Little Fish Posted March 6, 2012 #326 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Is there any actual proof that these could do any of these things?yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted March 6, 2012 #327 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So there's proof that vaccines speed up the aging process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted March 6, 2012 #328 Share Posted March 6, 2012 yes I as well as everybody who is against your opinion on the matter would really appreciate it if you showed us some sort of scientific data to your conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 6, 2012 #329 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I as well as everybody who is against your opinion on the matter would really appreciate it if you showed us some sort of scientific data to your conclusions. if you look up the numbers you'll see male sperm counts have been dropping since 1940.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072?dopt=Abstract if you compare this increasing male sterility to the increasing quantity of vaccines since 1940, you'll learn the surprising fact that increasing the number of vaccines actually reduces sperm counts, so there is a strong connection between the number of vaccines you take and your sperm count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted March 7, 2012 #330 Share Posted March 7, 2012 if you look up the numbers you'll see male sperm counts have been dropping since 1940. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072?dopt=Abstract if you compare this increasing male sterility to the increasing quantity of vaccines since 1940, you'll learn the surprising fact that increasing the number of vaccines actually reduces sperm counts, so there is a strong connection between the number of vaccines you take and your sperm count. Do you know how many other things have happened in that time frame? This is cherry picking nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 7, 2012 #331 Share Posted March 7, 2012 if you compare this increasing male sterility to the increasing quantity of vaccines since 1940, you'll learn the surprising fact that increasing the number of vaccines actually reduces sperm counts, so there is a strong connection between the number of vaccines you take and your sperm count. Do you know how many other things have happened in that time frame? This is cherry picking nonsense. this is what I said "if you compare this increasing male sterility to the increasing quantity of vaccines since 1940, you'll learn the surprising fact that increasing the number of vaccines actually reduces sperm counts, so there is a strong connection between the number of vaccines you take and your sperm count." this is what bill gates said: "A surprising but critical fact we learned was that reducing the number of deaths actually reduces population growth. Chart 3 shows the strong connection between infant mortality rates and fertility rates" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted March 8, 2012 #332 Share Posted March 8, 2012 this is what I said "if you compare this increasing male sterility to the increasing quantity of vaccines since 1940, you'll learn the surprising fact that increasing the number of vaccines actually reduces sperm counts, so there is a strong connection between the number of vaccines you take and your sperm count." this is what bill gates said: "A surprising but critical fact we learned was that reducing the number of deaths actually reduces population growth. Chart 3 shows the strong connection between infant mortality rates and fertility rates" So you thought throwing a little more nonsense on to the last bit of nonsense would make it better? We have seen that quote before, it doesn't mean any more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 8, 2012 #333 Share Posted March 8, 2012 So you thought throwing a little more nonsense on to the last bit of nonsense would make it better? We have seen that quote before, it doesn't mean any more now. just demonstrating that bill gates is talking nonsense.why don't you pounce on bill gates like you pounced on me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted March 8, 2012 #334 Share Posted March 8, 2012 just demonstrating that bill gates is talking nonsense. why don't you pounce on bill gates like you pounced on me? Because what he said is true. Better public health and sanitation leads to lower birth rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 8, 2012 #335 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Because what he said is true. Better public health and sanitation leads to lower birth rates. So there's proof that vaccines lower the birth rates? can you show some sort of scientific data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted March 9, 2012 #336 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So there's proof that vaccines lower the birth rates? can you show some sort of scientific data? By all means or respect, but it is rather obvious, is it not? Better health leads to lower death rates, which again leads to lower birth rates. I mean, what is the big mystery in this? Do you think that people in poor countries in general get 10-12 kids or more because they want to or because they have to to take into account that only some of them will survive to feed them when they get old? Seriously? Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #337 Share Posted March 9, 2012 By all means or respect, but it is rather obvious, is it not? Better health leads to lower death rates, which again leads to lower birth rates. I mean, what is the big mystery in this? Do you think that people in poor countries in general get 10-12 kids or more because they want to or because they have to to take into account that only some of them will survive to feed them when they get old? Seriously? Cheers, Badeskov so you don't have proof or scientific data then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmars78 Posted March 9, 2012 #338 Share Posted March 9, 2012 so you don't have proof or scientific data then? You can start here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMelsWell Posted March 9, 2012 #339 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So if only you folks had ever met Gates or worked for him... you'd realize the man, while brilliant and rich, isn't capable of running a global eugenics conspiracy. LOL. He couldn't even get those of us who sat on the release team for Windows to do what he wanted. If I felt comfortable tellng the story, I would, but as someone who's met and worked for the man, I'm laughing my butt off at this conspiracy. Really, it's super amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 9, 2012 #340 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So if only you folks had ever met Gates or worked for him... you'd realize the man, while brilliant and rich, isn't capable of running a global eugenics conspiracy. LOL. He couldn't even get those of us who sat on the release team for Windows to do what he wanted. If I felt comfortable tellng the story, I would, but as someone who's met and worked for the man, I'm laughing my butt off at this conspiracy. Really, it's super amusing. I tend to give him a hard time - it's a UNIX thing - but it's tongue in cheek. Is he not planning to end world hunger? If that is true, he would be one of the greatest humanitarians in history I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 9, 2012 #341 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What the argument seems to basically come down to is that endlessly increasing population is a desirable thing, and any attempts to discourage this must, by definition, be an Evil thing. Why should this be the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #342 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You can start here. so nobody can find any evidence that reducing the infant mortality rate with vaccinations will reduce population growth.there are many things at play as a society develops that play a part in population declines, to assume that