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Still Waters

What's Taking E.T. So Long to Find Us?

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I forgot two other common assumptions. People assume the government is covering up knowledge about ET. People assume that those who disagree with said assumptions are 'paid government disinformation agents'.

Assumptions really aren't the best manner of reasoning. :no:

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"Mathematically speaking, ET would have found us by now -- if he exists -- so we’re being consciously avoided for some reason, a new study concludes."

Most pertinent part of the article highlighted.

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they probably had found us but do not really like us so they observe at a distance while we destroy ourselves. Would we want contact with beings on another planet who are violent and self destructive?Besides, if they can travel inter galactically or even inter dimensionally, they need nothing we have to offer, but we would want their best weapons to kill more of each other.......

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they probably had found us but do not really like us so they observe at a distance while we destroy ourselves. Would we want contact with beings on another planet who are violent and self destructive?Besides, if they can travel inter galactically or even inter dimensionally, they need nothing we have to offer, but we would want their best weapons to kill more of each other.......

Er...so why come here at all then.

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The Fermi Paradox

The apparent size and age of the universe suggest that many technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations ought to exist.

However, this hypothesis seems inconsistent with the lack of observational evidence to support it.

In other words, they should be out there, but where are they? Below are some possible reasons for this lack of contact or observation.

Some possible techniques for ET's to explore the galaxy:

Some theoretical exploration techniques such as the Von Neumann probe (a self-replicating device) could exhaustively explore a galaxy the size of the Milky Way in as little as half a million years, with comparatively little investment in materials and energy relative to the results. If even a single civilization in the Milky Way attempted this, such probes could spread throughout the entire galaxy.

Another possibility for contact with an alien probe—one that would be trying to find human beings—is an alien Bracewell probe. Such a device would be an autonomous space probe whose purpose is to seek out and communicate with alien civilizations (as opposed to Von Neumann probes, which are usually described as purely exploratory).

Should alien artifacts be discovered, even here on Earth, they may not be recognizable as such. The products of an alien mind and an advanced alien technology might not be perceptible or recognizable as artificial constructs. Exploratory devices in the form of bio-engineered life forms created through synthetic biology would presumably disintegrate after a point, leaving no evidence; an alien information gathering system based on molecular nanotechnology could be all around us at this very moment, completely undetected.

Possible reasons why we haven't been contacted:

Few, if any, other civilizations currently exist

No other civilizations have arisen

It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy itself

It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy others

Life is periodically destroyed by naturally occurring events

Human beings were created alone

Inflation theory and the Youngness Argument

The universe is too young for other ET's to have evolved.

They do exist, but we see no evidence

Communication is impossible due to problems of scale

Intelligent civilizations are too far apart in space or time

It is too expensive to spread physically throughout the galaxy

Human beings have not been searching long enough

Communication is impossible for technical reasons

Humans are not listening properly

Civilizations only broadcast detectable radio signals for a brief period of time

They tend to experience a technological singularity

Another possibility is that technological civilizations invariably experience a technological singularity and attain a posthuman (or more properly, post-biological) character. Theoretical civilizations of this sort may have altered drastically enough to render communication impossible. The intelligences of a post-singularity civilization might require more information exchange than is possible through interstellar communication, for example. Or perhaps any information humanity might provide would appear elementary, and thus they do not try to communicate, any more than human beings attempt to talk to ants—even though we do ascribe a form of intelligence to them.

They are too alien

They are non-technological

The evidence is being suppressed

They choose not to interact with us

Earth is purposely not contacted (The zoo hypothesis)

Earth is purposely isolated (planetarium hypothesis)

It is dangerous to communicate

The Fermi paradox itself is what prevents communication

Perhaps the Fermi paradox itself—or the alien equivalent of it—is the ultimate reason for any civilization to avoid contact with other civilizations, even if no other obstacles existed. From any one civilization's point of view, it would be unlikely for them to be the first ones to make first contact and therefore likely for them to face the same possibly fatal problems that supposedly prevented the earlier civilizations from contacting them.[unclear,confused] So perhaps every civilization keeps quiet because of the possibility that there is a real reason for others to do so.

They are here unobserved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Edited by StarMountainKid

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Er...so why come here at all then.

my guess would be probably the same reason we want to go to mars or the other planets and the moon. What would WE do if we found a primitive civilization on any of them? Interact? One has to look at both sides as to whether contact is a good idea or not. But if we just want to take the planets resources for our own, my guess would be that the native would be negligible....................

