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Antilles

Anhkenaten: monotheist or alien?

59 posts in this topic

He ascended the Eygptian throne somewhere around 1353 BC as Amenhotep IV. Within a few years he changed his name to Ankhenaten and began to reconstruct Egypt in the image he wanted - that of the divine Aten, the sun disk. Ankhenaten sent craftsmen around Eygpt to chisel out the names of other gods and only temples to the Aten were allowed to be constructed during his reign.

Artistically as well as religiously, Ankhenaten reconstructed how the Pharoah and the royal family were perceived - elongated skulls, pear shaped bodies with skinny arms and legs. Traditionally, the Pharoah had been depicted with broad shoulders and narrow hips showing that he could carry the load of his kingdom.

Binding body parts has been a feature of cultures around the world: feet in China, necks in Africa, skulls in Africa and South America. It has been suggested that binding infants' craniums is an attempt to recreate the skulls of aliens: big eyes, long craniums.

Was Ankhenaten a descendant of aliens? His ancestors were never depicted as he was. Was his worship of the one god, the Aten, a sign of his knowledge of Sirius, the founding star in our universe?

Or was his appearance the result of a genetic abnormality and his belief in the Aten a revolt against the overwhelming interference of the priests of Amun-Ra?

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Was Ankhenaten a descendant of aliens? His ancestors were never depicted as he was. Was his worship of the one god, the Aten, a sign of his knowledge of Sirius, the founding star in our universe?

Im not sure what this means. Why does belief in a sun god indicate knowledge of sirius? And what do you mean a "founding star in our universe"?

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Im not sure what this means. Why does belief in a sun god indicate knowledge of sirius? And what do you mean a "founding star in our universe"?

Very likely that is based on Robert Temple's book about Sirius/the Dogon.

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Since Sirius (A) is estimated to be between 2 and 3 billion years old (younger than our own little star), and the Universe is thought to be older than 13 billion years of age - I don't really see how Sirius could be the 'founding star of our Universe'...

It is the brightest star (other than our own) and it was important to early Egyptian societies due to it's rising and setting coinciding with the annual Nile Flood and thus helped with agricultural planning - but other than that it had no impact on early peoples...

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Besides that he banned polytheism he didnt believe in RA sun god, he believed in sun disk god.

While he was on throne Egypt have had cultural revolution, that is main mystery. What happend? And why? He changed art,body proportion,statues,language ...

Scholars debate about origin of his wife Nefertittiti because of her long neck,high cheeks and stuff. I wonder will we ever locate her tomb? As far as I know we still dont know.

Some say that he move many gods and have atheist look on sun disk as physhical power of the sun.

Akhenaten done some realy stupid things. Like bulding city on stupid location. After his death city was left. He banned festivals. People hated him because of that. Because festivals were link between religion (gods) and people.

Second mystery is how Akhenaten died? What happened to his tomb?

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So my answer would be a question- Was he atheist or revolutionist ? :ph34r:

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I fink dis guy gotta be a alien or sutin.

or sum alien come and stole his soul or sutin.

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WalkLikeEgyptian_399.jpg

:rolleyes:

Edited by Melo

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Akhenaten an alien? Really? People are still trying to present this as credible? Maybe this was something brought up on a recent episode of Ancient Aliens, but then again, Ancient Aliens is not a platform for credible information.

Akhenaten a monotheist? Well, this one's much closer to the truth. At least it falls within the realm of plausible reality. (Apologies for the attitude. As is obvious, I have a hard time taking any alien argument seriously.)

Some general facts about Akhenaten might be in order. Some of the information in Antilles's OP is pretty accurate, especially in the first paragraph. We know Akhenaten's parentage and lineage, stretching all the way back to Amunhotep I (1541-1520 BCE) early in Dynasty 18. In fact, Akhenaten belongs to one of the longest line of kings in pharaonic history. It's not as though he popped out of nowhere. We even know of his brother, Tuthmose, who as the eldest son of Amunhotep III was supposed to have been the next king but died young, paving the way for Amunhotep IV (Akhenaten). That said, the timeline and lineage to which Akhenaten belongs fixes him firmly into the history of pharaonic Egypt--this alone disproves sci-fi notions of alien origin.

