lost_shaman Posted March 5, 2012 #151 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Gidday Mate I am trying to think of the things that gave species on the planet an advantage, and wondering of some different aspects can be deployed amongst them. Still struggling to get past the bipedal model with 2 arms though. I agree from a logical POV it is extraordinarily hard to move beyond that point if a species must be a technological civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted March 6, 2012 #152 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Gidday Mate I am trying to think of the things that gave species on the planet an advantage, and wondering of some different aspects can be deployed amongst them. Still struggling to get past the bipedal model with 2 arms though. morning Psyche, I have been pondering more ongoing/future developements. What are the next possible stages for humans? how can we become 'slicker' models? What about hair? is this likely to slowly vanish altogether from humans? what about changes in size?.... back onto the greys: if we look at a standard grey (from the average description)...would this model have any advantages to humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted March 6, 2012 #153 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hey quillius, I get the feeling that you maybe talking about extremes like Mars that psyche talked about. I would also point out that this has happened a number of times on Earth as well depending on what type of life we are talking about. For example Dino's ruled the Earth for over a hundred million years, on that type of time frame Earth's 'ice ages' are a relatively new phenomena that could easily be considered a serious 'turn' for the worst in a literal sense. Despite that bi-pedal hominids flurish with only one known serious genetic 'bottleneck' coninciding with the Toba eruption. So over all 'we' Hominids did quite well and we also know the Neandertals survived what ever it was (Toba?) that caused the Homo Sapeins 'bottleneck'. Hey LS, yes I was talking about extremes as you point out. I suppose history shows that 'slow' changes in environments (even becoming extreme) can be adapted to by life, its the sudden changes that create 'extinction' of species because of the limited time to adapt On Earth it's common for groups of the same species to vary in size due to a number of factors while the Earths gravity is more-or-less constant across the planet. So it seems the role of gravity is quite minor @ 1G and is likely to be true up to 1.5G before I'd even consider Gravity a serious problem. good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 7, 2012 #154 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I agree from a logical POV it is extraordinarily hard to move beyond that point if a species must be a technological civilization. Agreed, I just cannot see the advantage of say and extra arm, or an extra leg, the design we have seems quite minimal and achieves maximum function. Considering convergeant evolution, I do not know why anyone would consider this form unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 7, 2012 #155 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) morning Psyche, I have been pondering more ongoing/future developements. What are the next possible stages for humans? how can we become 'slicker' models? What about hair? is this likely to slowly vanish altogether from humans? what about changes in size?.... back onto the greys: if we look at a standard grey (from the average description)...would this model have any advantages to humans? Gidday Mate! We really have had too few conversations of late! I have read an interesting take on the human race keeping hair, but becoming more attractive, which seems to make sense as we have a handle on food, our bodies can now concentrate on selecting the best possible mates for procreation? One idea that I have heard has us all becoming one coffee coloured people with large pretty eyes, slim figures and females with pert breasts It might just be someones fantasy, but I think the procreation angle makes a modicum of sense? Sounds like a bright future anyway. Looking at Greys, I am assuming we are looking at a more likely model without the skinny neck, like Paul perhaps? Personally, I cannot see any advantages at all. I do not know if the bigger brain would be of use to major intelligence leaps, I think that would result in more acute senses? Mostly I see more disadvantages and if they remained on earth, a more robust neck. They are short, little legs so they could not hunt all that well, and arms are very skinny, not great to hunt, but then again, I guess an environment might have a say there? Like the bird Paul eats, how would his ancestors have caught the bird in the first place? Cheers. Edited March 7, 2012 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted March 7, 2012 #156 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Gidday Mate! We really have had too few conversations of late! I have read an interesting take on the human race keeping hair, but becoming more attractive, which seems to make sense as we have a handle on food, our bodies can now concentrate on selecting the best possible mates for procreation? One idea that I have heard has us all becoming one coffee coloured people with large pretty eyes, slim figures and females with pert breasts It might just be someones fantasy, but I think the procreation angle makes a modicum of sense? Sounds like a bright future anyway. Looking at Greys, I am assuming we are looking at a more likely model without the skinny neck, like Paul perhaps? Personally, I cannot see any advantages at all. I do not know if the bigger brain would be of use to major intelligence leaps, I think that would result in more acute senses? Mostly I see more disadvantages and if they remained on earth, a more robust neck. They are short, little legs so they could not hunt all that well, and arms are very skinny, not great to hunt, but then again, I guess an environment might have a say there? Like the bird Paul eats, how would his ancestors have caught the bird in the first place? Cheers. Gidday matey, yes it seems you have a similar work/family workload similar to myself with regards to hunting.....surely this requirement becomes redundant as far as physical capability due to the similtaneous advancing of technology. What I mean is that we dont have extra limbs due to the additional energy required, so why should our limbs not also become easier to manage (along with smaller bodies) seeing as the need for strength in hunting becomes irrelevant, as we have reached a stage that doesnt require strength for hunting (food)...so in a way it makes more sense to me that greys could be a natural progression for humans. Edited March 7, 2012 by quillius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 8, 2012 #157 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Gidday matey, yes it seems you have a similar work/family workload similar to myself with regards to hunting.....surely this requirement