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It appears that those who argue against ET evidence have had no personal experience with it, and those who argue on behalf of it have. Therein lies the dilemma. Once the world was assumed to be flat. Our best evidence suggests that it is round. There may be those observing from ground level that still believe it is flat, as they are only viewing it from their perspective. Until they set sea themselves, they will remain fixed in their own convictions. If they fear falling off the edge, they will never board the boat.

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Perhaps life is common and we're just not as special as we think we are - we'd have nothing to offer but a drain on their resources...since we'd clearly beg for technology or try to take it. Besides it can't just be one reason as to why we haven't made contact yet - the universe just isn't that simple. The closest stars either have no planets or none in the habitable zone and maybe any planets around sun-like stars are in a similar stage of development. Our solar system doesn't contain anything of real value and we're lots and lots of lightyears away from the nearest star with any planets at all.

I think the best we can hope for any time soon is another 'WOW' signal, but this time repeated and clearly artificial in origin - I highly doubt there would be a stereotypical first contact.

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"Mathematically speaking, ET would have found us by now -- if he exists -- so we’re being consciously avoided for some reason, a new study concludes."

Should have said "...if he exists, if he's been technologically advanced enough for a couple hundred thousand years and if he cared to ever start looking for us..."

Harte

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spanner in the works time...

If you look at the stories in the bible, not that Im preaching...it is the most amazing ET tale ever....And Jesus claims hes coming back, we just dont know when, but when he does, there will be thousands of 'crafts' with him, so that every eye will see

maybe this is the best ET story ever...right under our noses, and if so, contacts already happened...and we do have some evidence....and it will happen again!

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People assume that ET will have evolved in a pattern similar to humans and look like humans.

Lilly,

That recent discussion has been quite detailed and based on Evolution and the simple fact that almost no other animal has a body type that could lend itself to technological civilization, but you excused yourself from that discussion simply because one of the leading authorities who makes a great argument based on Evolution happens to also be a Christian in his private life.

Also the argument isn't that Aliens would "look like Humans"! They would look like 'Aliens' to us, the argument has been that a technological species would likely be bi-pedal giving them two free limbs to carry and manipulate objects which nessicarily would make them 'resemble' bi-pedal Hominids.

Seems like a great deal of assumptions if you ask me.

Maybe so, but again I'd point out that assumptions are not automatically untrue. When hypotheses are based on what we do know and on logic, what is the alternative? An argument from ignorance! We don't/can't know so 'Aliens' that achieve technological civilization MUST be different. I'll take the former argument over the latter any day.

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I think they found us, they just don't like what they found.

Hitman

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I think they found us, they just don't like what they found.

Hitman

and I still prefer to believe in the possibility of the religous aspect...all religions, speak of supreme beings coming from the skies, and going back there too

why is that? Its the ultimate ET encounter, EVER...and well documented...yet I guess the 'tag' religion just puts people off even looking into it... but its all there, powerful beings, magical powers (technology).. flying craft... the whole 9 yards! But people still prefer to believe otherwise....yet still keep on searching the myriads of dubious ufo stories and blurfo media clips!

Edited by bouncer

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Also the argument isn't that Aliens would "look like Humans"! They would look like 'Aliens' to us, the argument has been that a technological species would likely be bi-pedal giving them two free limbs to carry and manipulate objects which nessicarily would make them 'resemble' bi-pedal Hominids.

My reference (on this thread) was to this belief.

I have left the other conversation as I don't think anyone can positively predict what ET will look like (my opinion).

Edited by Lilly
clarification

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Should have said "...if he exists, if he's been technologically advanced enough for a couple hundred thousand years and if he cared to ever start looking for us..."

Harte

And to add to that, "..if technologically advanced enough and generation ships/wormholes/breaking the light speed barrier are actually feasible."

Cheers,

Badeskov

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It came in my mailbox with mine Badeskov.

I send it to through the usual disinfo courier - mainstream science.

Harte

Typical for those admin types to bungle it up rolleyes.gif

But thank you very much for your diligence in this matter and I appreciate the the use of courier - the only trustworthy there is thumbsup.gif

Cheers,

Badeskov

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But his equation says this, essentially :

1. Aliens must be willing to travel between stars

2. They must be within 5 light years of us

3. They must have come directly here

Space is pretty darn big. There is every possibility that intelligent life exists 10 or more light years from us... and that it decided to either stay home or strike out exploring in an opposite direction from Earth. I mean, we might think we are pretty obvious and all, but to be honest Earth and human life is not even a spec of a dust particle in the scale of the universe. We aren't even as recognizable as the who's that Horton heard.