So, what of the bizarre appearance of Akhenaten and family in royal artwork of his period? It's probably important to remember that it's not just Akhenaten who appears with elongated features, wide hips, full lips, and the like. All six of his daughters also are typically shown this way. So is his principal wife, Nefertiti. It used to be argued that this was due to some medical condition such as Marfan's syndrome, but it seems odd, then, that Nefertiti should be depicted the same. She does not seem to have had any relations to or familial connections with the royal Tuthmoside line prior to marrying Akhenaten. Are we to expect that Akhenaten, suffering from Marfan's, happened to marry a woman who also suffered from this rare disorder? Unlikely.

What about skull binding, then? This would account for the decidedly elongated head in Amarna Period statuary and relief carvings, but it doesn't account for the elongation of other body parts. But in point of fact skull elongation, while part of the traditions of other African tribal peoples, was not a tradition practiced in pharaonic society in North Africa. There's no evidence for it in the plentiful human remains that have been recovered from pharaonic times. Skull binding is not involved, then.

It's easy for people to fall into stereotypes and misidentifications with such things. It requires careful research and study to understand what's going on. And to be sure, no real answers whatsoever will be found on Ancient Aliens. It's almost a certainty that the bizarre body shapes in Amarna statuary and relief carvings are due to a religious-art convention. Akhenaten's favored deity, the Aten, was neither male nor female. Akhenaten held himself and his queen to be the only legitimate emissaries and intermediaries of the Aten, so he wished to be thought of in the same divine manner as the Aten. This meant appearing in a similarly androgynous way--neither male nor female, but with aspects of both. Moreover, this is certainly not how all Amarna Period royal art was designed. The androgynous appearance in statuary and relief carving tends to date to the earlier stages of Akhenaten's reign. There is plenty of artwork, especially from later in his reign, where Akhenaten and his family members look quite normal.

So that explains the artwork: no disease is at play, and certainly there is nothing to do with aliens. It was a religious-art convention. It's also useful to point out, perhaps, that of the thorough genetic and pathological examinations performed on numerous royal mummies from this exact period in 2007-2009, almost none of the bodies evidences any disease like Marfan's. The only possible exceptions are the two stillborn daughters of Tutankhamun.

What of Akhenaten's religion, which we tend to call Atenism? Akhenaten certainly wasn't the first to know of Aten. This deity had long been a minor manifestation of the sun god Re, and the Aten considerably predates Akehnaten. His own father and one of the greatest kings of ancient Egypt, Amunhotep III, was a devout worshiper of the Aten but kept it mostly personal. It was certainly through Amunhotep III that Akhenaten got his reverence for the Aten. It was Akhenaten who went to extremes and turned worship of the Aten into the new state religion. To do this he soon had to proscribe the worship of the previous state god, Amun, which required that Amun's temples be shut down. The state could not afford two main deities, so the Aten won out.

Was Atenism a true form of monotheism? For much of Akhenaten's reign, it decidedly was not. Evident in much Amarna artwork is Akhenaten's tolerance for most other solar deities like Re, Horus, and re-Horakthy. Maat, the goddess of divine order and justice, also featured in early Atenism. It was only toward the end of Akhenaten's reign that Atenism did in fact become monotheistic. It was an evolution of religion through which Akhenaten came to regard the Aten as the one and only god. This hardly means everyone in Egypt believed the same, and in fact there's ample evidence from the archaeology of Akhenaten's own city, Akhetaten, that many people still held to polytheistic traditions in their own homes. And to be sure, once Akhenaten died, Atenism itself soon followed to the grave. In all respects Atenism was a weak and unsuccessful attempt at monotheism, but it was the world's first.

As usual I've engaged in a long-winded diatribe so I'll stop here. Everyone can wake up now.

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...

Akhenaten done some realy stupid things. Like bulding city on stupid location. After his death city was left. He banned festivals. People hated him because of that. Because festivals were link between religion (gods) and people.