vaccinations are part of it is absurd. it is primarily industrialisation, economics, education, emancipation of women, contraception, opportunity. to state that one of the advances (vaccination) that is an offshoot of some of those things mentioned is a causal factor of another offshoot (declining population growth) is putting the cart before the horse. it is quite extraordinary how people correctly dismiss my little pseudoscience experiment and yet are unwilling to dismiss the same pseudoscience that bill gates is promoting. correlation does not mean causation, the reasons for declining population growth are well understood, declining population growth has about as much to do with growth in vaccinations as it has to do with growth in fridge ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #343 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What the argument seems to basically come down to is that endlessly increasing population is a desirable thing, and any attempts to discourage this must, by definition, be an Evil thing. Why should this be the case? asking a question about your own fabricated strawman argument is not addressing the issue.bill gates did not state "we hope vaccinations will discourage population growth" he said "vaccinations will reduce population growth by 15%" the reasons he gave were pseudoscience. how do you reduce population growth with vaccinations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 9, 2012 #344 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Thrre's no point trying to explain that reducing Population growth by 15% is not the same thing as reducing population by 15%. And i do wish people who have conspiracy theories to promote (whatever those theories might actually be, it's often far from clear) would stop using the phrase "strawman argument". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #345 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Thrre's no point trying to explain that reducing Population growth by 15% is not the same thing as reducing population by 15%.yep, absolutely no point whatsoever.since I asked - how do you reduce population growth with vaccinations? And i do wish people who have conspiracy theories to promote (whatever those theories might actually be, it's often far from clear) would stop using the phrase "strawman argument". I don't know how else to put it, other than how i did which was very clearly. I say one thing and you think I say another. I can't explain why that is. perhaps you need to increase your screen resolution, or maybe you have this conceptual belief in your mind that you are responding to rather than responding to the actual words I write and precisely mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted March 9, 2012 #346 Share Posted March 9, 2012 so nobody can find any evidence that reducing the infant mortality rate with vaccinations will reduce population growth. there are many things at play as a society develops that play a part in population declines, to assume that vaccinations are part of it is absurd. it is primarily industrialisation, economics, education, emancipation of women, contraception, opportunity. to state that one of the advances (vaccination) that is an offshoot of some of those things mentioned is a causal factor of another offshoot (declining population growth) is putting the cart before the horse. it is quite extraordinary how people correctly dismiss my little pseudoscience experiment and yet are unwilling to dismiss the same pseudoscience that bill gates is promoting. correlation does not mean causation, the reasons for declining population growth are well understood, declining population growth has about as much to do with growth in vaccinations as it has to do with growth in fridge ownership. Seriously, you do not understand how to read scientific data or are you being deliberately obstinate? It is a known fact that vaccines reduce infant mortality. It is a known fact that reduced infant mortality reduces the birth rates. I mean, how hard can it be? From Tmars78's excellent link (you should look at the scientific references in that link, by the way): It is a well known fact that developed countries benefit from vaccines and the subsequent low infant mortality and birthrates. Even though some European countries now have declining populations was it not for immigration. What is the big mystery in this? Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #347 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Seriously, you do not understand how to read scientific data or are you being deliberately obstinate?It is a known fact that vaccines reduce infant mortality. It is a known fact that reduced infant mortality reduces the birth rates. I am asking you to show scientific proof. you are using your premise to show your premise - circular reasoning. you're not answering the question. I mean, how hard can it be? From Tmars78's excellent link (you should look at the scientific references in that link, by the way): It is a well known fact that developed countries benefit from vaccines and the subsequent low infant mortality and birthrates. Even though some European countries now have declining populations was it not for immigration. What is the big mystery in this? Cheers, Badeskov again you are just asserting your premise when you are being asked to prove it.plot the declining sperm rates on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. plot the uptake of fridges on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. plot the vaccination rates on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. Edited March 9, 2012 by Little Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted March 9, 2012 #348 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I am asking you to show scientific proof. you are using your premise to show your premise - circular reasoning. you're not answering the question. again you are just asserting your premise when you are being asked to prove it. plot the declining sperm rates on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. plot the uptake of fridges on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. plot the vaccination rates on that graph, what would that tell you? precisely nothing. OK, this is apparently incredibly hard to comprehend, so lets take it in smaller bites, shall we? Do you acknowledge that lower infant mortality rates lead to lower birth rates (no matter the reason of the lower mortality rates)? Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fish Posted March 9, 2012 #349 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) OK, this is apparently incredibly hard to comprehend, so lets take it in smaller bites, shall we? Do you acknowledge that lower infant mortality rates lead to lower birth rates (no matter the reason of the lower mortality rates)? Cheers, Badeskov you are being asked to show scientific evidence that lowering infant mortality rate with vaccines will reduce population growth, merely repeating and framing your premise in the form of a question is not proof of your premise. if you cannot do that, which you clearly cannot, then what are you doing? admit defeat and move on. next! Edited March 9, 2012 by Little Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted March 9, 2012 #350 Share Posted March 9, 2012 you are being asked to show scientific evidence that lowering infant mortality rate with vaccines will reduce population growth, merely repeating and framing your premise in the form of a question is not proof of your premise. if you cannot do that, which you clearly cannot, then what are you doing? admit defeat and move on. next! Ok, you do clearly not understand even your own question, or simply do not want to see your belief overthrown. I ask again, this very very simple question: do you acknowledge that lower infant mortality rates lead to lower birth rates? We will get to the vaccines later, but this obviously has to be taken in baby steps with you, and even those seem pretty hard for you. Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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