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The Puzzler

Trojans were Basques?

641 posts in this topic

Puzz, you do realize that 90 percent of this thread is all about wordfk?

It's not about etymology or linguistics at all, it's about playing domino with words and pieces of words.

The word, no, the 2 letters this whole thread is based upon are -B- and -R-, or combined, -BR-.

I'll bet I can find an Inuit word with -BR- in it. Or even an Australian Aboriginal word.

Maybe the Antarctican penguins make a sound that has -BR- in it, jeesh.

OK, whatever. The bor/bur was for GGG's benefit really.

You have obviously missed the point of the connecting meanings in the etymologies that transfer through.

Linguistics is wordfk and that's all it is, no more, no less.

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"Leading writers from the theological age--predominately in the late 18th, and early 19th centuries--put forth claims that Basque was the original language spoken prior to the linguistic fragmentation resulting from the Tower of Babel."

I am afraid you will start quoting from Edo Nyland's site next...

Just sayin' ... to reinforce the fact, it's not such a crazy idea, people in early Mesopotamia were speaking a form of Basque, no matter what you might think.

I'll give you one more before bed because I can't help myself.

Urartu = Basque urruti = far (away) The name Urartu comes from Assyrian sources: the Assyrian King Shalmaneser I (1263–1234 BC) recorded a campaign in which he subdued the entire territory of "Uruatri".

Scholars believe that Urartu is an Akkadian variation of Ararat of the Old Testament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urartu

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Posted (edited)

OK, whatever. The bor/bur was for GGG's benefit really.

You have obviously missed the point of the connecting meanings in the etymologies that transfer through.

Linguistics is wordfk and that's all it is, no more, no less.

No, linguistics is not wordfk, it is a science about how language is bound to change across the ages.

But you know how to play Scrabble, and that's why you think about linguistics the way you do.

Have you ever studied linguistics? Or even read (online) books about it? I did.

You must have thought, "What they can do, I can do better"... with nothing else to back that up with whatever you were able to Google up.

Puzz, if you had studied linguistics at some university, I would think differently about your attitude.

But you didn't.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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No, linguistics is not wordfk, it is a science about how language is bound to change across the ages.

But you know how to play Scrabble, and that's why you think about linguistics the way you do.

Have you ever studied linguistics? Or even read (online) books about it? I did.

You must have thought, "What they can do, I can do better"... with nothing else to back that up with but whatever you were able to Google up.

Puzz, if you had studied linguistics at some university, I would think differently about your attitude.

But you didn't.

Some writers have gone even further, e.g. Bengtson and Ruhlen, proposing Basque as a major element in a Proto-World language. This extraordinary hypothesis is based of the notion that remnants of an ancestral language of all mankind are still discernable in languages of today, and the comparative analysis of cognate lexical items (e.g. bone, dog, hair), all of which bear a resemblance to Basque words with related meanings.

Maybe you missed this that I posted.

:sleepy:

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Posted (edited)

Both Hurrian and Sumerian are ergative, as are some modern languages such as Basque.

http://homepages.math.uic.edu/~ronan/ergativity

I'd swear I was looking at two different languages separated by several thousands of years in time, but what do I know. [via Laputan Logic] An adjunct professor of Basque Studies in Nevada is quoted in a newspaper article saying the usual, strange things about Basque, a European language isolate.

Gene research is helping clear up the mystery of the origins of the Basque people, a culture that apparently came out of East Africa 50,000 years ago and passed through the Middle East on the way to Western Europe, a University of Nevada researcher says.

That's one of the reasons when reviewing documents written in the ancient Sumerian language, "you would swear you are reading Basque," said Joxe Mallea-Olaetxe, adjunct professor for the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/528379/1/

Some scholars have suggested a macrofamily of languages that includes Basque, Sumerian, and Sino-Caucasian.

http://www.ncrhi.net/mission.html

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

Some writers have gone even further, e.g. Bengtson and Ruhlen, proposing Basque as a major element in a Proto-World language. This extraordinary hypothesis is based of the notion that remnants of an ancestral language of all mankind are still discernable in languages of today, and the comparative analysis of cognate lexical items (e.g. bone, dog, hair), all of which bear a resemblance to Basque words with related meanings.

Maybe you missed this that I posted.

:sleepy:

Yep, that's from the link I posted.

Here, some more from that link:

A prerequisite of the theory is that the Indo-Europeans arrived in a linguistically homogenous Europe, something many researchers find hard to swallow.

(..)

This extraordinary hypothesis is based of the notion that remnants of an ancestral language of all mankind are still discernable in languages of today, and the comparative analysis of cognate lexical items (e.g. bone, dog, hair), all of which bear a resemblance to Basque words with related meanings. The theory has found little favor with the linguistic establishment.

http://folk.uio.no/paltr/basque_mystery.html

I find something, I post about it, then I think about it for a little bit more, and then I have doubts about it, despite the fact I liked it just before.

You should do that more often, heh.

No offense, Puzz, I like what you are doing, but we are just not on the same track.

I post about whatever I may find. If it contradicts what I was convinced of earlier, bad luck for me.

This is a process of finding out about the truth.

I have NO agenda at all.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Yep, that's from the link I posted.

Here, some more from that link:

A prerequisite of the theory is that the Indo-Europeans arrived in a linguistically homogenous Europe, something many researchers find hard to swallow.