What's wrong with the location of Akhenaten's city? It worked well for him. Of most importance to Akhenaten is that it was virgin territory, so it was perfect for kicking off the veneration of an upgraded and rebooted deity that had known minor status before this time. Had Akhenaten been more far-thinking in how Atenism might be continued after his death, Atenism itself might not have died so soon, too. But while Atenism lasted, the city of Akhetaten (modern Tell el Amarna) worked very well.

There were only certain festivals that would've been banned, those of course being associated with deities whose worship Akhenaten disallowed. Granted, these were some of the culture's most popular deities (e.g., Amun, Osiris, Sokar), so Akhenaten's choices had to have been unpopular.

I've noticed a tendency among numerous modern folks to see Akhenaten in terms of a peace-loving, utopian-seeking hippie. This is a very naive and anachronistic view, to be sure. To accomplish what he did, Akhenaten had to have been quite a despot. There's no getting around it. Akhenaten had to have been very unpopular. There's a reason subsequent kings disallowed the mention of his name and required that Akhenaten henceforth be called "the Criminal."

Second mystery is how Akhenaten died? What happened to his tomb?

Akhenaten's tomb is in the royal wadi to the east of Amarna. It's still there, some of it well preserved and some of it in ruins. His sarcophagus was found completely smashed. Almost certainly his body was destroyed in antiquity, if not within a few years of his burial. That said, no one can be sure how Akhenaten died, but we can state confidently that there's no evidence for usurpation or assassination.

I should note that Zahi Hawass believes the mummy found in the early 1900s in the tomb designated KV55, is the mummy of Akhenaten. He reported as much in the published JAMA findings from the mummy examinations of 2007-2009. Almost nobody agrees with Hawass, however, and subsequently he backed off the claim somewhat. The body found in KV55 is almost certainly that of a man too young to have been Akhenaten.

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Maybe he was a monotesitic alien ;-)

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All monotheists are aliens. Let's just call it a day with that conclusion.

Seriously, though, I don't understand why people keep assuming he was an extraterrestrial. From the perspective of art historians he was portrayed in artwork the way he was because the subjects hated him and wanted to put as much blemish on his memory as they possibly could.

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All monotheists are aliens. Let's just call it a day with that conclusion.

Klaatu Barada Nicto!

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Klaatu Barada Nicto!

KEANU?

Don't kill me. The original was much better.

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In my earlier post I mentioned instances in which Amarna Period artwork shows Akhenaten as quite ordinary looking. I just took a tour of Google images to try to find examples and came up with some, in amongst the plethora of bizarre forms with which most people are familiar. So, there's this one, which is part of a shabti figurine found in his tomb:

akhenaten_3.jpg

Many trial pieces have been excavated at Amarna, principally from the ruins of the royal workshop. Here are three busts of Akhenaten, in which the outer two look quite normal while the middle one evidences the distinctive Amarna style:

3egy_r.gif

Numerous pieces depicting Akhenaten are somewhat transitional, such as the following two:

akhenaten.jpg

amenofiIVnefertiti.jpg

Here the male form looks quite ordinary aside from a bit of a paunch and slightly flared hips, a style which influenced subsequent artisans and can be seen well beyond the Amarna Period.

And there's always the famous bust of Nefertiti, now in Berlin:

pharaoh-nefertiti2.jpg

Here there's nothing unusual about the facial features of the great queen. In fact, she is beautiful. This bust is rightly regarded as one of the masterpieces of pharaonic artwork.

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In my earlier post I mentioned instances in which Amarna Period artwork shows Akhenaten as quite ordinary looking. I just took a tour of Google images to try to find examples and came up with some, in amongst the plethora of bizarre forms with which most people are familiar. So, there's this one, which is part of a shabti figurine found in his tomb:

akhenaten_3.jpg

Many trial pieces have been excavated at Amarna, principally from the ruins of the royal workshop. Here are three busts of Akhenaten, in which the outer two look quite normal while the middle one evidences the distinctive Amarna style:

3egy_r.gif

Numerous pieces depicting Akhenaten are somewhat transitional, such as the following two:

akhenaten.jpg

amenofiIVnefertiti.jpg

Here the male form looks quite ordinary aside from a bit of a paunch and slightly flared hips, a style which influenced subsequent artisans and can be seen well beyond the Amarna Period.