becomes redundant as far as physical capability due to the similtaneous advancing of technology. What I mean is that we dont have extra limbs due to the additional energy required, so why should our limbs not also become easier to manage (along with smaller bodies) seeing as the need for strength in hunting becomes irrelevant, as we have reached a stage that doesnt require strength for hunting (food)...so in a way it makes more sense to me that greys could be a natural progression for humans. Gidday Mate I think we still need to maintain some muscular proportion as agriculture and construction will always require physical effort, and we are proud of our bodies. We work them to look good. If we got smaller, and our centre of gravity changed, would it be easier to manage smaller limbs, or would it make tasks harder? I do not thin it is an impossible form, but I think the differences are too great for humans to go down that path. I always wonder if greys are supposed to have big eyes, or if they are just supposed to wear space goggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted March 8, 2012 #158 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Gidday Mate I think we still need to maintain some muscular proportion as agriculture and construction will always require physical effort, and we are proud of our bodies. Hey psyche, I was going to say something quite similar but you beat me to it! All of the basic things we have to lift and carry around will never get any less heavy as Gravity on Earth isn't going to change. Maybe quillius can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is thinking along the lines of "greys" being the future of Human evolution. I just can't see that being the case, but I do think we will be able to genetically engineer such a thing in the future if we want to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted March 8, 2012 #159 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Gidday Mate I think we still need to maintain some muscular proportion as agriculture and construction will always require physical effort, and we are proud of our bodies. We work them to look good. If we got smaller, and our centre of gravity changed, would it be easier to manage smaller limbs, or would it make tasks harder? I do not thin it is an impossible form, but I think the differences are too great for humans to go down that path. I always wonder if greys are supposed to have big eyes, or if they are just supposed to wear space goggles. Well we must stick around for a few thousand years If we can manage that ! THe greying up or down of our skin may happen due to light ,diet,many factors, hundreds of years of getting tatoo`s and then removing them ect,then the self need to keep in shape, will be a factor of just how important that is in our new society. It will have a big influence on our out come. Just Look at our population right now ! Lots of Bi-racial kids and peeps. ITs starting ! add to that floating around in Deep space,If we can survive ourselfs ! We will get thinner and smaller ! No doubt It will be a Great thing to watch ! E.T here we come ! :alien: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 8, 2012 #160 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hey psyche, I was going to say something quite similar but you beat me to it! All of the basic things we have to lift and carry around will never get any less heavy as Gravity on Earth isn't going to change. Maybe quillius can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is thinking along the lines of "greys" being the future of Human evolution. I just can't see that being the case, but I do think we will be able to genetically engineer such a thing in the future if we want to do so. Hi Mate Yes, I felt he might be heading down that path too. I would say you are completely right, being that we are already dabbling in genetic manipulation. I thin he was thinking if we get machines to do our work, our limbs might go to pieces, maybe something like in the kids movie Wall-E, but those humans did not follow the "Grey" physiology, rather the opposite. In fact, that seems more likely the way we might develop if we did less physical work looking at people today who have little physical exercise in their lifestyle, but at the end of the day we still need to build the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 8, 2012 #161 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well we must stick around for a few thousand years If we can manage that ! THe greying up or down of our skin may happen due to light ,diet,many factors, hundreds of years of getting tatoo`s and then removing them ect,then the self need to keep in shape, will be a factor of just how important that is in our new society. It will have a big influence on our out come. Just Look at our population right now ! Lots of Bi-racial kids and peeps. ITs starting ! add to that floating around in Deep space,If we can survive ourselfs ! We will get thinner and smaller ! No doubt It will be a Great thing to watch ! E.T here we come ! :alien: I dunno, I still like the idea of the eventual coffee coloured race with big pretty eyes slim figures and pert breasts on females. It sounds so good, that I am just going to believe that LOL. Looking at mixed races now, some examples of these people are remarkably attractive. Perhaps much to look forward to? As long as we do not get all diet conscious and give up on BBQ's I do not know that good looks trumps a decent barbie. I wonder if we every will "live on space" it is not too healthy for our bodies, but I wonder if genetic engineering can help out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted March 8, 2012 #162 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Hey psyche, I totally agree we will build better machines. For example like we see in movies where people step into bi-pedal exoskeleton like machines like in Avatar, I believe these will be developed and allow average sized people to carry around heavy payloads and doing so would just feel natural unlike the heavy machinery we use today which require training. But such a machine won't cause you to lose muscle mass any more than operating a bulldozer will. On the other-hand machines require lots of precious energy, but just think how efficient biology is. I hate house flies, but every once and a while I'm amazed at how much energy the little buggers posses! Give one a microscopic amount of sugar and it can buzz around for days! But we would need to make some seriously great breakthroughs in battery technology to build a mechanical housefly that could match the real thing and it would still need to use 'our' electricity which we can use for something else. So I think the distant future of some technology will be biological because it would be really efficient and these could use refined waste. Edited March 8, 2012 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted March 8, 2012 #163 Share Posted March 8, 2012 ......... greys could be a natural progression for humans. Gidday MateI think we still need to maintain