(..)

This extraordinary hypothesis is based of the notion that remnants of an ancestral language of all mankind are still discernable in languages of today, and the comparative analysis of cognate lexical items (e.g. bone, dog, hair), all of which bear a resemblance to Basque words with related meanings. The theory has found little favor with the linguistic establishment.

http://folk.uio.no/paltr/basque_mystery.html

I find something, I post about it, then I think about it for a little bit more, and then I have doubts about it, despite the fact I liked it just before.

You should do that more often, heh.

No offense, Puzz, I like what you are doing, but we are just not on the same track.

I post about whatever I may find. If it contradicts what I was convinced of earlier, bad luck for me.

This is a process of finding out about the truth.

I have NO agenda at all.

.

I actually reinforced it by adding these bits:

Both Hurrian and Sumerian are ergative, as are some modern languages such as Basque.

http://homepages.mat...onan/ergativity

That's one of the reasons when reviewing documents written in the ancient Sumerian language, "you would swear you are reading Basque," said Joxe Mallea-Olaetxe, adjunct professor for the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://s6.zetaboards...topic/528379/1/

Some scholars have suggested a macrofamily of languages that includes Basque, Sumerian, and Sino-Caucasian.

http://www.ncrhi.net/mission.html

Of course linguists would find little favour with it, they'd have to redo 100 years of work, which they got wrong. Bed for me.

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Posted (edited)

I actually reinforced it by adding these bits:

Both Hurrian and Sumerian are ergative, as are some modern languages such as Basque.

http://homepages.mat...onan/ergativity

That's one of the reasons when reviewing documents written in the ancient Sumerian language, "you would swear you are reading Basque," said Joxe Mallea-Olaetxe, adjunct professor for the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://s6.zetaboards...topic/528379/1/

Some scholars have suggested a macrofamily of languages that includes Basque, Sumerian, and Sino-Caucasian.

http://www.ncrhi.net/mission.html

Of course linguists would find little favour with it, they'd have to redo 100 years of work, which they got wrong. Bed for me.

How many years of linguistic research did YOU "redo" ?

Not one single year, and I am convinced of that.

Fringe sites have 'all the answers', yeah.

And that is because they never took the trouble to study the subject they have crazy ideas about.

It's much more easy to dream of possibilities and fantasies than to lit up a couple of candles late at night, and STUDY the fkg subject by reading BOOKS.

(For the youngsters: books are objects made out of a bound collection of papers with a lot of black ink scriblings upon it. Idiots that you are.)

,

Edited by Abramelin

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I'll answer with a nice round up of who the Basque people are to me...

There is no shortage of theories that seek to explain the origins of the Basques, western Europe's mystery people. They range from the incredulous (that Basques are the survivors the lost people of Atlantis, the fabled land that sunk into the sea) the mythical (Basques are descendants of Aitor, the first Basque man) the pre-historic (Basques descended from the Stone Age, proponents pointing to Basque words for tools that all incorporate stone) the expansive (purported links with other distant languages) to the probable (Basques are descendants of the Iberians, people who once inhabited Spain).

Outside the city of Gernika, one can find the caves of Santimamine which contains the remnants of a culture 20,000 years ago. Other archeological finds suggest that the present Basque homeland contained human communities as long as 70,000 years ago. What is unknown, however, is if they were ancestors of the Basques. The debate is whether the Basque populace and culture developed--in situ--there in the Pyrenees or if they migrated into their present homeland. Those skeptical of the tens of thousands of years of a Basque presence place their arrival sometime between 5,000 and 3,000 B.C. Nonetheless, even these conservative estimates place the Basques in western Europe long before the migrations of the second millennium B.C. that established the ethnic composition of modern Europe. Therefore, what is certain is that the Basques are the oldest indigenous people of western Europe.

Where are they from? Who are the Basques? Both are questions that many Basques are asked. Neither is easy to answer but there has been no shortage of efforts.

Philippe Veyrin, a French student of Basque origins, grouped explanations into three broad categories: theological, the metaphysical and scientific theories. Leading writers from the theological age--predominately in the late 18th, and early 19th centuries--put forth claims that Basque was the original language spoken prior to the linguistic fragmentation resulting from the Tower of Babel. (The biblical story in which God thwarts the human effort to build a high tower to reach the heavens. To disrupt the project, God imposed a multitude of languages on the workers so that they could not communicate with one another). One attempt to substantiate this claim was that of the Abbe Diharce de Bidassouet who based his claim on some inventive etymological work. Gipuzkoa (one of the seven provinces) represented Gu-iz-puzk-ko-ak, or literally those whose language was broken. Meanwhile, Manuel de Larramendi, who wrote the first Basque grammar book, was not as assertive and instead assigned Basque a place among the seventy-five languages that followed the collapse of the Tower of Babel. Finally, another commentator, Abbe Dominique Lahetjuzan claimed that Basque proved the story of Genesis. Apparantely the originality of Basque verified the divinity of Genesis. Unfortunately, these and other explanations offered little solid evidence for their claims and instead relied on questionable etymologies and assumptions. But for a time, these claims were taken seriously. The Gipuzkoan priest Erroa petitioned the Chapter of the Cathedral of Pamplona, which after months of deliberations, accepted his theory that Basque was the language spoken in the Garden of Eden.