And there's always the famous bust of Nefertiti, now in Berlin:

pharaoh-nefertiti2.jpg

Here there's nothing unusual about the facial features of the great queen. In fact, she is beautiful. This bust is rightly regarded as one of the masterpieces of pharaonic artwork.

Then is it right to assume that the later deformed depictions of him were more a case of showing dislike than depicting true.. physical issues?

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Then is it right to assume that the later deformed depictions of him were more a case of showing dislike than depicting true.. physical issues?

Most of the unusual physical forms are from earlier in Akhenaten's reign, not later. Exceptions occur, of course: many of the decorations in Akhenaten's tomb display the elongations, wide hips, and the rest.

It is most definitely not a case of showing dislike, however. Glance at the thumbnails on this page of Google images: almost all of them display the oddly formed body so well known from Akhenaten's reign. Many if not most of these statues, reliefs, and other monuments were things Akhenaten himself would've seen. As far as can be determined, it was Akhenaten himself who instituted the extreme revisions to the canon of proportions used in artwork in former times.

I explained the conventional theory for Amarna Period artwork back in Post 9. I realize that post became very long, and many people who happen upon it probably think of me, "Gees, what a windbag!" and move on without reading it. And they would be right. I am a windbag. I make no apologies. In any case, I'll copy and paste the relevant portion from that post:

...It's almost a certainty that the bizarre body shapes in Amarna statuary and relief carvings are due to a religious-art convention. Akhenaten's favored deity, the Aten, was neither male nor female. Akhenaten held himself and his queen to be the only legitimate emissaries and intermediaries of the Aten, so he wished to be thought of in the same divine manner as the Aten. This meant appearing in a similarly androgynous way--neither male nor female, but with aspects of both. Moreover, this is certainly not how all Amarna Period royal art was designed. The androgynous appearance in statuary and relief carving tends to date to the earlier stages of Akhenaten's reign. There is plenty of artwork, especially from later in his reign, where Akhenaten and his family members look quite normal.

I hope this helps, Coyote Speaks. The salient thing to understand is, the odd appearance of Amarna forms was meant to elevate Akhenaten, not demean him. It may look decidedly odd to us modern folks, but of course it was not meant for us to see, was it?

I just realized I've been using terms like "Amarna Period artwork" without having paused to consider that not everyone knows what such terms mean. My apologies for that. "Amarna Period" is simply a term we use to describe the reign of Akhenaten and everything it entailed for that brief period in Dynasty 18.

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Most of the unusual physical forms are from earlier in Akhenaten's reign, not later. Exceptions occur, of course: many of the decorations in Akhenaten's tomb display the elongations, wide hips, and the rest.

It is most definitely not a case of showing dislike, however. Glance at the thumbnails on this page of Google images: almost all of them display the oddly formed body so well known from Akhenaten's reign. Many if not most of these statues, reliefs, and other monuments were things Akhenaten himself would've seen. As far as can be determined, it was Akhenaten himself who instituted the extreme revisions to the canon of proportions used in artwork in former times.

I explained the conventional theory for Amarna Period artwork back in Post 9. I realize that post became very long, and many people who happen upon it probably think of me, "Gees, what a windbag!" and move on without reading it. And they would be right. I am a windbag. I make no apologies. In any case, I'll copy and paste the relevant portion from that post:

...It's almost a certainty that the bizarre body shapes in Amarna statuary and relief carvings are due to a religious-art convention. Akhenaten's favored deity, the Aten, was neither male nor female. Akhenaten held himself and his queen to be the only legitimate emissaries and intermediaries of the Aten, so he wished to be thought of in the same divine manner as the Aten. This meant appearing in a similarly androgynous way--neither male nor female, but with aspects of both. Moreover, this is certainly not how all Amarna Period royal art was designed. The androgynous appearance in statuary and relief carving tends to date to the earlier stages of Akhenaten's reign. There is plenty of artwork, especially from later in his reign, where Akhenaten and his family members look quite normal.