some muscular proportion as agriculture and construction will always require physical effort, and we are proud of our bodies. We work them to look good. If we got smaller, and our centre of gravity changed, would it be easier to manage smaller limbs, or would it make tasks harder? I do not thin it is an impossible form, but I think the differences are too great for humans to go down that path. I always wonder if greys are supposed to have big eyes, or if they are just supposed to wear space goggles. space goggles......maybe yes it would make tasks harder but if we are creating 'super' machines thus reducing the need for human labour intense work why would evolution not go down that path? If I work it backwards use this example, lets say humans were not as intelligent as we are and we could not create machines as we do now....the requirement for bigger stronger bodies would become crititcal, but because of machines this negates the need for strength. Hey psyche,I was going to say something quite similar but you beat me to it! All of the basic things we have to lift and carry around will never get any less heavy as Gravity on Earth isn't going to change. Maybe quillius can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is thinking along the lines of "greys" being the future of Human evolution. I just can't see that being the case, but I do think we will be able to genetically engineer such a thing in the future if we want to do so. to an extent this was what I was suggesting as per my quote above. With regards to gravity, if we accept greys as a 'possible' form of a humanoid model that could achieve technological advancement, then why could another planet with a slightly different gravity not produce this type of 'humanoid'? we would still follow a similar evolutionary path but subtle differences due to the 'environment' would always occur...?? Hey psyche,I totally agree we will build better machines. For example like we see in movies where people step into bi-pedal exoskeleton like machines like in Avatar, I believe these will be developed and allow average sized people to carry around heavy payloads and doing so would just feel natural unlike the heavy machinery we use today which require training. But such a machine won't cause you to lose muscle mass any more than operating a bulldozer will.On the other-hand machines require lots of precious energy, but just think how efficient biology is. I hate house flies, but every once and a while I'm amazed at how much energy the little buggers posses! Give one a microscopic amount of sugar and it can buzz around for days! But we would need to make some seriously great breakthroughs in battery technology to build a mechanical housefly that could match the real thing and it would still need to use 'our' electricity which we can use for something else. So I think the distant future of some technology will be biological because it would be really efficient and these could use refined waste. now theres a fascinating train of thought.....hmmm.....need to ponder that one a little further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted March 8, 2012 #164 Share Posted March 8, 2012 who`s ready to go out on a limb and bet we dont make it to the next Two hundred years ? It afterall would take a few hundred generations to evolve into something bio-vastly different , but You never know we may make it ! It would be great to invent a time machine to see what we become.or not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted March 8, 2012 #165 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well we must stick around for a few thousand years If we can manage that ! THe greying up or down of our skin may happen due to light ,diet,many factors, hundreds of years of getting tatoo`s and then removing them ect,then the self need to keep in shape, will be a factor of just how important that is in our new society. It will have a big influence on our out come. Just Look at our population right now ! Lots of Bi-racial kids and peeps. ITs starting ! add to that floating around in Deep space,If we can survive ourselfs ! We will get thinner and smaller ! No doubt It will be a Great thing to watch ! E.T here we come ! :alien: You know psyche101 ! We adopted a bi-racial baby at birth and he was a white as a lilly,beautiful curly blondish hair ,such a angel ! Now he`s gotten a bit darker,but his features are to die for ! a gentic balance and strength that the doctors say is a gift ! Im a firm believer in the cross breeding of all mankind ! We will see the positive results and world peace could be as simple as all comming together in our growth ! One can only do there own part I guess ! My son who`s now 16 does ask from time to time If were all alone in this universe ! My best answer is " Were all together in this big Universe just waiting for the invite to the Party ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 9, 2012 #166 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Hey psyche, I totally agree we will build better machines. For example like we see in movies where people step into bi-pedal exoskeleton like machines like in Avatar, I believe these will be developed and allow average sized people to carry around heavy payloads and doing so would just feel natural unlike the heavy machinery we use today which require training. But such a machine won't cause you to lose muscle mass any more than operating a bulldozer will. Hi Lost Shaman That is a really good point, I was thinking we still need to mine and refine the basic materials, and build the things, which I would think would keep people fairly fit and provide a physical benchmark, but you are completely right. I have not driven a Bulldozer, but I have driven tractors and harvesters, and a day on one of those is really hard work. It turned me into a very stocky youth. On the other-hand machines require lots of precious energy, but just think how efficient biology is. I hate house flies, but every once and a while I'm amazed at how much energy the little buggers posses! Give one a microscopic amount of sugar and it can buzz around for days! But we would need to make some seriously great breakthroughs in battery technology to build a mechanical housefly that could match the real thing and it would still need to use 'our' electricity which we can use for something else. So I think the distant future of some technology will be biological because it would be really efficient and these could use refined waste. Put like that, a housefly is certainly amazing. That is brilliant, again I have to agree, this is surely the way to go, I have wondered often why we do not use plant materials myself to create fuels. A Diesel car can run on vegetable oil, and Indy Cars run on Methanol. Surely it is only a matter of time before Agriculture replaces oil mining. It would be quite a boost to the economy to see farming get a shot in the arm. I would love to see farming come back in a big way. Edited March 9, 2012 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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