---- So do you know anything more now after reading this article? Unfortunately, there are very few certainties when discussing the Basques. They remain Europe's "mystery people" because the origin of the people and their language remains lost to us. While there remain more questions than answers, what is certain is that the Basques and Euskara are western Europe's oldest indigenous people and language.

http://www.nabasque.org/NABO/Origins.htm

From the looks of it your "nice round up" is a rather verbose way of saying what I've already told you, without actually getting into any in-depth details. None of which tells me anything more than I already knew.

cormac

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From the looks of it your "nice round up" is a rather verbose way of saying what I've already told you, without actually getting into any in-depth details. None of which tells me anything more than I already knew.

cormac

lol I know, it was saying about how much we don't actually know. A kind of round up way of saying, their is many things open to interpretation... ;)

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How many years of linguistic research did YOU "redo" ?

Not one single year, and I am convinced of that.

Fringe sites have 'all the answers', yeah.

And that is because they never took the trouble to study the subject they have crazy ideas about.

It's much more easy to dream of possibilities and fantasies than to lit up a couple of candles late at night, and STUDY the fkg subject by reading BOOKS.

(For the youngsters: books are objects made out of a bound collection of papers with a lot of black ink scriblings upon it. Idiots that you are.)

,

Why don't you add something of worth to the topic Abe, I've heard all this type of blather from you before, I'm not here to be judged, add something that actually disproves anything I've said - then I might take YOU seriously. B)

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If we consider how much R1b covers Europe - and then state that this came into Europe and therefore covered those areas quite significantly - then we state that these people carried the IE language in - the only logical conclusion to make, is that the areas of R1b/R1a DID NOT SPEAK INDO-EUROPEAN prior to the entrance of R1b and R1a.

So, what were they speaking? Many people say they spoke a Basque language - we know the Aquitani are not Gauls/Celts and nor did they speak Celtic - they spoke Basque.

No matter what you all think, this idea is not that crazy - the influence of R1b and IE language should not be under-estimated of what it took over and superimposed itself onto.

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If we consider how much R1b covers Europe - and then state that this came into Europe and therefore covered those areas quite significantly - then we state that these people carried the IE language in - the only logical conclusion to make, is that the areas of R1b/R1a DID NOT SPEAK INDO-EUROPEAN prior to the entrance of R1b and R1a.

This is inaccurately worded IMO, as mtDNA Haplogroups U5 and V as well as Y Chromosome DNA Haplogroups I and E1b1b1a1b are all known to predate the arrival of R1a and R1b into Europe. But I got the gist of what you were trying to say.

Many people say they spoke a Basque language...

If anything, they were probably speaking something that 'may' have been ancestral to Basque. It's also possible that there were other related languages at the time which are no longer extant. This should not, however, be interpreted as "they were speaking Basque".

...the influence of R1b and IE language should not be under-estimated of what it took over and superimposed itself onto.

The influence isn't being under-estimated, but one can't fill in the gaps with evidence that doesn't exist.

cormac

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Posted (edited)

This is inaccurately worded IMO, as mtDNA Haplogroups U5 and V as well as Y Chromosome DNA Haplogroups I and E1b1b1a1b are all known to predate the arrival of R1a and R1b into Europe. But I got the gist of what you were trying to say.

If anything, they were probably speaking something that 'may' have been ancestral to Basque. It's also possible that there were other related languages at the time which are no longer extant. This should not, however, be interpreted as "they were speaking Basque".

The influence isn't being under-estimated, but one can't fill in the gaps with evidence that doesn't exist.

cormac

OK, fair enough on all counts but glad you got the gist of what I was saying.

Number 2 got me thinking and I have now decided that rather than Basque, I'm seeing a more Aquitanian influence in the people, since they are recorded as speaking Basque, they may actually hold a better key to my understanding of this.

Just a general question with no agenda...what haplogroup would you associate with the Maglalenian people? E of some kind? H(mtDNA)?

Among all these clades, the subhaplogroups H1 and H3 have been subject to a more detailed study and would be associated to the Magdalenian expansion from SW Europe c. 13,000 years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(mtDNA)

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

Just a general question with no agenda...what haplogroup would you associate with the Maglalenian people? E of some kind? H(mtDNA)?

My guess, based on what I understand of the timeframe and the genetics involved, would be either the parent haplogroup "H" itself or possibly "H1". Just keep in mind though that that far back in time we are NOT talking about Basque in any meaningful usage of the term or any association therewith.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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Posted (edited)

My guess, based on what I understand of the timeframe and the genetics involved, would be either the parent haplogroup "H" itself or possibly "H1". Just keep in mind though that that far back in time we are NOT talking about Basque in any meaningful usage of the term or any association therewith.

cormac

I will take it on board. I'm working on a haplogroup model to follow.

Here's something interesting:

The religious significance of the animals is lost on most analysts. Plato, as usual, provides the pertinent clue: the Atlantics worshipped Poseidon and regarded his sacred animal the horse with great awe. A revisionist look at the horses in cave paintings clarifies that the lines on horses' heads represent harnesses, not natural contours or anatomical details, proving that the Magdalenians or Atlantic peoples had tamed the horse by 12,000 BCE, some eight thousand years before the date assigned to the domestication of the horse in the conventional model.

http://dnaconsultants.com/_blog/DNA_Consultants_Blog/tag/Plato/

These symbols below in the above line have been found in the Magdalenian sites - I pointed out one before, based on the position of it above a horse in the cave, I think it means horse and may have become H, lol - OK moving on, it's the 3rd symbol, top line - but it shows how they compare to Greek letters, many, many years would have passed between them...

paleolithic%20writing.jpg

Upper Paleolithic writing recovered from Magdalenian cave sites (top) compared to characters in three early written languages: Indus valley signs, © Greek and (d) Runic. Settegast (p. 28) after Forbes and Crowder, 1979.