I will also mention something else. A spacefaring civilization is gonna be pretty darn advanced. They would look at us as if we were ants. And do you wander around looking for anthills and then bending over and trying to strike up a conversation with them?

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But his equation says this, essentially :

1. Aliens must be willing to travel between stars

2. They must be within 5 light years of us

3. They must have come directly here

4. They want to make direct contact with us, or be very conspicuous about their researches, like doing something foolish like landing on the White House Lawn. How do we (in our modest endeavours so far) investigate other Planets? With robotic probes, which are small and discreet, don't we. Admittedly, that may be out of necessity, since it's a lot easier to construct a robotic Probe than a manned spaceship; but a probe from an advanced Alien civilisation could be minute in size and, with AI, able to decide for itself what to do and what is and what's not interesting. And it would probably not want to make Contact with the subject of its studies; that wouldn't be scientific. So i don't know why people (at least, Skeptical people) always seem to assume that any ET craft would have to be a manned craft that would insist, the first thing it does, on being Taken to our Leaders. And if (from what they've concluded from the available evidence) that doesn't seem to have happened, then they conclude that ET is not Out There.

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and I still prefer to believe in the possibility of the religous aspect...all religions, speak of supreme beings coming from the skies, and going back there too

why is that? Its the ultimate ET encounter, EVER...and well documented...yet I guess the 'tag' religion just puts people off even looking into it... but its all there, powerful beings, magical powers (technology).. flying craft... the whole 9 yards! But people still prefer to believe otherwise....yet still keep on searching the myriads of dubious ufo stories and blurfo media clips!

I think it's mainly due to people seeing flight as something magical rather than a science. There is no real evidence that any ancient cultures encountered extraterrestrial beings. Sure they may write stories about it on the wall but there is no way to tell if they're facts or fables.

Hitman

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Who said that ET exist, ETs are human concept. Its a faith. As Hegel said time and religion are human concept, same thing preaches Budism.

They refused to believe. They only support meditation. Sorry if I gotten too far Im little drunk.

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I think it's mainly due to people seeing flight as something magical rather than a science. There is no real evidence that any ancient cultures encountered extraterrestrial beings. Sure they may write stories about it on the wall but there is no way to tell if they're facts or fables.

Hitman

hhmmm, but the sheer 'concept' of the biblical stories? Powerful beings coming down....all kinds of stuff, Ezekiels wheels for ex, and if you had a quick browse of that site link I posted, it may get you curious, tell you what, go here and read what the first few links are about :

http://bibleufo.com/

and considering these 'stories' are from thousands of years ago, just where did they get their notions!...They didnt have a tv to put such images in their heads, now did they? Nor tales of roswel, the biblical accounts are the FIRST and most detailed accounts...

Edited by bouncer

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The Fermi Paradox

In other words, they should be out there, but where are they? Below are some possible reasons for this lack of contact or observation.

Some possible techniques for ET's to explore the galaxy:

Possible reasons why we haven't been contacted:

Few, if any, other civilizations currently exist

No other civilizations have arisen

It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy itself

It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy others

Life is periodically destroyed by naturally occurring events

Human beings were created alone

Inflation theory and the Youngness Argument

The universe is too young for other ET's to have evolved.

They do exist, but we see no evidence

Communication is impossible due to problems of scale

Intelligent civilizations are too far apart in space or time

It is too expensive to spread physically throughout the galaxy

Human beings have not been searching long enough

Communication is impossible for technical reasons

Humans are not listening properly

Civilizations only broadcast detectable radio signals for a brief period of time

They tend to experience a technological singularity

They are too alien

They are non-technological

The evidence is being suppressed

They choose not to interact with us

Earth is purposely not contacted (The zoo hypothesis)

Earth is purposely isolated (planetarium hypothesis)

It is dangerous to communicate

The Fermi paradox itself is what prevents communication

They are here unobserved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

And why would they want to contact hostile humans (I wouldn't) when they could enjoy whales and dolphins!

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The answer my friends is blowing in the wind and its 42 as always and forever ! :tu:

On top of that E.T will miss us ever time,have you ever looked out the window at Warp 20 ? Were just a fuzzy red blur as they zip off to Milliyways ! :lol:

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Would you as an advanced species simply land on the lawn of the Whitehouse and declare you aren't alone in the galaxy?

That might be one scenario, where you walk in with the President and discuss future advancements for mankind by giving knowledge,

or, you might be held at gunpoint, whisked away, forever interogated, your ship confiscated etc..

I'd choose option 3. Stay away.

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