even the trees that were there are gone.

If some guy from Wisconsin can lead you to a lost battleground or grave, I think that would be pretty convincing.

Yes, but if he wrote it and published it in a magazine or newspaper, and did not back any of it, how trustworthy is that?

If this species existed for 10,000 years, they would surely have also taken residence in the more fruitful parts of the country. As such, one would expect that construction, as outlined earlier, would have turned up something by now. Surely Biff has not spent his entire existence in hiding?

That is a good assumption, but still an assumption. Monks and hermits purposefully seclude themselves in harsh areas to avoid outside influences. It is worth considering that BF does the same. They consciencely stay in the shadows to avoid being wiped out. Not likely, but possible.

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I don't want to debate whether the bones are there or not, or whether BF is real. I don't personally think it is. I just want to think about what it would take to mount a large scale operation to find the earthly remains of such a critter, if hypothetically, one were real and leaving behind dead somewhere. thanks for those of you who have contributed thus far.

Assuming that BFs are real, then the best places to look would be where sightings are most concentrated. That would reduce the area to be checked dramatically.

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OK, I'll bite. Do answer the OP, it would be a very daunting task to say the least, with the majority of the planning done sitting in front of a computer. The first thing I would do is to locate the state with the highest amount of sightings. With this done the next step would be to locate the area within the area where most of the sightings were reported. Meaning which county/parish did the majority of these sightings occur and even further more what area of that said county. Now that you have your area, you would need to locate proper habitat in that area. Meaning getting the topo maps out and searching for creeks, rivers, swamps, ridges, etc... A helicopter ride over the area would be a most useful tool as well. I say this because if these animals are as super intelligent as people think, then surely they would have enough sense not to bury their dead where the body could be moved or uncovered by natural happenings such as floods. I would also stay away from areas that have a high predator population. Predators, especially wolves and coyotes but not ruling out foxes, have a very keen sense of smell. This in turn allows them to find things underground, dig it up, and eat it. I would assume that in areas with high predator populations if a bigfoot were to bury their dead it would most likely be dug up and consumed. If this were to happen on a regular basis then we would have found bones or a body by now.

Well, now that all the preparation is done as to your location, its time to put boots on the ground. I would personally start with a grid search of some sort. Take your area, square it off into grids of a searchable size on your map, span out and walk the area. One to get a feel for how the land lays, also to try and spot anything that looks "squatchy", sorry I had to do it. I would spend my time looking for fresh sign. Fresh sign meaning fresh trails leading to and from probable shelter areas, fresh dug earth, etc... Once I have narrowed my grid down to the absolute most probable area, then I would try and incorporate cadaver dogs. I don't really think this would be very effective, mainly because the dogs would not have a scent to start on, but it could be worth a try. If money wasn't an option ground penetrating sonar would be a useful tool, but stay away from anything thermal. Obviously if its dead and buried then it's not putting off heat.

Now, once you have located something that you might want to dig up, well a camp shovel is going to take awhile. If the area is can be accessed by vehicle then renting a backhoe to start digging would be a lot more efficient. If not, well then get a good shovel and some help. Thats really all I could think of right now. I am sure there is some tweaking to my idea, also I am sure I will think of something else this was just off the top of my head.

Mike

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Wouldn't it just be a hell of a lot easier - and less expensive to go out and shoot one?

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Look for grave markers. If the family member of a bigfoot died, perhaps they marked the grave for later visitations.

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Wouldn't it just be a hell of a lot easier - and less expensive to go out and shoot one?

Yes, yes it would. Only problem is that whole finding one issue. Seems that they are pretty rare when actually looking for undeniable evidence. Must be cause they are so damn smart.

Mike

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