I hope this helps, Coyote Speaks. The salient thing to understand is, the odd appearance of Amarna forms was meant to elevate Akhenaten, not demean him. It may look decidedly odd to us modern folks, but of course it was not meant for us to see, was it?

I just realized I've been using terms like "Amarna Period artwork" without having paused to consider that not everyone knows what such terms mean. My apologies for that. "Amarna Period" is simply a term we use to describe the reign of Akhenaten and everything it entailed for that brief period in Dynasty 18.

Apologies - I jumped in here to make a snarky comment and didn't read through all that was said before. Don't worry about being a windbag - you're an incredibly intelligent windbag and I always enjoy your posts. Mm. It actually makes me quite happy to read what you've said here and to know that my art history teacher was incorrect..

Thank you very much for clearing up the Amarna Period problem. I can rest better at night, and more accurately mock Ancient Aliens when they pull out those images now. :tu:

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Apologies - I jumped in here to make a snarky comment and didn't read through all that was said before. Don't worry about being a windbag - you're an incredibly intelligent windbag and I always enjoy your posts. Mm. It actually makes me quite happy to read what you've said here and to know that my art history teacher was incorrect..

Thank you very much for clearing up the Amarna Period problem. I can rest better at night, and more accurately mock Ancient Aliens when they pull out those images now. :tu:

Well, hey, I say anytime there's a chance to mock Ancient Aliens, you have to jump at it! :lol:

Glad I could be of help, Coyote Speaks. And I very much like the accolade "intelligent windbag"--makes me feel better. So was it your art history teacher who told you Amarna art was meant to ridicule Akhenaten?

I have nothing but great respect for teachers. It's the first field I went into and I didn't take to it. Still, it should be no surprise that teachers can be wrong, too. On occasion I come across kids of all ages at the museum (from elementary to college age) whose teachers have filled their heads with some strange stuff. A docent colleague of mine was once giving a tour to a group of school kids and was showing them a map of Africa so the kids could see where Egypt is located. The teacher asked if she could interrupt, and she then pointed to the middle of the continent of Africa and exclaimed: "Look, children, this is where my family comes from. Czechoslovakia!"

Oh boy. :blink:

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Well, hey, I say anytime there's a chance to mock Ancient Aliens, you have to jump at it! :lol:

Glad I could be of help, Coyote Speaks. And I very much like the accolade "intelligent windbag"--makes me feel better. So was it your art history teacher who told you Amarna art was meant to ridicule Akhenaten?

I have nothing but great respect for teachers. It's the first field I went into and I didn't take to it. Still, it should be no surprise that teachers can be wrong, too. On occasion I come across kids of all ages at the museum (from elementary to college age) whose teachers have filled their heads with some strange stuff. A docent colleague of mine was once giving a tour to a group of school kids and was showing them a map of Africa so the kids could see where Egypt is located. The teacher asked if she could interrupt, and she then pointed to the middle of the continent of Africa and exclaimed: "Look, children, this is where my family comes from. Czechoslovakia!"

Oh boy. :blink:

Then the children had to Czech her out, right? Yes, I deserve to be shunned for that one.

The art history teacher was the one who said that the manner in which Akhenaten was depicted was due to their displeasure with his rejection of their polytheistic faith. The great departure from the style was then corrected after his death and Egyptian art got 'normal' again.

Don't get me wrong, the class was fantastic. It's primarily due to the Art History and World History classes that I took that I enjoy these forums as much as I do. It built upon my interest in ancient history and allowed me to look at things a different way... saved me from going down the Ancient Aliens route. :blush:

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Interesting discussion going on here. I just saw the pbs episode about Akenhaten not too long ago & would like to see it again. I can't remember if anything was said about aliens or alien influence regarding the artwork. I need to go back & read thru this myself. I have attached a link to the page here.

http://www.pbs.org/empires/egypt/newkingdom/akenhaten.html

(Not a believer in aliens, myself. At least not at this time.)