Hey, how about this - I said before it would not be unreasonable to suggest Atlantic people would travel to Gobekli Tepe.

Addendum: One of the offshoots of Atlantic Culture according to Plato Prehistorian was the Çatal Hüyük civilization that flourished in Anatolia from 6200-5300 BCE. Only 2-3 % of the 32 acre site has been excavated, but what has come to light so far includes amazing cyclopean walls, refined wall paintings and peculiar religious practices such as a vulture-bull rite, leopard shrine and Mistress of the Animals cult reminiscent of Venus figurines. It is conceivable that Atlantic Culture itself was spurred to life originally by admixture of Europeans with Neanderthals, since there are numerous signs of Neanderthal culture in archeological remains. Significantly, the Venus figures once associated with Gravettian Culture now appear to have had their origins with Neanderthals, who occupied Europe for 350,000 years before H. sapiens sapiens. Venus figurines were worn about the neck by Neanderthals, as proved in several excavations in Spain and elsewhere. In 1961, archeologists unearthed the skull of a Neanderthal man in the ancient site of Chalcedon on the east side of the Bosporus in Asia Minor, although the find is seldom mentioned today.

http://dnaconsultants.com/_blog/DNA_Consultants_Blog/tag/Plato/

Edited by The Puzzler

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On the subject of horses:

1) If you're going to use DNA Consultants as a reference you might as well be using toilet paper since they have similar purposes.

2) A revisionist look at horses is what someone WANTS to believe, not what any evidence suggests. The earliest actual evidence of domesticated horses is c.3500 BC, from Kazakhstan.

In regards to your ADDENDUM:

One of the offshoots of Atlantic Culture according to Plato Prehistorian was the Çatal Hüyük civilization...

Plato never mentioned Catal Huyuk and it dates to c.7500 BC. It also shows no evidence of being a civilization by any paleoanthropological definition of the word. Whomever wrote this is taking gross liberties with the facts IMO.

It is conceivable that Atlantic Culture itself was spurred to life originally by admixture of Europeans with Neanderthals, since there are numerous signs of Neanderthal culture in archeological remains.

One has to wonder how this could be true since by the time modern human (HSS) cultures were starting Neanderthals were long gone from the scene and in many cases modern humans took over Neanderthal sites well after the Neanderthals went extinct.

Significantly, the Venus figures once associated with Gravettian Culture now appear to have had their origins with Neanderthals, who occupied Europe for 350,000 years before H. sapiens sapiens.

I'd like to see a valid citation for this as the earliest on record, the Venus of Hohle Fels, dates to c.35,000-40,000 BC and is associated with Homo sapiens.

cormac

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Here's an interesting chart that gives some idea of haplogroups for these ancient peoples:

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Data/European_genes_table_by_location.htm

I'm hoping this isn't a one-off, but congratulations on finding a decent genetics related site. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. It just took long enough.

cormac

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OK lol, I'll check some of the statements out some more.

I'm hoping this isn't a one-off, but congratulations on finding a decent genetics related site. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. It just took long enough.

cormac

I'm still new to the 'sorting out the dodgy dna sites' caper yet, goodo.

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Posted (edited)

I have printed out the whole 27 pages from the Geographic Spread and ethnic origins of European Haplogroups from Eupedia too and study that alot. Here's some other info from Eupedia.

Aurignacian Culture (47,000 to 28,000 ybp ; all ice-free Europe)

Krause et al. (2010) tested a complete mtDNA sequence from a 30,000-year-old eary modern human from the Kostenki 14 site on the Don River in southern Russia, and identified the haplogroup as U2.

Gravettian Culture (28,000 to 22,000 ybp ; all ice-free Europe)

Caramelli et al. (2003) reported the analysis of two mtDNA samples from the Paglicci Cave (26,000 ybp) in the region of Apulia, Italy. One belonged to haplogroup N and the other to HV or R0.

Solutrean Culture (22,000 to 17,000 ybp ; Western Europe)

Domíngue Fernández (2005 - doctoral thesis) identified one haplogroup U and one haplogroup R0 in remains from the Nerja caves (province of Málaga) in Spain, dated 20,000 to 17,000 ybp.

Magdalenian Culture (17,000 to 9,000 ybp ; Western Europe)

Bramanti et al. (2009) found two (probably related) individuals belonging to haplogroup U from the Hohle Fels cave in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. Age estimated at 15,400 ybp.

Tardenoisian, Azilian and related cultures (11,500 to 7,500 ybp ; West & Southwest Europe)

Chandler et al. (2005) recovered 8 mtDNA sequences from several Mesolithic sites from the Sado estuary in central Portugal, and identified 4 individuals belonging haplogroup H (including one H1b and one possible H7), 2 to haplogroup U (U4 and U5b1c2) and 2 to haplogroup N (probably N1b and N5). Their age range from 9,500 to 7,500 ybp.

Delsate et al. (2009) analysed the mtDNA of the Reuland-Loschbour man (8,000 ybp) from Luxembourg and assigned him to haplogroup U5a.

In 1996, Bryan Sykes of Oxford University first sequenced the mitochondrial DNA of the 9,000-year-old Cheddar Man from Gough's Cave in Cheddar (Somerset), England, and assigned him to haplogroup U5.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancient_european_dna.shtml

Edited by The Puzzler

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More on that same article, because I think it's a good reference:

Maglemosian-Kongemose, Kunda-Narva, Neman-Zedmar and related cultures (11,500 to 5,000 ybp ; North & Northeast Europe)

Bramanti et al. (2009) tested Mesolithic remains from several locations across Europe, and found one haplogroup U5a (9,800 ybp) at the Chekalino site in the Volga-Ural region of Russia, one U5a1 (10,000 to 8,000 ybp) at the Lebyazhinka site in the Middle Volga region of Russia, one U5b2 (9,200 ybp) at the Falkensteiner Höhle cave in Baden-Württemberg, Germany, one U5a2a and one U5b2 (both 8,700 ybp) at the Hohlenstein-Stadel cave, in Baden-Württemberg, Germany, one U4 (8,850 ybp) at Bad Dürrenberg in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany, one U4 and one U5b2 (both 8350 ybp) from the Kunda Culture in Lithuania, two U5b2 (both 6450 ybp) from the Narva Culture in Lithuania, two U5b1 (6,000 to 5,000 ybp) from the Zedmar Culture in Poland and one U5a (4,250 ybp) from the Drestwo site in northeast Poland.

Pitted Ware Culture (5,200 to 4,000 ybp ; Scandinavia)

Malmström et al. (2009) tested 19 ancient mtDNA sequences from Gotland, Sweden. They identified 8 individuals belonging haplogroup U4, 6 to haplogroup U5 (including three U5a), one to haplogroup V, one to haplogroup K, one to haplogroup T. No haplogroup could be attributed for the last 2 samples based on the HVR test alone (16311C).

Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş Culture and Linear Pottery Culture (c. 8,000 to 6,500 ybp ; Central & Southeast Europe)

Haak et al. (2005) and Haak et al. (2010) sequenced the mitochondrial DNA from several LBK sites in Germany and one in Austria dating from 5500 BCE to 4900 BCE. Out of the 38 mtDNA lineages recovered there were six haplogroup N (one N1a, one N1a1a, two N1a1a1, two N1a1a2, and one N1a1b), two U (U3 and U5a1a), seven K, four J, ten T (including three T2), three HV, eight H, two V, and two W. The Y-chromosomal DNA of three samples was also successfully retrieved and assigned to haplogroup F* (2 samples) and G2a3.

Bramanti et al. (2008) tested the mtDNA from the LBK site of Vedrovice (5300 BCE) in the Czech Republic. Two samples were found to belong to haplogroup K, one to J1c, two to T2 and the last one to H.

Guba et al. (2011) analysed the mtDNA of 11 Neolithic skeletons from Hungary. Among the five specimens from the Kőrös culture (5500 BCE), two carried the mutations of haplogroup N9a and one of C5. Another one had a series of mutations not seen in any haplogroup to this day (16235G, 16261T, 16291T, 16293G, 16304C). The last one didn't have any mutation from the CRS in the HVS-I region and is therefore undetermined. Out of the six specimens from the LBK-related Alföld Culture (5250-5000 BCE) three belonged to haplogroup N (N1a, N1a1b, N9a), and one to haplogroup D1 or G1a1. The two others were undetermined (CRS and 16324C mutation reported as M/R24).

Cucuteni-Trypillian Culture (c. 7,500 to 4,750 ybp ; Romania, Moldova, Ukraine)

Nikitin et al. (2010) studied the remains of the Eneolithic site of Verteba Cave (3600-2500 BCE) in Western Ukraine. They retrieved the mtDNA of seven individuals, which were assigned to haplogroup pre-HV, HV or V (2 samples), H (2 samples), J and T4.

Cardium Pottery Culture (c. 8,400 to 4,700 ybp ; Mediterranean Europe)

Chandler et al. (2005) sequenced the mtDNA of four Neolithic skeletons from the Impressed Ware Culture of Portugal (5500-4750 BCE), and found two members of haplogroup U (U and U5), one of H and one of V.

Lacan et al. (2011) tested 29 skeletons from a 5,000-year-old site in Treilles, Languedoc, France. Twenty paternal lineages (Y-DNA) were identified as G2a, while the two others belonged to haplogroup I2a. The maternal lineages (mtDNA) comprised six haplogroup U (including four U5 and one U5b1c), two K1a, six J1, two T2b, two HV0, six H (three H1 and three H3), one V, and four X2. The two I2a men belonged to mtDNA haplogroup H1 and H3.

Lacan et al. (2011 bis) tested 7 skeletons from a 7,000-year-old Neolithic site from the Avellaner Cave in Cogolls, Catalonia, Spain. Six paternal lineages (Y-DNA) were identified including five G2a and one E1b1b1a1b (E-V13). There were three mtDNA haplogroup K1a, two T2b, one H3, and one U5.