Edited by msm57

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Most of the unusual physical forms are from earlier in Akhenaten's reign, not later. Exceptions occur, of course: many of the decorations in Akhenaten's tomb display the elongations, wide hips, and the rest.

It is most definitely not a case of showing dislike, however. Glance at the thumbnails on this page of Google images: almost all of them display the oddly formed body so well known from Akhenaten's reign. Many if not most of these statues, reliefs, and other monuments were things Akhenaten himself would've seen. As far as can be determined, it was Akhenaten himself who instituted the extreme revisions to the canon of proportions used in artwork in former times.

I explained the conventional theory for Amarna Period artwork back in Post 9. I realize that post became very long, and many people who happen upon it probably think of me, "Gees, what a windbag!" and move on without reading it. And they would be right. I am a windbag. I make no apologies. In any case, I'll copy and paste the relevant portion from that post:

...It's almost a certainty that the bizarre body shapes in Amarna statuary and relief carvings are due to a religious-art convention. Akhenaten's favored deity, the Aten, was neither male nor female. Akhenaten held himself and his queen to be the only legitimate emissaries and intermediaries of the Aten, so he wished to be thought of in the same divine manner as the Aten. This meant appearing in a similarly androgynous way--neither male nor female, but with aspects of both. Moreover, this is certainly not how all Amarna Period royal art was designed. The androgynous appearance in statuary and relief carving tends to date to the earlier stages of Akhenaten's reign. There is plenty of artwork, especially from later in his reign, where Akhenaten and his family members look quite normal.

I hope this helps, Coyote Speaks. The salient thing to understand is, the odd appearance of Amarna forms was meant to elevate Akhenaten, not demean him. It may look decidedly odd to us modern folks, but of course it was not meant for us to see, was it?

I just realized I've been using terms like "Amarna Period artwork" without having paused to consider that not everyone knows what such terms mean. My apologies for that. "Amarna Period" is simply a term we use to describe the reign of Akhenaten and everything it entailed for that brief period in Dynasty 18.

Hi kmt_sesh;

Just a few thoughts that may or maynot be valid, firstly could the warts n all depiction of Akhenaten be an expression of his humanity, as opposed to him being a god? Sort of celebrating the God outside rather than himself as the embodyment.

Also if there is no background information on Nefertitis past nor remains for either Nefertiti, or her children then how can head binding be completely discounted as an explanation for their appearance.

Thanks..

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Hi kmt_sesh;

Just a few thoughts that may or maynot be valid, firstly could the warts n all depiction of Akhenaten be an expression of his humanity, as opposed to him being a god? Sort of celebrating the God outside rather than himself as the embodyment.

Also if there is no background information on Nefertitis past nor remains for either Nefertiti, or her children then how can head binding be completely discounted as an explanation for their appearance.

Thanks..

http://adc.bmj.com/content/86/3/144.full

The practice of head deformation by pressure to an infant's skull dates back to 2000 bc when the Ancient Egyptians used head binding to produce a cosmetically pleasing and fashionable skull shape.1 With an increasing incidence of plagiocephaly (asymmetric skull) this practice, with a modern slant, is re-emerging. A simple web search resulted in five “paediatric offices” offering such a service. If an Ancient Egyptian walked into clinic today with their child's head bound between two planks of wood, we would be informing social services.

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http://adc.bmj.com/content/86/3/144.full

The practice of head deformation by pressure to an infant's skull dates back to 2000 bc when the Ancient Egyptians used head binding to produce a cosmetically pleasing and fashionable skull shape.1 With an increasing incidence of plagiocephaly (asymmetric skull) this practice, with a modern slant, is re-emerging. A simple web search resulted in five “paediatric offices” offering such a service. If an Ancient Egyptian walked into clinic today with their child's head bound between two planks of wood, we would be informing social services.

Hi;

I got suckered in by a similar wiki article ages ago;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

which to my understanding is incorrect as no evidence yet exists for egyptian head binding.

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Hi;

I got suckered in by a similar wiki article ages ago;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

which to my understanding is incorrect as no evidence yet exists for egyptian head binding.

Ah, no, that's not wiki that I posted.

Birmingham Medical Journal.

Edited by Antilles

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