The team of Fernández et al. (2006) and Gamba et al. (2008) analysed the mitochondrial HVR-I in 37 bone and teeth samples from 17 archaeological sites located around Castellón de la Plana, Valencia, Spain. Most of the results were inconclusive though. Out of the 12 mtDNA sequences from the Chalcolithic period that were retrieved, four were reported as haplogroup L3, four as H (including three CRS, which could be non-results), two to R0, HV or H, one to V, and one to D.

Gamba et al. (2011) identified the mtDNA of 10 Early Neolithic (5000-5500 BCE) samples from the sites of Can Sadurni and Chaves and three Late Early Neolithic (4250-3700 BCE) from Sant Pau del Camp, all around Barcelona, Spain. The coding region was also tested to confirm the haplogroups. The results included haplogroups N* (4 samples), H (4 samples including one H20), U5 (1 sample), K (3 samples) and X1 (1 sample).

Atlantic Megalithic Culture (c. 7,000 to 4,000 ybp ; Western Europe)

Deguilloux et al. (2010) examined skeletons from the Péré tumulus, a megalithic long mound (4200 BCE) in Brittany, and retrieved the mtDNA of three individuals. They belonged to haplogroup N1a, U5b and X2.

Sampietro et al. (2007) analysed the HVRI mitochondrial DNA sequences of 11 Neolithic remains from the Cami de Can Grau site (3500 BCE) in Granollers, Catalonia, Spain. Four skeletons belonged to haplogroup H (including three CRS, which could be non-results), two to J, two to T2, one to U4, one to I1 and one to W1.

In a study focusing mostly on the site of Tell Halula in Syria, Fernández et al. (2008) also tested two skeletons from the Nerja caves near Málaga, Andalusia, Spain. The first individual (3875 BCE) carried the mutations 16126C 16264T 16270T 16278T 16293G 16311C, and the second 16129A, 16264T, 16270T, 16278T, 16293G, 16311C. Both sequences could correspond either to haplogroup H11a (typical of Central Europe) or more probably L1b1 (found in the Canaries and Northwest Africa).

In one pioneering ancient DNA study N. Izagirre and C. de la Rua (1999) of the University of the Basque Country, analysed the mtDNA variations in 121 dental samples from four Basque prehistoric sites. Among them, 61 samples from the late Neolithic site of San Juan Ante Portam Latinam (3300-3042 BCE) in Araba were found to belong to haplogroups H (23 samples), J (10 samples), U (11 samples), K (14 samples) and T or X (3 samples). The site of Pico Ramos (2790-2100 BCE) in Bizkaia yielded 24 results including haplogroups H (9 samples), J (4 samples), U (3 samples), K (4 samples) and T or X (4 samples). The site of Longar (2580-2450 BCE) in Nafarroa had 27 individuals H (11 samples), U (4 samples), K (6 samples), T or X (4 samples) and two other unidentified haplogroups. Finally, the site of Tres Montes in Navarra (2130 BCE) possessed 3 samples that appeared to belong to haplogroup L2 and two others that were undetermined (16224C and 16126C+16311C). The authors noted the conspicuous absence of haplogroup V, now present at a relatively high frequency among the Basques (6.5%).

Fernández et al. (2005) tested the mtDNA of remains from the Abauntz site (2240 BCE) in Navarra. All three samples retrieved were inconclusive regarding the mitochondrial haplogroup. One sample was CRS (no mutation found). Another had 16126C+16311C, which would be R0a, HV0a or a subclade of H, among many other possibilities. The last one (16256T) could be H1x, H14 or even U5a.

Funnelbeaker Culture (c. 6,000 to 4,700 ybp ; Northern Europe)

Malmström et al. (2009) tested three mtDNA sequences from a megalithic site (3500-2500 BCE) in Gökhem, Sweden. They identified haplogroups H, J and T.

Bramanti et al. (2009) tested seven skeletal materials from Ostorf (3200-3000 BCE) in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany, and identified the haplogroups as U5 (3 samples including one U5a), K and T2e (2 samples) and J.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancient_european_dna.shtml

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Corded Ware (Battle-axe) Culture (c. 4,900 to 4,300 ybp ; North and Northeast Europe)

Haak et al. (2008) extracted the mitochondrial DNA of 7 skeletal materials from a grave in Eulau (2,600 BCE). The remains belonged to mitochondrial haplogroups H, U5b, K1a2 and K1b (2 samples), I and X2. The Y-chromosomal DNA of two of the men was successfully extracted and found to belong to haplogroup R1a1.

Western European Bronze Age (c. 4,500 to 2,800 ybp ; Western Europe)

Kerri Brown of the University of Manchester retrieved the DNA from various bones of two Bronze Age skeletons from the Hebrides in Scotland, known as the Cladh Hallan mummies (1500 BCE). She explained that the mummies were made of body parts from several different people, arranged to look like one person. The mitochondrial DNA retrieved was reported on TV as H, U or U5, and probably T1.

N. Izagirre and C. de la Rúa (1999) tested 6 Bronze-age mtDNA from the Basque site of Urratxa (circa 1450 BCE) in Bizkaia, Spain. They found two specimens belonging to haplogroups H, two to J and two to U.

Simon et al. (2011) retrieved the DNA from eight individuals in collective burials (circa 1200 BCE) at the Montanissell Cave in the Catalan pre-Pyrenees, Spain. The coding region was tested for two CRS results that turned out to be haplogroups U and J. They managed to assign four individuals to haplogroup J (three or all four probably J1c), two to haplogroup U (including one U5a1c), one to haplogroup K and the last one to haplogroup HV0 or V.

Urnfield Culture (c. 3,300 to 2,750 ybp ; Central Europe)

Felix Schilz (2006), of the University of Göttingen, extracted the DNA of 34 skeletons from the Lichtenstein Cave (1,000 BCE) in the Harz mountains of central Germany. Using short tamdem repeats (STR) variances, 11 male individuals were assigned to Y-DNA haplogroup I2b2, two to haplogroup R1a and the last one to R1b. On the maternal side, 16 samples belonged to mitochondrial haplogroups H, 5 to haplogroup J (including one J1b1), 5 to haplogroup T2, 8 to haplogroup U (including five U5b and one possible U2).

Nordic Bronze Age (c. 3,700 to 2,500 ybp ; Scandinavia)

Melchior et al. (2010) recovered the mtDNA of a skeleton from Bredtoftegård site (circa 1400 BCE) in Denmark. He was identified as a member of haplogroups U4.

Balkanic Bronze Age (c. 4,500 to 3,200 ybp ; Southeast Europe)

Cardos et al. (2004) analysed the mitochondrial DNA from 5 Bronze-age individuals from Southeast Romania. Only a few HVR-1 mutations were successfully identified, which is not enough to determine unambiguously their haplogroups. The first specimen had the mutation 16129C. Assuming that no other HVR-1 mutation is missing due to incomplete sequencing or damaged DNA, this would fit haplogroup H17. The second individual had the mutations 16186T, 16189C and 16299T, which could be either H1a or H39 with two private mutations. The next person carried mutation 16129A and 16223T, which could also be haplogroup H1j or H17 with a private mutation, or even HV4a2 with 16221 missing. The fourth sample had only 16145A, which defines H22 with 16227 (it could therefore be "pre-H22"). The last sample had the common 16311C mutation, which if it is the only difference from the CRS would correspond to H2b, but is also found in subclades of H3, H6, H11, H13, and all subclades from HV6 to HV11. In conclusion, if all the HVR region was thoroughly tested and didn't miss any mutation (a big 'if'), then all the samples probably belonged to various subclades of H. However missing several mutations, they could belong to almost anything.

Mycenaean Greece (c. 3,900 to 3,100 ybp ; Greece)

Bouwman et al. (2008) tested the mitochondrial DNA of 22 skeletons from Grave Circle B at Mycenae (1,500 BCE). They only managed to identify 4 sequences, which belonged to haplogroups H (CRS), U5a1a, K (2 samples, probably brother and sister).

Nuragic civilisation (c. 3,800 to 1,850 ybp ; Sardinia)

The team of Caramelli et al. (2007) and Ghirotto et al. (2010) tested 23 HVR-1 mtDNA sequences from Bronze Age Sardinia (ranging from 1430 to 930 BCE) to compare them to modern Sardinian sequences. They found 11 ancient samples belonging probably to haplogroup H (including 6 CRS, which could ne non-result), one HV0 (reported as V), two U2 (or possibly H1a3), one J, three samples with the mutation 16129C that can correspond to H1j, H17 or possibly even U, and two samples with the mutation 16223T that do not permit to assign a haplogroup unambiguously.

Srubna culture, Novocherkassk culture and Cimmerian civilisation (c. 3,800 to 2,450 ybp ; Pontic Steppe)

Nikitin et al. (2011) tested the mtDNA of remains from the Verteba Cave in central Ukraine. The first sample (circa 700 BCE) was attributed to haplogroup U5a1a. The second one (circa 750 BCE) matched the mutations for haplogroup H5a.

I'll stop there, I wanted to include the Mycenaeans, the next part is the Iron Age where H seems to dominate. http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancient_european_dna.shtml

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burin

A burin is a tool for engraving.

In one pioneering ancient DNA study N. Izagirre and C. de la Rua (1999) of the University of the Basque Country, analysed the mtDNA variations in 121 dental samples from four Basque prehistoric sites. Among them, 61 samples from the late Neolithic site of San Juan Ante Portam Latinam (3300-3042 BCE) in Araba were found to belong to haplogroups H (23 samples), J (10 samples), U (11 samples), K (14 samples) and T or X (3 samples). The site of Pico Ramos (2790-2100 BCE) in Bizkaia yielded 24 results including haplogroups H (9 samples), J (4 samples), U (3 samples), K (4 samples) and T or X (4 samples). The site of Longar (2580-2450 BCE) in Nafarroa had 27 individuals H (11 samples), U (4 samples), K (6 samples), T or X (4 samples) and two other unidentified haplogroups. Finally, the site of Tres Montes in Navarra (2130 BCE) possessed 3 samples that appeared to belong to haplogroup L2 and two others that were undetermined (16224C and 16126C+16311C). The authors noted the conspicuous absence of haplogroup V, now present at a relatively high frequency among the Basques (6.5%).

H is very dominant in Western Europe c. 3300BC-2450BC in these above samples and would have spread into Europe around 20 - 25,000 years ago. The older samples contain no V. It's possible the arrival of H co-incided with the arrival of the Gravettian Culture.

Several independent studies conclude that haplogroup H probably evolved in West Asia c. 30,000 years ago. It was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago, and spread with population of the southwest of the continent.[3][4] Its arrival was roughly contemporary with the rise of the Gravettian culture.

Gravettian - H (mtDNA) 25,000 years ago in Europe.

Among all these clades, the subhaplogroups H1 and H3 have been subject to a more detailed study and would be associated to the Magdalenian expansion from SW Europe c. 13,000 years ago:

By 13,000 years ago, the Magdalenian people (probable descendants of the Gravettian) have become H1 and H3 lines...

H1 encompasses an important fraction of Western European mtDNA, reaching its local peak among contemporary Basques (27.8%) and appearing at a high frequency among other Iberians, North Africans and Sardinians. It frequency is above 10% in many other parts of Europe (France, British Isles, Alps, large portions of Eastern Europe), and above 5% in nearly all the continent.[1] Its subclade H1b is most common in eastern Europe and NW Siberia.[9] So far, the highest frequency of H1 - 61%- has been found among the Tuareg of the Fezzan region in Libya

H3

H3 represents a smaller fraction of European genome than H1 but has a somewhat similar distribution with peak among Basques (13.9%), Galicians (8.3%) and Sardinians (8.5%). Its frequency decreases towards the northeast of the continent, though.[1] Studies have suggested haplogroup H3 is highly protective against AIDS progression.

H2, H6 and H8

These haplogroups are somewhat common in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus.[3] They may be the most common H subclades among Central Asians and have also been found in West Asia.[9] H2a5 has been found only in Basque Country, Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(mtDNA)

The Gravettian toolmaking culture was a specific archaeological industry of the European Upper Palaeolithic era prevalent before the last glacial epoch. It is named after the type site of La Gravette in the Dordogne region of France where its characteristic tools were first found and studied. The earliest signs of the culture date to 32,000 ya in the Crimean mountains. It lasted until 22,000 years ago. Where found, it succeeded the artifacts datable to the Aurignacian culture.

The diagnostic characteristic artifacts of the industry are small pointed restruck blade with a blunt but straight back, a carving tool known as a Noailles burin.

Artistic achievements of the Gravettian cultural stage include the hundreds of Venus figurines, which are widely distributed in Europe. The predecessor culture was linked to similar figurines and carvings.

Gravettian culture is a phase (c.28,000–23,000 ya) of the European Upper Paleolithic that is characterized by a stone-tool industry with small pointed blades used for big-game hunting (bison, horse, reindeer and mammoth). People in the Gravettian period also used nets to hunt small game. For more information on hunting see Animal Usage in the Gravettian. It is divided into two regional groups: the western Gravettian, mostly known from cave sites in France, and the eastern Gravettian, with open sites of specialized mammoth hunters on the plains of central Europe and Russia. The earliest evidence of Gravettian culture comes from the Buran-Kaya caves in the Crimean Mountains (southern Ukraine), dating to 32,000 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian

This to me, points toward a H line for early Basques coming into Europe with the Gravettian Culture 25,000 years ago. They have Venus figurines and burin tools for boring. The Tauregs(H1) may be the Libyans of ancient Greek myth.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Magdalenian sites also contain extensive evidence for the hunting of red deer, horse and other large mammals present in Europe towards the end of the last ice age. The culture was geographically widespread, and later Magdalenian sites have been found from Portugal in the west to Poland in the east.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalenian

Next was the Azilian.

The Azilian is a name given by archaeologists to an industry of the Epipaleolithic in northern Spain and southern France.

It probably dates to the period of the Allerød Oscillation around 10,000 years ago (uncalibrated) and followed the Magdalenian culture. Archaeologists think the Azilian represents the tail end of the Magdalenian as the warming climate brought about changes in human behaviour in the area. The effects of melting ice sheets would have diminished the food supply and probably impoverished the previously well-fed Magdalenian manufacturers. As a result, Azilian tools and art were cruder and less expansive than their Ice Age predecessors - or simply different.

Diagnostic artifacts from the culture include Azilian points (microliths with rounded retouched backs), crude flat bone harpoons and pebbles with abstract decoration. The latter were first found in the River Arize at the type-site for the culture, Le Mas-d'Azil in the French Pyrenees.[1] 145 are known from the Swiss site of Birsmatten-Eremitage. Compared with the late Magdelanian, the number of microliths increases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azilian

Here's an article talking about the H1 diffusion into Libya:

The Tuareg of the Fezzan region (Libya) are characterized by an extremely high frequency (61%) of haplogroup H1, a mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup that is common in all Western European populations. To define how and when H1 spread from Europe to North Africa up to the Central Sahara, in Fezzan, we investigated the complete mitochondrial genomes of eleven Libyan Tuareg belonging to H1. Coalescence time estimates suggest an arrival of the European H1 mtDNAs at about 8,000–9,000 years ago, while phylogenetic analyses reveal three novel H1 branches, termed H1v, H1w and H1x, which appear to be specific for North African populations, but whose frequencies can be extremely different even in relatively close Tuareg villages. Overall, these findings support the scenario of an arrival of haplogroup H1 in North Africa from Iberia at the beginning of the Holocene, as a consequence of the improvement in climate conditions after the Younger Dryas cold snap, followed by in situ formation of local H1 sub-haplogroups. This process of autochthonous differentiation continues in the Libyan Tuareg who, probably due to isolation and recent founder events, are characterized by village-specific maternal mtDNA lineages.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0013378

Around 7000-8000BC H1 travels into North Africa from Europe.

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